Hi Fellow Woodworkers,

WARNING: This is not the first time this question has been asked! I've found the histories of so many good opinions on the net but still remain confused. Attached are photos of my deck under construction facing north to a broad South Aussie sky & a saltwater pool. I'm doing the best job I can with heavy guage steel posts, Woodtreated LTF F27 Kiln Dried Blackbutt subframe & 90 x 19mm Merbau decking loosely tacked on with stainless brads then twin stainless screws per joist. Have I got it right so far?








My question is the finish. I know I need to let the tanins run for a time & timber clean. I was impressed with Utemad's post on Napisan...Is that better than all the commercial products and OK under subsequent finishes? If you look at my pics you'll see the posts of a pergola finished with 1 coat Dimension 4 & 4 coats of Intergrain DWD. I must say I love this stuff and have great faith in its longevity but understand that it has some drawbacks; chiefly that it forms a kind of varnish crust that if it breaks down you are in all sorts of strife & would need to sand it off & start again..No way! So I'd disciplined & do a maintanence coat every 4 years or so?! Whatevers required.

Others say use decking oils, cause all though they break down fast, are easier to apply. Many claim they do this 'cause their lazy but it sounds more work to me! I don't mind putting the effort in the beggining. I also don't believe in letting timbers begin to bleach out & scrub them back [1 timber only TEAK and this isn't] So what to use INTERGRAIN [Dim 4 / DWD] OR the others & what?....

Sickens, Deck & Spa, 2,3 part processes or 1 part? Acrylic oil base? Is there a mid ground product that has good ultra-violet light inhibitors? Whats the best current thinking for that illusive mix of near natural finish, longevity & ease of maintainence?

Sorry I know this has been covered before but I want the up to date answers from those that know what is good.

Also if anybody needs some work I'm looking out for Adelaide carpenters for my business, overwhelmed with client demand & I want to get on with my own place!

Cheers
Matthew P

In the interests of stimulating feedback here are some examples of nearby structures I've built using the intergrain DWD. Here you see Carport Screen [closed & open] & Also the post next to the water tank with the diamond rail coming out of it. This is to act as a screening privacy fence with strained wire & Star Jasmine.





I know Intergrain performs well on vertical structures, but does it wear well underfoot? Grit, spills, etc. If I don't get a response I'll use the intergrain [or pick up the phone to the advisory lines at least]

I'm sure someones out there with a different opinion on the best type of finish? OR heartily agrees that for life & finish INTERGRAINS DWD is the best? OR NOT...

Mind you whats their Ultra Deck like?

Matthew P

Over 200 reads & not one response

If you can't find an answer in Utemad's threads not sure you'll get one. On an exposed deck your expectation that you'll get 4 years is 'dreamin'. Most exposed decking timber will need a top up in less than two in my experience regardless of the coating (other than opaques paints and stains that have heavy pigments so are better protected from UV).

__________________
Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

I am tired of oiling my deck every 4 to 6 months and need something to last longer. Spa and Deck and the Sikkens products appear to yellowish for me from what I have seen of peoples photos. The Ultra deck product sounds good as its sems to be more transparent than the stains but last longer that an oil. But I want something that will last 2 years and as the Ultra deck product is only a few years old Im not sure how long it will last as there is little feedback. I am going to try Intergrain Natural Stain as its sounds easier to apply that the DWD product.

In fully exposed desk as opposed to those under verandahs almost impossible not to need annual re-coat if using oils. The finishes that last longer are OK so long as you re-coar before they start breaking down (usually under 3 years in my experience) - if you leave it too late then a complete strip and redo is needed.

If you really want low maintenance then opaque is the only option - but then the timber is hidden and you may as well have a painted TP deck . . .

But I am no specialist in that area, I am just relying on broad and long term experience, so maybe others can tell a more positive story!

__________________
Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

I think the trend for merbau screens and decks disregards the long term maintenance issues. I've used spa n deck and got a few years on a handrail exposed to full sun. The reality is that oil needs recoating often, acrylics less often but still every one to two years. You have to expect to recoat or use paint. Other option is something like modwood which costs more initially.


Cheers
Pulse

seen so often on commercial buildings or units with screens - look great while on sale then the body corporate or owners find they need re-coating regularly (and usually aren't!).

__________________
Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

After a lot of years in the Paint industry,both as an end user and Retailer/Distributor,I have found when using transparent finishes on timber decks,the following general rules apply.....
If the deck is fully exposed to direct sunlight (North/Westerly)...

1.The brand of product is less important than the type of product.
2. Turps Based Decking oils last around 6-9 months.
3. Turps Based Decking Stains last around 12-18 months.
4. Acrylic Stains /Water Based Oils will last around 50% longer than theTurps based equivalent.

The reason for this is not "rocket science"..water based coatings leave a thicker,(slightly artifical look) coating compared to turps based products,therefore taking longer to bleach away in the sun.
Water Based Stains work OK on Treated Pine,particularly if you want to change the natural timber colour,but my preference on NEW dense oily hardwoods like Merbau is to use a Turps Based Stain in the same colour as the timber..
This gives the most natural look ,and is less affected by the tannin bleed that will happen with new hardwoods,and lasts longer than a Turps Based Oil.
Regards,
Blocker

Blocker, Bloss, Pulse and Davidvas really appreciate the feedback. I am facing North to an open sky and take the point that a maintainence coat will be well inside 4 years. I also share the observation on the fashion for horizontal oiled screens and their inevitable breakdown. Blocker's remarks were very concise & helpful.

I remain attracted to the Acrylic system for its longevity despite the varnish "crust". I feel part of the success of DWD is that it has a semi-opaque biscuit colouring that when it dries has a fairly natural look on the Kwilia.

I'm going to ring some helplines, Intergrain and the like, I'll report back on advice gained. Clearly there is no easy answer, except letting the deck boards grey naturally which I'm seriously considering.

Cheers
Matthew P

Well I rang Intergrain and they were very patient & helpful .....like you guys

DWD is clearly the hardest wearing and longest lasting but it comes at a price; expensive, many more coats & harder to maintain & more dangerous a challenge if you ever let that varnish crust breakdown.

Ultra Deck was their strong recommendation as it is the latest technology, easy to apply, weathers naturally without cracking and is done in two coats. Offcourse it won't last as long. However I suppose thats the midground, if you get two years you just wash it down with Reviva [naturally they are not keen on Napisan] & apply a couple of new coats.

Always happy to hear contrary advice

Cheers
Matthew P

Thanks for this very useful and fairly recent forum post ... We're still not sure which way we'll go, but this has given us a good summary as we too have been looking at all the other historical posts and were getting confused.

Hey mod's what about making this a sticky?

Couldn't help myself to add to the post. After some 5 years of professionally doing timber restoration on the Sunshine Coast Qld there are a number of things I have discovered. The first is to be totally sceptical when a new product hits the shelves promising to be the worlds best. I have a number of small decking panels that I have coated with various products on the roof of my house. They get absolutely baked and after 12 months tell the true story of longevity.

Most people that I meet with are usually fairly aggravated/p####d off with the state of their deck that is in the sun. The most common scenario is dome headed twist nails coated in DWD/cetol deck,cetol hls and are peeling,flaking and with dwd blistering. I visit a lot of just black decks that are black from the kerosine based oil products. Others are black due to the mould feeding on the organic based oils used. The three most common timbers I see is kwila-merbau, yellow balau, spotted gum.

To say most everyone becomes confused by the myriad of opinions,suggestions ,recommendations is an understatement. Time goes by very quickly and for some they want something that has great longevity and will sacrifice some of the schmiko look to have it.Others want ease of application,clean up,quick drying,no smell . Others just want cheap regardless of any otherconcerns. Some people are romantics who say they are happy to recoat every 6 months but after several years the novelty wore off. Others are tired of products that remain a sticky mess for several weeks or more.

I have reached the conclusion that there is no one best product that does it all. I do know that the last thing I want is to have my customers call me after I have restored their deck and be upset some 6 months later because it hasn't done what I said it does and will do and won't do.

I have struck several of my customers who have far greater expectations about what outdoor timber decking and coatings should be able to handle. These people want their deck to remain as good as theit hardwood floor inside the house. This is just in any way impossible if it is in total sun,rain,mould,skateboards,bbq grease,heavy furniture dragged,potplants sitting on the deck along with the cats and dogs using the deck for their duty.

This forum is a great sounding voice for all to seek advice,opinion and let the new member or the seasoned veteran offer information . It is up to all of us who participate to share the best knowledge we can.

Eventually everyone finally selects what they are hopefully happy with. You can take the same product and have 10 people use it. Chances are 5 will be thrilled with it and want to use it over and will tell their friends how great it is. The other 5 will bag the tripe out of it and tell everyone who listens what a c##p product it is and to steer clear of it.

I wish you luck in your decision and hope it performs to the standard you are seeking. Several things to consider. All coatings will need close to annual recoating if exposed most heavily to the sun. Reviva is based on Oxalic acid by 10% PH1 and the active ingredient in napisan is sodium percarbonate which is approximately 30% of the the total volume and is PH 12.5. The two products are at the opposite ends of the chemical scale. Reviva is acidic and napisan is alkaline. Both work differently on different deck coatings.

Good luck

JimJ restore-a-deck.com.au

Good reply Jim, but what is your preferred choice/s and which do you think to steer clear off.?

__________________
Brian

My journey into deck coatings began here at my house after a major renovation. I did what everyone I spoke with told me to do and the product to use. By far Sikkens Cetol Deck was the king of the coatings. I hired a big walkbehind drum sander and sanded the deck back to bare timber. I put 3 liberal coats of Cetol Deck on at it looked great. (90% of my top deck is under roof line and 10% is fully exposed. after some 6-9 months I noticed the part fully exposed was starting to crack and peel. Being high gloss it is also very slippery when wet. I still had another deck to do below on the bottom deck around my pool. It was very weathered and gray. No way was I going to use Sikkens on it as it is too hard to walk on around a pool when wet and would be fully sun exposed. I also had the wretched dome headed twist nail. The deck was spotted gum super deck size.
I went to 6 stores and asked how else I could solve my problem . The nails were a major hindrance as they weren't EVER to be touched or punched and yet nearly everty product wanted me to punch and sand before coating. The only product that didn't was Flood Spa&Deck. I had never heard of a water based acyrlic for deck coating as my brain was truly brainwashed to believing oil was the only answer.
Flood wanted me to believe I could use Powerlift,Spa&Deck prep and a water blaster. To say I was very sceptical was an understatement. I literally ran out of options and just went for it. I couldn't believe you could apply a decking product to wet timber. Well the outcome was very pleasing. Fairly simple to do and noy as slippery, dried in 15 minutes. What about longevity. That 3 coats lasted some 15 months in full sun before a recoating was needed. After some 30 years of highschool teaching I decided to become a outdoor timber resoration tradie. After 4 solid years and over 150 decks later I have seen a lot and heard a lot of upset people.

I am the first to agree that Spa&Deck might not look as great as other products . But I think it is one of the best wearing coatings if exposed heavily to the sun.Doesn't crack ,blister or peel. It coats and recoats easily,quickly,little to no smell ,dries qicklyand cleans up with just some fresh water. In preparation I sand every piece of wood I am working on and if it has dome headed nails they get punched. After sanding I clean using sodium percarbonate,oxalic acid and scrub with a Rotowash scrubbing machine.
They make 6 colours in the product and my personal preference is Jarrah. I can't stand natural as in my opinion is too yellow . I havn;t used it on any decks. Redwood is too red,cedar a bit too orange. Merbau-Kwila not as orange. Jarrah a fairly pleasing red-brown and sedona is really walnut brown.
Whilst coating for those homeowners who want to do the future recoats on their own I can generally have them confident in its application issues and techniques in about 10 minutes.

As I said in earlier posting probably more people will bag it than like it. I am at the coal face everyday with hard working people who have a budget and want the best outcome. I try to create the best result I can and hopefully avoid calls of complaint. I can honestly say I receive very few calls from upset clients.
Ironically I do keep Sikkens Cetol deck on my timber handrails,timber dining table&Chairs and on several decking fence screens. I like it better than Spa&Deck on those items. It isn;t a major hassle to recoat them every 18-24 months as they are out of direct sunlight and I like the look.
Not sure if I have helped in anyway?

JimJ restore-a-deck.com.au