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JB1
6th Aug 2012, 09:24 PM
Hi,

I'm looking at my engineering plans and I don't see any steel lintels over the windows.

It specifies 190x35 F17 hardwood timber lintels over the windows. See below.

http://img.tapatalk.com/9587932d-98b0-5bd9.jpg

Is this common? I'm just wondering how the bricks don't fall down.

Or do you still need to install a simple small lintel?


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intertd6
6th Aug 2012, 10:15 PM
normally you don't need them for the external skin of brick veneer because with 2400mm ceiling & a window head height of 2100, the eaves sheeting rests on the window frames & is supported by the eaves sprockets.
regards inter

Bloss
6th Aug 2012, 10:33 PM
In other words there are no bricks above the windows . . .

JB1
7th Aug 2012, 01:21 AM
Ok thank you very much for your explanation.

I better go and order some lintels then as there are bricks above the windows.

http://img.tapatalk.com/95879303-d255-acca.jpg

One last question- how do the brickies install the steel lintels for the garage roller door.

Do they have a mini crane or similar or do I as an owner builder have to supply a crane for them?



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PeteV
7th Aug 2012, 04:30 PM
Ok thank you very much for your explanation.

I better go and order some lintels then as there are bricks above the windows.

http://img.tapatalk.com/95879303-d255-acca.jpg

One last question- how do the brickies install the steel lintels for the garage roller door.

Do they have a mini crane or similar or do I as an owner builder have to supply a crane for them?



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With regards to your lintels. they will have to be a minimum of 150mm end bearing. this means that what ever your window opening size is, add 300mm.

with regards to the garage lintel, technically, you should have a crane do it, but, you'll find that a couple of slabs often goes a long way!!

hope this helps!

JB1
7th Aug 2012, 06:20 PM
Thanks Pete

I spoke to the company that manufactured my steel beam, I will get them to make my lintels for me and yes, they also said 150mm each side.

Hopefully a couple of slabs will do it, but bloody hell, I won't blame the brickie if he says no, it's a heavy bastard.

PeteV
7th Aug 2012, 06:23 PM
Thanks Pete

I spoke to the company that manufactured my steel beam, I will get them to make my lintels for me and yes, they also said 150mm each side.

Hopefully a couple of slabs will do it, but bloody hell, I won't blame the brickie if he says no, it's a heavy bastard.

bugger getting small lintels made up! just buy them off the shelf from bunnings or the like. heaps cheaper!

hope this helps!

JB1
7th Aug 2012, 08:56 PM
Pete, it helps heaps, thank you.

Hopefully they are not too heavy so I can put it in my Car.


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shauck
8th Aug 2012, 08:08 AM
Pete, it helps heaps, thank you.

Hopefully they are not too heavy so I can put it in my Car.


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Their delivery fee isn't so much.

JB1
17th Aug 2012, 10:55 AM
I ended up ordering galvanized lintels from Mitre10.

Hopefully I didn't pay too much, but delivery was 'free' as I ordered GP cement/lime/sand from them also.

Had a small victory, as they don't stock 900mm lintels so I quoted me a 1200mm one. As I had to make a cut anyway, I ordered a 2100mm lintel and will cut it into 900mm and 1200mm, saving me buying a separate 1200mm and $20

Thank you everyone.


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intertd6
20th Aug 2012, 12:54 AM
A flat bar is used for narrow openings, by cutting the lintel you now have a steel end exposed which will have a higher chance of corrosion than the rest of the bar no matter what you paint it with, it will depend on the exposure to corrosive elements as to whether it may be good for its service life.
regards inter

JB1
21st Aug 2012, 08:30 AM
Well brickies are here this morning.

Hopefully corrosion of the cut lintels won't be an issue.


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PeteV
21st Aug 2012, 08:43 AM
@inter
as a rule of thumb, flat bars shouldn't be used for any openings bigger than 300mm.

also, a quick spray of cold gal should sort the exposed end of the lintel when you take into consideration that the end will either be embedded in mortar, or inside the cavity. Admittedly, it's not ideal, but should be suffice for most situations.

hope this helps!

JB1
22nd Aug 2012, 11:36 AM
With regards to your lintels. they will have to be a minimum of 150mm end bearing. this means that what ever your window opening size is, add 300mm.

with regards to the garage lintel, technically, you should have a crane do it, but, you'll find that a couple of slabs often goes a long way!!

hope this helps!

The brickies started yesterday and I forgot to ask them how they were planning to lift up the 6m garage lintel, or if they wanted a crane... got home yesterday and it was done! lucky there was 4 of them on my job.

I thought about what you said. I'm happy to buy them a slab each which is much cheaper than crane hirer, plus they seem like good guys. Went to the shops early this morning and the bottle shops can't sell you alcohol until 9am!!! I had to go to work so went into the house and gave one of them a bottle of Vodka I had. Will give them each a slab next week next time I see them.

Now what is it about brickies, why don't they ever finish a job in one go? Mine is only a small project, so they will complete the garage today, leave and start/complete another job and then come back next week to complete my job? It will only take them 2-3 days to finish off the rest of my house with 4 people..

Nevermind, I'm not in a rush, but it takes them a few hours to pack and set up their equipment at each job.

Not that I'm complaining, but it's interesting that while nearly everything has gone up in price, brickie labour rates are cheaper today than what they were 12 years ago!!!

No wonder it's hard to find a decent brickie. Hard work and lower pay than say sparkies or plumbers.

intertd6
22nd Aug 2012, 11:40 PM
@inter
as a rule of thumb, flat bars shouldn't be used for any openings bigger than 300mm.

!
That is correct in the school of overbuilding, but not according to the galintel specs which say flat bar can span up to 1000mm
regards inter

barney118
23rd Aug 2012, 02:29 AM
@inter
as a rule of thumb, flat bars shouldn't be used for any openings bigger than 300mm.

also, a quick spray of cold gal should sort the exposed end of the lintel when you take into consideration that the end will either be embedded in mortar, or inside the cavity. Admittedly, it's not ideal, but should be suffice for most situations.

hope this helps!

I don't think cold gal is worth it's money, you can scrape it off with your finger. I would use a steel primer paint. I painted a couple of I beams with the red stuff, it is great.


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intertd6
24th Aug 2012, 11:45 PM
the interesting thing about cold gal paint repairs to hot dipped gal steel, is when the builder stuffs up & suggests cold gal to repair it the engineer will reject that outright & will only have a full envelope of hot dipped gal coating, but if the engineer stuffs up a design in the same situation & modifications have to be made, cold gal paint always seems to be good enough.
regards inter

Bloss
25th Aug 2012, 02:19 PM
the interesting thing about cold gal paint repairs to hot dipped gal steel, is when the builder stuffs up & suggests cold gal to repair it the engineer will reject that outright & will only have a full envelope of hot dipped gal coating, but if the engineer stuffs up a design in the same situation & modifications have to be made, cold gal paint always seems to be good enough.
Regards inter

Surely not . . . :U

ringtail
25th Aug 2012, 07:22 PM
So true.

JB1
6th Sep 2012, 12:34 PM
Bit of an update,

I only ended up using a couple of the lintels and will return most of them.

The windows are so close to the eaves the brickies said it wasn't worth installing them as they need to run 3 courses of bricks above it for no real purpose.

Hope they are right.

Here's the finished brickwork. Boral Victorian Blue with white mortar.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1204/img1237q.jpg

Now the brickwork is finished.

Can someone please recommend a brick cleaner in Melbourne.

What's the going rate for brick cleaning with white mortar?

Also what is a good brand/type of silicone fill in articulated joints in the brickworks?

PeteV
6th Sep 2012, 12:41 PM
sounds to me like your brickies might have been a bit lazy... in my opinion, there's nothing worse than infills above windows!
post a photo of your windows with no lintel.

hope this helps!

JB1
6th Sep 2012, 02:08 PM
doh, dont tell me that..

Will post a photo tomorrow

JB1
7th Sep 2012, 11:16 AM
here you go

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/07/utaqu3a3.jpg


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PeteV
8th Sep 2012, 01:38 PM
here you go

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/07/utaqu3a3.jpg


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if had of been me, i would have gauged down from the windows so that your lintel sits hard on the top of the window...
that way you don't have an infill panel above the window. lazy bastards!

JB1
8th Sep 2012, 09:00 PM
Hmmm is it worth asking them to come back to install the lintels?

Otherwise I may do it myself, I'll ask my carpenter to see if it will look ok with the lintels

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autogenous
8th Sep 2012, 09:23 PM
It looks like the windows are not sitting at coursing?

PeteV
9th Sep 2012, 04:51 PM
Hmmm is it worth asking them to come back to install the lintels?

Otherwise I may do it myself, I'll ask my carpenter to see if it will look ok with the lintels

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it's gonna be a little hard to install lintels now that the gauge hasn't been set to the windows...

hope this helps!

intertd6
9th Sep 2012, 10:45 PM
it can be done with a soldier course for the length of the lintel which would have to be on a cut brick bed, would fragile & be prone to cracking because there is not much bond holding it together

JB1
12th Sep 2012, 12:50 AM
Thanks for all the info,

Carpenter wasn't very happy as the reason they didn't lay the course of the bricks it to suit the windows.

Oh well, guess it's too late for this house and I'll use infills.

Next time I'll insist on getting it right.

First time owner builder... my second house will be better lol


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intertd6
12th Sep 2012, 10:00 PM
Thanks for all the info,

Carpenter wasn't very happy as the reason they didn't lay the course of the bricks it to suit the windows.

Oh well, guess it's too late for this house and I'll use infills.

Next time I'll insist on getting it right.

First time owner builder... my second house will be better lol


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I don't think it was the brickies fault as they have worked to the fascia eave height, it probably goes back to the frame design & the builder no specifing the eaves drop off height to match the top of the windows. Or the carpenter didn't lift the widows high enough in the openings to match the eaves drop off ( which I doubt because there is normally not enough clearance to lift them 1 1/2 courses ).
regards inter
regards inter

PeteV
13th Sep 2012, 07:34 AM
I don't think it was the brickies fault as they have worked to the fascia eave height, it probably goes back to the frame design & the builder no specifing the eaves drop off height to match the top of the windows. Or the carpenter didn't lift the widows high enough in the openings to match the eaves drop off ( which I doubt because there is normally not enough clearance to lift them 1 1/2 courses ).
regards inter
regards inter

in my experience, bricklayers should always work from the windows. if you have to put splits up under the facia/eaves, so be it. i still believe the bricklayers got a bit lazy here in an attempt to avoid cutting bricks.

hope this helps!

intertd6
13th Sep 2012, 11:09 PM
in my experience, bricklayers should always work from the windows. if you have to put splits up under the facia/eaves, so be it. i still believe the bricklayers got a bit lazy here in an attempt to avoid cutting bricks.

hope this helps!
Good economical bricklayers & builders gauge brickwork courses to the levels that require the least amount of cutting, to cut the top course around a house will add a considerable amount to the masonry costs as bricklayers don't cut them for nothing, just common sense really.
regards inter

PeteV
14th Sep 2012, 08:19 AM
Good economical bricklayers & builders gauge brickwork courses to the levels that require the least amount of cutting, to cut the top course around a house will add a considerable amount to the masonry costs as bricklayers don't cut them for nothing, just common sense really.
regards inter

that's a crappy attitude. good tradesmen chase the result that is most aesthetically pleasing, and gives you the correct result.
the bricklayer in this instance would have known straight away that the windows weren't going to work. at this point he should have informed the builder that he basically had three options:
1 - gauge brickwork straight off the rebate, and delete your lintels, meaning you will end up with crappy infills above your windows.
2 - creep gauge to work to the top of the windows. from the photos above i'm estimating approx 30mm or less than 1.5mm per course.
3 - adjust the windows in height so that it works exactly 86mm gauge.

to me option 2 would have been simple and have zero cost variation as there appears to be plenty of room in the eaves to run an extra 2 courses if required. option 1 is just crap!

remind me not to get you to work on my house!

JB1
14th Sep 2012, 12:06 PM
PeteV,

seems like I should have got you to do the job, but I would doubt you'd like the 3 hour return drive everyday! lol

It seems my brickie did an ok job overall, with the exception of the lintels... My cousin builder has always said it's hard to find a good brickie... they seem to charge less than other trades and maybe that reflects the quality of the work.

Anyway, next time I'll be more vigilant and get the carpenter to speak to them. Live and learn.

End of the day, I'm owner building so the buck stops with me... at least the windows without the lintels are at the rear so I won't notice it everyday.

intertd6
14th Sep 2012, 11:01 PM
that's a crappy attitude.
remind me not to get you to work on my house!
Your wound up a bit too tight coming back with stuff like that, you only have to state you opinions & back them up with proven industry standard practice. No need to be a DH
regards inter

watson
14th Sep 2012, 11:18 PM
Please Just agree to disagree on your opinions.
After all, its the OP's house.