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Instant electric hot water & the perils of Ebay

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  1. #1
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    Default Instant electric hot water & the perils of Ebay

    Hi
    You follow instructions carefully please, is easy to do:tic:
    Electric HOT Water Heater Shower Panel System Instant HOT Shower D005 | eBay
    PeterQ

  2. #2
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    Its certainly reassuring that the water and electricity are separated completely

  3. #3
    Slow but rough Uncle Bob's Avatar
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    Geez, I really hope folks aren't DIYing these as per those instructions

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Geez, I really hope folks aren't DIYing these as per those instructions
    Nothing to worry about it clearly states "do not worry its easy"

  5. #5
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    Why the worry? It's passed the CCC certification.

  6. #6
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    I see it has gears in it too?

    Seriously, I've never used such a device but even if properly installed I have some doubts as to how satisfactory it would be. 5.8 kW heating capacity versus typically 40 kW for an instant gas HWS so it's a big difference.

    Looking at my own shower head, in use the heat input required is about 18 kW assuming the incoming water is 13 degrees and the shower is at 42 degrees and a flow of 9 litres per minute. So you're not going to get much of a shower out of something that only has one third of that capacity.

  7. #7
    Slow but rough Uncle Bob's Avatar
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    Lol at the "gears".

    I think the "flow adjust" is a restrictor to allow it to heat a trickle satisfactory

  8. #8
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    Default Flashback

    Back in the 80's I was living in a cheap B&B in Cricklewood (North London). The owner was as mad as a cut snake. And in one of the bathrooms was a similar device made out of plastic. I only used it once for about 10 seconds because the pressure and flow was pathetic - it was like being piddled on!!!! Accept it was COLD. And I do remember thinking that England was a backward country.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Geez, I really hope folks aren't DIYing these as per those instructions
    Hi Bob
    But "it is so easy " & "do not worry'



    PeterQ

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by plum View Post
    Why the worry? It's passed the CCC certification.
    Hi


    PeterQ

  11. #11
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
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    At times it is baffling why there are so many Chinese people...this is one of those times. Or perhaps they merely export their stupidity and keep the brilliance for themselves

    I love the idea that I might happen to have a powerpoint within arms reach of my shower. Let alone that changing it to a 25 amp outlet might suddenly make it deliver 25 amps. Or perhaps I should just run an extension lead?
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

  12. #12
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    Excellent! So all I have to do to be able to run 6000w appliances in my home is change the PowerPoint?! Its easy! And the sparkies on this forum go on about how hard it is and how you should get an electrician. Well guys I bet you feel pretty silly now right?

    Seriously though, I didn't think you could make claims like that in Australia. If that product was in Bunnings with those instructions the ACCC would be all over them. God help anyone buying this thing.

    Danny

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    Quote Originally Posted by plum View Post
    Why the worry? It's passed the CCC certification.
    Is that the Canton croquet club ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldie1 View Post
    Is that the Canton croquet club ???
    Not sure. I thought it might be a Cup of Coca Cola. Well, it may as well be for all the good it's going to do with instructions like that.

    The real concern is that someone will buy and attempt to install this contraption as per the instructions. Installed with a proper power supply it might at least be safe. But once someone swaps the 10A socket outlet for 25A, then finds the fuse blows and so puts in thicker wire, well that's when the fire brigade gets involved. Sadly, it will (considering the price) probably be someone not financially well off who ends up doing this.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    Not sure. I thought it might be a Cup of Coca Cola. Well, it may as well be for all the good it's going to do with instructions like that.

    The real concern is that someone will buy and attempt to install this contraption as per the instructions. Installed with a proper power supply it might at least be safe. But once someone swaps the 10A socket outlet for 25A, then finds the fuse blows and so puts in thicker wire, well that's when the fire brigade gets involved. Sadly, it will (considering the price) probably be someone not financially well off who ends up doing this.
    Hi Smurf
    You hit the nail on the head
    I posted this on three RV forums
    They are often interested in or asking about such
    Not one saw that point
    In fact on one forum many could not even see the point of the post

    PeterQ

    EDITED POST
    Last edited by The Administration Team; 13th May 2013 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Remove cross forum link.

  16. #16
    Duck Fat - 2K club member SilentButDeadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtrack123 View Post
    Hi Smurf
    You hit the nail on the head
    I posted this on three RV forums
    They are often interested in or asking about such
    Not one saw that point
    In fact on one forum many could not even see the point of the post
    Given the fact that many RV power cables from the post to the vehicle are often so overloaded with electricity that they have a life of their own...this does not surprise me.
    People don't ever seem to realise that doing what's right is no guarantee against misfortune

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    I don't know what you blokes are talking about as surely 183 people can't be wrong.

    I could do with one of those as I am currently in a unit in Brisbane that is owned by people from Hong Kong and in the toilet there is a bum gun but it is on the cold water supply, I might have to stick to paper.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I don't know what you blokes are talking about as surely 183 people can't be wrong.

    I could do with one of those as I am currently in a unit in Brisbane that is owned by people from Hong Kong and in the toilet there is a bum gun but it is on the cold water supply, I might have to stick to paper.

    Hi
    I wonder how many of those 183 are still alive or whose house have not been on fire



    PeterQ

  19. #19
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    I like the last instructions in red where you have to run water through to avoid dry heating... but this is "only for first time". I presume that after first time, plug (bought at hardware store), power point, cable and circuit breaker have all blown up or caught fire so there is no second time!

  20. #20
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    Smile

    HI All
    Well a message to the seller got a quick reaction !
    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...181wt_1031
    "Not do easy now"


    PeterQ

  21. #21
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    They sell these all throughout Asia. There are models available from most of the major manufacturers. Here's one from Panasonic.
    DH-3DL2S | Panasonic

    They are a cheap solution for poorer homes that do not have mains hot water. There is no reason why these can't be safe, if used and installed correctly.

  22. #22
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    Hi Dominic

    I think that your last sentence says it all. Unfortunately the instructions infer that anyone can just connect it up. Our "Wiring Rules" have very specific requirements regarding switches and their IP rating in damp areas, in particular the distance they must be from taps, water containers , screens, and the need for RCD protection etc. All for safety reasons.

    The 6kW rating goes close to or exceeds the maximum current load on commonly used "power" wiring, switches and the like (depending on how it is run) and so introduces a fire risk if these issues aren't taken into consideration. Unfortunately many DIY people don't know about this sort of stuff, hence the comments by other posters. We all know what electricity can do when it goes wrong, especially when it is mixed with water!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominicw View Post
    They sell these all throughout Asia. There are models available from most of the major manufacturers. Here's one from Panasonic.
    DH-3DL2S | Panasonic

    They are a cheap solution for poorer homes that do not have mains hot water. There is no reason why these can't be safe, if used and installed correctly.
    HI Dominic

    NO ONE was /is knocking the product
    In fact Instaneous elecrtic hot water units have been available for donkeys years, from the 1940s to my personal knowledge!!

    THEY were very simple, just a transformer with a shortcircuited copper tube secondary which the water flowed through

    BUT as you said in your last lines
    THEY ALL HAVE TO BE INSTALLED CORRECTLY & IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS
    for safety reasons
    The ORIGINAL Advert gave installation details that was far from that!!

    That is often a problem"the perils of Ebay"
    PS, The panasonic unit that you linked has several necessary safety features AND is ONLY 3kWATTS
    PeterQ

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkyt View Post
    Hi Dominic

    I think that your last sentence says it all. Unfortunately the instructions infer that anyone can just connect it up. Our "Wiring Rules" have very specific requirements regarding switches and their IP rating in damp areas, in particular the distance they must be from taps, water containers , screens, and the need for RCD protection etc. All for safety reasons.

    The 6kW rating goes close to or exceeds the maximum current load on commonly used "power" wiring, switches and the like (depending on how it is run) and so introduces a fire risk if these issues aren't taken into consideration. Unfortunately many DIY people don't know about this sort of stuff, hence the comments by other posters. We all know what electricity can do when it goes wrong, especially when it is mixed with water!
    I think the comment about DIY is a very pertinent one, when getting the electrician in for a recent DIY ensuite I was surprised to find we had to move a switch from where it was installed 30 years before as the regulations had changed. Although not a big deal it does highlight that when adding or altering gut feel and common sense don't really cut it. I would hate to think there are possibly people out there trying to wire one of those things in following instructions that come straight from the Dodgy Brothers rule book, plus they appear to have been originally stolen from that other well known company Bastards Incorporated.

  25. #25
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    The issue is with the suggestion that it is a DIY install using wiring that already exists simply by swapping a few bits over. That could easily electrocute someone, burn the house down, or both.

    The idea of an instant electric HWS isn't a problem in itself and there are indeed many manufacturers of them, some of them being "major" brands such as Panasonic. Installed correctly they're safe to use.

    But installation isn't a DIY job for any 6kW appliance and that's the issue.

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