Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

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  1. #1
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Default Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    So it's about time I started my own go to whoa.

    Background info

    We bought our place back in 2009, semi detached Californian bungalow, mortgaged to the hilt but got a good price for the house due to the GFC. Location is perfect for us so we have no desire to move however house is only 80m2, master bedroom, small bedroom, bathroom, open living/dining and kitchenette. It's really only suitable for a couple and with two kids now and three of us sharing one bed it's getting tight! Block size is 160m2 so no room to extend, only option is to build up.

    Pics of the house when we bought it:

    1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg5.jpg6.jpg7.jpg


    Our neighbours have done an attic conversion and our place also came with approval to do an attic conversion. The approved plans would add one extra bedroom but we would still be left with our kitchenette and one bathroom so I was never really that excited by doing this. With the high pitch of the roof we have lots of space upstairs.

    dscf6872.jpg

    Decided to go back to the drawing board, spent a long time trying to work two bedrooms in under the existing roof structure but it just wasn't going to work. One of the rooms wouldn't comply with BCA and they would both be very tiny bedrooms. Decided in the end to chance our arm and try and get approval to raise the roof. It was a long shot as lots of these don't get thorough, particularly when you are dealing with semi-detached houses however following many iterations of the design we managed to get council approval in March of this year. I did all the drawings and council submissions myself. I'm an engineer (electronic) so have had some previous CAD experience so the transition to architectural drawings was tricky but not unmanageable.

    Here is our new design, house will have 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and full kitchen. It will shift the house out of the couples market and make it a proper family home.

    There were lots of constraints from the council that had to be taken into consideration, especially because we are a semi.
    - Couldn't raise the overall height of the building
    - Roof pitches most remain consistent
    - Can't modify the first 1/3 of the building, all windows/roof extension must be in back 2/3rds.

    Ground floor

    Knock out walls at rear, install sliding/stacking doors, new kitchen and new deck full width of house
    selection_217.png


    With all the walls knocked out we will have a large open plan area for the kitchen which will open out onto the deck. Stairs will go up against the party wall.
    option-3-2.jpgoption-3-1.jpg


    First floor

    Two bedrooms + Bathroom
    selection_218.png

    All three rooms will have velux roof windows, the largest (M08) to maximise light. The back north facing room will have a small balcony and bi-fold doors.

    back-room.jpg

    The front southerly bedroom will have windows in the gable to catch as much light as possible. This room is a weird L shape but it was a compromise we had to make.
    front-bedroom.jpg

    Elevations
    selection_219.pngselection_220.pngselection_221.pngselection_222.png

    3d views
    selection_223.pngselection_224.png


    In summary work required will be:

    Upper level (2 bed + one bath)
    New timber floors both levels
    Demolish ground floor walls
    New kitchen
    Sliding/stacking doors at back
    New deck

    Timing
    This will be a slow project, I'm anticipating about 2 years to get everything done. Once the building is scaffolded we will throw some resources at it and get the upstairs watertight as quickly as possible. The important thing here will be finding a good chippy to get the structure up quickly and efficiently. I need to try and prevent any damage to the 100 year old ornate ceilings on the ground floor.

    At this stage I have:

    Owner builder course - done
    White card - done
    Funds - 50%
    DA Approval - Done
    Structural Engineering - Underway now
    Construction Cert - Sept 13

    Although not a huge project for the experienced builder this will be a reasonable challenge for me to pull off and I'm very excited about getting stuck in.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails kitchen-existing.jpg  

  2. #2
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    First job after we moved in was to create a bit of space out the back by getting rid of the external laundry and 10 ton of blue metal the previous owners had dumped down to conceal everything.

    The easy part

    dscf4991.jpgdscf5001.jpgdscf5008.jpg

    Blue metal gone - The existing timber deck posts were just sitting directly on the concrete below so I had to jack up the deck and install stirrups and footings.
    dscf5024.jpgdscf5030.jpg

    Getting rid of the slab(s) was terrible, seems like there were three different structures in this corner over the years and in some places it was up to 300 thick of tiles, concrete and this bitumen? stuff.

    dscf5037.jpg

    Finally gone all gone and also cut a shelf out of the sandstone to make sure the garden would be level
    dscf5603.jpg

    Soil delivered

    dscf5692.jpg

    Couple of hours after this it started raining heavily, the word nightmare does not describe how bad it was shovelling mud off the road until 1am, followed by a couple of days of fear waiting for a call from the council after the drains at the bottom of the hill got blocked. I had no choice but to shovel it all over the front wall, ha ha

    dscf5718.jpg

    All level and grass down

    dscf5975.jpgdscf5985.jpgdscf5993.jpgdscf6001.jpgdscf6002.jpgdscf6007.jpgdscf6013.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dscf5084.jpg   dscf6015.jpg  

  3. #3
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Extended the fence to cover the gap, didn't have many options here. Digging post holes in solid sandstone = no fun

    dscf7385.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Next we replaced the fence on the other side, the new fence is blackbutt with red river gum posts. Mainly done by my neighbour but I helped dig the holes......

    dscf7389.jpgimag0770.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Next was to replace the front fence and side gate



    imag0927.jpgimag0933.jpg

    2013-03-23-18.40.52.jpgdscf8476.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imag0933.jpg   imag0927.jpg  

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Thanks to Rod Dyson I fixed up all the internal cracking.

    dscf8316.jpgdscf8320.jpgdscf8322.jpg

    Also I couldn't live with the old kitchen so I ripped it all out, right back to the joists and installed a temporary kitchen for now until we get further down the reno path

    http://www.renovateforum.com/f176/fi...17/#post884631

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Not long after putting all the grass down I had to rip it all up from the front and side as we had a big problem with water leaking in under the house during heavy rain. Had to dig down to the foundations, install an agi and tank the walls. Took the opportunity to use up some old sandstone blocks for steps and also replace the old plumbing.

    dscf7980.jpgdscf7983.jpgimag0656.jpgimag0668.jpgz.jpg

  8. #8
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    Digging post holes in solid sandstone = no fun

    Yeah after hiring a jackhammer (a really heavy hire bugger of a thing) I promptly went out and bought a lighter (but still capable) Makita unit. A wise purchase as I have periodical reefs of sandstone on the block. So I feel your pain!!!!!
    When I die, bury me in the hardware store

  9. #9
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Ok time for an update. All the engineering design is complete and I have applied for a construction certificate. I need to put in 4 steel beams, the largest is a 6.1m 250UB31 that will need to go right at the back of the house. I don't really have crane access (except from the neighbours garden) so this is going to be pain to get in. The engineer recommend I stitch one of the larger settlement cracks so I tackled that earlier this week, pretty straight forward procedure, rake out mortar and clean, inject bead of epoxy, insert helibar and then top off with epoxy. The epoxy cures to 80mpa and bonds to the bricks, securing both sides of the crack together.

    1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg

    It's a bit messy but not too concerned as this wall will be battened and plasterboarded.

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Next job was to cut up the old water tank with a tin snips and get it out through a hole in the roof.

    1.jpg2.jpg

    Next I had someone come in and vacuum out the roof space, this was a nasty job, I felt sorry for him spending 5 hours up there but it needed to be done.

    Before
    3.jpg

    After
    4.jpg5.jpg

    I thought it would be a good idea to get a few sheets of yellow tongue in while I had a hole in the roof, I underestimated how big a hole I would need and after the sheets were delivered I had no choice but to hack into the roof. I also didn't know they were 45kg each, fun couple of hours on my own I got 5 sheets in so at least I have a nice stable surface to work off.

    6.jpg7.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    After some additional queries from the council we now officially have our construction certificate

    Scaffolding purchased and delivered, the cost to hire scaffolding in Sydney is so expensive it was cheaper to buy new.

    img_20131011_182340.jpgimg_20131011_182322.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Most of the scaffolding is up now



    And all my steel has been delivered, not much space here so it's scattered everywhere including the street.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20131103_120039.jpg   img_20131103_115949.jpg   img_20131103_115953.jpg   img_20131103_120051.jpg  

  13. #13
    Slow but rough Uncle Bob's Avatar
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    Looks like a real big job going on there Paddyjoy!
    Thanks for the pics, interesting stuff.

  14. #14
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Looks like a real big job going on there Paddyjoy!
    Thanks for the pics, interesting stuff.
    Thanks Bob!

    Couple of stressful hours this morning getting the steel beams into the roof space, I only had 80cm of clearance between the existing ceiling and roof hip so it was a bit tricky. I will need to manually manoeuvre the larger beam in the last bit by hand.

    photo0027.jpgphoto0028.jpgphoto0029.jpg

    I had to use the neighbours driveway as I have no access, they are now saying the crane damaged the concrete so that's the next issue to deal with

  15. #15
    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    Bloody wankers
    As if a tracked crane like that can damage a crappy old slab
    But would have been smart to put ply under it just in case
    tell them to go jam it and protend it didn't happen

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Originally they wanted the driveway resurfaced because they claimed the tracks did this

    photo0032.jpg

    I explained the rubber tracks couldn't do this and have photo's to show that the driveway was in this condition before.

    They conceded and now reckon that the weight of the crane caused a small section of the concrete to sink, blind freddy could tell you that this indentation happened 30 years ago when the slab was poured and some idiot parked on it before it had cured.

    photo0031.jpg

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    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    Reckon the average family car would weigh more than that crane and a car has only 4 wheels that crane has bigger contact area

  18. #18
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    The issue with the driveway has gone away after I produced some photos from 3 years ago that showed the damage was already there! Good thing I had them!

    Been a busy few days, have moved all the beams into position, levelled them off and this morning I had a mobile welder come and weld them all together. Starting to take shape now.

    img_20131116_115812.jpgimg_20131116_115653.jpg

    He also chamfered the end of the big UB so it would ft under the roof tiles.

    img_20131116_105333.jpg

  19. #19
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Had some issues with levels this week, when I originally levelled all my steel beams I used the outside walls as a reference. I recently picked up a laser level and to my horror discovered that while everything was level in one of the bedrooms the ground floor ceiling joists were 35mm higher than every other room of the house. Basically what they had done was installed one of the hanging beams too high so the ceiling bowed upwards in the centre of the room. This meant that there wouldn't be enough clearance to run the first floor floor joists. Long story short I had to raise all the beams up 35mm, was a pain because they were all welded together but at least it is done now.

    Moving on, LVL's for the floor joists delivered yesterday morning, 230m of 170x45 hyspan. Most pieces are 10.2m long as I wanted to keep the joists continuous along the full length of the house.
    img_20131130_090647.jpg

    Each piece is about 50kg so not too hard to lift but they are pretty awkward to move around by yourself. Took me most of the day to get them all up into the roof space through a hole in the front of the house.
    img_20131130_180421.jpgimg_20131130_182259.jpg

    All in
    img_20131201_182210.jpg

    Over the next few weeks I'll try and get most of the floor framed. With the roof struts I won't be able to get all the joists down but will see how I go.

  20. #20
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    Quite a project you guys are up to. Looking good though!

  21. #21
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    Been really busy over the last few weeks with day job and family stuff so not a huge amount of progress. I have about 7 joists in now and should most of the rest in over xmas.

    img_20131221_174646.jpg

    Had some issues with levels again, most of the ceiling joists are 90x45 however for some reason some of the are 110x45, which means they interfere with the new floor joists. For example you can see the ceiling joist in the foreground is ok but the one in the rear is a few cm's taller.

    img_20131221_162702.jpg

    To get around it I have had to notch out the top of these taller ceiling joists.

    img_20131221_162720.jpgimg_20131221_162739.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Ok time for an update, even though I had some time off over xmas I didn't get much done. With the hot weather working in the roof space was unbearable, with no insulation or ventilation the temperature up there was terrible. That combined with family stuff meant slow progress however it's been a bit cooler here in Sydney over the last two weeks so I have made some progress.

    Fixing plate installed to rear beam
    img_20131226_180029.jpgimg_20131226_180041.jpg

    I could then finish off the joists for the back section
    img_20140105_160315.jpg

    Most of the joists are in by this stage except for the double outside joist and joist that will block my manhole access
    dsc_0030.jpg

  23. #23
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Monday I tackled the double outside joist, this was a bit of a milestone as I passed the point of no return. Up until now we could have walked away from the project but I have now hacked up the existing roof so no going back

    First step was to strip off the tiles
    dsc_0051.jpg
    Remove guttering, facsia, etc...
    dsc_0052.jpg
    Support rafters and cut back to allow space for joists
    dsc_0055.jpg

    Over the next few evenings I'll get this last joist in

    Next steps:

    - Tidy up floor framing and replace/install hanging beams
    - Council inspection of floor framing
    - Electrician to rough in cables for powerpoints
    - Soundbatts between joists
    - yellow tongue

    After all above is finished I can then start planning removing the roof and doing the wall and roof framing. I would really prefer this to be done by a professional carpenter but I'm finding it so hard to find anyone in sydney. I have had close to 20 different individuals/companies verbally tell me they would quote the work but after seeing the plans nobody wants to do it. I have only managed to get one quote and that was $12k for labour only to frame the walls and roof

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    Whats the story with no-one wanting to do the job?

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Not sure, the last guy I had in on Saturday said it is too fiddly for him, fair enough maybe it is a bit tricky with all the beams. If you are only getting paid for labour then there's not much incentive there I suppose. I imagine there is lots of work available in the city at the moment where chippies can do larger jobs, supply materials, scaffolding etc and make some extra money on the markup. If push comes to shove I will have to do it myself however it will be very challenging for me, especially with the stress of having no roof on the house and trying to keep the water out.

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    Made a big decision last week and we decided we are going to slate the roof. Originally we ruled this out due to cost (best quote we got for supply and install was 28k, $250/m2) but we have bought some Chinese slate that's cheaper than boral roof tiles, they are a light grey colour. Fingers crossed they won't fade.

    uploadfromtaptalk1392156403031.jpg

    Now I just have the small task of moving them all into the garden by hand from the neighbours car park. This is the fun of renovating a property in the city with no driveway or crane access.
    uploadfromtaptalk1392156482840.jpg

  27. #27
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Been delayed a bit with the wet weather but have finally moved all the slate into our 20m2 garden, there's almost more slate than grass now.

    dsc_0117.jpgdsc_0119.jpg
    Electrician has also been over to put down the cables for first floor power points. I would have thought these cables would have been secured to the joists but I guess it's not required in between floors.
    dsc_0120.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    Electrician has also been over to put down the cables for first floor power points. I would have thought these cables would have been secured to the joists but I guess it's not required in between floors.
    I also would have have thought clip cables where possible within reason.Has the appearance of just another lazy tradesman or someone in a hurry.

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    Quote Originally Posted by RodEye View Post
    Has the appearance of just another lazy tradesman or someone in a hurry.
    Yes maybe, I'll clip the cables myself as I don't like them lying on the plaster. If i ever need to cut a hole in the ceiling below I could potentially hit a cable.

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    Default Re: Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    Pretty much finished the floor framing now and have booked the council in for an inspection on Thursday. Feeling a bit nervous about the inspection as I have no idea how much detail they will want to go into. Can anyone provide any insight into this?

    Are they going to ask me to justify every choice of hanger/fixing/fastener or is it more of a high level look for anything that breaches standards/BCA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    Pretty much finished the floor framing now and have booked the council in for an inspection on Thursday. Feeling a bit nervous about the inspection as I have no idea how much detail they will want to go into. Can anyone provide any insight into this?

    Are they going to ask me to justify every choice of hanger/fixing/fastener or is it more of a high level look for anything that breaches standards/BCA?
    you should have supplied details of timber sizes, grades, spans, etc, if they don't have the details already they could be a bit picky, best to be on top of those details to separate yourself from the novices & build a rapport with the inspector showing him your trying to do the right thing.
    regards inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    you should have supplied details of timber sizes, grades, spans, etc, if they don't have the details already they could be a bit picky, best to be on top of those details to separate yourself from the novices & build a rapport with the inspector showing him your trying to do the right thing.
    regards inter
    Thanks they should have all that already from the engineering drawings I supplied them but I'll make sure I have a copy printed out here in case.

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    Slow but rough Uncle Bob's Avatar
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    I pity you having to move all that slate by hand mate. Things are coming along by the looks of it.
    That front fence is looking superb by the way

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    Default Re: Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I pity you having to move all that slate by hand mate. Things are coming along by the looks of it.
    That front fence is looking superb by the way
    Thanks Bob, the only issue I have had with the fence is that the light color means it gets really badly stained by the nearby wattle tree when it's in bloom. Didn't see that coming.

    Going to be fun getting the slate up onto the roof. Might have to hire a conveyor if the budget allows it.

  35. #35
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Building inspector was here today, all good "proceed to roof framing", u beauty....

    report.jpg

    Was a pretty thorough inspection, was here for about 40 minutes and checked all the major beams etc and the following things at random points.

    - numbers of nails in hangers
    - joists sitting in bottom of hangers
    - lamination of double joists
    - appropriate fixing of double joists to bearers
    - checked if nuts were tight on bolts
    - joist spacing

    and a number of other things I can't remember now!

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    Congratulations. All your worrying and preparation paid off. Have a frosty one to celebrate and keep the pictures coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowMick View Post
    Congratulations. All your worrying and preparation paid off. Have a frosty one to celebrate and keep the pictures coming.
    Thanks Mick I have had a renovation free weekend to recover!

    Managed to get a couple more quotes for the framing, a large company quoted me $16k including materials, 4-5 days to complete. I decided to give them the go ahead but when they found out we wanted to keep the existing ceilings and didn't wanted them to substitute the 170x45 LVL rafters with 240x45 0regon the price went up to $22k, booooo

    Got another one for $21k for labour, 2 carpenters + labourer for 4-5 weeks (not days), material, tarps etc all extra...

    I actually noticed today that someone near me is doing a similar project, would you consider the below framing to be:

    a) perfectly acceptable
    b) bit sloppy but ok
    c) no good

    roof.jpg
    roof2.jpg

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    I actually noticed today that someone near me is doing a similar project, would you consider the below framing to be:

    a) perfectly acceptable
    b) bit sloppy but ok
    c) no good


    d) What on earth is that?

  39. #39
    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    Default Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

    Looks s / house
    No clue wat top plates for


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuckCommander View Post
    d) What on earth is that?
    Ha, here is the full picture

    roof3.jpg

  41. #41
    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    After spending the day replacing the hanging beams that have become detached from the ceiling joists, I lost my footing and slipped onto the ceiling, so p*ssed off

    damaged-ceiling.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    After spending the day replacing the hanging beams that have become detached from the ceiling joists, I lost my footing and slipped onto the ceiling, so p*ssed off
    Look on the bright side. You missed the decorative moulding. I see that as a win, in spite of the inconvenience.
    I am not responsible for anything that Moondog says!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecile View Post
    Look on the bright side. You missed the decorative moulding. I see that as a win, in spite of the inconvenience.
    Thanks Cecile your right it is lucky I didn't hit the moulding, only for I managed to grab hold of a roof strut I would have gone the full way through

    Time to visit the plastering forum!

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    My heavy footedness cost a week to the schedule but it is pretty much fixed now. I gave it a go myself rather than getting a plasterer in, because the ceiling is 90 years old it pretty forgiving and I'm happy with the result. Basically took all of sat/sun and a couple of nights this week to get it done, was very fiddly.

    I replaced the full panel because I didn't want the hassle of trying to join gyprock up to the old plaster. This also meant I had to replace the long piece of timber framing the panel.

    dsc_0381.jpg

    While I was making a mess of the lounge room I decided to take the plunge and cut an access hole where the new stairs will eventually go. It was getting a bit dangerous trying to squeeze up through the old hatch in the bathroom.

    dsc_0386.jpg

  45. #45
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    Made a start on installing the acoustic sound block batts this evening. In order to make the acoustic batts stay up securely in between the new floor joists I'm installing a lower layer of cheap insulation below them. Sounds crazy but this worked out to be the cheapest and easiest option. The yellow glasswool batts are sitting between the existing ceiling joists and then the acoustic rockwool batts are running perpendicular sitting between the new floor joists.

    dsc_0388.jpg

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    1K Club Member paddyjoy's Avatar
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    Had a bit of time over easter to get stuck into the reno, wife and I have black hands now after playing with ultraset for 4 days. All the yellow tongue is down now, the sycon for the bathroom is just sitting loose as we haven't finalised the bathroom layout yet.

    dsc_0438.jpg

    Hard to visualise what it will look like with the low roof still there but basically looking in this direction the layout will be:

    Yellow lines: Bed 1 6m x 3m
    Purple: bathroom 1.8m x 3m
    Blue: Bed 2 5m x 3.1m
    Brown: Balcony 2.4m x 1m
    Red: Stairs 0.95m width

    dsc_0438_2.jpg

    Was a pretty fiddly job as we are still keeping the existing roof for now so all the struts had to be moved to allow the YT sheets to go down then moved back again to get the next sheet etc, etc... Also because the sheets need to go out to the outside joists they had to slide under the ends of the rafters.

    dsc_0435.jpg

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    Next steps will be to rip the roof off and get stuck into the framing. At this stage I have decided I'm going to give it a go myself. I can't find anyone that's really interested in doing it and I feel like I have achieved so much now that I might as well keep going.

    The roof won't come off for about 8 weeks because we are waiting for some Velux skylights to get shipped out from the UK. Velux released a new line of electric skylights in Feb this year but Velux Australia are still selling the old ones and have no plans to introduce the new Integra model here (typical). The only way to get the new models is to ship them out here by sea yourself. The shipping company are going to build a crate around them so fingers crossed they should be pretty well protected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    wife and I have black hands now after playing with ultraset for 4 days.

    Told you!

    BTW, looking good. Pretty impressive task you're tackling there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocDog View Post
    Told you!

    BTW, looking good. Pretty impressive task you're tackling there.
    Thanks it all started pretty innocent but I'm pretty far down the rabbit hole now

    My wife is a absolute legend and has spent some of the renovation budget on getting me a decent mitre saw for my birthday, my previous mitre saw I picked up at the salvos so this is a massive upgrade!

    img_20140505_212719.jpg

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    Ha. Looks familiar. Its much better than the old one I've used before. Bit of an overkill, but hey, I like toys...(oh, and the fact that it can be pushed hard against a wall is bloody useful)

    img_5869.jpg

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