Emission Trading and climate change

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  1. #11651
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Clearly nothing that penetrates your personal penumbra...
    see above!
    if only the department of defence had the ability to dodge the enemy half as fast as you fellows can dodge a question, wars would be over in minutes!
    regards inter

  2. #11652
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    "All I have is what is available to everybody, there is nothing to prove or answer! The known data clearly shows no correlation between CO2 & the past climate, how about you show us your intelligence & provide something that no other person or institution has been able to do as yet so far, which is explain why CO2 concentrations are now linked intimately, yet never were in the past! You can try to twist & connive the debate away from you inability to provide theses explanations!"
    Go your hardest!
    regards inter
    You are asking someone to prove a point when the original statement was your graph didn't support your conclusion, no wonder you have without exception proven your statements are nothing more than hot air. It's like dealing with dense fog, nothing can be seen nothing can be identified.

  3. #11653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Will let you know when I hear what they are up to next. (Save the bees? ... who knows!)
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    One presumes you mean honey bees, one of thousands of bee species, but still economically and agriculturally important, and one that has a unique habit of forming colonies or swarms.

    Think about it: Spray millions of hectares with systemic insecticide (which is taken in by the plant and remains active inside the plant), bees collect the nectar (with insecticide inside), feed it to the pupae, the pupae become sick adult bees and prematurely die and the colony dies out. In some areas, 80% of commercially owned and operated bee hives have been wiped out. Who wudda thort?

    Scientists discover whats killing the bees and its worse than you thought Quartz
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Marc, what has your latest post got to do with the forum topic? Many forums ban people for off topic posts. I won't bother to answer your off topic posts in future.
    Meanwhile, back on topic, eagles are suffering as a result of climate change and the Balkan Peninsula and Turkey climate change is particularly rapid, and especially summer temperatures are expected to increase strongly.

    http://cawcr.gov.au/staff/lec/Emu105_1to20.pdf

    Climate change - Turkey - Climate Adaptation
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Many forums ban people for off topic posts.
    It seems to me that John2b has run it off topic chasing the birds and bees

    In case you missed it, the topic is Emission Trading.

  4. #11654
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    Get with it! Keep up! We are long past that pathetic nonsense...
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  5. #11655
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    You are asking someone to prove a point when the original statement was your graph didn't support your conclusion, no wonder you have without exception proven your statements are nothing more than hot air. It's like dealing with dense fog, nothing can be seen nothing can be identified.
    huh! still got nothing?
    regards inter

  6. #11656
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Get with it! Keep up! We are long past that pathetic nonsense...
    thats not at all what it seems like from our side!
    regards inter

  7. #11657
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    For climate-change alarmists, the heat is on… their foreheads. Their desperation is starting to bead up and roll into their collars like flop sweat. California Gov. Jerry Brown’s absurd contention that LAX Airport is going to be turned into a bathtub because of climate change is the latest example of how know-nothings in the media, entertainment and politics are reaching for ever more questionable arguments...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmit...ing-desperate/

    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  8. #11658
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    thats not at all what it seems like from our side!
    regards inter
    Yeah but you take it all too seriously...that doesn't count.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  9. #11659
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    Er, the drivel is rolling off the lips after reading the conclusion of a "social science" survey LOL.

    It is going to get harder to sell the denialist's mantra, as many of the world's top PR companies have taken a stance on not working with clients who misrepresent the science of anthropogenic climate change.

    PR Firms Take a Stand on Climate Change
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  10. #11660
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Yeah but you take it all too seriously...that doesn't count.
    thats obvious when the facts don't count for you fellows either!
    seriously you fellows are the best entertainment money can't buy!
    regards inter

  11. #11661
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Er, the drivel is rolling off the lips after reading the conclusion of a "social science" survey LOL.

    It is going to get harder to sell the denialist's mantra, as many of the world's top PR companies have taken a stance on not working with clients who misrepresent the science of anthropogenic climate change.

    PR Firms Take a Stand on Climate Change
    thats a bit rich from someone who has been evading answering some simple questions for what must be 20 pages!
    regards inter

  12. #11662
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Er, the drivel is rolling off the lips after reading the conclusion of a "social science" survey LOL.

    It is going to get harder to sell the denialist's mantra, as many of the world's top PR companies have taken a stance on not working with clients who misrepresent the science of anthropogenic climate change.

    PR Firms Take a Stand on Climate Change
    LOL they will go broke soon they wont have any clients!!
    GREAT PLASTERING TIPS AT


  13. #11663
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    If they are right, why do climate change deniers need to go to such extreme lengths such as producing counterfeit documents? Spot the fake:



    They look almost exactly the same, but that's very much on purpose. The "report" on the right, designed to look almost identical to the U.S. Government's National Climate Assessment on the left, was written by the Cato Institute—an organization founded by fossil fuel billionaire Charles Koch, with the intention of confusing the public about the real science on climate change.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  14. #11664
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    Coffee shortages caused by climate change have increased the likelihood that ground coffee has “fillers” in it like wheat, soybean, brown sugar, barley, corn, seeds, and even stick and twigs. So much for the hollow claims that a warming climate will be better for agriculture!

    Your Coffee May Have Fillers in It - TIME
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  15. #11665
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Coffee shortages caused by climate change have increased the likelihood that ground coffee has “fillers” in it like wheat, soybean, brown sugar, barley, corn, seeds, and even stick and twigs. So much for the hollow claims that a warming climate will be better for agriculture!

    Your Coffee May Have Fillers in It - TIME
    "If they are right, why do climate change deniers need to go to such extreme lengths such as producing counterfeit documents? Spot the fake:






    They look almost exactly the same, but that's very much on purpose. The "report" on the right, designed to look almost identical to the U.S. Government's National Climate Assessment on the left, was written by the Cato Institute—an organization founded by fossil fuel billionaire Charles Koch, with the intention of confusing the public about the real science on climate change."

    Well that's the most typical load of AGW garbage that you normally come out with! Devoid of facts and just plainly untrue, counterfeit & fake! And coffee shortages where demand is outstripping supply, really it seems like your trying to insult our intelligence again but I know that's not true, because it appears you are thoroughly occupied with your own being!
    regards inter

  16. #11666
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Well that's the most typical load of AGW garbage that you normally come out with!
    Thank you for your thoughtful and carefully worded response to my post. Your contribution is valuable guidance on the topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Devoid of facts
    I don't own the facts. All the facts you want are just a keyboard click away: Coffee Cup Quality | World Coffee Research

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    And coffee shortages where demand is outstripping supply
    Sure demand for coffee is growing. But the big problem is the coffee producing lands are receding due to climate change, both temperature creep and rainfall changes. Small changes in temperature affect the fruit set of many food plants, apples, cherries, kiwi fruit and coffee, for example. Coffee plants take many years to reach production, so it isn't as simply as moving up the mountains and planting more coffee. This is not news to gardeners and primary producers across Australia.

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    it seems like your trying to insult our intelligence again
    I won't take the credit for that.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  17. #11667
    3K Club Member johnc's Avatar
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    My goodness, intelligence, how can you insult something that is seldom put on display.

  18. #11668
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    WHAAAT!!!! Coffee in danger!!!!!!????????? NO WAY!!!!!!!!! Where is the local warmist church? Please please, pretty please, I'll convert straight away, even do a penitence, walk on my knees to the nearest temperature station, that one right next to the incinerator on the black ashfield ....

    End of joke.

    Psst, John2bee, what happened to the story of the emperor's clothes? I can't see the tent ...

    PS
    I love it when the "Fossil fuel" is a swear word and when "billionaire" is an automatic ticket to hell, absolutely love it.
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  19. #11669
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Do you hate rich people? Come on, be honest. Rich people are greedy and shallow. They get rich by taking advantage of others. They are miserly and selfish. Money is their god.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-over-money/201003/rich-people-are-greedy
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  20. #11670
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    My goodness, intelligence, how can you insult something that is seldom put on display.
    you virtually took the words out of my mouth! Amazingly I must just have a minute amount of that rare commodity lurking somewhere to provide some proof for my side of an argument, whereas after endless pages of requests asking to provide some sort of proof to counter it.............NOTHING! Mmmmm what does that say?
    just for the ones lacking the rare commodity I will ask again,
    " how about you show us your intelligence & provide something that no other person or institution has been able to do as yet so far, which is explain why CO2 concentrations are now linked intimately, yet never were in the past? "
    Your attempts that try's to twist & connive the debate away from you inability to provide these explanations reinforces what is clearly obvious!


    regards inter

  21. #11671
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    you virtually took the words out of my mouth! Amazingly I must just have a minute amount of that rare commodity lurking somewhere to provide some proof for my side of an argument, whereas after endless pages of requests asking to provide some sort of proof to counter it.............NOTHING! Mmmmm what does that say?
    just for the ones lacking the rare commodity I will ask again,
    " how about you show us your intelligence & provide something that no other person or institution has been able to do as yet so far, which is explain why CO2 concentrations are now linked intimately, yet never were in the past? "
    Your attempts that try's to twist & connive the debate away from you inability to provide these explanations reinforces what is clearly obvious!


    regards inter
    No mate, half the time I just reply to see how long it takes you to respond, it is rare to see someone so afflicted with last word syndrome. You actually appear to be serious yet can't rise above petty insults.

  22. #11672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Do you hate rich people? Come on, be honest. Rich people are greedy and shallow. They get rich by taking advantage of others. They are miserly and selfish. Money is their god.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-over-money/201003/rich-people-are-greedy
    ? what's your point, I actually don't think climate change has a rich/poor divide. May as well say those on the wrong side are generally stupid morons you'd get almost 100% agreement but then they would go straight back arguing about to just who is wrong

  23. #11673
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    No mate, half the time I just reply to see how long it takes you to respond, it is rare to see someone so afflicted with last word syndrome. You actually appear to be serious yet can't rise above petty insults.
    The other half of time we're all rolling around on the ground after the last half baked evaded question! And when you put 3 of you guys together we're 50% overloaded with the ridiculous!
    regards inter

  24. #11674
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    " how about you show us your intelligence & provide something that no other person or institution has been able to do as yet so far, which is explain why CO2 concentrations are now linked intimately, yet never were in the past? "
    FFS inter! How many times do we have to say "it isn't" before it sinks in. There is a link but it's not intimate and it never has been. Which is why there's not much of a relationship in your simplistic graph (grasp) of prehistory. It's just not as simple as you'd like to think.
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  25. #11675
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    The Secretary-General of the United Nations gave a speech over the weekend. He announced the following.
    Climate change is the defining issue of our time. If we do not take urgent action, all our plans for increased global prosperity and security will be undone."
    United Nations News Centre - &#39The race is on, it's time to lead&#39, UN chief tells Abu Dhabi climate change eventThis speech indicates that the climate change movement is now a politically lost cause. The classic statement of a politically lost cause is this declaration: "If nothing is done immediately, it will soon be too late. But there is time to save ourselves if we act now."
    Why is this evidence of a lost cause? Because nothing is ever done politically to solve major long-term problems. Politicians take action only when the public demands it, and therefore their re-election is at risk. By the time the public is unified enough to demand action, the voters are already feeling the pain. By the time they feel the pain, the crisis is upon them. It is no longer a long-term problem. It is a short-term problem.
    The Global Warming Movement Has Run Out of Gas
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  26. #11676
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    FFS inter! How many times do we have to say "it isn't" before it sinks in. There is a link but it's not intimate and it never has been. Which is why there's not much of a relationship in your simplistic graph (grasp) of prehistory. It's just not as simple as you'd like to think.
    Tell us something we don't know! So then if it's not intimately linked then basically the majority of warming is from other variables, we dont have to worry about catastrophic warming AND there is no need for a carbon tax!
    Your limp argument is being watered down, like we didn't know that already!
    Regards inter

  27. #11677
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    FFS inter! How many times do we have to say "it isn't" before it sinks in. There is a link but it's not intimate and it never has been. Which is why there's not much of a relationship in your simplistic graph (grasp) of prehistory. It's just not as simple as you'd like to think.
    Real Climate has a story on that graph and a link back to the original site where they have the latest version, changed somewhat from the "indisputable" one inter commented on previously. The copy most favoured by denier sites is the one that does not show the large area of uncertainty. RealClimate: Can we make better graphs of global temperature history?

    There are some events in history where co2 is directly linked to warming and they show on other versions of the graph.

  28. #11678
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    So then if it's not intimately linked then basically the majority of warming is from other variables, we dont have to worry about catastrophic warming AND there is no need for a carbon tax!
    Only in your simple little world...long may you live there.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  29. #11679
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    The big "renewable energy" fraud.
    The puny ridiculous amount of wind energy, (solar does not even show) is less than the amount generated by methane from rotting rubbish.
    And for that ridiculously low and unreliable amount of energy we paid subsidies so high that besides making the merchants rich, makes the rest of the electricity so much dearer that makes many industries non viable and they must go to other countries.
    And that is not counting the permanent and irretrievable pollution by mining for all the elements that go in a wind generator, the visual pollution, the alleged wildlife impact, the very real noise pollution, and I can go on and on.
    Will we ever see anyone jailed for fraud about this?

    download111.png
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails download121.png  
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  30. #11680
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    ...and I can go on and on.
    We know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Will we ever see anyone jailed for fraud about this?
    Nope. Posting rubbish on the internet is quite legal.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  31. #11681
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Only in your simple little world...long may you live there.
    obviously there are too many concepts for you to cope with at one time, maybe it needs some sort of expensive committee a decade or 2 to work out what any garden variety person can see clearly!
    regards inter

  32. #11682
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Nope. Posting rubbish on the internet is quite legal.
    You have proven that! The trouble is we're not quite stupid enough to swallow what you believe!
    regards inter

  33. #11683
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    You have proven that! The trouble is we're not quite stupid enough to swallow what you believe!
    regards inter
    That's good. Wouldn't want you getting any worse...
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  34. #11684
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    So the energy suppliers association of australia posts rubbish right?
    esaa ::
    Can you kindly point at the errors in their website? Please not a skewed ABC kind of graph it affects my digestion.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    That's good. Wouldn't want you getting any worse...
    you said it!
    regards inter

  36. #11686
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So the energy suppliers association of australia posts rubbish right?
    esaa ::
    Can you kindly point at the errors in their website? Please not a skewed ABC kind of graph it affects my digestion.
    I didn't say that. I was merely responding to your question...my response still stands.
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  37. #11687
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    you said it!
    regards inter
    Yes you did...so all is right with the world.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  38. #11688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So the energy suppliers association of australia posts rubbish right?
    esaa ::
    Can you kindly point at the errors in their website? Please not a skewed ABC kind of graph it affects my digestion.
    anybody holding their breath waiting for the answer for that will be awfully blue in the face & expired well before it never appears!
    regards inter

  39. #11689
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So the energy suppliers association of australia posts rubbish right?
    esaa ::
    Can you kindly point at the errors in their website? Please not a skewed ABC kind of graph it affects my digestion.
    Was it on the internet? Yes? Ergo rubbish. Not fraudulent. No jail for them or you.

    As for pointing out errors...no. Couldn't be stuffed. Kindly or otherwise. Waste of my time. If I were to guess though I suspect the 'error' lies somewhere else...as they intended.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Yes you did...so all is right with the world.
    I can only again agree fully when you are referring about post #11682 .
    regards inter

  41. #11691
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Was it on the internet? Yes? Ergo rubbish. Not fraudulent. No jail for them or you.

    As for pointing out errors...no. Couldn't be stuffed. Kindly or otherwise. Waste of my time. If I were to guess though I suspect the 'error' lies somewhere else...as they intended.
    a classic example of a whole lot of dribble to say nothing at all, it makes normal people think they are suffering from sleep apnoea as they pass out for no explainable reason!
    regards inter

  42. #11692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Why is this evidence of a lost cause? Because nothing is ever done politically to solve major long-term problems. Politicians take action only when the public demands it, and therefore their re-election is at risk.
    The premise on which your cut'n'paste blogologue is based is false. What about the action on acid rain, photochemical smog, CFC's, vaccines for polio, pox and measles, votes for women, fluoride in water to proven tooth decay, communications satellites, clean air laws, safe water supplies, weather bureaus, safe cars, safe banks, safe footpaths, safe child care, schools and countless other actions undertaken by politicians running governments without being forced by public demand, but done because they were the right thing to do?
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    a classic example of a whole lot of dribble to say nothing at all, it makes normal people think they are suffering from sleep apnoea as they pass out for no explainable reason!
    regards inter
    You mean Narcolepsy not sleep apnoea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So the energy suppliers association of australia posts rubbish right?
    The ESAA is an industry lobby group that, according to its website, seeks to influence government policy decisions. Of course they are going to spin things to suit their agenda. If you want to see the real data, go to the body that collates the data, the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics: Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Can you kindly point at the errors in their website? Please not a skewed ABC kind of graph it affects my digestion.
    For a start their data isn't current and doesn't reflect the recent effects of past renewable energy policy. There's a more up to date version here (warning - it does not support your "puny" assertion at all): http://www.bree.gov.au/sites/bree.go...statistics.pdf
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    There are some events in history where co2 is directly linked to warming and they show on other versions of the graph.
    You must point them out?
    regards

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    South Australia’s wind farms produced enough electricity to meet a record 43 per cent of the state’s power needs during July, and on occasions during the month provided all the state’s electricity needs.

    Combined with the state’s 550MW of solar power, it is likely that nearly half of the state’s electricity demand came from variable renewable sources such as wind and solar, and remember SA does not have any hydro.

    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy the pm View Post
    You mean Narcolepsy not sleep apnoea
    That too
    regards inter

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    Oh yes, it is 2 years old, sorry. I am sure in 2 years we gone from 3% to 30% Wow!
    The truth is that wind and solar are another con, unsustainable, depending on subsidies as heavy as a state library but without the advantages. Well that if you don't count the good folks that make a killing selling us this con, oh, and also the religious folks who get high on this between puffs of dope.
    http://www.esaa.com.au/policy/data_a...y_in_australia


    PS
    Oh yes and before you mention it, I am part of the con too. I have solar panels and you are paying for my electricity bill. I get 3 times the cost of retail electricity for what I produce. I wish I could get into wind but I think the banks are catching up on that, no future only short term gain. I wonder what a brown coal generator costs. mmm may be a good time to buy one now.


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    Wow look at this baby! I can see this puffing away in my backyard oh yeeess!
    Have to check the best source of coal. Newcastle probably a good choice. Cheap electricity here I come!

    2mw Coal Steam Boiler With Turbine Electricity Generation Power Plant - Buy Coal Fired Steam Boiler For Sale,Coal Fired Boiler For Sale,Biomass Steam Boiler Product on Alibaba.com

    Wow! I just read the ad, it says it works on many different fuels, even biomass. This is what I do, instead of burning the cheapest coal I can find, and be all competitive and all that, (who wants to do that anyway so old hat) i'll go to the government and ask for money not to burn coal and to burn wheat instead. Yes, wheat has it days when it is so cheap we can not get rid of it, so ... I burn it and have a Green power plant, how about that! Beatifull, I get all tingly just from thinking about it. And don't forget, I will re negotiate the feeding tariff too. Since I am at a disadvantage for the love of the environment and the local green priests, I want double .... no, 3 times the going rate for my sweety power...and guess who will pay for my private island, lar jet and gentlemen yacht?
    You of course not me!
    Love it.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Oh yes, it is 2 years old, sorry. I am sure in 2 years we gone from 3% to 30% Wow!
    Imagine if we had started in the 1980s when it was first obvious that we needed too. We would be 100% renewables now and all getting "free" energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Oh yes and before you mention it, I am part of the con too. I have solar panels and you are paying for my electricity bill. I get 3 times the cost of retail electricity for what I produce.
    That is very noble of you. Not only are you reducing your own CO2 emissions, you are reducing the CO2 emissions of others. The most efficient electricity generation is that done at the point of use. Oh, and you are reducing the wholesale cost of electricity to commercial users as well, through the "order of merit" effect, you grand do-gooder, Marc. And deferring the need for the state of NSW to spend money bolstering peak capacity in both generation and distribution, on which rooftop solar has had a huge mitigating effect.

    Oh, and another thing, the construction costs of renewable generation plant are now less than the same capacity of fossil fuel generation plant, but renewable generation does not have a fuel cost. Is it any wonder there is no fossil fuel generation plant planned for anywhere in Australia? Or is it any wonder that the fossil fuel generators who run the ESAA are spewing. And before you bring up subsidies, please don't ignore that the fossil fuel industry is incredibly heavily subsidised at many levels of government, much more subsidised in dollar value per watt of capacity than renewables ever were.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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