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Wire balustrade on steel posts

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  1. #1
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    Default Wire balustrade on steel posts

    Hi All,
    I am looking for some advice regarding balustrade for my proposed deck.
    At this stage my deck will be attached to the rear of the house. (Full brick house), 4000 X 5000mm with a landing of approx 1000mm with a staircase attached. The highest point of the deck is approx 1600mm of the ground and the lowest point about 1100mm. fficeffice" /><O></O>
    The deck will be constructed using 100x100mm Duragal posts through to a pergola. with my bearers and joists in timber as well as handrails.<O></O>
    I have searched through many posts but have not come across anything regarding cabling through gal posts.
    So my questions are -
    Best way to attach saddles to the posts? I can only think of pop rivets is there any other method?
    Is the risk of drilling all these hole in the gal posts going to rapidly increase the onset of any corrosion or rust, how can this be minimized?.<O></O>
    I have attached a rough layout of the deck. Post spacing for the majority is about 2000mm .
    My last resort would be to return back to timber balustrade

    Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated,
    Thanks
    Anthony <O></O>
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deck-post-layout.jpg  

  2. #2
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    2000 mm is way to far apart for posts, have been having lots of dramas with local councils over deflection with wires.
    Have found posts @ 1300mm and wires @ 80mm centers works for most.
    You could use threaded eye bolts thru posts but saddles would be fine

  3. #3
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    Saddles to post I would just use self drilling teck screws.

    Intermediate posts at 1000mm intervals gets around the deflection issues.

    Miami Stainless is one company that comes to mind. $80-90 per.








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  4. #4
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    Biggest issue is threading the wire through the holes, difficult when the holes are 100mm apart. Don't worry about the rust, not a significant issue. Miami stainless is good.

    I've used pop rivets to attach the saddles and they work well, just make sue they are stainless

    Pulse

  5. #5
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    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the replies. I have had a look at the Miami website and it is pretty informative. It does look like that I will require an intermediate post in between my posts. I am not to keen on round posts when everything else in the deck is square or rectangular so I would have to be the flat type or custom made square tubes.

    Has anybody used the Nutsert Swage system or the Tensinoer swage system ?

    Thanks

    Anthony

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    Hi there...2 month later, I wonder if there is still some interest.

    I am about to replace a treated pine/lattice balaustrade with hardwood rail and horizontal wire rope SS.
    The building code changed a few times in the last 3 years and has hopefully settled at the following measurements.

    BUILDING CODE. There is a national buidling code that relates to the use of wire for balustrading. 3.2mm cable is by far the most common size used so the following relates to this cable only.
    Basically if you need to comply to the code and you are looking at hand swaging then the strands are a maximum 60mm apart and posts can be up to 2.5 metres apart. Hydraullically swaged assemblies can be 100mm apart if your posts are less than a metre apart or 80mm apart if your posts are less than 2 metres apart. Divide the distance underneath your handrail to the deck by 60, 80 or 100 and round down to determine how many strands you need.
    If your deck is less than a metre off the ground you do not need to comply to this as the code does not require any handrail for decks at this height so you can have as many strands as you like. If your deck is more than 4 metres off the ground then balustrading must be vertical.
    If you have ANY questions please feel free to get in contact and we will endevour to help you out.
    Please note that the building code changes regularly and some councils may have their own requirements so it is very important, if you will be seeking council approval, that you check with council for current requirements before proceeding.
    From Balustrading & Handrails Stainless Steel & Stainless Steel Wire
    Marc.


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    and that's your own self.

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  7. #7
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    Hi ,

    Thanks for the reply, I have recently received all my plans back from council and they have made some alterations to my plans regarding Screening. I know have to screen the side in red and also the staircase end . My neighbour has no objections to the deck as his house is higher than mine and his balcony is at the back of his house overlooking my yard, yet council states that that is the side which needs to be screened. I don't mind screening the deck but the staircase will look ridiculous with a 1 meter screen on it.

    Because I will now be screen the left side I will not need any balustrading on that side as I would prefer to screen the whole 1800 up the deck.

    What are the options for screening? I am thinking of using decking , are there any minimum requirements for the gaps in between the decking for screening?

    As far as my balustrade goes when I submitted the plans to council I had only included vertical timber balustrade, I think I have since changed my mind several times, Today I looked at aluminum powder coated balustrade similar to pool fencing, I cane have it custom made to bolt straight under my 90 X 45 hand rail as far as pricing it is similar to the wire balustrade approx $70-100 per meter.

    A question for anybody out there that knows the balustrade codes, what are the minimum gaps required if using timber for horizontal balustrade. I have looked in Staines manual but it only gives the span details for the rails no gap distances for vertical and horizontal . I know the distances for wire and steel balustrade .

    Thanks

    Anthony

    Should be starting soon so will post some pics.

    The below pic is of the back of the house the deck will be level with the back door
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deck-20post-20layout.jpg   p1000974.jpg  

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    Hi Anthony,

    Apologies if this post is a little late, but the current BCA regulations state a minimum spacing of 75 mm for wire balustrading, or for any balustrading for that matter. Ive just submitted my deck plans, and apparently council comes round with a ball 75 mm in diameter and tries to poke it through gaps in the balustrade.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPotatohead View Post
    Hi Anthony,

    Apologies if this post is a little late, but the current BCA regulations state a minimum spacing of 75 mm for wire balustrading, or for any balustrading for that matter. Ive just submitted my deck plans, and apparently council comes round with a ball 75 mm in diameter and tries to poke it through gaps in the balustrade.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Pete
    Hi Pete, I don't have access to the BCA online but I think its more complicated than that, see this link. Local councils sometimes have there own interpretations or rules and it seems like this is one area that has been revised every year almost.

    Cheers
    Pulse

  10. #10
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    BCA doesn't allow for local interpretation of rules - although some council staff would have you think that. Main issue for this stuff for DIYers is the different rules for deck heights below and above 1m. Below 1m you are pretty much free to do what you like, but good practice means best to follow wire spacing for the higher deck rules. Especially the need to be safe for children - so 80-100mm so a small head can't get through then choke or otherwise get stuck.
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

  11. #11
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    I am always amazed at the answers one can get when asking a simple question.

    The guy is builindg a deck that is higher than one meter. So pointing out that if he is under one meter he does not need to adhere to the rules is pointless.

    The rules are outlined here:
    There is a national buidling code that relates to the use of wire for balustrading. 3.2mm cable is by far the most common size used so the following relates to this cable only.
    Basically if you need to comply to the code and you are looking at hand swaging then the strands are a maximum 60mm apart and posts can be up to 2.5 metres apart. Hydraullically swaged assemblies can be 100mm apart if your posts are less than a metre apart or 80mm apart if your posts are less than 2 metres apart. Divide the distance underneath your handrail to the deck by 60, 80 or 100 and round down to determine how many strands you need.

    If you think you can contribute, expand, correct the above rules, please do so or tell us how you would do it. Note that depending how you join the wires if manually or hydraulically the spacing changes. The tradesman can supply information as to how they join (swag) the wires for us the plebs to get informed.
    Also note that if you are an amateur or a tradesman the rules are the same.
    Practical advise people, not intellectual gymnastics !!
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  12. #12
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    mmm it seems Marc got out of the wrong side of the bed today. Also seems to miss that not all posts are directed at the original poster, but sometimes it's worth correcting mistaken notions in other posts.

    It's just a few words mate - they can be read quickly and used or simply ignored . . . reader's choice. I'd rather people give info they already know (and I'd rather be told twice than get things wrong) than err on the side of ignorance. But that's just me . . .
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

  13. #13
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    Marc's link was barely okay. It makes mentions to distances etc, but fails to mention TENSION and/or DEFLECTION.

    Google came up with 2 MUCH better. both with the 2 tables from BCA. Miami has it on the page, Allthingsstainless has them as PDF's

    In short look at 7x7 3.0mm stainless


    Miami Stainless - Wire Balustrade Regulations

    Balustrade Regulations for Wire Rope Balustrades@-@All Things Stainless Steel

  14. #14
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloss View Post
    mmm it seems Marc got out of the wrong side of the bed today. Also seems to miss that not all posts are directed at the original poster, but sometimes it's worth correcting mistaken notions in other posts.

    It's just a few words mate - they can be read quickly and used or simply ignored . . . reader's choice. I'd rather people give info they already know (and I'd rather be told twice than get things wrong) than err on the side of ignorance. But that's just me . . .
    Yes, your post is a perfect example of why I was winging. Lack of practical advise. Nothing I can use.
    But that is just me.
    Figures, numbers, practical tips from someone that has done it before. Do you buy or you rent the tool for joining the wires? Where do you buy wires post at a good price? Have you done it before? What are your suggestion about spacing according to dimensions given above? How do you anchor the metal post to a wooden frame? Do you have corrosion problems when drilling galvanised post? Is it worthwhile to order the wires already swaged? Etc, etc, etc

    PS
    If someone asked me for a recipe for a ricotta cake, or a chicken curry, I would not post them a you tube link, rather give them my advise based on personal experience. That is what is appreciated, Anyone can Google.
    But that is just me.....
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  15. #15
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    Marc,
    You are so right, my apologies I should have cut and pasted from the websites, rather than supplying the link. (Except tables don't copy well)


    How to drill attach etc, to the post was already answered.

    Swag hand or hydraulic, depends on availability, buy or hire.depends on price. How much did I pay for my wire, again not relavent as a mate work at the hardware and I got VERY cheap.


    I could also go on and recount how I did my wires, except that was about 6 years ago, when there were no specific regs for wires, and only the 125mm ball test, wonderful story but completely outdated.
    This part did lead into my links as it would be pointless following the part you posted, which is a basic summary if the council inspector came over, and asked "How did you test the tension?"

    Your original post contained a basic summary and makes no mention that spacing can be 100mm apart, if tensioned correctly, because for me 60mm spacing may as well have chicken wire

  16. #16
    1K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Marc,
    You are so right, my apologies I should have cut and pasted from the websites, rather than supplying the link. (Except tables don't copy well)
    No mate, that's not it, I wsa interested in people experience and personal tips, but never mind....
    Your original post contained a basic summary and makes no mention that spacing can be 100mm apart, if tensioned correctly, because for me 60mm spacing may as well have chicken wire
    So tensioning correctly and you can space to 100 mm. I suppose tension can be tested by the sound the wire makes when plucked. If it is a C you are good, if and F, no good.
    The Miami table seems to favour 80 mm spacing, consistent with the spacing for baby cots if I remember correctly.
    Do you need to drill the post or they come pre-drilled?
    Any corrosion issues?
    Marc.


    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving,
    and that's your own self.

    Aldous Huxley



  17. #17
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    Reading the specs in theory 100mm possible, but may need to be hydraulically swaged. (I assume it is stronger) Wouldn't have a clue how to test tension.

    When mine was done several years ago (Before wire specific regs) the building inspector had a look, asked the spacing and gave a couple of wire a tap.

    Most spacing relate to 125mm ball being able to fit through i.e. a kid squeezing through and falling down, as apposed to getting stuck in a cot

    I ahve only had to thread through timber posts, but the wire is pretty sturdy and should be able to line it up easily enough..

    I did have saddles on some blue primed posts. normal pop rivets no issues.

    Next bit I'm not 100% on but some food for thought.

    Reading one earlier post stated to ensure they are stainless rivets. Except that stainless and galv steel are at either ends of the galvanic series. i.e. stainless attached to galv will cause the galv to corrode (Although the small amount of stainless woudl spread the corrosion across a larger area of the steel. Probably would be better to go for a more similar rivet (Galvanically speaking) such as aluminium.


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