Draftsman or Builder first?

[30somethingglam]

Hi, We're first time renovators and looking to complete a number of works (eg conversion of under-house garage into living area plus single storey extension on the side of the house, new kitchen and bathroom). We have some ideas of what we want but are open to ideas and had originally intended to engage a draftsman to draw up plans then find a builder to quote. Now wondering if it's worth getting some high level quotes from builders to see if we're in the right ball park before getting the plans drawn up? e.g. I'm reluctant to spend $5k developing plans for works we can't afford or will the draftsman be able to give us fairly realistic costs to work to? I appreciate it would be difficult for a builder to provide a realistic quote on some high level ideas but I'm only looking for +/- 30% ish.

Many thanks

[shauck]

If it was me, I'd be talking to the builder first. They are, after all, the ones building it and can help make smart decisions to achieve what you want.

[csdaly]

I'm reluctant to spend $5k developing plans for works we can't afford or will the draftsman be able to give us fairly realistic costs to work to?

How did you go with this dilemma? I'm facing the same issues.

[davegol]

We had the same dilemma.

I'd actually drawn up the basics of what we wanted, so the builders were able to give me a verbal quote (+/-30%) on that. The key being 'verbal'. They won't (nor would I expect them to) commit to anything based on my chicken-scratchings. We then got an architect who turned them into real sketches and made a few changes to our original plans (ie: for lighting, access, flow, etc). btw: an architect will do this (inject ideas), a draftsman will most likely just draft up what you ask them to.

I'd start with the architect/draftsman and see if you can get them to draw up some very rough (ie: no straight lines) diagrams which will help the builders give you a ballpark quote.

They may charge an hourly fee for this first consultation (though usually not), but honestly most of the work should be done on the back of an envelope whilst sitting in your loungeroom for that initial meeting (1-2 hrs max). You might suggest that if you were to go with them, they could make this first consultation free of charge.. something like that.

Once you have a shortlist of builders based on the rough quote, and you're happy to do the work, then you get the architect to make 'working drawings' .. these will have all the measurements, engineering notations, etc. and will be enough for the builder to produce a final quote, get council approval, and actually build from.

good luck!

[csdaly]

I'd start with the architect/draftsman and see if you can get them to draw up some very rough (ie: no straight lines) diagrams which will help the builders give you a ballpark quote.

Many thanks, very helpful.

[Master of none]

We are nearlly finished our small/large renovation and if I can stress anything here it would be to talk to the builder first. Get some real world advise as to wether or not your plans are actually viable. I went through a draftsman first and while he had some great ideas it didn't work in the real world and it has cost me thousands of dollars and a lot of wasted time. If I had my time again I would find a builder and then ask him which drafstman he recommends.

[shauck]

If it was me, I'd be talking to the builder first. They are, after all, the ones building it and can help make smart decisions to achieve what you want.


We are nearlly finished our small/large renovation and if I can stress anything here it would be to talk to the builder first. Get some real world advise as to wether or not your plans are actually viable. I went through a draftsman first and while he had some great ideas it didn't work in the real world and it has cost me thousands of dollars and a lot of wasted time. If I had my time again I would find a builder and then ask him which drafstman he recommends.

That's exactly why I made the above statement. I know it seems backward but builders can see through all the pitfalls and will have smart ideas to work around potential problems.

[shannon_t]

Hi,

I am a draftsman and (although I'm sure i am biased) would suggest speaking with the draftsman first.

I understand the concerns raised above regarding what is built in the 'real world.' Designing for what can practically be built is something a good draftsman should always do and is obviously a sign of a bad one.

I do some basic estimating myself based on meter squared prices and adding extra for design features, wet areas etc. combined with experience of similar contact prices and have not had any major surprises.

When the budget is extremely tight the services of an estimator can be utilized or a builder can give a rough price based on sketch design drawings, before the project has gone too far.

There is always the concern of a builders trick when everything is easy and under priced when giving estimates and there is a different story when contracts need to be signed.

[shauck]

Hi,

I am a draftsman and (although I'm sure i am biased) would suggest speaking with the draftsman first.

I understand the concerns raised above regarding what is built in the 'real world.' Designing for what can practically be built is something a good draftsman should always do and is obviously a sign of a bad one. It's because of the bad ones that running your ideas past a builder first, can be a smart thing to do.

I do some basic estimating myself based on meter squared prices and adding extra for design features, wet areas etc. combined with experience of similar contact prices and have not had any major surprises. It's not just material prices that can cause the problem. Design without practical experience can be the cause. It's not just my personal experience that makes me say this but even in other trades it happens. As an example, my dad worked with building aircraft parts for his entire working life. He held the most senior position and had a lot of responsibility. He often spoke about being at odds with engineers/those that designed, regarding the practicality and realities of making the product.

When the budget is extremely tight the services of an estimator can be utilized or a builder can give a rough price based on sketch design drawings, before the project has gone too far.

There is always the concern of a builders trick when everything is easy and under priced when giving estimates and there is a different story when contracts need to be signed.

I'm not a builder so I don't do set contracts or quotes. Personally, I don't estimate the way you describe. I take a good look at the job and over-estimate my time. I then explain that to the potential customer so they don't get a nasty surprise at the end but rather the worst case scenario and then at the end of the job, we are both happy as I am paid for my time and they get the job done costing less than they anticipated. That's just me.

[Lexi01]

My experience...

We're going though this at the moment...and if you're looking to save a little money (and most people who talk about drafties are...) - find a builder willing to engage with you first and talk about cost saving solutions...theyre the ones building it and can often suggest ways of doing things that will be quicker (cheaper).

We went down this path and I spoke to a builder who just did a mates reno (ours is a large extension)...he was great - but then we started trying to find a draftsman...gee wiz...what a drama. I spoke to 4 and had zero confidence in all 4. They were complete flogs.

We eventually went with an architect friend of ours who was about twice the price of a draftie but is also offering advice, guidance, design ideas, costs saving ideas, etc that a draftie won't.

Think seriously about this first step.