Certification for roofing

[maxa05]

Hi there all. Just a quick question in regards to a small extension i'm building. Extension has a hip truss roofing system, all ready installed and signed off on by the building surveyor. It has concrete tiles in keeping with the existing house. These tiles were installed by my carpenter and he's done a good job of it. It was mentioned to me by a builder friend that this tiling may need a certificate in order to pass final inspection. I was so sure I investigated this and found nothing to suggest it needed a certifcate. Can anyone clear this up for me thanks. I'm in Melbourne

[ringtail]

I guess it depends on the what the chippies licence covers down there. Up here, I can install metal roofing but not tiles. However, I can do $3300 worth of work of another trade so if the tiling came in at under that I could issue a form 16 for the aspect of that work. Check the licence conditions of the chippie - should be able to see that online through whoever issues the licence down there

[Eastwing]

I'm sure it's just for metal roofing. In Victoria only a licensed plumber can install metal roofing. Tiles are fine.

It's the Carpenter that can't do anything at all (not even carpentry) in Victoria a Carpenter can't get a building permit. There is not a lot of work you can legally do in Victoria without a building permit, you can't even legally work for an owner builder if the total value of works is over $5000. 4 year apprenticeship and your qualified to do nothing. A carpenter can become a domestic builder limited carpenter, not a straight forward process. Ringtail lucky your in QLD

[maxa05]

Thanks for that. Sounds like I might just be ok and thankful that I don't have a metal roof! I'm owner-builder and have had no trouble with the building surveyor yet and when I asked them what certificates they needed for final inspection the roof issue didn't come up so I'm hoping that wasn't an oversight on their part. I'm told by a number of builders in victoria that anyone can replace or reroof but i'm not sure whether that applies to a new roofing structure or not. I tell you I pine for the days in England where just about anything goes and no one seems to care much about whats going on under your own roof. Excuse the pun!

[ringtail]

I'm sure it's just for metal roofing. In Victoria only a licensed plumber can install metal roofing. Tiles are fine.

It's the Carpenter that can't do anything at all (not even carpentry) in Victoria a Carpenter can't get a building permit. There is not a lot of work you can legally do in Victoria without a building permit, you can't even legally work for an owner builder if the total value of works is over $5000. 4 year apprenticeship and your qualified to do nothing. A carpenter can become a domestic builder limited carpenter, not a straight forward process. Ringtail lucky your in QLD

Really ??? God, we may be backwards up here with some things but if what you say is correct thats just moronic. Who does the authority think does the work ? it aint builders.All builders (most) do is coordinate the work and whack a good margin on top. The place to be ? I dont think so.

[Eastwing]

A carpenter in Victoria has to work for a builder, unless the value is under $5000 and no permit is required. I think you can build a 5m3 deck without a permit. Most owner builders in Vic employ carpenters, this is not legal although it's not actively enforced.

[ringtail]

Man, what a joke. Give me natural disaster riddled QLD any day. So what is it that the authorities are hoping to achieve. Get every chippie to attain a builders licence so they can then employ more chippies ? A national review is in order me thinks or a wholesale change to the euro system where you can do whatever you like yourself but you are entirely responsible for everything

[manofaus]

where you can do whatever you like yourself but you are entirely responsible for everything
sorta like an owner builder? (excluding plumbing and electrical)

[ringtail]

sorta like an owner builder? (excluding plumbing and electrical)


I guess so but without the red tape.

[ringtail]

Ok, Ive just had a read through what is involved in becoming a domestic builder limited carpenter (DBL-Carpenter class c ) and its exactly the same as getting a QLD trade licence from the BSA (building services authority). So no big deal. I thought that you (eastwing) meant that a licenced chippie couldn't work for himself - which is ridiculous, but it turns out that its just a different title down there to up here. It makes no reference to co - ordinating other trades with that licence though

[Eastwing]

I just had a look at the QLD requirements and you only need to have finished you apprenticeship. Here is the list of requirements in Victoria http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/resources/documents/DBLCarpenter.pdf In Victoria you also need 6 months of night school (can be less), an interview at the building commission, a letter of eligibility from a home warranty insurance provider, a business plan, cash flow projections, and the list goes on. Insurance is almost impossible unless you own your own home.

Don't get me wrong I think it's good for the consumer but also bad as almost nobody is actually registered as a Domestic builder Limited carpenter. It would be easier to move to QLD get registered and then get recognition of prior learning.

[ringtail]

In Qld and Vic you can work for yourself if the work is valued at less than $ 3300 in QLD and $5000 in VIC without a licence. In QLD you still have to do a business management course, have the relevant financial capacity to support your turnover, 3 years post trade experience or the equivilant of and all the relevant insurances etc... If you estimate your turnover to be more than $ 300 k you have to be audited by the BSA and provide them with all the fiigures etc... Still a bit of a mission but not as bad as VIC. In QLD it used to be $ 1100 but the BSA in their wisdom put the limit upto $ 3300 which id doing a whole lot of people out of work as most small jobs are less than this meaning that anybody, licenced or not, qualified or not can do the work without the BSA knowing about it. Think dodgy handyman type. Big problem up here. Be interesting to hear from someone who has gone through the VIC system to see if it is as bad as it looks on paper or just a lot of words

[woodchip]

sorta like an owner builder? (excluding plumbing and electrical)

from what I understand....add "metal roofing" to plumbing & electrical, for OB in NSW, can anyone confirm that?

cheers

[jatt]

Gee will have to have at my buddies licencing. One is a chippie in Qld and another SA, one of which lists roofing from memory.

QUOTE]Most owner builders in Vic employ carpenters, this is not legal although it's not actively enforced.[/QUOTE] I think (on an unoffical level) that most building inspectors are happy that a carpenter has "helped out" in the process of building. From my own experience and talking to tradies if the inspector feels confident that you are doing things right, then he does his token "put a few more nails in that", ticks the boxes and he is on his way.

[Eastwing]

The building inspector does not care if the frame was built by chipmunks, as long as it's up to standard.

A Carpenter doing work valued at more than $5000 (total not just his bit) is at risk of being fined by the building commission.
My point in all of this is why do a 4 year apprenticeship and be unqualified to do the job you trained to do. You would think after 4 years you would be qualified to do work greater than $5000.

[ringtail]

The qualification stands but the newly qualified can only work under someones elses licence if the work value is $ 5 grand or more. I suspect the regs are in place to protect the public from numpty tradies ( which doesnt work). The more involved the process is the less likely the dodgy ones are to get the requirements needed to operate a legitimate professional business ( in the rule makers eyes). Its the same up here, you have to jump through hoops to get a licence that lets you go out on your own. If someone wants to make it the industry there are sacrifices to make and rules to abide by. Mind you, it is absolutely no gaurantee that having the licence makes you a better tradie or business person and thats evident by the number of complaints that every states' authority receives.