Pipe relining, anyone had it done?

[ScottyC]

Hi all,

I'm very quickly getting over our fixer-upper house. Currently have disputes at fairtrading with two tilers - one who nicked off with a $1000 deposit and a second who turned up but left his labourer to botch the job. Then found crumbling asbestos walls and floors in an upstairs bathroom, the list goes on....

This weeks problem is the sewer. When we bought the house, it would constantly block due to root penetration in the earthnware pipes. I had several plumbers quote upwards of $18k to replace the sewer to the boundary shaft. This was 34m of pipe 600mm deep where it left the house and over 2m at the boundary, under concrete all the way. I couldn't afford this so I took 2 weeks off work and cut the concrete and dug the trench myself, ripped up the old pipes and had a plumber then install the new pipe including replacing the boundary shaft (plumber called it a stack) up to the 90 degree elbow at the bottom.

It's been fine for 4 years but is now blocking again downhill from the boundary shaft where the pipes are still earthenware. I had a plumber clear the blockage and have had the water board out to take a look - they say it is my problem. Unfortunately everything from the boundary shaft to where it joins the main is on a neighbours property. The neighbour is against me excavating the sewer as it would require the removal of two large trees which she's not willing to part with (these are over the sewer). The junction on the main we connect to is the last, so I can't just run a new connection.

Oddly enough, I recieved a leaflet in the mail this week advertising pipe relining. I investigated this with my original sewer problem and the cost was more than any of the other "excavate/replace" quotes I got but the company I got the quote from admitted they had a monopoly on the technology at the time and were "making the most" of being able to do repairs where excavation wasn't an option and were charging accordingly. Ie not postured as a cheaper alternative to excavation. Now it seems there is quite a few companies offering this so maybe this has changed.

Has anybody had it done and have any feedback, good or bad? I'm going to call the mob that sent th leaflet but wanted to educate myself before doing so as I've had a frankly terrible run with tradespeople of late - on firstname basis with the folks at Fairtrading so I've lost faith...

Thanks!

Scott

[wonderplumb]

There are two that we have used in the past. I can't remember the price as I was sub-comtracting at the time but it was something ridiculous, like a few hundred dollars per metre.
What area of Sydney are you in?

[plum]

Firstly, in Melbourne and is the same ruling by all our different water companies, is on a boundary trap area once the pipe leaves the boundary of the property and joins into a neighbours drain, it is referred to a 'Y' branch, and the water company will take responsibility from where it leaves your property, I would get that double checked or maybe Wonderplumb could let us know.

Secondly, quite a few pipe re-lining companies send me their brochures, yet to use them, but they do emphasise that I could make a fairly decent kickback if using them. So I imagine they would be pricey, but employing them directly maybe you could save a few bucks.

[chrisp]

Firstly, in Melbourne and is the same ruling by all our different water companies, is on a boundary trap area once the pipe leaves the boundary of the property and joins into a neighbours drain, it is referred to a 'Y' branch, and the water company will take responsibility from where it leaves your property,

Hey Plum,

Could you clarify this further? Is it the property boundary or the easement boundary? I was under the impression that once the pipe crosses in to the easement that it becomes the water companies responsibility.

[plum]

Depending on where the retic is located, retic being where the property drain runs into, if it is located in an easement on your property, the water company provides a branch piece, normally about one metre with a 27a [an i.o. fitting], after this i.o. it is the customers responsibility.

If the retic is not on your property, this branch piece will extend from the retic into your property and again finishing with an i.o.
and from there it is the customers responsibility.

Scottys situation is different as they have a shared branch, but down here in sunny Melb. his responsibility starts at his building line.

[wonderplumb]

In the Sydney Water jurisdiction, the owner is responsible all the way to where the drainage connects to the wing of the junction on the main. I'm not sure about shared shafts/traps.

[plum]

Thanks W.P. I hate to say it, but I reckon we've got a fairer system down here. :U

[ScottyC]

Thanks guys, sorry for the delayed response, my wife gave birth to our second this weekend so I've been a bit distracted :D. A boy this time so I'll have some help digging.

I'm in northern Sydney. Our property is on a very steep street but the blocks are stepped with concrete block retaining walls on the downhill side. The boundary shaft is in this retaining wall, between the concrete anchor blocks. The shaft is 2.3m from the IO on top to the bottom of the elbow at the bottom. We lowered the IO and added an overflow next to it as the lowest point in the original system was the floor waste in the laundry... awesome.

We are at the top of the line so the only property connecting to the junction in the neighbours yard - the neighbours connection is actually in THEIR neighbours property... The junction has a round manhole cover about 60cm diameter. Sydney Waters website says they are responsible for connections which are more than 2.5m underground http://www.sydneywater.com.au/Plumbing/PDF/ManagementOfSewerChokeClaimPolicy.pdf but due to the stepped nature of the properties and although the IO at the top of my boundary shaft is probably at least 4m higher than the manhole cover next door, at no point is there 2.5m of dirt above the connection.

The mob I got the quote from 4 years ago wanted over $24K for 34m of relining but I think that was a price to get rid of me - the price was over the phone after having given length, diameter and number of junctions and I was told by the rep they are not really competitive with excavation (despite their advertising being primarily focussed on this) I suppose if the pipe was under the house then cost vs. excavation may be more competitive and I suspect that even at the ~$700/metre of the previous quote, this might be the cheaper option considering tree removal, neighbours garden beds with their sanstone retaining walls etc. I'm hoping it will be considerably cheaper than this - distance from bottom of my shaft to the junction is about 6m.
The company that sent the leaflet says they guarantee for 14 years but the waterproofer/tiler I used recently guaranteed their work for 10 years and it didn't make 10 days so I'm a bit hesitant to take a companies word on the reliability of their products/services at the moment. I have left a message to try and get a quote but wanted to see if anyone had done relining in the past and had any feedback good or bad. I've also spoken to Sydney Water who've asked me to get a drainage diagram from the council and they will take a look but my plumber says not to hold my breath as he is of the impression it is the connection to the main junction that must be 2.5m under the ground - at any rate, I've only got 2.3m max at the shaft so doubtful they'll help me.

Thanks again!

Scott

[wonderplumb]

Interesting. I was never aware of the 2.5m rule. In saying this I can only remember doing one connection that was ever deeper than this.
Good luck with it