New Picket Fence

[john777]

Hi,
Just some advice sought please on a DIY new front picket fence which I am about to undertake (approx. 1m high x 4.5m long).

1. I have some 2nd hand hardwood posts 100x100mm that I want to use and need to be set into the ground with concrete fill......what is best way to protect / preserve timber which will be below ground .........ie: protect from termites and wood rot??

2. Should I use old and tried method of notching posts to take horizontal rails?.........or use new special fastening plates (one placed each side of rail) that are available from fencing suppliers

THANKS

[stevoh741]

1. Buy some treated posts.
2. Notching is ok except you expose more end grain thus making post suseptable to more rot (painting joints with enamel/tar paint will help reduce. Otherwise fix to back of post with batten screw. Dont waste your $$$ on any fancy brackets.

[john777]

1. Buy some treated posts.
2. Notching is ok except you expose more end grain thus making post suseptable to more rot (painting joints with enamel/tar paint will help reduce. Otherwise fix to back of post with batten screw. Dont waste your $$$ on any fancy brackets.

Thanks....was trying to make use of existing hardwood 1st (as most jobs I do I try and recycle wood I have around the house)........but not sure if treating hardwood timber myself will achieve same as buying treated pine.......if anyone knows of long lasting products that I can use??.....i'd prefer to recycle
thanks

[stevoh741]

CN emulsion for inground. Also treated pine is useless and won't go the distance. Stick with hardwood.

[Bloss]

CN emulsion for inground. Also treated pine is useless and won't go the distance. Stick with hardwood.

That's just a personal bias on the TP stevoh741 - and not supported by the evidence at all. Failure of treated pine is usually because a) the wrong grade has been used eg: H3 in ground instead of H4 or H5, or b) the pine has been cut or drilled etc and the cut edges not re-treated as they should always be. I have been using various types of treated pine in various places (so dry inland, to humid wet coastal etc) for more than 40 years and most of those structures are still in use and still in good condition. But I have seen early failures when a) or b) have been involved.

But . . . if you have access to a good quality hardwood supply (which Queenslanders often take for granted - and DIYers in Sydney for example, could not) then it is a good choice - as is recycled HW.

As stevoh741 said - best to treat at least the end in the ground as per instructions though.

[john777]

That's just a personal bias on the TP stevoh741 - and not supported by the evidence at all. Failure of treated pine is usually because a) the wrong grade has been used eg: H3 in ground instead of H4 or H5, or b) the pine has been cut or drilled etc and the cut edges not re-treated as they should always be. I have been using various types of treated pine in various places (so dry inland, to humid wet coastal etc) for more than 40 years and most of those structures are still in use and still in good condition. But I have seen early failures when a) or b) have been involved.

But . . . if you have access to a good quality hardwood supply (which Queenslanders often take for granted - and DIYers in Sydney for example, could not) then it is a good choice - as is recycled HW.

As stevoh741 said - best to treat at least the end in the ground as per instructions though.


Thanks Guys
There had to be some product out there for hardwood.........I had even thought to contact the local electricity supplier to check on what is used to protect your average hardwood street electricity pole
cheers

[goldie1]

Thanks Guys
There had to be some product out there for hardwood.........I had even thought to contact the local electricity supplier to check on what is used to protect your average hardwood street electricity pole
cheers Think they use creosote not sure if its allowed for housing use

[stevoh741]

That's just a personal bias on the TP stevoh741

Not personal bias, but personal experience. Few years ago I built a fence for a mate (hardwood posts and palings) with a treated pine sleeper for a bottom rail (keep the dogs from getting out). The treated pine sleeper (200x50 H4 treated) was only at a maximum 50mm deep in ground (ie 150mm exposed above ground). Last year (2 yrs since instalation) he wanted to change the configuration of the fence which require pulling down about 3 panels of the prior built fence. All of the TP bottom rails were either so rotted sections didnt exist or you could push your fingers through from one side to the other. There was no evidence of termites, just rot. And all this after ONLY 2 YEARS IN GROUND.

I took a section back to the original supplier who a) didnt believe me and b) said good luck getting any warranty even with reciepts.

So given this outcome I refuse to use TP to this day and only use treated hardwood. BTW, when I removed the TP rails from the fence the hardwood posts were still as good as the day they went in. Also after finding this I have a couple of small TP sleeper retaining walls at my place which I regularly drown in CN oil to try prevent the same outcome. IMHO Treated hardwood only way to go and the only way I go. Unfortunate to those in the southern states :weeping2:

[Bloss]

Think they use creosote not sure if its allowed for housing use

Creosote is not allowed for residential use anywhere - do a forum search for more info.

[Bloss]

Not personal bias, but personal experience. Few years ago I built a fence for a mate (hardwood posts and palings) with a treated pine sleeper for a bottom rail (keep the dogs from getting out). The treated pine sleeper (200x50 H4 treated) was only at a maximum 50mm deep in ground (ie 150mm exposed above ground). Last year (2 yrs since instalation) he wanted to change the configuration of the fence which require pulling down about 3 panels of the prior built fence. All of the TP bottom rails were either so rotted sections didnt exist or you could push your fingers through from one side to the other. There was no evidence of termites, just rot. And all this after ONLY 2 YEARS IN GROUND.

I took a section back to the original supplier who a) didnt believe me and b) said good luck getting any warranty even with reciepts.

So given this outcome I refuse to use TP to this day and only use treated hardwood. BTW, when I removed the TP rails from the fence the hardwood posts were still as good as the day they went in. Also after finding this I have a couple of small TP sleeper retaining walls at my place which I regularly drown in CN oil to try prevent the same outcome. IMHO Treated hardwood only way to go and the only way I go. Unfortunate to those in the southern states :weeping2:

One or two incidents or examples are not good basis for making a decision on anything, but your call if that's how you want to choose. As to TP sleepers - the H4 and H5 standard are for in-ground use, but not for any use where constant water saturation ie: none of H1 to H5 cannot be used in permanently wet environments, including areas that are boggy or areas that are susceptible to long periods of high moisture retention. That is not well understood - and in Qld, coastal or other high rainfall and wet soil areas H6 (which is much dearer and not always available) should be used - or as you say regular treatments applied.

But yes I used to be in the NSW Nth Coast and miss having the quality hardwoods from there or into Qld! And treated HW too is not as common here either.:(

[Black Cat]

Creosote is not allowed for residential use anywhere - do a forum search for more info.

Is that a National thing or limited to certain states? I ask as I have seen engineers recommend it as a lining for airdrains and other such applications. It is still sold here in paint tins (or is it simply a derivative that looks like the real thing??)

[Bloss]

Australia wide - but as i said 'residential use'. It is still allowed in certain commercial and industrial applications, but should not be available for retail sale. Classified as a Category 2 carcinogen. But can be carried by farm supply and industrial supply places. Tassie is just moving into the '70s I believe so you might have few years access yet . . . :wink:

[stevoh741]

Green shed sell some stuff in a yellow tin (cant remeber name) but clearly states creosote alternative on the tin. I'ts a bit tar like - as in black and sticks to anything, but I still prefer to use CN emulsion (in ground) and CN oil (above ground.

[Black Cat]

Bloss, you terrify me ... I was just easing into the 60s ... and you tell me the seventies are here already!! EEEK!

[john777]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what they use on hardwood telegraph / electricity poles? .......ie: what is used to protect wood below ground level?

[Bedford]

It's been Creosote as long as I can remember.