Emission Trading and climate change

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  1. #11901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Key points on the politics
    Thanks for the list of dog-whistle statements designed to appeal to the witless. What's it got to do with the topic? In fact, your reference website seems to be unable to discuss the topic of climate change or climate change politics either. The site is just an vulgar blow-hole in the blogosphere...
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    History shows us that environmental causes have often been used to advance political agenda.
    So has every other 'cause' one would care to name....every political agenda there ever was has at least one cause behind it. So this is hardly a key point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    • The present climate “crisis” unfortunately provides such an opportunity for:
      • more global governance and regulation by the UN;
      • a redistribution of wealth on a global scale from richer to poorer nations;
      • widespread increases in taxation at the expense of economic growth and prosperity;
      • a scaling back of Western economic progress; and ultimately,
      • a dismantling of capitalist systems (anti-globalisation)


    ...or an opportunity for a good old piece of conservative upper middle class first world fear mongering. But if that floats your boat then good for you. After all, every rabid nutjob greenie needs a counterpoint to maintain the balance.
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    The fat lady is clearing her throat..... Not long to go now.

    Matt Ridley in the WSJ: Whatever Happened to Global Warming? | Watts Up With That?

    Cant come soon enough 17 years and 11 months no warming. This has gotta hurt the alarmists.

    Global Temperature Update – No global warming for 17 years 11 months | Watts Up With That?
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    Been covered to death before in this thread Rod.

    It's not an accurate summary of the climate and 17 years 11 months does not qualify as a climate significant time span.

    Looks like you've got nothing too!

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    The fat lady is clearing her throat.....
    Interesting association: The reference to the fat lady comes from a saying that cautions that one should not presume to know the outcome of an event which is still in progress. When she does sing, there is going to be a lot of faces covered with eggs sunny side up.

    And from an article in the Wall Street Journal - obviously Ridley couldn't get it published anywhere with a cognisant editor. Where do you go for building technical advice Rod - Australian Yoga Journal?

    Chairman Xi may not be attending the UN summit in Sept, but in fact China is front runner for a number of awards in the C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group for CO2 emission reductions announced the day before as part of the event.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  6. #11906
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Year on year anomalies are tiny...



    You misunderstood. I merely plan the response to policy...lots of freedom there. Fear naught. There's not much response, policy or not. Things are going as we expected long ago so we can plan for it regardless and you can all remain clueless...

    Ahhh...Utopia.
    So if you are employed to contribute to response to policy, what value have your post here? Your position must be aligned with your employment
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
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  7. #11907
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    March 12, 2014
    The Dead Parrot of Man-Made Climate Change

    Charles Battig
    “Monty Python” did not foresee the current, catastrophic man-made global warming/climate change hoax. The group did, however, have a firm grasp of everyday absurdities. Their 1969 “Dead Parrot Sketch” depicts two completely different viewpoints of the reality of a dead “Norwegian Blue” parrot. The parrot is quite dead to any objective outside observer. The pet shop owner is unwilling to accept this reality, and he contrives a variety of absurd excuses to explain the parrot’s immobility.Such is the case now with those denying the fact that their claim – that catastrophic climate change results from increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide – has proved false. For seventeen-plus years, global atmospheric carbon dioxide has continued to increase, yet global temperatures have remained flat.Schoolchildren are indoctrinated with the dogma of destructive climate change caused by human activity. However, none of those seventeen or younger have experienced the claimed global warming.
    In less than three years, the current global temperature plateau will match the prior twenty-year warming trend, itself preceding a thirty-year global cooling period. Such reality conflicts with current political dogma and the investment schemes built on political favoritism.
    The reality of a defunct, bogus claim that human activity has measurably or harmfully impacted global climate is not accepted by the shopkeepers who sold the public this dead parrot. Said shopkeeper is exemplified in real life by Prof. Chris Folland, Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research: “The data doesn't matter. We're not basing our recommendations on the data. We're basing them on the climate models.”
    The parrot may look dead, but we are not looking at the parrot. We are looking at our computer, which says the parrot is alive.

    Read more: Blog: The Dead Parrot of Man-Made Climate Change
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    Default Re: Emission Trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So if you are employed to contribute to response to policy, what value have your post here? Your position must be aligned with your employment
    Why? Why should my opinion reflect what I get paid for? Or vice versa. I'm not a politician.

    Hahahahahajaghafhgnvjvxhgx vx ....<cough>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So if you are employed to contribute to response to policy, what value have your post here? Your position must be aligned with your employment
    Playing the man again?

    Same as anybody else's. SBD's are arguably a step up as he probably is paid to do some conscientious research assembling a response to policy.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Been covered to death before in this thread Rod.

    It's not an accurate summary of the climate and 17 years 11 months does not qualify as a climate significant time span.

    Looks like you've got nothing too!
    LOL It doesn't matter a damn what is said here it is over and we all know it. Gloss over this stuff like it means nothing all you like. We are very close to the end of this charade and most people know it. It cant come soon enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Been covered to death before in this thread Rod.

    It's not an accurate summary of the climate and 17 years 11 months does not qualify as a climate significant time span.

    Looks like you've got nothing too!
    It may have been cover to death but nothing, NOT A SINGLE THING on this thread has demonstrated AGW is as dangerous and accelerating like all the scaremongerers would have us believe.

    It is going to be the biggest joke and embarrassment the world has ever seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    LOL It doesn't matter a damn what is said here it is over and we all know it. Gloss over this stuff like it means nothing all you like. We are very close to the end of this charade and most people know it. It cant come soon enough.
    Unfortunately, you could not be further from the truth - the longer the "hiatus" the more severe the next step up in surface air temperature.

    In fact, there has been no hiatus in the heat energy gain in the climate, something horticulturalists and agriculturalists appreciate world-wide as they scramble to find plants and trees that don't need so many "cold hours" to set fruit or be productive. This unprecedented mad race against the climate has accelerated tremendously in the past decade due to the changes that have occurred over the past few years.

    If your belief makes you feel better that's just fine - for you in your insulated thought bubble. However obtuse ignorance should not be erroneously paraded as episteme.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    [QUOTE=Rod Dyson;946874]It may have been cover to death but nothing, NOT A SINGLE THING on this thread has demonstrated AGW is as dangerous and accelerating like all the scaremongerers would have us believe./QUOTE]

    Eyes WIDE SHUT? Or is the actual destruction of life as we know it the only demonstration you will accept?

    In fact NOT A SINGLE THING in this thread shown that AGW is erroneous.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  14. #11914
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    So we have seen graphs about CO2, temperatures, sea levels, and any other imaginable pseudo science attempting to support the fairy tales and those attempting to discredit them and expose the fraud.
    I did not know that there are graphs showing the mention of the words climate change in media and blogs. Had I know this, I would have written c1im4t c+4nge so to avoid contributing to this graphs, but it seems there was no need for me to resort to such extreme measures. The global warming fraud is in it's last death throes and not soon enough.

    The day the Global Warming death spiral began


    Let the historic dissection begin. Man-made global warming is a dying market and a zombie science.
    The Carbon Capture Report, based in Illinois, tallies up the media stories from the English speaking media on “climate change” daily. Thanks to the tip from Peter Lang, we can see the terminal trend below. The big peak in late 2009 was the double-whammy of Climategate and Copenhagen (aka Hopenhagen). It’s all been downhill since then.
    media-climate-change-coverage.jpg
    But something that caught my eye was the drop in mid 2011 (or precisely — July 29, 2011) when media stories fell by half, a step-change fall from which they never recovered.
    Media Matters, and Joe Romm make much of of the fact that after Paul Ingrassia (a skeptic) was appointed as Reuters deputy-editor-in-chief news coverage of climate change fell by half. Media Matters found a 48% decline in climate-change coverage over a six-month period, after Ingrassia joined the agency in 2011.
    But Ingrassia started in April 2011 not July. Media Matters compares 6 months before the global fall Oct 2010 – April 2011 — to a six month period after the global fall (Oct 2011 – April 2012). Media Matters and Romm missed the big picture.
    The Carbon Capture report graph above includes news, articles, blogs, tweets. The step change occurs in news stories and tweets, but doesn’t happen in blogs til October 15, 2011. When it comes, the use of “climate change” in blogs plummets about 70%. What happened? (Suggestions welcome). Is this an artefact, does it include comments? Is this a moment when the 50c army got new instructions (and why?), or, who knows, perhaps paychecks for astroturfing stopped? I have no data…
    blogs-climate-change-coverage.jpg
    The day the Global Warming death spiral began « JoNova
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    LOL It doesn't matter a damn what is said here it is over and we all know it. Gloss over this stuff like it means nothing all you like. We are very close to the end of this charade and most people know it. It cant come soon enough.
    Rod, unlike most of your fellow sceptics in this thread, you have previously accepted the science of CO2 here. I commend you for that.

    You cannot now turn around and claim that it is a charade. You choose a low sensitivity as your get out of jail card but even so that low sensitivity is not low enough to support your claim that is is over.

    Perhaps you could find a scientific paper to support your opinion that it is over? Or perhaps one that changes your acceptance of the science of CO2?

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by john2b View Post
    unfortunately, you could not be further from the truth - the longer the "hiatus" the more severe the next step up in surface air temperature.

    In fact, there has been no hiatus in the heat energy gain in the climate, something horticulturalists and agriculturalists appreciate world-wide as they scramble to find plants and trees that don't need so many "cold hours" to set fruit or be productive. This unprecedented mad race against the climate has accelerated tremendously in the past decade due to the changes that have occurred over the past few years.

    If your belief makes you feel better that's just fine - for you in your insulated thought bubble. However obtuse ignorance should not be erroneously paraded as episteme.
    lol
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    [QUOTE=John2b;946887]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    It may have been cover to death but nothing, NOT A SINGLE THING on this thread has demonstrated AGW is as dangerous and accelerating like all the scaremongerers would have us believe./QUOTE]

    Eyes WIDE SHUT? Or is the actual destruction of life as we know it the only demonstration you will accept?

    In fact NOT A SINGLE THING in this thread shown that AGW is erroneous.
    GRAND ALARMISIM like this is dead, and can only affect the weak minded sheep in society. The average Joe is over it and has tuned out. Alarmists went in too strong with ridiculous claims that have not eventuated, how can you possibly think adding more ridiculous claims will benefit you!!

    Ding dong the witch is dead
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Rod, unlike most of your fellow sceptics in this thread, you have previously accepted the science of CO2 here. I commend you for that.

    You cannot now turn around and claim that it is a charade. You choose a low sensitivity as your get out of jail card but even so that low sensitivity is not low enough to support your claim that is is over.

    Perhaps you could find a scientific paper to support your opinion that it is over? Or perhaps one that changes your acceptance of the science of CO2?
    This has to be your biggest fail of all woodbe. Failure to recognise the difference here.

    It is so obvious to anyone else yet you play on it like its some gottcha event. This is ingenious on your part and shows how you can be manipulated by "data" or "evidence" no matter how twisted of massaged, as long as it supports you view of the world.
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    [QUOTE=Rod Dyson;946906]
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Ding dong the witch is dead
    Is that a summary of the science/evidence to support your view? Are you going to publish this breathtaking reversal of scientific laws?
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    This has to be your biggest fail of all woodbe. Failure to recognise the difference here.

    It is so obvious to anyone else yet you play on it like its some gottcha event. This is ingenious on your part and shows how you can be manipulated by "data" or "evidence" no matter how twisted of massaged, as long as it supports you view of the world.
    I think you should read those words in the mirror.

    Your choices are to reneg on your support of the science of CO2 or to change your opinion.

    I've said it plenty of times here. I support the science. If the science changes, so will I. You on the other hand claim to support the science but run away from the results.

    In 17 years and 11 months (by your quote), the science has not backed away from the published science around CO2 and it's effect on the climate. Neither has it backed away from the science that shows that CO2 is one of many forcings in the climate system. Opinion skeptics play the game claiming science ignores other inputs, a convenient ruse not supported by even cursory glances at the actual science.

    Just because a bunch of opinion skeptics latch onto one facet of the climate (surface temperature), cherry pick convenient dates to show a contrived lack of warming, and ignore all other data does not mean the climate is not warming. This is the big skeptic card but it doesn't hold water on so many levels but it is repeated ad nauseum because apart from media and blog political posts, that is all skeptics have to reply to the science.

    The climate is more than just surface temperature, but in any case you will get your next temperature spike in due course, what are you going to claim then? No warming since 20XX ?

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


  21. #11921
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    Caruba: Global Warming, R.I.P. | The Federal Observer
    Caruba: Global Warming, R.I.P.

    Leave a reply
    Have you noticed that you rarely hear “global warming” mentioned on radio or television and the term rarely occurs any more in the print media?
    One reason is that it has been replaced with “climate change” and the other reason is that the only people talking about climate change seem to be leaders of governments like the United States or Australia.
    To borrow a line from Shakespeare, I come to bury global warming, not to praise it.
    An early and unrelenting skeptic from the days it first debuted in the late 1980s, I rather instinctively knew that the only warming occurring was the same natural warming that always follows a cooling cycle; in this case the warming that began in 1850 after the Little Ice Age that began around 1300.
    It never made sense to me that “industry” should be blamed for pumping massive amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere when the amount of CO2 was a minuscule 0.038 percent with far greater amounts of hydrogen and oxygen that protect the Earth from becoming the galactic equivalent of a toasted marshmallow.
    .......................

    The legacy of “global warming” has been the decades-long attack on U.S. energy sources until today our vast resources of coal and oil remain in the ground instead of being available as the price of oil increases due to troubles in the Middle East and the cost of electricity increases due to laws mandating that utilities must buy from wind and solar electricity producers who would be out of business by next week without those government mandates.
    http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/...warming-r-i-p/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cartoon-gore-global-warming.png  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    (copious blogosphere paste ensues)
    July 2014 was the 353rd consecutive month in which global land and ocean average surface temperature exceeded the 20th-century monthly average. The last time the global average surface temperature fell below that 20th-century monthly average was in February 1985, as reported by the US-based National Climate Data Center.

    This means that anyone born after February 1985 has not lived a single month where the global temperature was below the long-term average for that month.

    New study finds 99.999 percent certainty humans are causing global warming
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    The more you cry wolf the more people are turned away!!

    Keep it up guys ..........

    As its credibility dwindles due to its slanted “science” and politically motivated advocacy of anti-growth diktats, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is preparing a report so dire that it hardly seems to concern the same Earth on which the rest of humanity lives.

    A draft of that IPCC report, due out in final form in early November, says greenhouse gas emissions are outrunning political reduction measures and predicts decades of “severe, pervasive and irreversible impacts,” according to The New York Times. The world's loudest climate-clucking Chicken Littles foresee grain harvests diminishing, Greenland's ice sheet melting, sea levels rising and extreme weather increasing. And there's less time than ever to head off disaster by submitting to IPCC orthodoxy.

    But even the loudest clucking can't drown out contrary facts. U.S. temperatures haven't risen in a decade. Global temperatures have been flat for 17 years. Prior warming was within natural variability. The IPCC's main greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide, isn't a pollutant. And humanity's climate impact is negligible, so top-down “solutions” are pointless and economically harmful, as shown by Australia repealing its carbon tax in favor of voluntary clean-energy incentives.

    Still, there's value in this draft report. It shows how much at odds with reality the IPCC is — and how far climate science is from being “settled.”


    Read more: Chicken Littles can&apos;t cluck away climate facts | TribLIVE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    The more you cry wolf the more people are turned away!!
    Oh dear, still can't understand the difference between weather and climate?

    difference between weather and climate - Google Search
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    ho hum
    I find it so funny that some "climate" activist find it their duty to reply to every post with either a disparaging comment about the author or the website that originates the initial post and never addressing the points made.
    If it is so obvious that this sinners and deniers are oh so wrong, their apostatic heresy should be easy to debunk.
    Hei no, it is easier to say, your fart stinks! He he ... show me the "man made global warming".

    Sinners repent! the day of reckoning is at hand, fire and brimstone will burn you, the doors of hades are open!
    Yea yea, we heard it all before ...
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    ^^ Mirror, anyone? LMFAO
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Its business as usual in Big Green world, as their Climate Religion Scam comes apart around them, the policy makers and propagandists continue to push ideas that are never going to win them new friends or stem the tide of dwindling support.
    Their faith is either touching, or stupid because they still believe that their boondoggle will come to fruition in Paris in 2015, that all the countries of the world will sign up to a legally binding climate treaty.
    A key part of the climate treaty is further emissions cuts and wealth redistribution, the warming alarmists will say that wealth redistribution is a denier lie, as usual they are either wrong or lying, in the words of UN IPCC official Ottmar Edenhoffer “ we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy.
    Wealth Redistribution or “Climate Justice” is sanitized Greenspeak, really it is all about the 2 core left wing principles: apportionment of blame and payback. READ THE REST OF THIS ENTRY →
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
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    ^^^

    Like I said to Rod; (paraphrasing) "apart from no warming since..., media and blog political posts, that is all skeptics have to reply to the science".

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Carbon emissions from the country's main electricity grid have risen since the end of the carbon tax by the largest amount in nearly eight years. Data from the National Electricity Market, which covers about 80 per cent of Australia's population, shows that emissions from the sector rose by about 1 million tonnes, or 0.8 per cent, at an annualised rate last month compared with June.

    Emissions from energy generation jump most in eight years after carbon price axed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    The more you cry wolf the more people are turned away!!

    If I recall the tale correctly...the wolf turned up in the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    But even the loudest clucking can't drown out contrary facts.
    "We've recorded all sorts of climate change shifts in multiple areas. However, the scientific process is consistent. Every single individual study that has been done, has gone through the same rigorous process, data collection, research analysis, and qualified peer review. At the moment, we've at least 10 000 different papers, completed over 20 years, each using different data sets, and they are all coming to the same climate change conclusions. We've a weight of evidence that the average person is simply not aware of - and this frightens me..."


    Shauna Murray
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    University of Technology Sydney, University of Tokyo, University of New South Wales
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    Wind Power Fraud

    WIND
    POWER
    FRAUD
    WHY WIND WON'T WORKby Charles S. Opalek, PE
    Everyone believes alternative energies are the answer to all our power problems, with wind power leading the way. The truth is: Wind power is unsustainable and a total waste of resources.

    This the book exposes the utter uselessness of wind power, including how:

    • Wind turbines rarely produce their advertised full power. On average, wind turbines only produce about 20% of their nameplate rating.
    • Wind power is unreliable and undispatchable. When it is needed most, it will likely be unavailable to provide any power when it is needed most.
    • Wind power is not clean. It takes a lot of dirty energy to make the materials, manufacture and install a wind turbine facility.
    • Wind turbines are not environmentally friendly. They are noisy, unsightly, kill bats and birds, interfere with radars, and have been shown to be responsible for a slew of health problems.
    • Wind turbines consume electricity whether operating or not. Often this power is not even metered. Care to guess who is paying the bill for this power?
    • In theory, if 20% of US electric generation was replaced by wind power, the decrease in CO2 emissions would be an unnoticeable 0.00948%.
    • In reality, wind power doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all, because backup fossil power plants have to cycle wildly and inefficiently trying to keep up with erratic wind power output.
    • Wind power will not replace fossil fired power plants. Germany estimates that by 2020 up to 96% of its wind power capacity will need to be backed up by new coal fired power plants.
    • Wind power will not reduce US dependency on foreign oil. If wind power replaced 20% of US electric generation, the resulting decrease in oil imports would be a measly 0.292%.
    • Wind turbines have an embarrassingly low Energy Returned On Energy Invested value of 0.29. The manufacture, installation and operation of wind power facilities will consume more than 3 times the energy they will ever produce.

    Wind Power is Big Business. The big winners will be developers, land owners, brokerage houses, banks, manufacturers, governments, the "green" movement, environmentalists, researchers, academia, and the news media. The big losers will be the taxpayers and electric bill payers.

    If you:
    suspect that wind power
    isn't all that it is crapped up to be -
    are suspicious with all the seemingly endless positive hype surrounding wind power -
    wonder why no one has anything negative to say about wind power -
    need a complete source of information to refute all the claims about wind power -
    Then Wind Power Fraud is the book for you.

    To orderyour copy go to www.lulu.com. WIND POWER FRAUD: 230 pages, 6" x 9", perfect bound, black and white, soft cover for $19.70, or download for $5.24.

    About the Author: Charles S. Opalek is a registered Professional Engineer with a Bachelor of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering. He has been practicing engineering since 1965, and has been in private practice since 1987. Much of his background was in power generation. He is an active consulting engineer to architects, designing heating, ventilating, and air conditioning, plumbing and electrical systems for industrial, commercial and residential projects.

    Updated 06-23-10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Wind turbines rarely produce their advertised full power. On average, wind turbines only produce about 20% of their nameplate rating.
    So what? Cars are rarely driven at full speed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Wind power is unreliable and undispatchable.
    Nonsense. Wind is predictable allowing energy markets to take advantage of it's low cost. If supply exceeds demand, wind turbines can be feathered; thermal power plants cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Wind power is not clean. It takes a lot of dirty energy to make the materials, manufacture and install a wind turbine facility.
    Absolute rubbish. The whole of life manufacturing, running and decommissioning of wind generation has one of the lowest energy footprints (about 1/100 that of equivalent coal generation capacity).

    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/57131.pdf


    I could go on... Honestly Marc, what is the point of mindlessly regurgitating all this drivel when it is so easily shown to be absolute nonsense? Haven't you got any legitimate points to make?
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Despite 5.3% annual growth in electricity consumption and despite 35 GW of new coal generation capacity in the past 12 months (Australia's total generation capacity is 'only' 45 GW), Chinese year on year coal consumption has started to decline as low cost wind power displaces higher cost coal power:


    A coal analyst might take comfort in the substantial 35.5GW of new coal-fired power capacity installed (7/2013-6/2014). However, the merit order effect is very clear – low marginal cost electricity sources will take priority in supplying demand. High marginal costs mean that coal fired capacity utilisation rates have fallen in the last twelve months. Hence the report that China’s domestic coal consumption actually declined 0.9% year-on-year in the first six months of 2014.

    China is a centrally controlled economy. There is no point in their "cheating" or cross subsidising energy costs - they will just do what is cheapest.

    Wind energy surges in China, as demand for coal fades : Renew Economy
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  36. #11936
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    I usually avoid replying unless it has to do with native bees. This time I'll make an exception
    Wind is predictable
    I rest my case.

    The rest of the "replies" fall in the same category, but the one above takes the cake. Well done!

    La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

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    Spelt out for those with a cognition deficit: In the context of wind energy, wind is predictable in the timescale of planning the despatch of electricity.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    In July 2014, wind farms in South Australia provided 6% of Australia's total electricity generation.

    In 2012, 27% of South Australian installed capacity was wind, and that wind generated 25% of annual total electrical energy in South Australia. Wind generation was relatively consistent on a typical hourly basis when averaged across the whole of South Australia, though it does display a generally higher output in the early morning.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2010/rich-trzupek/the-wind-farm-scam/

    I never thought I’d agree with a member of the Kennedy clan, but Bobby Kennedy’s son got it right when he dismissed the much-hyped Cape Wind project that Interior Secretary Ken Salazar approved last week. “It’s a boondoggle of the worst kind,” Kennedy said. “It’s going to cost the people of Massachusetts $4 billion over the next 20 years in extra costs.”


    If anything, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an environmental lawyer, underestimated the cost of Cape Wind. The project will see the construction of 130 wind-powered turbines off the coast of Cape Cod Massachusetts that will, according to its developers, generate an average of 170 megawatts of electricity for the Bay State.
    The turbines will cost about $1 billion to build. Let’s assume that the useful life of the wind turbines is twenty years, that the maintenance costs of the windmills is zero, and that nobody has to pay a dime of interest on the $1 billion worth of financing needed to construct these windmills. Even if we accept such wildly inaccurate and charitable assumptions, the cost of energy generated by Cape Wind over those twenty years will be over thirty-three cents per kilowatt.
    That’s more than six times the typical wholesale price for electrons today, around six cents per kilowatt, depending on the market.....................

    If a coal-fired plant providing base-load power operates at something less than a ninety percent capacity factor, it’s owners are going to take a long, hard look at the way it’s being run. But windmills – both because they’re expensive and thus often among the last units to called into service to meet demand, and because you just can’t count on the wind – are built in droves despite the fact they are eighty percent useless. But for government subsidies, Cape Wind, or any of the big wind farms sprouting up across the country, would not exist.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

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    It took great courage for Lloyd to write up his expose of the tremendous damage being caused by a wind farm to a small community in Waterloo, north of Adelaide. Most newspaper environment editors -- from Australia to Britain and the US -- tend, unfortunately, to be so ideologically wedded to the supposed virtues of renewable energy they find it all but impossible to criticise it.
    Lloyd interviewed a number of victims whose lives had been ruined by the vast, swooshing wind towers looking over their homes. They found sleep almost impossible; they couldn't concentrate; they had night sweats, headaches, palpitations, heart trouble. Their chickens were laying eggs without yolks; their ewes were giving birth to deformed lambs; their once-active dogs spent their days staring blankly at the wall. The damage, it seems, is caused not so much by the noise you can hear but by what you can't hear: the infrasonic waves that attack the balance mechanism in the ear and against which not even home insulation can defend you. Its effects can be felt more than 10km away.

    Inspired by Lloyd's article, I went to investigate and was heartbroken by what I found. Until you've seen what it can do to people, it's easy to dismiss wind turbine syndrome as a hypochondriac's charter or an urban myth. But it's real all right. Waterloo felt like a ghost town: shuttered houses and a dust-blown aura of sinister unease, as in a horror movie when something dreadful has happened to a previously ordinary, happy settlement and at first you're not sure what. Then you look up on to the horizon and see them, turning slowly in the breeze . . .

    Even more shocking than this, though, were my discoveries about the finance arrangements and behaviour of the wind farm companies. What we have here, I believe, is the biggest and most outrageous public affairs scandal of the 21st century -- one in which the Gillard government is implicated and that far exceeds in seriousness and scope of the Slipper or Thomson sideshows.


    At the heart of this scandal are the union superannuation funds that are using the wind farm scam as a kind of government-endorsed Ponzi scheme to fill their coffers at public expense.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...9452a757d5a232
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

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    The "global warming" aka "climate change" may as well be called "wet rain" scam is, in case you missed it, a political fraud. It has political origins, political purposes, it exists only due to political subsidies disguised as environmental concerns, is promoted by paid activist who defend their livelihood like a salesman of a pyramid scheme would.

    The cost of the global warming fraud will one day be calculated in the quadrillions of dollars and in decades of de-development to the west.
    The fraud to the public who voted influenced by this con, will probably be impossible to estimate.

    At this stage and with the amount of information available, it is difficult to give the benefit of the doubt to the sincerity of those who still today support and defend this gargantuan fraud.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
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    "On last Friday, 27 June 2014, wind generation in South Australia rose to match 100% of the state's electricity demand early that morning.

    According to data provided by the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), wind generation was easily the leading electricity generating source in South Australia for almost the entire week as shown in the graph.


    AEMO's daily market price data shows that South Australia also had the lowest wholesale electricity price for any of the mainland National Energy Market for the first six days of that period.


    This is the merit order effect - where wind farms underbid coal and gas fired electricity in the wholesale market due to their zero cost fuel, thereby lowering wholesale electricity prices."
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It took great courage for Lloyd to write up his expose of the tremendous damage being caused by a wind farm to a small community in Waterloo, north of Adelaide. Most newspaper environment editors -- from Australia to Britain and the US -- tend, unfortunately, to be so ideologically wedded to the supposed virtues of renewable energy they find it all but impossible to criticise it.
    Lloyd interviewed a number of victims whose lives had been ruined by the vast, swooshing wind towers looking over their homes. They found sleep almost impossible; they couldn't concentrate; they had night sweats, headaches, palpitations, heart trouble. Their chickens were laying eggs without yolks; their ewes were giving birth to deformed lambs; their once-active dogs spent their days staring blankly at the wall. The damage, it seems, is caused not so much by the noise you can hear but by what you can't hear: the infrasonic waves that attack the balance mechanism in the ear and against which not even home insulation can defend you. Its effects can be felt more than 10km away.

    Inspired by Lloyd's article, I went to investigate and was heartbroken by what I found. Until you've seen what it can do to people, it's easy to dismiss wind turbine syndrome as a hypochondriac's charter or an urban myth. But it's real all right. Waterloo felt like a ghost town: shuttered houses and a dust-blown aura of sinister unease, as in a horror movie when something dreadful has happened to a previously ordinary, happy settlement and at first you're not sure what. Then you look up on to the horizon and see them, turning slowly in the breeze . . .

    Even more shocking than this, though, were my discoveries about the finance arrangements and behaviour of the wind farm companies. What we have here, I believe, is the biggest and most outrageous public affairs scandal of the 21st century -- one in which the Gillard government is implicated and that far exceeds in seriousness and scope of the Slipper or Thomson sideshows.


    At the heart of this scandal are the union superannuation funds that are using the wind farm scam as a kind of government-endorsed Ponzi scheme to fill their coffers at public expense.

    Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

    What a load of unmitigated tripe, eggless yolks and deformed lambs, give me a break. There is no evidence to support wind farm syndrome and plenty to show it is a fallacy that has more to do with the power of suggestion. A modern turbine should run for about 120,000 hours, a modern car lasts 4000 to 6000 hours of use. A turbine on land should last 20 years before it needs a major rebuild of its moving parts. It's embedded energy should be returned after six months or so of use. It will run about 66% of the time and wind frequency is predictable thanks to modern forecasting models. Is it cost effective? probably locally and certainly in places that generate power using diesel. It didn't take courage for Lloyd to produce what he did, bigots only need a cause and ammunition drawn from whatever source no matter how contaminated and unreliable. There are currently calls to shut down some Australian coal fired power plants because they are pushing up the price of power (who would have thought it 10 yeas ago). A lot of articles are written simply because people can neither cope with change nor understand that everything is fluid and changes with time and technology. Alternatives will become increasingly more efficient as that is the way of technology, we need to remain mentally flexible to take advantage of change and the cost benefits it brings. In time current wind and solar will be redundant to either new generations of the same or possibly something completely different, who knows but articles written by individuals wishing to live in the middle ages should be treated with compassion but ignored as trivial, myopic and against the economic interests of the majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It took great courage for Lloyd to write up his expose of the tremendous damage being caused by a wind farm to a small community in Waterloo, north of Adelaide.
    Rubbish. If you know Waterloo, you would that it was a "ghost" town long before wind farms were built nearby. Others might have the benefit of ignorance. You might also know that the resistance to wind farms was fostered by sham organisations financed by the coal industry, of which the residents of Waterloo are unknowing victims.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The "global warming" aka "climate change" may as well be called "wet rain" scam is, in case you missed it, a political fraud.
    Anyone born during or after April 1985 hasn't lived through a month that was colder than average. That the wider population does not appreciate this is the real political/media scam.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    The ozone layer that shields life from the sun's cancer-causing ultraviolet rays is showing its first sign of thickening after years of dangerous depletion. It shows the success of a 1987 ban on manmade gases that damage the fragile high-altitude screen, an achievement that would help prevent millions of cases of skin cancer and other conditions.

    Oh dear, computer models were used to understand and predict the effect of human emissions on the atmosphere and action was taken as a result and fixed it

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...ering-25410598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The cost of the global warming fraud will one day be calculated in the quadrillions of dollars and in decades of de-development to the west.
    Quite possibly...but not for the reasons you might imagine.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Cape Wind project
    I have no in depth understanding of the Cape Wind Project. It is the first offshore wind project in the US apparently.

    One single project does not represent the state of the windfarm projects globally or in Australia. I'm waiting for the rest of Australia to catch up with the high wind farm proportion of electricity generated with zero consumables in SA. Those with a coal or gas bent forget that the ongoing cost of windfarms is just plant maintenance, they have no consumables. If you sit a coal plant next to a wind plant the the running costs are a significant % of the output of a coal plant, but insignificant in a wind plant. In 25 years the cost of consumables in a coal plant will be extraordinary but in a wind plant, they will be the same as when the plant was first installed: zero.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    At this stage and with the amount of information available, it is difficult to give the benefit of the doubt to the sincerity of those who still today support and defend this gargantuan fraud.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

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