77931
Australia's largest renovations forum

Emission Trading

Page 221 of 230 FirstFirst ... 121 171 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 LastLast
Results 11,001 to 11,050 of 11489
  1. #11001
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Since you ask, think about it. Who threw the first punch? Who drew blood? Certainly not the skeptics. The millions who like me reacted to being pushed around and robbed by political interest and pretences of altruism and accused of selfishness by ignorant unemployed professional activist who have nothing to lose, are REACTING to a poisonous religion that has our asset and our income and our freedom in their sights.
    As simple as that. Lets say we are like partisans fighting the aliens' invasion.
    Oh the humanity. You are just so hard done by.

    My nose bleeds for you...
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  2. #11002
    Gone Feral - 1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Well you defiantly haven't left us hanging proving the ridiculousness of your pursuit in trying to manipulate someone else's statement
    Oh yes, I am defiantly asking for clarity, and I am not manipulating anyone's statement!

    How dare I ask for clarity.

    There is no Planet B

    (within a lifetime's travel at the speed of light)


  3. #11003
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Oh yes, I am defiantly asking for clarity, and I am not manipulating anyone's statement!

    How dare I ask for clarity.
    It takes a special type of manipulator to produce a flow chart for their preferred viewpoint. Ive never seen that before & they way it failed to produce the desired outcome I doubt anyone with a modicum of intelligence will copy it anytime soon.
    regards inter

  4. #11004
    Gone Feral - 1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    It takes a special type of manipulator to produce a flow chart for their preferred viewpoint.
    A lot of people think I'm special However, please correct the rest of your story, the chart is a graphical representation of a simple question that was not answered. It has nothing to do with my viewpoint but everything to do with your own. If you don't want to share the answer, that's fine, it tells us something anyway.

    I've already posted a chart of my current viewpoint:


    There is no Planet B

    (within a lifetime's travel at the speed of light)


  5. #11005
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    A lot of people think I'm special However, please correct the rest of your story, the chart is a graphical representation of a simple question that was not answered. It has nothing to do with my viewpoint but everything to do with your own. If you don't want to share the answer, that's fine, it tells us something anyway.

    I've already posted a chart of my current viewpoint:



    Im sure I've seen that somewhere before! ( maybe 5 times ) why it has turned up again is anybodies guess? especially when I don't dispute man made global warming!! the lights appear to be on, but its fairly obvious nobody is at home!
    at least the flow chart has been given a rest, but going on past records it will be regurgitated several times more for no apparent rhyme or reason.
    regards inter

  6. #11006
    Gone Feral - 1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    you forgot the other species of beings you seem to be associated with.
    No I did not, but you seem to have forgotten that those other species that occupy this planet are not capable of defending themselves against the impacts of our activities.

    Well, perhaps the bacteria and virii will eventually have their own way at our expense

    There is no Planet B

    (within a lifetime's travel at the speed of light)


  7. #11007
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    No I did not, but you seem to have forgotten that those other species that occupy this planet are not capable of defending themselves against the impacts of our activities.

    Well, perhaps the bacteria and virii will eventually have their own way at our expense
    don't worry! all you have to do is learn to understand the past history of the effects of CO2 on the climate and you may be able to save that head of hair if it already hasn't turned grey of fallen out by worrying sick about something thats an impossibility of happening.
    regards inter

  8. #11008
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    you forgot the other species of beings you seem to be associated with.
    regards inter
    So, inter, what, in your opinion, is causing global warming?

  9. #11009
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    So, inter, what, in your opinion, is causing global warming?
    a combination of many factors, some understood, some not, from the globes past history CO2 clearly is not a major contributing factor.

    regards inter

  10. #11010
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    a combination of many factors, some understood, some not, from the globes past history CO2 clearly is not a major contributing factor.
    CO2 probably hasn't played much of a role in the past simply because the carbon cycle has been (more or less) in balance. It's only now that human activity has set the carbon cycle in a giggly wobble by incinerating prehistoric carbon sinks over the last couple of centuries that it has moved up the impacting list with a bullet...along with a few other contemporaries.

    We've been through this before in this thread...back in 2009 I think
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  11. #11011
    quality + reliability - 3k Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    3,730

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    CO2 probably hasn't played much of a role in the past simply because the carbon cycle has been (more or less) in balance. It's only now that human activity has set the carbon cycle in a giggly wobble by incinerating prehistoric carbon sinks over the last couple of centuries that it has moved up the impacting list with a bullet...along with a few other contemporaries.

    We've been through this before in this thread...back in 2009 I think
    Oh I see CO2 is different now. So much, that even though there is far less CO2 now than in the past, the lessor "different" C02 is so much more potent that it will have a dramatic effect on climate now. Even though the far less aggressive but huge quantities of CO2 in the past did not have such an effect on climate.

    Boy glad you cleared that up. I get it now.
    CARBON TAX
    NO


    GREAT PLASTERING TIPS AT

  12. #11012
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Oh I see CO2 is different now. So much, that even though there is far less CO2 now than in the past, the lessor "different" C02 is so much more potent that it will have a dramatic effect on climate now. Even though the far less aggressive but huge quantities of CO2 in the past did not have such an effect on climate.

    Boy glad you cleared that up. I get it now.
    And I too would be a complete dummkopf to believe their story as well! It is truly amazing how deep the propaganda can impregnate through the thinnest encasement surrounding a brain then cloud rational thought.
    regards inter

  13. #11013
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Oh I see CO2 is different now.
    Nope. Just your and Inter's (and many others) conceptual understanding of it. But that's OK...I kind of expected that. No big deal.
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  14. #11014
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Oh I see CO2 is different now. So much, that even though there is far less CO2 now than in the past, the lessor "different" C02 is so much more potent that it will have a dramatic effect on climate now. Even though the far less aggressive but huge quantities of CO2 in the past did not have such an effect on climate.
    Nope. The effect of CO2 is just how physics describes it to be, both in the past and today. Past climatic conditions cannot be explained without the inclusion of the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere just the same as the current radiation imbalance that is causing current warming can not be explained without the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Boy glad you cleared that up. I get it now.
    We're all getting it (global warming) whether you like it (or understand it) or not!

  15. #11015
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Nope. The effect of CO2 is just how physics describes it to be, both in the past and today. Past climatic conditions cannot be explained without the inclusion of the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere just the same as the current radiation imbalance that is causing current warming can not be explained without the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere.



    We're all getting it (global warming) whether you like it (or understand it) or not!
    Unless you can come up with a graph or similar proving your claim, we just don't believe it! just highly fanciful ideas with nothing much else worthy of a second glance.
    regards inter

  16. #11016
    1K Club Member johnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Unless you can come up with a graph or similar proving your claim, we just don't believe it! just highly fanciful ideas with nothing much else worthy of a second glance.
    regards inter
    You should look in the mirror and repeat the above, doesn't it also echo posts from those you may consider your own side? The substance of this thread is people come to it with ideas that have been fixed for a long time. There is little sign of flexibility, plenty who accept or reject on prejudice rather than quality of the source. A little window that demonstrates that some posters (not Inter) sadly reject on the basis of political leanings or religious bigotry. Anyway this previous post has given me a good laugh so thanks for that.
    Let's face it will a graph make any difference to your opinion now?

  17. #11017
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    Dear warmist, alarmist, green, lefty, and assorted cheerleader for the CO2 is baaaad side:

    You should look in the mirror and repeat the above, doesn't it also echo posts from those you may consider your own side? The substance of this thread is people come to it with ideas that have been fixed for a long time. There is little sign of flexibility, plenty who accept or reject on prejudice rather than quality of the source. A little window that demonstrates that some posters (not Inter) sadly reject on the basis of political leanings or religious bigotry. Anyway this previous post has given me a good laugh so thanks for that.

    [taken without permission from John abc]

    Green is immature, amateur, illogical, impractical, fanatical, incompetent and insolvent.
    Yet they want to dictate how you should live your life.
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  18. #11018
    1K Club Member johnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Dear warmist, alarmist, green, lefty, and assorted cheerleader for the CO2 is baaaad side:

    You should look in the mirror and repeat the above, doesn't it also echo posts from those you may consider your own side? The substance of this thread is people come to it with ideas that have been fixed for a long time. There is little sign of flexibility, plenty who accept or reject on prejudice rather than quality of the source. A little window that demonstrates that some posters (not Inter) sadly reject on the basis of political leanings or religious bigotry. Anyway this previous post has given me a good laugh so thanks for that.

    [taken without permission from John abc]

    Green is immature, amateur, illogical, impractical, fanatical, incompetent and insolvent.
    Yet they want to dictate how you should live your life.
    I think that started about the time the ten commandments got written and has been gradually added to over time, although I think you will find there is actually no green manifesto on how to live your life you would really need to live under the Taliban for that type of control and they aint green sport. Actually that type of character assassination of a group is just playing the man without being overly specific.

  19. #11019
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    You should look in the mirror and repeat the above, doesn't it also echo posts from those you may consider your own side? The substance of this thread is people come to it with ideas that have been fixed for a long time. There is little sign of flexibility, plenty who accept or reject on prejudice rather than quality of the source. A little window that demonstrates that some posters (not Inter) sadly reject on the basis of political leanings or religious bigotry. Anyway this previous post has given me a good laugh so thanks for that.
    Let's face it will a graph make any difference to your opinion now?
    all I'm asking for is easily understandable proof from those the questions are directed to, not more propaganda from another source!
    regards inter

  20. #11020
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    all I'm asking for is easily understandable proof from those the questions are directed to, not more propaganda from another source!
    regards inter
    That's very reasonable inter, but I don't believe that the internet can convey communication accurately. Can give me an easily understandable proof that computers, IP protocols and the internet work? That should be no more difficult than your request for proof about the effect of CO2 on the Earth's radiation balance.

  21. #11021
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    That's very reasonable inter, but I don't believe that the internet can convey communication accurately. Can give me an easily understandable proof that computers, IP protocols and the internet work? That should be no more difficult than your request for proof about the effect of CO2 on the Earth's radiation balance.
    And around we go again! Primarily because you just can't provide anything remotely resembling an answer & never will.
    regards inter

  22. #11022
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    And around we go again! Primarily because you just can't provide anything remotely resembling an answer & never will.
    regards inter
    Are you responding to yourself? If the shoe fits... it's likely to be yours LOL.

  23. #11023
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Are you responding to yourself? If the shoe fits... it's likely to be yours LOL.
    i think universally that can be taken that no you haven't got a decent reply as usual, I wish too I was on such a substance that could give me such a overpowering feeling of triumph, when in fact I was defeated.
    I'm not religious but in desperation it has crossed my mind to pray for one fact to be presented!
    regards inter

  24. #11024
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I think that started about the time the ten commandments got written and has been gradually added to over time, although I think you will find there is actually no green manifesto on how to live your life you would really need to live under the Taliban for that type of control and they aint green sport. Actually that type of character assassination of a group is just playing the man without being overly specific.
    Pissing in the wind is usually a bad choice, invariably one ends with wet pants.

    Quotes by H.L. Mencken, famous columnist: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and hence clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." And, "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it."

    We start with Mencken's quotes because they are so well known from the past, but yet still so relevant so many years later. His past insights to those whose lives are addicted to the seeking of power, or control, or fame, or money is still as valid today, as it was 70 years ago. Below are quotes from the powerful; the rich; the religious; the studious; the famous; the fanatics; and, the aspiring, all sharing a common theme of keeping "the populace alarmed" to further their own personal, selfish goals.
    Once you read the below quotes, come back and re-read the previous paragraph. The threat to the world is not man-made global warming or climate change. The threat to the world, as is always the case, is a current group(s) of humans who want to impose their values and desires on others. The people below represent such a group, and they are not saints as individuals; in fact, quite the opposite, unfortunately.

    Quote by Paul Watson, a founder of Greenpeace: "It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true."
    Quote by Jim Sibbison, environmental journalist, former public relations official for the Environmental Protection Agency: "We routinely wrote scare stories...Our press reports were more or less true...We were out to whip the public into a frenzy about the environment."
    Quote by Ottmar Edenhoffer, high level UN-IPCC official: "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy...Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization...One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill....All these dangers are caused by human intervention....and thus the “real enemy, then, is humanity itself....believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
    Quote by emeritus professor Daniel Botkin: "The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe."
    Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: 1990 quote: "More than any other time in history, the 1990s will be a turning point for human civilization."
    Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: 2011 quote: "Humanity is facing a challenge unlike any we’ve ever had to confront. We are in an unprecedented period of change."
    Quote by Robert Stavins, the head of Harvard’s Environmental Economics program: "It’s unlikely that the U.S. is going to take serious action on climate change until there are observable, dramatic events, almost catastrophic in nature, that drive public opinion and drive the political process in that direction."
    Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
    Quote by Stephen Schneider, Stanford Univ., environmentalist: "That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have."
    Quote by Sir John Houghton, pompous lead editor of first three IPCC reports: “If we want a good environmental policy in the future we’ll have to have a disaster.”
    Quote from Monika Kopacz, atmospheric scientist: "It is no secret that a lot of climate-change research is subject to opinion, that climate models sometimes disagree even on the signs of the future changes (e.g. drier vs. wetter future climate). The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians’ — and readers’ — attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today’s world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty."
    Quote by Christine Stewart, former Canadian Environment Minister: “No matter if the science is all phoney, there are collateral environmental benefits.... climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
    Quote by Timoth Wirth, U.S./UN functionary, former elected Democrat Senator: “We’ve got to ride the global-warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.”
    Quote by Richard Benedik, former U.S./UN bureaucrat: "A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."
    Quote from the UN's Own "Agenda 21": "Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level."
    Quote by Maurice Strong, a billionaire elitist, primary power behind UN throne, and large CO2 producer: “Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?”
    Quote by Gus Hall, former leader of the Communist Party USA: "Human society cannot basically stop the destruction of the environment under capitalism. Socialism is the only structure that makes it possible."
    Quote by Peter Berle, President of the National Audubon Society: "We reject the idea of private property."
    Quote by Jack Trevors, Editor-in-Chief of Water, Air, & Soil Pollution: "The capitalistic systems of economy follow the one principal rule: the rule of profit making. All else must bow down to this rule…The current USA is an example of a failed capitalistic state in which essential long-term goals such as prevention of climate change and limitation of human population growth are subjugated to the short-term profit motive and the principle of economic growth."
    Quote by Judi Bari, an American environmentalist and labor leader, a feminist, and the principal organizer of Earth First!:"I think if we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of saving the world ecologically,"
    Quote by David Brower, a founder of the Sierra Club: "The goal now is a socialist, redistributionist society, which is nature's proper steward and society's only hope."
    Quote by UN chief Ban Ki-moon: "Now it is the least developed world who are not responsible for this climate change phenomenon that bore the brunt of climate change consequences so it is morally and politically correct that the developed world who made this climate change be responsible by providing financial support and technological support to these people."
    Quote by David Rockefeller, heir to billion dollar fortune: "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis..."
    Quote by Helen Caldicott, an Australian physician and a leading member of the Union of Concerned Scientists: "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process...Capitalism is destroying the earth."

    Quote by Judi Dench, famous UK actress: "The need for a global structure of control in the form of a world environment court is now more urgent than ever before."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income."
    Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global community will inevitably have multiple political consequences. Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must assume some aspects of a world government."
    Quote by Gordon Brown, former British prime minister: "A New World Order is required to deal with the Climate Change crisis."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late."
    Quote by Lester Brown, founder of the Worldwatch Institute, and founder and president of the Earth Policy Institute:"Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance."
    Quote by Dixy Lee Ray, former liberal Democrat governor of State of Washington, U.S.: "The objective, clearly enunciated by the leaders of UNCED, is to bring about a change in the present system of independent nations. The future is to be World Government with central planning by the United Nations. Fear of environmental crises - whether real or not - is expected to lead to – compliance”
    Quote by UN's Commission on Global Governance: "The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation."
    Quote by David Shearman, an IPCC Assessor for 3rd and 4th climate change reports: "Government in the future will be based upon . . . a supreme office of the biosphere. The office will comprise specially trained philosopher/ecologists. These guardians will either rule themselves or advise an authoritarian government of policies based on their ecological training and philosophical sensitivities. These guardians will be specially trained for the task."
    Quote by John Holdren, President Obama's science czar: “A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation...Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being."
    Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: “Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
    Quote by Ban Ki-Moon, UN Secretary General: "A deal must include an equitable global governance structure. All countries must have a voice in how resources are deployed and managed."
    Quote by EU Environment Commissioner Margot Wallstroem: "[Kyoto protocol] is not a simple environmental issue, where you can say scientists are not unanimous. This is about international relations, this is about the economy, about trying to create a level playing field for big businesses throughout the world. You have to understand what is at stake, and that is why it is serious,..."
    Quote by Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General: “In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
    Quote by Jacques Chirac, former French President: “For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument [Kyoto Protocol] of global governance,”..."By acting together, by building this unprecedented instrument, the first component of an authentic global governance, we are working for dialogue and peace.”
    Quote by Earth Charter, an environmental organization: "Radical change from the current trajectory is not an option, but an absolute necessity. Fundamental economic, social and cultural changes that address the root causes of poverty and environmental degradation are required and they are required now."
    Quote by Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, architect of the new Germanic masterplan, the 'Great Transformation': "Either the Earth System would undergo major phase transitions as a result of unchecked human pressure on nature’s capacities and resources or a “Great Transformation” towards global sustainability would be initiated in due course. Neither transitions nor transformations will be manageable without novel forms of global governance and markets..."
    Quote by UN's Commission on Global Governance: "Regionalism must precede globalism. We foresee a seamless system of governance from local communities, individual states, regional unions and up through to the United Nations itself."
    Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth."
    Quote by Barbara Stocking, chief executive of Oxfam in Britain: "Funding from rich countries to help the poor and vulnerable adapt to climate change is not even one percent of what is needed. This glaring injustice must be addressed at Copenhagen in December [2009]."
    Quote by Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth: “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources.”
    Quote by Michael Oppenheimer, major environmentalist: "The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are."
    Quote by Louis Proyect, Columbia University: “The answer to global warming is in the abolition of private property and production for human need. A socialist world would place an enormous priority on alternative energy sources. This is what ecologically-minded socialists have been exploring for quite some time now.”
    Quote by Walden Bello, leftist and founding director of Focus on the Global South: "However it is achieved, a thorough reorganisation of production, consumption and distribution will be the end result of humanity's response to the climate emergency and the broader environmental crisis."
    Quote by UK's Keith Farnish, environmental writer, philosopher and activist: "The only way to prevent global ecological collapse and thus ensure the survival of humanity is to rid the world of Industrial Civilization...Unloading essentially means the removal of an existing burden: for instance, removing grazing domesticated animals, razing cities to the ground, blowing up dams and switching off the greenhouse gas emissions machine."
    Quote by James Lovelock, known as founder of 'Gaia' concept: “I have a feeling that climate change may be an issue as severe as a war. It may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while.”
    Quote by Club of Rome: "Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time."
    Quote by Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury: “We must support government coercion over enforcing international protocols and speed limits on motorways if we want the global economy not to collapse and millions, billions of people to die.”
    Quote by Paula Snyder, an America promoter of green causes: "Greed is the enemy - the underlying problem is greed, and that leads into most of the problems with the ecological system and the political system...I wish I could make a total redistribution [of wealth]...Things are going to change. They have to."
    Quote by Jeffery Sachs, Columbia University, Director of The Earth Institute: "Obama is already setting a new historic course by reorienting the economy from private consumption to public investments...free-market pundits bemoan the evident intention of Obama and team to 'tell us what kind of car to drive'. Yet that is exactly what they intend to do...and rightly so. Free-market ideology is an anachronism in an era of climate change."
    Quote by René Dubos, French scientist, environmentalist, author of the maxim "Think globally, act locally": "Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature."
    Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "The fate of mankind, as well as religion, depends on the emergence of a new faith in the future. Armed with such a faith, we might find it possible to resanctify the earth."
    Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "I envisage the prinicles of the Earth Charter to be a new form of the ten commandments. They lay the foundation for a sustainable global earth community."
    Quote by Prabhath P., environmentalist and member of Intuition Network: "The spirit of our planet is stirring! The Consciousness of Goddess Earth is now rising against all odds, in spite of millennia of suppression, repression and oppression inflicted on Her by a hubristic and misguided humanity. The Earth is a living entity, a biological organism with psychic and spiritual dimensions."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "The greatest hope for the Earth lies in religionists and scientists uniting to awaken the world to its near fatal predicament and then leading mankind out of the bewildering maze of international crises into the future Utopia of humanist hope."
    Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: “All life on Earth is our kin. And in an act of generosity, our relatives create the four sacred elements for us.”..."We have become a force of nature...Not long ago, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, drought, forest fires, even earthquakes and volcanic explosions were accepted as "natural disasters or "acts of God." But now, we have joined God, powerful enough to influence these events."
    Quote by Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General: "Little by little a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,' its transcendence into higher forms of life."
    Quote by Maurice Strong, a wealthy elitist and primary power behind UN throne, and large CO2 producer: "It is the responsibility of each human being today to choose between the force of darkness and the force of light. We must therefore transform our attitudes, and adopt a renewed respect for the superior laws of Divine Nature."

    Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "Nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred; trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals."
    Quote by Global Education Associates, an environmental education group: Their daily Earth pledge - "I pledge allegiance to the Earth and all its sacred parts. Its water, land and living things and all its human hearts."

    Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: “Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
    Quote by Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation: “The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
    Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "We contend that the position of the nuclear promoters is preposterous beyond the wildest imaginings of most nuclear opponents, primarily because one of the purported “benefits” of nuclear power, the availability of cheap and abundant energy, is in fact a liability."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man."
    Quote by John Davis, editor of Earth First! journal: "Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."
    Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells; the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer."
    Quote by John Holdren, President Obama's science czar: "There exists ample authority under which population growth could be regulated...It has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society."
    Quote by Christopher Manes, a writer for Earth First! journal: "The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing."

    Quote by Ted Turner, billionaire, founder of CNN and major UN donor, and large CO2 producer: “A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
    Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: “My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
    Quote by David Brower, a founder of the Sierra Club: "Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."
    Quote by Club of Rome: "...the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million people but less than one billion."
    Quote by Susan Blakemore, a UK Guardian science journalist: "For the planet’s sake, I hope we have bird flu or some other thing that will reduce the population, because otherwise we’re doomed."
    Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "The addition of a temporary sterilant to staple food, or to the water supply. With limited distribution of antidote chemicals, perhaps by lottery".
    Quote by Prince Philip, royal billionaire, married to Queen Elizabeth II, and large CO2 producer: "I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the cull to the size of the surplus population."
    Quote by Bill Gates, Microsoft billionaire, and large CO2 producer: "The world today has 6.8 billion people...that's headed up to about 9 billion. If we do a really great job on vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 to 15 percent."
    Quote by Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, architect of the new Germanic masterplan, the 'Great Transformation': "When you imagine that if all these 9 billion people claim all these resources, then the earth will explode.”
    Quote by Jacques Cousteau, mega-celebrity French scientist: "In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 per day."
    Quote by UN Commission on Global Biodiversity Assessment: "A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible."
    Quote by John Miller, a NOAA climate scientist: "I would be remiss, as a scientist who studied this, if I didn't mention the following two things: The first is that, most importantly, we need to do, as a society, in this country and globally, whatever we can to reduce population"....."Our whole economic system is based on growth, and growth of our population, and this economic madness has to end."
    Quote by John Davis, editor of Earth First! journal: "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."
    Quote by Prince Philip, royal billionaire, married to Queen Elizabeth II, and large CO2 producer: "If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."
    Quote by Ingrid Newkirk, a former PETA President: “The extinction of Homo Sapiens would mean survival for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species. Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on Earth - social and environmental.”
    Quote by Ted Turner, billionaire, founder of CNN and major UN donor, and large CO2 producer: "There are too many people, that's why we have global warming. We have global warming because too many people are using too much stuff."
    Quote by James Lovelock, known as founder of 'Gaia' concept: "The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil."
    Quote by Nina Vsevolod Fedoroff, science advisor to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: “There are probably already too many people on the planet.”
    Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "Third world nations are producing too many children too fast...it is time to ignore the controversy over family planning and cut out-of-control population growth..."
    Quote by Susan Blakemore, a UK Guardian science journalist: "Finally, we might decide that civilisation itself is worth preserving. In that case we have to work out what to save and which people would be needed in a drastically reduced population – weighing the value of scientists and musicians against that of politicians, for example."
    Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: "We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight."
    Quote by Harry Reid, Democrat, U.S. Senate majority leader: "Coal makes us sick. Oil makes us sick. It's global warming. It's ruining our country. It's ruining our world."
    Quote by Osama bin Laden, terrorist leader behind 9/11 plot & attacks: "In fact, the life of all mankind is in danger because of global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories of the major corporations; yet despite that, the representative of these corporations in the White House insists on not observing the Kyoto accord, with the knowledge that the statistics speak of the death and displacement of millions of human beings because of global warming, especially in Africa."
    Quote by Chris Folland of UK Meteorological Office: “The data don't matter. We're not basing our recommendations [for reductions in carbon dioxide emissions] upon the data. We're basing them upon the climate models.”
    Quote by David Frame, climate modeler, Oxford University: “Rather than seeing models as describing literal truth, we ought to see them as convenient fictions which try to provide something useful.”
    Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: "What I would challenge you to do is to put a lot of effort into trying to see whether there's a legal way of throwing our so-called leaders into jail because what they're doing is a criminal act."
    Quote by Amory Lovins, scientist, Rocky Mountain Institute: "Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it."
    Quote by David Graber, scientist U.S. Nat'l Park Services: "We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth. It is cosmically unlikely that the developed world will choose to end its orgy of fossil energy consumption, and the Third World its suicidal consumption of landscape. Until such time as Homo Sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.”
    Quote by Eric Pianka, professor at University of Texas: Good terrorists would be taking [Ebola Roaston and Ebola Zaire] so that they had microbes they could let loose on the Earth that would kill 90 percent of people.
    Quote by John Shuttleworth, founder of Mother Earth News magazine: "The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species (man) upon the rest of the natural world.”
    Quote by Thomas Lovejoy, scientist, Smithsonian Institution: "The planet is about to break out with fever, indeed it may already have, and we [human beings] are the disease. We should be at war with ourselves and our lifestyles."
    Quote by Maurice Strong, a wealthy elitist and primary power behind UN throne, and large CO2 producer: "Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class - involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing - are not sustainable."
    Quote by Pentti Linkola, a Finnish ecological philosopher: “An ecocatastrophe is taking place on earth.....discipline, prohibition, enforcement and oppression are the only solution." "As for those “most responsible for the present economic growth and competition”, Linkola explains that they will be sent to the mountains for “re-education” in eco-gulags: “the sole glimmer of hope,” he declares, “lies in a centralised government and the tireless control of citizens.”
    Quote by Bill Maher, supposedly a comedian, and large CO2 producer: “Failing to warn the citizens of a looming weapon of mass destruction- and that’s what global warming is- in order to protect oil company profits, well, that fits for me the definition of treason.”
    Quote by James Hansen, prominent NASA climate scientist: "...chief executives of large fossil fuel companies to [should] be put on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature; [Hansen] accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming in the same way that tobacco companies blurred the links between smoking and cancer.
    Quote by George Monbiot, a UK Guardian environmental journalist: "...every time someone dies as a result of floods in Bangladesh, an airline executive should be dragged out of his office and drowned."
    Quote by Jill Singer, Australian green and "journalist": "I'm prepared to keep an open mind and propose another stunt for climate sceptics - put your strong views to the test by exposing yourselves to high concentrations of either carbon dioxide or some other colourless, odourless gas - say, carbon monoxide."
    Quote by Ross Gelbsan, former journalist: “Not only do journalists not have a responsibility to report what skeptical scientists have to say about global warming. They have a responsibility not to report what these scientists say.”
    Quote by Charles Alexander, Time Magazine science editor: “I would freely admit that on [global warming] we have crossed the boundary from news reporting to advocacy.”
    Quote by David Roberts, journalist Grist Magazine: "When we've finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we're in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards (global warming skeptics) -- some sort of climate Nuremberg.”
    Quote by Steven Guilbeault, Canadian environemental journalist and Greenpeace member: "Global warming can mean colder, it can mean drier, it can mean wetter."
    Quote by George Monbiot, a UK Guardian environmental journalist: "It is a campaign not for abundance but for austerity. It is a campaign not for more freedom but for less. Strangest of all, it is a campaign not just against other people, but against ourselves."
    Quote by Ted Turner, billionaire, founder of CNN and major UN donor, and large CO2 producer: ‘Global warming’ will kill most of us, and turn the rest of us into cannibals.”
    Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: “We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
    Quote by Maurice King, well known UK professor: “Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
    Quote by Jerry Brown, California liberal Democrat politician: "It's not viable' for poverty stricken developing world to emulate prosperity of U.S."
    Quote by Lord Stern elitist UK economist and promoter of UN climate/economic sanctions: “The US will increasingly see the risks of being left behind, and ten years from now they would have to start worrying about being shut out of markets because their production is dirty.”
    Quote by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and large CO2 producer: "Large-scale hog producers are a greater threat to the United States and U.S. democracy than Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network."
    Quote by Christian Anton Mayer, aka Carl Amery, German environmentalist and writer: "We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."
    Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: "I founded Friends of the Earth to make the Sierra Club look reasonable. Then I founded the Earth Island Institute to make Friends of the Earth seem reasonable."
    Quote by Noel Brown, UN official: "Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of "eco-refugees," threatening political chaos." (Editor: Yes, he meant the year 2000.)
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  25. #11025
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,189
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  26. #11026
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    And the response silence is deafening.
    regards inter

  27. #11027
    3K Club Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    3,519

    Default

    Gold !

  28. #11028
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    And the response silence is deafening.
    regards inter
    If you are referring to the diatribe of "quotes" why respond to someone's attack of "posting diarrhoea"?

    I read the first that claimed that Paul Watson was a founder of Greenpeace [actually he wasn't] and the last that implies that Noel Brown, a UN official Entire said nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels...by the year 2000 (Editor: Yes, he meant the year 2000.) [actually he didn't]. So if the OP needs to use falsehoods to support his ideological claims, all it can say is that deniers are on the nose...

  29. #11029
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    If you are referring to the diatribe of "quotes" why respond to someone's attack of "posting diarrhoea"?

    I read the first that claimed that Paul Watson was a founder of Greenpeace [actually he wasn't] and the last that implies that Noel Brown, a UN official Entire said nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels...by the year 2000 (Editor: Yes, he meant the year 2000.) [actually he didn't]. So if the OP needs to use falsehoods to support his ideological claims, all it can say is that deniers are on the nose...
    Im glad we have some body to split hairs all day finding typos, perhaps you could give us a run down on all the above quotes regarding whether they pass the hairsplitting test? And maybe one fact about how astronomical concentrations of CO2 in the past atmosphere didn't burn the earth to a crisp?
    regards inter

  30. #11030
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Im glad we have some body to split hairs all day finding typos, perhaps you could give us a run down on all the above quotes regarding whether they pass the hairsplitting test? And maybe one fact about how astronomical concentrations of CO2 in the past atmosphere didn't burn the earth to a crisp?
    regards inter
    I couldn't find any hairs to split before I gave up due to the obvious falsehoods posted and to which you haven't responded.

    Anyone who wants can easily find the reasons why "astronomical concentrations of CO2 in the past atmosphere didn't burn the earth to a crisp" and it's been posted here in this forum as well, but... There are none so blind as those who will not see. Or for Marc: ‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.' (Jeremiah 5:21)


  31. #11031
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    I couldn't find any hairs to split before I gave up due to the obvious falsehoods posted and to which you haven't responded.

    Anyone who wants can easily find the reasons why "astronomical concentrations of CO2 in the past atmosphere didn't burn the earth to a crisp" and it's been posted here in this forum as well, but... There are none so blind as those who will not see. Or for Marc: ‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.' (Jeremiah 5:21)

    Again a lot of words but as usual just not even one tiny fact to parrot! I'm almost down on one knee, hands clasped looking to the heavens for hope now!
    even got a sermon to help me on my way & explains the blind faith needed in my quest to join the ranks.
    regards inter

  32. #11032
    1K Club Member johnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Again a lot of words but as usual just not even one tiny fact to parrot! I'm almost down on one knee, hands clasped looking to the heavens for hope now!
    even got a sermon to help me on my way & explains the blind faith needed in my quest to join the ranks.
    regards inter

    No matter how much you polish a @@@@ it is still a @@@@, those so called quotes have been done before some are almost accurate some are spurious one thing they are not worth is responding to, if you want facts the poster should stick to facts especially ones that extend beyond denialist rubbish. Two things are missing a presentation of any thing worth commenting on and an acceptance that if you are truly interested n reaching common ground you don't use falsehoods and lies. This just proves bias nothing else.

  33. #11033
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Again a lot of words but as usual just not even one tiny fact to parrot! I'm almost down on one knee, hands clasped looking to the heavens for hope now!
    even got a sermon to help me on my way & explains the blind faith needed in my quest to join the ranks.
    regards inter
    So why is Inter QUOTE: "not disputing man made climate change" (#10958) defending Marc QUOTE: "Public figures and paid supporters of the hypothesis of human induced global warming have joined a cult style movement and use a cult style method of proselytising" (#10979)?

    It seems to be an example of the "honour amongst thieves" of the climate change deniers who can't agree on anything other than everyone else is wrong - LOL.

  34. #11034
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    No matter how much you polish a @@@@ it is still a @@@@, those so called quotes have been done before some are almost accurate some are spurious one thing they are not worth is responding to, if you want facts the poster should stick to facts especially ones that extend beyond denialist rubbish. Two things are missing a presentation of any thing worth commenting on and an acceptance that if you are truly interested n reaching common ground you don't use falsehoods and lies. This just proves bias nothing else.
    And who wouldn't be biased with the lack of facts or logical arguments from the opposing side, I'm a swinging voter, so present something believable & I'll swap sides & viewpoints in a heartbeat, but falling for the religious, cultist or flavour of the month fuzzy feeling mobs propaganda just doesn't do it, even for my meagre intelligence. After all one measly fact will do it! There's your challenge to come up with one itty bitty fact?
    regards inter

  35. #11035
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    So why is Inter QUOTE: "not disputing man made climate change" (#10958) defending Marc QUOTE: "Public figures and paid supporters of the hypothesis of human induced global warming have joined a cult style movement and use a cult style method of proselytising" (#10979)?

    It seems to be an example of the "honour amongst thieves" of the climate change deniers who can't agree on anything other than everyone else is wrong - LOL.
    funny how the above still doesn't look or resemble anything like a fact were all waiting for! Propaganda yes! Facts no!
    Regards inter

  36. #11036
    Gone Feral - 1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    After all one measly fact will do it! There's your challenge to come up with one itty bitty fact?
    There have already been many facts posted in this thread. It's clear that one more itty bitty fact won't help you, but there is sure to be more itty bitty facts in due course.

    You could help of course by posting some facts to support your own stated view that global warming is happening and how humankind is involved other than CO2. You have repeatedly stated that there is no warming for 16 years, that the warming in the oceans is not significant and your unsupported view that Antarctica is not losing ice, how about explaining your belief in global warming with some itty bitty facts of your own.

    There is no Planet B

    (within a lifetime's travel at the speed of light)


  37. #11037
    1K Club Member johnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    It is quite bizarre to ask that you be proved wrong Inter, I actually don't think your opinion matters anymore than anybody else, if you are wrong so what, it just means you haven't been able to sort the wheat from the chaff but it is no big deal otherwise. Anyway you have a locked on position, that has shown no propensity to move beyond a fixed point and an amazing ability to ignore anything that does not suit that position, you cannot apply reason in that situation ad expect it to be absorbed.

  38. #11038
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    There have already been many facts posted in this thread. It's clear that one more itty bitty fact won't help you, but there is sure to be more itty bitty facts in due course.

    You could help of course by posting some facts to support your own stated view that global warming is happening and how humankind is involved other than CO2. You have repeatedly stated that there is no warming for 16 years, that the warming in the oceans is not significant and your unsupported view that Antarctica is not losing ice, how about explaining your belief in global warming with some itty bitty facts of your own.
    do you have trouble understanding something so simple as my question? Just for you again because you seem to be trolling too many sites to keep up, the question is for you & your like again is to come up with some simple graph or data that disproves the facts that in the past CO2 in massive concentrations never produced uncontrollable heating of the globes climate & why now with such a minor change in this concentration should it overthrow the past indisputable history.
    so yes, one itty bitty fact will do! If there was this fact it could have been parroted ten times over instead of the usual sputum coughed up while dodging & evading the obvious.
    Regards inter

  39. #11039
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    ...the facts that in the past CO2 in massive concentrations never produced uncontrollable heating of the globes climate & why now with such a minor change in this concentration should it overthrow the past indisputable history.
    I have a quibble over indisputable...and another regarding uncontrollable but no matter.

    I have nothing further to add as I don't think this crack can be fixed with wallpaper because the foundation is broken...and demolition is prohibited due to a heritage listing.

    On another matter...Marc's quotes broke my tapatalk.
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  40. #11040
    Gone Feral - 1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    I don't have a lot of trouble understanding questions, but I have trouble answering loaded questions such as you post. In the spirit of good faith, I will offer some answers for you despite the fact that you decided to not answer my previous simple question. If you do your usual put down without facts I probably won't respond to your posts in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    the question is for you & your like again is to come up with some simple graph or data that disproves the facts that in the past CO2 in massive concentrations never produced uncontrollable heating of the globes climate & why now with such a minor change in this concentration should it overthrow the past indisputable history.
    Firstly, what is this 'uncontrollable heating' you speak of? Adding CO2 to the atmosphere will result in warming until the climate reaches a new balance as a result of the forcings in play at that time.

    Do you wish to dispute that adding CO2 to the atmosphere causes warming, or do you wish to dispute that adding CO2 to the atmosphere causes runaway warming, or both?

    I can think of a few facts for you for the warming case, not that it will help you hear something you do not want to hear.

    1. CO2 in high concentrations was part of a past climate. It was not introduced into the climate system by us, we did not exist then. We have added CO2 to a relatively stable climate system and the results are playing out.

    2. Back when CO2 was in high concentrations in the past, the energy output of the sun was lower.

    3. Back when CO2 was in high concentrations in the past, the makeup of the climate forcings was not the same as it is now.

    4. Picking an instance in the past where CO2 was high yet temperatures were low or dropping does not prove that raising CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere now will not result in warming. That is called cherry picking, and you are very good at it. Well done, but no cigar.

    No graphics for you

    There is no Planet B

    (within a lifetime's travel at the speed of light)


  41. #11041
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    I don't have a lot of trouble understanding questions, but I have trouble answering loaded questions such as you post. In the spirit of good faith, I will offer some answers for you despite the fact that you decided to not answer my previous simple question. If you do your usual put down without facts I probably won't respond to your posts in future.

    the facts have been been displayed ad nauseam previously, to which your types have responded to with nothing resembling an overthrowing argument! No graphs, no data, no nothing! Seeing the data proving my argument has been posted numerous times, we all await eagerly for yours & until that happens you have Buckley's chance of sucking me into your red herring trap



    Firstly, what is this 'uncontrollable heating' you speak of? Adding CO2 to the atmosphere will result in warming until the climate reaches a new balance as a result of the forcings in play at that time.

    Got some data or graphs for your claim?

    Do you wish to dispute that adding CO2 to the atmosphere causes warming, or do you wish to dispute that adding CO2 to the atmosphere causes runaway warming, or both?

    i take that as another red herring!

    I can think of a few facts for you for the warming case, not that it will help you hear something you do not want to hear.

    1. CO2 in high concentrations was part of a past climate. It was not introduced into the climate system by us, we did not exist then. We have added CO2 to a relatively stable climate system and the results are playing out.

    Got some data or graphs to back up your claim?

    2. Back when CO2 was in high concentrations in the past, the energy output of the sun was lower.

    yes we've heard that one ad nauseam & if you had thought about it a little more deeply you would understand how stupid it is!

    3. Back when CO2 was in high concentrations in the past, the makeup of the climate forcings was not the same as it is now.

    got some data or graphs to back up your claim?

    4. Picking an instance in the past where CO2 was high yet temperatures were low or dropping does not prove that raising CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere now will not result in warming. That is called cherry picking, and you are very good at it. Well done, but no cigar.

    Thats the thing about what has actually happened, it trumps all the bizarre "what if" claims every time.

    No graphics for you
    and not one itty bitty fact as yet I notice!!
    regards inter

  42. #11042
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    I have a quibble over indisputable...and another regarding uncontrollable but no matter.

    I have nothing further to add as I don't think this crack can be fixed with wallpaper because the foundation is broken...and demolition is prohibited due to a heritage listing.

    On another matter...Marc's quotes broke my tapatalk.
    yes I think when those words used to describe AGW they are over the top! especially when there is no factual basis, at least when I used them there are the facts to back the language used. Funny how it hits a nerve when used appropriately! Ahh the workings of biased thought in action!
    regards inter

  43. #11043
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default

    In this thread, facts are just opinions with the optional extras fitted. A cloaca with trimmings...nothing more.
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  44. #11044
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    Laugh Riot: 190-year climate ‘tipping point’ issued — Despite fact that UN began 10-Year ‘Climate Tipping Point’ in 1989!

    Climate Depot Factsheet on Inconvenient History of Global Warming 'Tipping Points' -- Hours, Days, Months, Years, Millennium -- Earth 'Serially Doomed'


    By: Marc Morano - Climate DepotJune 29, 2010 8:42 AM

    Climate Depot Editorial
    Once again, the world is being warned of a climate “tipping point.” The latest bout of stern warnings comes from a survey of 14 climate “experts.”
    Get ready, we only have 190 years! Scientists ‘expect climate tipping point’ by 2200 – UK Independent – June 28, 2010 – Excerpt: “13 of the 14 experts said that the probability of reaching a tipping point (by 2200) was greater than 50 per cent, and 10 said that the chances were 75 per cent or more.”
    Such silliness. It’s difficult to keep up whether it is hours, days, months or 1000 years. Here are few recent examples of others predicting climate “tipping points” of various durations.
    HOURS: Flashback March 2009: ‘We have hours’ to prevent climate disaster — Declares Elizabeth May of Canadian Green Party
    Days: Flashback Oct. 2009: UK’s Gordon Brown warns of global warming ‘catastrophe’; Only ’50 days to save world’
    Months: Prince Charles claimed a 96-month tipping point in July 2009
    Years: Flashback Oct .2009: WWF: ‘Five years to save world’
    Millennium: Flashback June 2010: 1000 years delay: Green Guru James Lovelock: Climate change may not happen as fast as we thought, and we may have 1,000 years to sort it out’
    It is becoming obvious that the only authentic climate “tipping point” we can rely is this one:
    Flashback 2007: New Zealand Scientist on Global Warming: ‘It’s All Going to be a Joke in 5 Years’ (He wasn’t Optimistic enough — it only took 3 years!)
    Inconvenient History of Climate ‘Tipping Point’ Warnings
    As early as 1989, the UN was already trying to sell their “tipping point” rhetoric on the public. See: U.N. Warning of 10-Year ‘Climate Tipping Point’ Began in 1989 – Excerpt: According to July 5, 1989, article in the Miami Herald, the then-director of the New York office of the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP), Noel Brown, warned of a “10-year window of opportunity to solve” global warming. According to the 1989 article, “A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ‘eco-refugees,’ threatening political chaos.” (LINK) & (LINK)
    NASA scientist James Hansen has been warning of a “tipping point” for years now. See: Earth’s Climate Approaches Dangerous Tipping Point – June 1, 2007 – Excerpt: A stern warning that global warming is nearing an irreversible tipping point was issued today” by James Hansen.
    Former Vice President Al Gore invented his own “tipping point” clock a few years ago. Excerpt: Former Vice-President Al Gore came to Washington on July 17, 2008, to deliver yet another speech warning of the “climate crisis.” “The leading experts predict that we have less than 10 years to make dramatic changes in our global warming pollution lest we lose our ability to ever recover from this environmental crisis,” Gore stated.
    Prince Charles claimed a 96-month tipping point in July 2009. Excerpt: The heir to the throne told an audience of industrialists and environmentalists at St James’s Palace last night that he had calculated that we have just 96 months left to save the world. And in a searing indictment on capitalist society, Charles said we can no longer afford consumerism and that the “age of convenience” was over.
    ‘World has only ten years to control global warming, warns Met Office – UK Telegraph – November 15, 2009
    Excerpt: Pollution needs to be brought under control within ten years to stop runaway climate change, according to the latest Met Office predictions. [...] “To limit global mean temperature [increases] to below 2C, implied emissions of CO2 to the atmosphere at the end of the century fall close to zero in most cases.”
    The UN chief Ban Ki-moon further shortened the “tipping point” in August 2009, when he warned of ‘incalculable’ suffering without climate deal in December 2009!
    Newsweek magazine waded into the tipping point claims as well. Newsweek wrote: “The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.” But, Newsweek’s “tipping point” quote appeared in a April 28, 1975 article about global cooling! Same rhetoric, different eco-scare.
    [Climate Depot Editor's Note: The public understands that "we must act now" claims are being manufactured for political purposes. See: Gore: U.S. Climate Bill Will Help Bring About 'Global Governance' - July 10, 2009 - It is no wonder that more and more Americans are rejecting climate fears. See: Polling: 'More Americans believe in haunted houses than man-made global warming' - 37% vs. 36% - October 30, 2009 - For another explanation of why climate fear promoters are failing to convince the public, see: MIT Climate Scientist: 'Ordinary people see through man-made climate fears -- but educated people are very vulnerable' – July 6, 2009]
    UK Scientist Philip Stott ridiculed “tipping point” claims in 2007. Excerpt: In essence, the Earth has been given a 10-year survival warning regularly for the last fifty or so years. We have been serially doomed. [...] Our post-modern period of climate change angst can probably be traced back to the late-1960s, if not earlier. By 1973, and the ‘global cooling’ scare, it was in full swing, with predictions of the imminent collapse of the world within ten to twenty years, exacerbated by the impacts of a nuclear winter. Environmentalists were warning that, by the year 2000, the population of the US would have fallen to only 22 million [the 2007 population estimate is 302,824,000]. [...] In 1987, the scare abruptly changed to ‘global warming’, and the IPCC (the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) was established (1988), issuing its first assessment report in 1990, which served as the basis of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCC).
    Related Links:
    Flashback 2007: Climatologist Dr. Michaels mocks ‘tipping points’: ‘We have to do something in 10 years — they have been saying that for two years. Why don’t they at least subtract 2 and make it 8?’
    Another Atmospheric Scientist Dissents: Calls fears of CO2 tipping point ‘alarmist, ludicrous, and totally without foundation’ – July 13, 2009 – ‘Over geologic time there has been 15 to 25 times more CO2 than current concentrations’
    Media Tipping Point! Houston Chronicle Reporter Reconsiders Science is ‘Settled’ Claims! ‘I am confused. 4 years ago this all seemed like a fait accompli’ – September 6, 2009
    Antarctic Tipping Point? ‘If we don’t act soon, the planet will become a barren ball of ice and snow’ – October 2, 2009 – ’5 of the 6 years with the greatest Southern Hemisphere sea ice extent have occurred in just the last decade’
    2007 – GLOBAL WARMING ALARMISM REACHES A TIPPING POINT – October 26, 2007
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  45. #11045
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    In this thread, facts are just opinions with the optional extras fitted. A cloaca with trimmings...nothing more.
    i can't help it if what has happened in the past turned out to be not uncontrollable & indisputable, such is life.
    but if it makes you feel better call it an opinion.
    regards inter

  46. #11046
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default

    [Giggle]

    Smugness fits you like a glove...just like Marc's ball & chain
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  47. #11047
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    [Giggle]

    Smugness fits you like a glove...just like Marc's ball & chain
    not feeling better by the looks of it.
    regards inter

  48. #11048
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Below the Seventh Circle......
    Posts
    2,975

    Default Re: Emission Trading

    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    not feeling better by the looks of it.
    regards inter
    Can you see me?
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  49. #11049
    2K Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Can you see me?
    thats not very likely, but anything is possible with an intelligent answer about the debate at hand.
    regards inter

  50. #11050
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    What is the attraction in the "Global warming" fallacy? The "Climate change" fraud? the "CO2 is bad for you" boldface lie?

    All have the allure of what I call the Robin Hood syndrome.

    For thousands of years, organised religion, folklore and storytellers have drummed into humanity that it is bad to be rich, the rich don't go to heaven, that rich are evil, also that poor are virtuous and happy when rich are oh so sad and guilty.
    After so many years this concepts are part of our DNA. We believe it by default, we have adopted it as our moral standard knowingly or not. Even atheists marxist have bought into the idea. "Surplus value" or what the (bad) rich steal from the (virtuous) poor.

    What could be more attractive than an imaginary problem created by the bad rich and that makes the virtuous poor suffer?
    You got it, man made (rich man) global warming fits perfectly with the Christian values, the marxist values and the ignorant and the ill informed values.

    So what does someone who believes the have, should give the the one that do not have?
    He makes Robin Hood his hero! ... and anything that takes from the rich to give to the poor is embraced with gusto.
    The so called "progressive" system of taxation is a direct result of the rich is evil and poor is virtuous concept or the result of the so called Robin Hood syndrome.

    The quest to "save the earth" is in fact a battle against the bad rich by the virtuous poor ...in disguise of course.
    And of course most will not see it or admit it and all the possible variations are but a confirmation. I do it for our future, for the kids, for the one that have no voice, for justice etc.

    From a more pragmatic point of view, the Robin Hood syndrome is really just a juvenile tantrum, an immature fancy, a sport that is both impractical and morally bankrupt.
    Just like many other juvenile tantrums, they should pass at age 18 or so, yet they don't always do.

    It is my sincere hope that it will turn into a less damaging form of sport, or perhaps take a form that may have some use for the fringe dwellers that like to take but do not want to give.

    Time will tell.
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley




Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •