Emission Trading and climate change

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  1. #12401
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    it has been shown over the last couple of pages, it's historical data showing no link between CO2 & temperature changes!
    Nope. The last couple of pages have shown no such thing. The only thing you have contributed for most of the last year is personal attacks and insults, like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    We can't help you if don't appear bright enough to work it out for yourself from there!
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  2. #12402
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    but the ball is in your court! We all wait for for your learned reply, (not with anticipation I must add) the drivel prediction calculator is already peaking already when you not satisfied with a world leading expert on the subject that shoots down your doctored data.
    According to you, one partisan and in no way a "world leading expert" on sea levels* retired hack shoots down hundreds of thousands of researchers and tens of thousands of scientific investigations drawing the opposite conclusion, your hack's opinion that doesn't agree with observations (did he "douse" his position with a Y shaped twig?), and you are satisfied. I am sure everyone appreciates your sharing of wisdom.

    What does Mörner base his beliefs about se levels on? He discovered a tree growing close to the shoreline in the Maldives and considered that evidence to support his claim that sea level had actually fallen rather than risen.

    *His area of expertise is paleoseismicity - the study of historical earthquake activity.
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  3. #12403
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    Climate change: The case of the missing heat

    Sixteen years into the mysterious ‘global-warming hiatus’, scientists are piecing together an explanation.



    15 January 2014 http://www.nature.com/news/climate-c...g-heat-1.14525
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  4. #12404
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Nope. The last couple of pages have shown no such thing. The only thing you have contributed for most of the last year is personal attacks and insults, like this:
    then it appears you haven't got much hope of absorbing anything of relevance when you argue with such wilful ignorance & arrogance of something so simple as a link posted so recently!
    inter

  5. #12405
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    According to you, one partisan and in no way a "world leading expert" on sea levels* retired hack shoots down hundreds of thousands of researchers and tens of thousands of scientific investigations drawing the opposite conclusion, your hack's opinion that doesn't agree with observations (did he "douse" his position with a Y shaped twig?), and you are satisfied. I am sure everyone appreciates your sharing of wisdom.

    What does Mörner base his beliefs about se levels on? He discovered a tree growing close to the shoreline in the Maldives and considered that evidence to support his claim that sea level had actually fallen rather than risen.

    *His area of expertise is paleoseismicity - the study of historical earthquake activity.
    maybe you could tell him yourself of what you think of such a highly qualified individual of academia who has a divining hobby, I'm sure he has dealt with many nitwits of the years & could respond to you personaly in the appropriate manner fitting your status.
    inter

  6. #12406
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Now the government is trying to change science by erasing references on the internet.

    They don't have to erase them...they just unlink them. They are still there if you know what you are looking for...
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    then it appears you haven't got much hope of absorbing anything of relevance when you argue with such wilful ignorance & arrogance of something so simple as a link posted so recently!
    That was just what I was going to say about your good self...

    Damn. I'm no more imaginative than Inter. Sad that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Climate change: The case of the missing heat

    Sixteen years into the mysterious ‘global-warming hiatus’, scientists are piecing together an explanation.



    15 January 2014 Climate change: The case of the missing heat : Nature News & Comment

    This is a slightly more recent re-cap from the same source plus it includes a discussion of sentiment I quite happen to agree with (so you have been warmed ...err....warned)

    Climate policy: Ditch the 2°C warming goal : Nature News & Comment
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  9. #12409
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    maybe you could tell him yourself of what you think of such a highly qualified individual of academia who has a divining hobby, I'm sure he has dealt with many nitwits of the years & could respond to you personaly in the appropriate manner fitting your status.
    You are so funny, Inter, so willing to look away so that you don't see anything that challenges your petty dogma.

    Divining as a hobby? He was offering University courses in it, something which won him the notoriety of being awarded "Deceiver of the Year" in 1995 by Vetenskap och Folkbildning (Science and Popular Enlightenment) in Sweden.

    The International Union for Quaternary Science (INQUA) dissociates itself from Mörner's views. Current president of the INQUA commission on Coastal and Marine Processes, Professor Roland Gehrels of the University of Plymouth, says his view is not representative, and the organisation has previously stated that it is "distressed" that Mörner continues to falsely "represent himself in his former capacity."
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  10. #12410
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    The whole temperature thing was/is a political construct. No climate scientist, or for that matter no genuine scientist of any background, has ever claimed that surface temperature was anything other than a proxy for global warming, one affected by the weather. Most climate websites are devoted to presenting the whole suite of climate change indicators:

    Indicators | Climate Change | US EPA

    Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Evidence

    Indicators of climate change | climatechange.gov.au

    Environments Climate Change Indicators - CDC Tracking Network

    https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...ate-indicators

    The science behind climate change - Met Office

    Understanding Climate Change | CSIRO
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    The federal Cabinet has ruled out the two options for downscaling the Renewable Energy Target which were recommended by the government's hand-picked review panel led by businessman Dick Warburton.

    Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
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  12. #12412
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    You are so funny, Inter, so willing to look away so that you don't see anything that challenges your petty dogma.

    Divining as a hobby? He was offering University courses in it, something which won him the notoriety of being awarded "Deceiver of the Year" in 1995 by Vetenskap och Folkbildning (Science and Popular Enlightenment) in Sweden.

    Tell these fellows that then
    Now comes a massive set of data that suggests there may be some validity to dowsers' claims. The encouraging words are contained in a study financed by the German government and published in the Journal Of Scientific Exploration, http://www.jse.com/betz_toc.html, which is a peer-reviewed scientific journal published at Stanford University.
    The project was conducted by the Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Technische Zusammenarbeit in the hope of finding cheaper and more reliable ways of locating drinking water supplies in Third World countries.
    Researchers analyzed the successes and failures of dowsers in attempting to locate water at more than 2000 sites in arid regions of Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia and Yemen over a 10-year period. To do this, researchers teamed geological experts with experienced dowsers and then set up a scientific study group to evaluate the results. Drill crews guided by dowsers didn't hit water every time, but their success rate was impressive. In Sri Lanka, for example, they drilled 691 holes and had an overall success rate of 96 percent.
    "In hundreds of cases the dowsers were able to predict the depth of the water source and the yield of the well to within 10 percent or 20 percent," says Hans-Dieter Betz, a physicist at the University of Munich, who headed the research group.
    he could have been offering PhDs in marbles for all anybody cares! But because that's just red herring nonsense to try & shift the focus off the real subject, fools will swallow it every time, which you have just proved yet again!




    The International Union for Quaternary Science (INQUA) dissociates itself from Mörner's views. Current president of the INQUA commission on Coastal and Marine Processes, Professor Roland Gehrels of the University of Plymouth, says his view is not representative, and the organisation has previously stated that it is "distressed" that Mörner continues to falsely "represent himself in his former capacity."

    What did you think they would say when they think the gravy train may stop if their found to be fiddling the books? Like that hasn't happened before!
    inter

  13. #12413
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    That was just what I was going to say about your good self...

    Damn. I'm no more imaginative than Inter. Sad that.

    "then it appears you haven't got much hope of absorbing anything of relevance when you argue with such wilful ignorance & arrogance of something so simple as a link posted so recently!"

    so you must be in a similar state! Your dogma has got you all by the *all / *alls
    inter

  14. #12414
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The whole temperature thing was/is a political construct. No climate scientist, or for that matter no genuine scientist of any background, has ever claimed that surface temperature was anything other than a proxy for global warming, one affected by the weather. Most climate websites are devoted to presenting the whole suite of climate change indicators:

    Indicators | Climate Change | US EPA

    Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Evidence

    Indicators of climate change | climatechange.gov.au

    Environments Climate Change Indicators - CDC Tracking Network

    https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...ate-indicators

    The science behind climate change - Met Office

    Understanding Climate Change | CSIRO
    if that's the case why do you persist in posting misleading land temperature graphs trying to display overall global warming rise since 1998 unless your trying to be a charlatan of great expertise.
    inter

  15. #12415
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    Now comes a massive set of data that suggests there may be some validity to dowsers' claims. The encouraging words are contained in a study financed by the German government and published in the Journal Of Scientific Exploration, http://www.jse.com/betz_toc.html, which is a peer-reviewed scientific journal published at Stanford University.
    I tried the link. I got:

    Not Found

    The requested URL /journal/betz_toc.html was not found on this server.

    Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) Server at Society for Scientific Exploration Port 80



    The idea that water flows in mysterious underground streams is just plain silly. Water will always be found once you bore done to the water table level. It's an no-brainer that a dowser can find water, when the water is everywhere to be found.

    In 1949, an experiment was conducted in Maine by the American Society for Psychical Research. Twenty-seven dowsers "failed completely to estimate either the depth or the amount of water to be found in a field free of surface clues to water, whereas a geologist and an engineer successfully predicted the depth at which water would be found in 16 sites in the same field...." (Zusne and Jones 1989: 108; reported in Vogt and Hyman: 1967). There have been a few other controlled tests of dowsing and all produced only chance results (ibid.). [In addition to Vogt and Hyman, see R. A. Foulkes (1971) "Dowsing experiments," Nature, 229, pp.163-168); M. Martin (1983-1984). "A new controlled dowsing experiment." Skeptical Inquirer. 8(2), 138-140; J. Randi(1979). "A controlled test of dowsing abilities." Skeptical Inquirer. 4(1). 16-20; and D. Smith (1982). "Two tests of divining in Australia." Skeptical Inquirer. 4(4). 34-37.]
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  16. #12416
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    if that's the case why do you persist in posting misleading land temperature graphs trying to display overall global warming rise since 1998 unless your trying to be a charlatan of great expertise.
    The graphs are the recorded temperature data - nothing else. You have access to the same data. Use it to create you own graph. Or explain to everyone why 10,000's of temperature recoding stations operated by 100,000s of people and several satellites operated by different countries are all wrong, but you are right.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  17. #12417
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    I tried the link. I got:

    Not Found

    The requested URL /journal/betz_toc.html was not found on this server.

    Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) Server at Society for Scientific Exploration Port 80



    The idea that water flows in mysterious underground streams is just plain silly. Water will always be found once you bore done to the water table level. It's an no-brainer that a dowser can find water, when the water is everywhere to be found.

    In 1949, an experiment was conducted in Maine by the American Society for Psychical Research. Twenty-seven dowsers "failed completely to estimate either the depth or the amount of water to be found in a field free of surface clues to water, whereas a geologist and an engineer successfully predicted the depth at which water would be found in 16 sites in the same field...." (Zusne and Jones 1989: 108; reported in Vogt and Hyman: 1967). There have been a few other controlled tests of dowsing and all produced only chance results (ibid.). [In addition to Vogt and Hyman, see R. A. Foulkes (1971) "Dowsing experiments," Nature, 229, pp.163-168); M. Martin (1983-1984). "A new controlled dowsing experiment." Skeptical Inquirer. 8(2), 138-140; J. Randi(1979). "A controlled test of dowsing abilities." Skeptical Inquirer. 4(1). 16-20; and D. Smith (1982). "Two tests of divining in Australia." Skeptical Inquirer. 4(4). 34-37.]
    If the article is over 2 years old it is only available to members only
    inter

  18. #12418
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    If the article is over 2 years old it is only available to members only
    Oh, I found the article. What I didn't find was any credibility.

    When others have done controlled tests of dowsers, the dowsers do no better than chance and no better than non-dowsers (Vogt and Hyman; Hyman; Enright 1995, 1996; Randi 1995). Some of Betz's data are certainly not scientific, e.g., the subjective evaluations of Schröter regarding his own dowsing activities. Much of the data is little more than a report that dowsing was used by Schröter and he was successful in locating water. Betz assumes that chance or scientific hydrogeological procedures would not have produced the same or better results. It may be true that in one area they had a 96% success rate using dowsing techniques and that "no prospecting area with comparable sub-soil conditions is known where such outstanding results have ever been attained." However, this means nothing for establishing that dowsing had anything to do with the success. Analogous sub-soil condition seems to be an insufficient similarity to justify concluding that dowsing, rather than chance, or use of landscape or geological features, must account for the success rate.

    dowsing (a.k.a. water witching) - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
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  19. #12419
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Oh, I found the article. What I didn't find was any credibility.

    When others have done controlled tests of dowsers, the dowsers do no better than chance and no better than non-dowsers (Vogt and Hyman; Hyman; Enright 1995, 1996; Randi 1995). Some of Betz's data are certainly not scientific, e.g., the subjective evaluations of Schröter regarding his own dowsing activities. Much of the data is little more than a report that dowsing was used by Schröter and he was successful in locating water. Betz assumes that chance or scientific hydrogeological procedures would not have produced the same or better results. It may be true that in one area they had a 96% success rate using dowsing techniques and that "no prospecting area with comparable sub-soil conditions is known where such outstanding results have ever been attained." However, this means nothing for establishing that dowsing had anything to do with the success. Analogous sub-soil condition seems to be an insufficient similarity to justify concluding that dowsing, rather than chance, or use of landscape or geological features, must account for the success rate.

    dowsing (a.k.a. water witching) - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
    That's ok you seem to only find credibility when it suits you.
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  20. #12420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    That's ok you seem to only find credibility when it suits you.
    The world is not a convenient set of facts. I am looking for credibility. Are you? Or just looking for convenient constructs to support your view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    The beauty of all this is that there is an increasing awareness in the general public that AGW is a crock. It ranks dead last in a poll of peoples concerns.
    Nope. Less than 20% of Australians think the government should not spend money mitigating climate change, and nearly 80% think the government should.
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  21. #12421
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The graphs are the recorded temperature data - nothing else. You have access to the same data. Use it to create you own graph. Or explain to everyone why 10,000's of temperature recoding stations operated by 100,000s of people and several satellites operated by different countries are all wrong, but you are right.


    "if that's the case why do you persist in posting misleading land temperature graphs trying to display overall global warming rise since 1998 unless your trying to be a charlatan of great expertise."

    Still trying & succeeding we notice
    inter

  22. #12422
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    Here is a GLOBAL (land AND ocean) graph:

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The world is not a convenient set of facts. I am looking for credibility. Are you? Or just looking for convenient constructs to support your view?
    WTF!!! well now it all makes sense! You disregard the facts but put all the onus on your own definition of credibility!
    too stupid for words.

    inter

  24. #12424
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    your trying to be a charlatan of great expertise Still trying & succeeding we notice
    I suggest you withdraw that post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Sh$t inter, you got me!!! Here is a GLOBAL (land AND ocean) graph (oh -wadda ya no - it the same):

    My goodness you just can't help yourself can you! You seem to have stopped trying to be a charlatan & progressed to the full blown stage! Try starting it at 1998 & while your at it make the temperature scale less sensitive so it doesn't make 0.1'C look like its significant!
    inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    I suggest you withdraw that post.
    what are you trying to do then with your misleading antics?
    inter

  27. #12427
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    My goodness you just can't help yourself can you! You seem to have stopped trying to be a charlatan & progressed to the full blown stage! Try starting it at 1998 & while your at it make the temperature scale less sensitive so it doesn't make 0.1'C look like its significant!
    inter
    Here you go, Inter, start year 1998. BTW, I don't set the vertical axis:



    The trend line is placed where the area between the trend line above the record it is equal to the area between the trend line below the record. There is only one possible position for the trend line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    what are you trying to do then?
    Post the truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    what are you trying to do then with your misleading antics?
    I suggest you withdraw or un-edit your post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Post the truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
    thats rubbish & you keep proving it time & time again. It's like Groundhog Day! Just like the last time you or one of your clones denied no significant warming since 1998 you have finally displayed a reasonably accurate graph after half a dozen misleading attempts which shows an insignificant 0.1'C warming over the last 16 years! Furthermore if the input data of the graph was from hadcrut3 it would show 0.01'C warming over the same period. I suppose you could always blame oldtimers disease for not remembering the old details of this specific debate which you or one of your clones was lost many many pages ago
    inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    tFurthermore if the input data of the graph was from hadcrut3 it would show 0.01'C warming over the same period.
    If you find a dataset that ignores significant areas of the globe and cherry pick the start time, this is what you get:

    HADCRUT3 global unadjusted:
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    I suggest you withdraw or un-edit your post.
    i will follow your example.
    inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    WTF!!! well now it all makes sense! You disregard the facts but put all the onus on your own definition of credibility!
    too stupid for words.

    inter


    Inter I agree this is how most ardent warmist think. The only facts and credibility are those that fit their view of the world.

    The one big fact that remains is that there is NO FACT that proves AGW will produce the temperatures that they claim or that it is as dangerous as they claim. There is no fact that confirms the theory of feed backs that lead to the temperature increases they claim. It is all theory that they consider credible and consider to be fact.

    Boy what are we going to do for entertainment when this is all over?

    Then there are others who simply accept what they are fed and know no better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Inter I agree this is how most ardent warmist think. The only facts and credibility are those that fit their view of the world.
    That is pretty much the same as saying: "there is no fact that proves computers or cars work".

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Boy what are we going to do for entertainment when this is all over?
    I am sure you will think of something. You guys have a very creative imagination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Post the truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Your truth John, only your truth. I sincerely believe you believe it is the truth. So not calling you a liar or anything like that, just simply miss-guided. Yes You can say the exact same thing of me, accepted.

    So why?

    The only reason is that there is no proof C02 is dangerous and that our emission will lead to dangerous global warming. What you and others consider proof and what I and many others consider proof is poles apart.

    That is why the science is far from settled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    The only facts and credibility are those that fit their view of the world.
    The only facts are the real ones that are actually happening. It is just that they don't fit YOUR world view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    That is pretty much the same as saying: "there is no fact that proves computers or cars work".



    I am sure you will think of something. You guys have a very creative imagination.
    That is so far from a reasonable comparison it is laughable. But is really shows just how blindsided you are to any other explanations, or theories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The only facts are the real ones that are actually happening. It is just that they don't fit YOUR world view.
    Right back at you.

    stalemate!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    That is so far from a reasonable comparison it is laughable. But is really shows just how blindsided you are to any other explanations, or theories.
    Nope. The science that underpins all technology is the same science that underpins understanding of climate change.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Right back at you.

    stalemate!
    Nope. You mock me for posting what is actually happening. Yet you only post unsubstantiated flimflam.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    I sincerely believe you believe it is the truth. So not calling you a liar or anything like that, just simply miss-guided.
    Thank you Rod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    So why?
    I am an engineer by training. I study cause and effect and I accept the laws of conservation of energy and the laws of physics.

    The change in the Earth's radiation balance is directly measurable. It is not a theory dependent on climate models or computer simulations.

    Global warming as a result of CO2 and other greenhouse gas increases is as inevitable as needing a pee after too much beer.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Climate change: The case of the missing heat

    Sixteen years into the mysterious ‘global-warming hiatus’, scientists are piecing together an explanation.
    Marc has stumbled upon an inconvenient fact highlighted by his past few posts: Oceans Are Getting Hotter Than Anybody Realized

    Oceans Getting Hotter Than Anybody Realized | Climate Central
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    "It's worse than we thought. Scientists may have hugely underestimated the extent of global warming because temperature readings from southern hemisphere seas were inaccurate.
    Comparisons of direct measurements with satellite data and climate models suggest that the oceans of the southern hemisphere have been sucking up more than twice as much of the heat trapped by our excess greenhouse gases than previously calculated. This means we may have underestimated the extent to which our world has been warming."

    The world is warming faster than we thought - environment - 05 October 2014 - New Scientist

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    Quote Originally Posted by john2b View Post
    "it's worse than we thought. Scientists may have hugely underestimated the extent of global warming because temperature readings from southern hemisphere seas were inaccurate.
    comparisons of direct measurements with satellite data and climate models suggest that the oceans of the southern hemisphere have been sucking up more than twice as much of the heat trapped by our excess greenhouse gases than previously calculated. This means we may have underestimated the extent to which our world has been warming."

    the world is warming faster than we thought - environment - 05 october 2014 - new scientist

    spare me please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    spare me please.

    “An important result of this paper is the demonstration that the oceans have continued to warm over the past decade, at a rate consistent with estimates of Earth’s net energy imbalance,” says Steve Rintoul, a researcher at Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation."

    Like I said Rod, the energy imbalance is measured, the heat has to go somewhere. It's called the conservation of energy and it is a principle that underpins ALL science and technology.

    I do take issue with the headline. No genuine scientist or engineer who has given any thought to climate change would be "stunned". It is the armchair commentators and media commentators that will be stunned.

    Experts Are "Stunned" By How Quickly Oceans Are Warming | DeSmogBlog
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    Flat Earthers resent Obama's jibe about not believing in climate change:

    “For what it’s worth, the Flat Earth Society doesn’t have an ‘official’ position on climate change.” President Daniel Shenton told Business Insider in an email from England. ”Personally, though, I believe the evidence available does support the position that climate change is at least partially influenced by human industrialisation.”

    Shenton said that Obama should refer to more mainstream groups — like the American Enterprise Institute — the next time he needs a joke in a speech.

    “So if President Obama wants to reference people that actively deny anthropogenic climate change, he’d probably be better served by citing groups like the American Enterprise Institute rather than the Flat Earth Society,” Shenton said.

    The AEI denies that the organization is skeptical about global warming, although that statement is difficult to reconcile with their website: Search - AEI

    The Flat Earth Society
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Flat Earthers resent Obama's jibe about not believing in climate change:

    “For what it’s worth, the Flat Earth Society doesn’t have an ‘official’ position on climate change.” President Daniel Shenton told Business Insider in an email from England. ”Personally, though, I believe the evidence available does support the position that climate change is at least partially influenced by human industrialisation.”

    Shenton said that Obama should refer to more mainstream groups — like the American Enterprise Institute — the next time he needs a joke in a speech.

    “So if President Obama wants to reference people that actively deny anthropogenic climate change, he’d probably be better served by citing groups like the American Enterprise Institute rather than the Flat Earth Society,” Shenton said.

    The AEI denies that the organization is skeptical about global warming, although that statement is difficult to reconcile with their website: Search - AEI

    The Flat Earth Society
    so you think your propaganda is more believable when it comes from the generators of the the most sophisticated propaganda ever designed who hold the highest office? just to snap you back to reality, this debate is centred around whether CO2 is causing what appears to be industrially driven warming, nothing has proved that out of the 20 or so factors that can influence the atmosphere CO2 in trace quantities has the ability to have more effect on the climate than any other factor. You have had more than enough chances & time to produce such proof!
    inter

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    [QUOTE=intertd6;950786]so you think your propaganda is more blah, blah, blah/QUOTE]

    Snap out of it Inter, just posted this for everyone's amusement. I didn't count on you not having a sense of humour!

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    You have had more than enough chances & time to produce such proof!
    Your statement begs the question: As a participant in this forum for many years, why haven't YOU posted proof of your assertions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    spare me please.
    Yes, it's getting like that, it's like talking to a JW that has a foot in your door. He KNOWS to be right and also KNOWS I am wrong.

    I never enjoyed so much being "wrong".
    Aaaaaah you sinners, pagan, miscreant, reprobates how dare you challenge divinely inspired wisdom?
    The world is HEATING UP, BURRRRNING !!! ......
    and it is all my fault ... well and yours of course and a few others, but that does not matter, what matters is that me and you we don't want to PAY for our wrongdoings, see, you are a stingy, egotistic, self centered, greedy, materialistic, rapacious, and usurious creature ... and me too of course ... ha ha.

    I love global warming, it is cosy and warm and all full of CO2 that is good for you. We all know that ... well not all, almost all. The farmers know it, the polar bears know it ...

    Ok I am off to refuel my boat with lots of premium petrol ( a product of fossil fuel ) An then up to burn it all for fun towing and getting towed. I must say that this thread is a special motivation to produce as much CO2 as I can.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9wmZwaXUWo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The farmers know it...
    Sure, some rural people are climate "sceptics", but what are the things farmers do know?

    Climate change and increased climate variability have already impacted severely on WA broadacre crop and animal production over the past ten years, with serious rainfall deficiency and frost challenging farm profitability and sustainability. Future climates for the SW of WA indicate the possibility of further rainfall decline and higher frost incidence.

    Project details - Grains Research & Development Corporation

    The head of one of the world's largest agricultural commodity trading companies is warning Australian primary producers to take climate change seriously.
    Olam International chief executive Sunny Verghese has told Landline that agricultural producers and processors need to take action now.
    "It is absolutely a reality that climate change is going to significantly impact agriculture," he said.
    "It impacts it both from the nexus it has with water, and the nexus it has with micro-climate as well, so it is probably the most important driver to future agricultural production, productivity and therefore price."

    Agricultural giant Olam International says climate change is 'absolutely a reality' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    Climate change will play havoc with farming, and policy makers and researchers aren't fully aware of the significance on food supply, according to the World Bank. Earth will warm by 2 degrees celsius “in your lifetime,” Rachel Kyte, the World Bank's vice-president for climate change, said at a meeting of agriculture ministers in Berlin over the weekend. That will make farming untenable in some areas, she said.

    Policymakers aren't aware of threat to farming from climate change, World Bank says

    ‘There’s evidence that the changes we’ve already seen in terms of climate change are having impacts on food production and food security, and that these changes are likely to increase very significantly over the next decade,’ he says.
    Adaptation strategies can take different forms. Incremental adaptation involves minor adjustments, such as changes to crop variety for hotter conditions. Then there are systemic changes. For instance, reductions in rainfall make conditions more marginal for cropping, but more appropriate for grazing. So integrating grazing with cropping is another strategy.
    Transformational change involves swapping from a cropping system entirely to a grazing system, or moving to a different environment to continue cropping. For example a farmer in Murrumbidgee in south-east Australia could move to the Northern Territory to grow rice.

    ECOS Magazine - Towards A Sustainable Future
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