Opinions sought on roof carpentry before signing PCI

[cray-]

We've recently gone through PCI for our new home in Perth with an independant inspector. We had no previous inspections done, so he could only check so much, but one of our biggest concerns was the code violations in the roof carpentry. His report was submitted and a month passed, our site supervisor claimed the roof work had been rectified, however when we did a follow up inspection we found nothing had been done at all.

The independant inspector gave his advice but I'm now seeking more opinions on the quality of the work and how far I should push it with the builder. As is often the case, the build has gone on longer that we would have liked and we're itching to get in and continue with the finishing. However I'm well aware that holding back our final payment is the only thing we can hold over the builder at this point.

Our main concern is this: "fan struts & cleats not in accordance with AS1684 section 7.2.15.3 & fig 7.12." Since the two struts don't actually line up, they haven't used a brace to join them and haven't secured said brace with the correctly specified bolts or screws. The braces go back to the another strut and because of all the wonky angles, nothing sits flush and there seems to be more exposed nail than not, though I don't know how long the nails are.

Is this level of workmanship acceptable? The roof is only colorbond and my inspector said it was otherwise quite solid, lots of timber used, tie-downs in place etc. Obviously the codes are there for a reason, I just don't know how hard I should be pushing them about this. Thanks in adance.

[The Roofer]

Is this level of workmanship acceptable?

NO! (Don't pay)

Also where's the roof insulation blanket or vapour barrier?? It a metal roof!

[ringtail]

Agree.

[cray-]

Thankyou for your responses gentlemen, I just want to be prepared and a bit more knowledgeable when I take this up with the General Manager.


Also where's the roof insulation blanket or vapour barrier?? It a metal roof!

Yes, ColorBond sheet roof. Independent inspector didn't say anything about blanket/barrier and I've never heard it mentioned before. I can only assume it's not a WA requirement.

I've attached Figure 7.12 from a PowerPoint file I found online. It's 200 pages/slides, I'm assuming it's a simplified version of AS1684. I haven't managed to find a PDF of the actual standards.

Am I correct in my understanding that the two struts should meet on the top plate in order for the loads to be working against each other and deflect downwards toward the wall? Or can these struts be done in singles? Since they're not on the same plane in my photo, they're effectively two separate struts and they have used single struts like this in a few other areas.

When done in pairs, they are required to be braced and fixed with bolts or specific screws, not nails. Is there any reason this wouldn't be the case if they're done in a singular fashion?

[The Roofer]

Only from what I can see,

1. No 90x35 spreader bolted to two fan strut arms (those other two 90x35 are useless)
2. The rafters are more than 300mm apart above the strut
3. You'd have to check the stiffener below the apex at ceiling level and also ensure there is a chock.
4. I'm sure WA has this in the insulation code for metal roofs - checking now - will get back to you. (at least a vapour barrier)
5. The two arms of the strut also have to comply to table 5 of the code (maybe 90x45 eg)

I'd get someone to have a look at this - it just not up to standard for a new house. Maybe some of the Renovateforum builders could help more.

[The Roofer]

After thought

I'd get those 5 or so other single struts (in the photos) looked at also - the regulations normally only allow verticle download to a supporting wall (That's why they invented Fan Struts to offset the load most likely)! You must have a lot of walls under the ceiling.

Bring in an independent builder or expert in truss design - try some of the truss guys.


BUT DON'T PAY until this is sorted by someone else.

[jiggy]

Really really bad, I am assuming and hoping that someone else actually built the main roof.Would love to see photos of the base of those struts !

[cray-]

Once again thankyou, I really value all of your input.

I do not want to upload a floorplan as it would only help link this post to myself and the property for anyone who happened to be watching. I have read the rules and am not silly enough to name names.

However I can assure you there are a lot of brick walls under all these struts. The house is single story on a 10m wide block so it's basically a hallway running down the middle with rooms off each side. Double brick shell with fast brick internal walls, as is the norm in WA. It has been constructed by a reasonably well known spec house builder, although where they are sourcing their trades I do not know.

I have attached a few more pictures. The only one of the base of the struts isn't very useful as I didn't remove the insulation before taking the shot.

[ringtail]

Of course, all these problems would have been avoided if the builder used trusses. Who the hell stick builds a roof on a spec home these days ?

[cray-]

Of course, all these problems would have been avoided if the builder used trusses. Who the hell stick builds a roof on a spec home these days ?
I call them a spec builder, but it was a one-off design. Not sure if that makes any difference.

[ringtail]

No difference at all. Trusses just make so much sense for standard type roof layouts. Truss a big house with lots of hips and valleys in a day easy. Give the plans to the truss guys and wait for the truck to turn up. Lift them up, fix off, strap, grip, fascia, gutter, roof blanket, tin - done.

[The Roofer]

Hi Cray

To finalise this - I would definitely bring in someone external (maybe LIC Builder) to check it out. It may well be that it will last 100 years - or maybe not - just for your own piece of mind?

One more question - why have they used different types of timber - some look like CCA landscape grade colour and other look like normal LOSP treated pine? Are all the timbers stamped with MGP12 etc - whatever the roof framing plans stipulate?

[cray-]

One more question - why have they used different types of timber - some look like CCA landscape grade colour and other look like normal LOSP treated pine? Are all the timbers stamped with MGP12 etc - whatever the roof framing plans stipulate?
Roof framing plans? Oh you jest... If they actually designed a plan for this roof, I've certainly never seen it. As far as the grading goes, I can't comment, I don't know the differences or the requirements in WA. My inspector didn't mention anything in this regard. All I could possibly do is climb back up there and detail the various stamps but it won't be until we have another inspection.

I have a vague recollection of talking to someone else who recently built in WA and something about the green termite treatment (is that what it is?) being an extra cost which they didn't spring for. But I may just be making stuff up at this point.

What I have done is to contact the GM with a bit of a timeline, the inspector's reports and some photos of the work. We won't be authorising the final payment until we're satisfied. I figured the company deserves an opportunity to make things right, if indeed it was the site super or the trades that are to blame. We don't want to escalate things any further at this point, we can't afford the cost or the time. I will consider getting a roofing specialist to inspect once they tell me the work has been rectified. If anyone can suggest such a person in Perth, that would be grand.

Once again, thank you for your advice.

[The Roofer]

Sorry Cray

Can't help you with this recommendation?

Maybe a chat to the GM on a one to one basis with an inspection - and also ask for an inspection of his own roof frame (go with him) where he lives.
"SAME - SAME - Cause if it's not good enough for him - it's not good enough for you"

Also contact the administrators of this forum - (grumpy, but helpful, intelligent, smart, humerous, sarcastic, perdantic, smooth etc from what I've seen so far) and ask for names of Perth Builders (a roofing specialist would not know about these trusses). They may suggest posting a new thread -
"Building roof frame inspector required PERTH area?"