Thread: studs and noggins

I am putting up studs and noggins (steel) for my steel home in Avondale near Bundaberg.
I am told to use short lengths of "trimangle" to connect the noggin to the closed end of the stud.

I extended the length of each noggin then bent it at 45 degrees to form a "dog ear" and used that method to fasten the noggin to the stud.

Is this acceptable ?

Why are you using noggins at all? Bracing sections of steel framed walls walls need special attention, but on normal height walls (2.4m) noggins are not needed.

Originally Posted by pr2jd2b

... of each noggin then bent it at 45 degrees to form a "dog ear" and used that method to fasten the noggin to the stud.

Shouldn't this be 90 degrees?

Originally Posted by Bloss

Why are you using noggins at all? Bracing sections of steel framed walls walls need special attention, but on normal height walls (2.4m) noggins are not needed.

G'day Bloss,

I we're of the same vintage and did our trade upbringing in different parts of the country. Now we tend to agree on most posts we comment on but on this occassion I have to disagree with "noggins are not needed". My training was for noggins at 600 centres which it cost more in materials and time but gives a lot stronger structure and will assist in preventing that drummy'hollow sound when the walls get knocked. But I spose each to their own

In my opinion need them at 1210 mm centers at least for sheeting walls

Nah, can't agree (but learnt the old way when we had real ceiling heights too - 9ft!), but then I would have us all move to what is called advanced framing which uses 150x35 studs (to hold min. R3.5 batts), no noggins, structural bracing at corners full insulation board cover, no external brickwork and on it goes - and using Californian Building 2008 Regulations (effective 2009) timber construction http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/bsc/...green_code.pdf. Cheaper to building faster, more energy efficient and stronger. The full Code is here: http://www.bsc.ca.gov/title_24/t24_2007tried.htm

Not suggesting this is you of course, but I find it amusing that so many tradies who have adopted screwdrivers and adhesives and a whole bunch of technologies and materials that are so so different from what was used even 10 or 15 years ago still build houses that a chippy from 100 years ago would recognise as being little different to what they were building.

For example we know that brick veneer is just so not the right way to build and many have known that for 50 years, certainly 20 years it has been widely known, yet that's what we still mainly build in Australia. Architects and designers know how to design and build a thermally efficient house that in most places in Australia will need no summer cooling and little if any winter heating - and yet few are built that way even though it can be done at the same cost and with as much imaginative design as we now have (more, probably).

Why - inertia - nearly all of dislike change and we get comfortable and feel good by doing what we know how to do and we do not like being 'different'.

How's that for a long answer to a short comment!!

See the attached primer on advanced framing from 2005. An American document, but the principles are used in UK and EU too. It will takes some time, but expect BCA to head this way sooner than later. I have been involved in houses built this way and it is a constant battle of course as they are not straightforward for the certifiers!

Just read/skimmed through the 2005 Framing document and found it interesting with the use of 1" foam (R 5) sheeting on the external walls.

A couple of years ago I demolished our old 1950's brick and tile house and rebuilt a new house. The new house is totally steelframed and I clad the external walls using Rmax 75mm foam sheeting and tiled and rendered, it has worked well.

Originally Posted by rod1949

Just read/skimmed through the 2005 Framing document and found it interesting with the use of 1" foam (R 5) sheeting on the external walls.

A couple of years ago I demolished our old 1950's brick and tile house and rebuilt a new house. The new house is totally steelframed and I clad the external walls using Rmax 75mm foam sheeting and tiled and rendered, it has worked well.

That's the go. I helped my mate with his last year - he has 100mm foam board - it's a gem of house to live in - all year round never moves away from 17-27 inside and very evenly too - with no cooling except ceiling fans and a very efficient slow combustion stove for winter nights (he lives on a property where -10 overnight is common in July/August).

Originally Posted by rod1949

Shouldn't this be 90 degrees?

You're right, should be 90 degrees, thanks

Agree with bloss. The industry in this country needs a massive shake up. I would totally ban brick veneer construction if I had my way. With so many new technologies on the market why is the Australian building industry so unwilling to change. Mind you , the local councils and certifiers do nothing to encourage anything different. If something is even slightly away from the norm, alarm bells ring, the owner gets snowed down with red tape and it becomes all too hard.

OK Bloss query for you to answer if you want.

bottom and top plates of 140*45mm and staggered studs of 70*35mm at what spacing?? assuming fully clad with eco ply ( OSB) or 7mm brace ply.

I have though that with breather foil on the outside and 19mm battens and steel cladding this would be ideal for our conditions of massive summer heat and moderate winter cold.