Waterproofing question?????

[mattski2008]

Hi Bathroom people!!
I have just bought my first home and early on in the inspection I suspected water leaks around the shower. Got the keys and took a jack hammer to the floor. There was some leakage and the membrane was not too flash.. Anyway I have removed all tiles and the mortar bed. I have been doing a bit of research and there seems to be varying information on where the waterproofing should be physically applied. I want to install a wondercap... it says that the waterproofing should go down before the mortar bed..? Another guy has said that the waterproofing should be on the mortar as it has fall...If the waterproofing was on the slab couldn't the mortar bed become wet and hold moisture??? Any info would be great!!!

[heavytrevy]

Best practise is to waterproof on top of mortar bed.

[mattski2008]

Thanks!! So I can't use the Wondercap because the minimum height from the flange to the grate is 28mm. Maybe this one would be better Rock Top - 80MM Rocktop Leak Prevention Waste (http://rocktop.com.au/80MM-Rocktop-Leak-Prevention-Waste) it is lower at 17mm........ 12mm glue then 6mm tile??? Do many people use these?? With a normal waste and waterproofing setup where does the water go when it gets beneath your tiles??

[Oldsaltoz]

Hi Bathroom people!!
I have just bought my first home and early on in the inspection I suspected water leaks around the shower. Got the keys and took a jack hammer to the floor. There was some leakage and the membrane was not too flash.. Anyway I have removed all tiles and the mortar bed. I have been doing a bit of research and there seems to be varying information on where the waterproofing should be physically applied. I want to install a wondercap... it says that the waterproofing should go down before the mortar bed..? Another guy has said that the waterproofing should be on the mortar as it has fall...If the waterproofing was on the slab couldn't the mortar bed become wet and hold moisture??? Any info would be great!!!

I assume this shower is on other than a concrete slab, hence the need for a puddle flange.

The waterproofing can be applied before or after the screed, the reason most are waterproofed before the screed is to avoid the waiting for the screed to dry out, so a matter of time saving.

The moisture that gets into the screed when waterproofed prior to screeding is drained around the insert that hold the waste grate, capillary action also helps.

However, it is most important that the puddle flange is recessed into the floor to ensure proper drainage, it's also a good idea not to use the screws that hold the flange down, they can rust and swell and may damage a cheap waterproofing system.

I have also seen problems with showers that were waterproofed after the screed was added, primarily because the screed mix gave way and cracked taking the waterproofing with it, again is a system of poor waterproofing materials.

99% of new homes are waterproofed before the screed is placed and no problems are evident that practice any detrimental effect or is connected to any failures.

Good luck. :)

[mattski2008]

Thanks Oldsaltoz!!

The shower is on a concrete slab. Time is my friend and I am not in any rush. If you could do either way which way would you go?? I just thought the puddle flange would provide a nice surface to waterproof up to and the weep holes in the cap section would provide nice drainage? What do you consider a good membrane??

[Oldsaltoz]

Thanks Oldsaltoz!!

The shower is on a concrete slab. Time is my friend and I am not in any rush. If you could do either way which way would you go?? I just thought the puddle flange would provide a nice surface to waterproof up to and the weep holes in the cap section would provide nice drainage? What do you consider a good membrane??

If it's ground floor slab we are talking I would probably water before screeding, use a cup grinder to recess the puddle flange and make sure the membrane not only covers the flange but also down inside it so all water can go via the drain, definitely no weep holes above or below screed.

The gap around the waste grate holder (inside the drainage outlet when fitted) will drain the area if used above or below the screed.

As a professional waterproofer myself, my choice of membrane is a little biased, I stopped counting after 2,000 showers and never a failed membrane. see the link below, and get a shower any size and shape you like.

Good luck. :)

[mattski2008]

If it's ground floor slab we are talking I would probably water before screeding, use a cup grinder to recess the puddle flange and make sure the membrane not only covers the flange but also down inside it so all water can go via the drain, definitely no weep holes above or below screed.

The gap around the waste grate holder (inside the drainage outlet when fitted) will drain the area if used above or below the screed.

As a professional waterproofer myself, my choice of membrane is a little biased, I stopped counting after 2,000 showers and never a failed membrane. see the link below, and get a shower any size and shape you like.

Good luck. :)

Thanks Oldsaltoz!!! I think I will do it as you have said!!

Looks like there is no Wet Seal guy on the Gold Coast??

[Oldsaltoz]

Just free call 1800 025 081
They will connect you to the Gold Coast Waterproofer in a second.

Good luck. :)

[mattski2008]

Thanks mate!!. After reading another thread you have been replying on I have decided to go with a waterstop instead of a hob. As i have already stuck my wondercap down on the slab I have to work with the height of 28mm at the waste. I am thinking a 45mm waterstop (if this size is available). My reasoning is that my shower screen will be around 600mm from the waste so I need 10mm of fall... so the top of my tiles will be at about 38mm..( this means the waterstop will be 7mm above tile level..) So at the screen I will have 6mm tile + approx 10mm glue+22mm screed... My question is .. at the waste I start with 28mm.. if I take into account the tile and glue = 16mm I will only have 12mm of screed ... Do you think this is ok????????

[Oldsaltoz]

Thanks mate!!. After reading another thread you have been replying on I have decided to go with a waterstop instead of a hob. As i have already stuck my wondercap down on the slab I have to work with the height of 28mm at the waste. I am thinking a 45mm waterstop (if this size is available). My reasoning is that my shower screen will be around 600mm from the waste so I need 10mm of fall... so the top of my tiles will be at about 38mm..( this means the waterstop will be 7mm above tile level..) So at the screen I will have 6mm tile + approx 10mm glue+22mm screed... My question is .. at the waste I start with 28mm.. if I take into account the tile and glue = 16mm I will only have 12mm of screed ... Do you think this is ok????????

I would install a 50mm x 50mm aluminium mill finish angle, this will add very little to the small step you have and provide you with better drainage (less cleaning).

12mm of screed is asking for problems, even if extra cement was added and you had the best sharo and washed sand. Have a liitle talk to your tile supplier, thay have a mix you can lay at 10mm.

Make sure you have the finish of the tiles below the inner edge of the angle, 5 mm is the standard.

Good luck. :)

[orbitor]

My shower base the tiles were wet bedded (set directly into the screed) so there's no additional thickness added by tile glue. But you have to have the right kind of tile for this to work (the back of it needs to be able to absorb a little water).

[mattski2008]

Am I right in saying a porcelain tile will not be ok for this method as they are not porous??

[orbitor]

Am I right in saying a porcelain tile will not be ok for this method as they are not porous??

Yeah I believe you're right; they're not porous so won't suit that method.

[mattski2008]

So i have lined the walls after a long wait to get villaboard. Apparently there is a shortage on the Gold Coast.. I have had to ditch the idea of the hobless shower as my levels could not work. The door is about 200mm from where the shower screen would be going and the height of the door off the slab is only 30mm. Anyway my next question is how do I secure the bricks I am using for my hob?? Can I just use a polyurethane adhesive or should I use the concrete mortar that I will be covering them with??

[Oldsaltoz]

So i have lined the walls after a long wait to get villaboard. Apparently there is a shortage on the Gold Coast.. I have had to ditch the idea of the hobless shower as my levels could not work. The door is about 200mm from where the shower screen would be going and the height of the door off the slab is only 30mm. Anyway my next question is how do I secure the bricks I am using for my hob?? Can I just use a polyurethane adhesive or should I use the concrete mortar that I will be covering them with??

You will find it much easier to use Hebel hobs rather than bricks, they are available in most tile shops. 600mm long by 100mm high and 50mm wide. Stick them down and fill the gaps with Sikaflex FC11.

Hebel stone is aerated concrete, you cut it with a hand saw and sand it easily.

Good luck. :)

PS male sure you also seal the wall ends and corner joints.

[mattski2008]

Ok.. I have read the info sheet for the Davco K10 Plus. It says that any concrete that has a steel trowel of power float finish it has to be abraded before waterproofing.. What is a standard slab finished with???