Emission Trading and climate change

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  1. #14401
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Zombie attacks might increase due to global warming, study shows

    JANUARY 31, 2008 / BRIGGS / 53 COMMENTS

    A new study by scientists has suggested that zombie attacks might increase if the current projections of global warming are realized. “If the earth gets warmer, it means longer springs, summers, and falls, and shorter winters,” said John Carpenter-Romero, Ph.D., a zombie-ologist who co-authored the study. “And shorter winters means more time for the undead to prey on the populace.”
    Dr. Harrister, the other co-author, and head of Zombie Robotics at Wayward Robot, Inc., explained that cold winters typically stalled the walking dead. “It is well known that zombies can’t operate in cold weather. It freezes their brains.”
    The pair calculated a 32.782412% increase in zombie attacks if CO2 increased to twice its pre-industrial rate. “Clearly, this is a very troubling result,” said Dr. Harrister, “If we don’t do something soon, the streets will be filled with blood.”


    Update: be sure to read the follow-up post: Zombies no joke, global warming can cause anything.

    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Speaking of zombies, Abbott and the LNP have slumped to a new low in the opinion polls; it must only be a matter of time before a change of leadership becomes the only option. The latest Morgan poll also shows support for both the ALP and Greens rising strongly. If the inevitable happens can we then blame Tony's demise on global warming? It's all part of the conspiracy. Or maybe Hanlon's razor.

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    I think it is what happens when you choose a political warrior for his narrow brutal focus on issues and opponents while forgetting that you also need a leader capable of thinking broadly if you want to unite enough people to progress sound ideas.

  4. #14404
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Speaking of zombies, Abbott and the LNP have slumped to a new low in the opinion polls; it must only be a matter of time before a change of leadership becomes the only option. The latest Morgan poll also shows support for both the ALP and Greens rising strongly. If the inevitable happens can we then blame Tony's demise on global warming? It's all part of the conspiracy. Or maybe Hanlon's razor.
    Sorry Johnc, your reply is too loaded to be able to be answered without a "please explain" ... "brutal force" ... "thinking broadly" ... "sound ideas" ... completely subjective concepts.

    Opinion polls are a joke. Think about it. 100% of politicians abuse the overly generous traveling allowances using the family reunion concept for private holidays, and junket at all levels and all political confessions is a matter of fact for federal state and local morons.
    They singled out BB because of her position and because she was giving labour a hard time. The poor little sods, innocent vanilla dudes riding the high moral ground.
    They realised now that in a glass house you can not throw stones and made a truce so now liberals come out in defence of labour own rorts. Pathetic.
    If anything Liberals must be accused of going slow, too afraid of upsetting the Centrelink sponsored voter.
    The global warming scam is a scourge that affects all levels of government in all countries comparable only to the inquisition in Europe when atheism was a sin punishable with death.
    If we used half the energy wasted in debating pretend moral high standing in creating new sources of prosperity, the country would be much better served. Yet this will never happen until we can scrap the poisonous concept of prosperity being wrong, and will never happen with a backwards tax system that punishes success.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Yet this will never happen until we can scrap the poisonous concept of prosperity being wrong, and will never happen with a backwards tax system that punishes success.
    Well, Abbott is well on the way to moving the tax burden to the poor. The trouble is that they don't have money to pay taxes in the first place. I think there is a minor floor in you argument, Marc. The tax system only works because people pay in accordance with their means. Successful people use public resources to a greater extent. To paraphrase Kerry Packer, only stupid wealthy people pay tax. A user pays system would 'tax' successful people to a greater extent than our current system, not the other way around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    They singled out BB because of her position and because she was giving labour a hard time. The poor little sods, innocent vanilla dudes riding the high moral ground.


    Yes, BB has to slum it in cattle class with the rest of us. But luckily she always keeps some sanitiser in her handbag just in case.

    According to newspaper reports, BB misappropriated $260,000 in limousine hire falsely recorded as taxi fares just in the past five years. PS got a jail sentence for a few hundred dollars in misappropriated taxi vouchers.
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  7. #14407
    Senior Member Neptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Tell us what you think of Climate Change and Emission Trading,
    I think there is a huge amount of people that are very easy to con.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    or back off.
    I do hope that is not a threat Michael??

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post


    Yes, BB has to slum it in cattle class with the rest of us. But luckily she always keeps some sanitiser in her handbag just in case.

    According to newspaper reports, BB misappropriated $260,000 in limousine hire falsely recorded as taxi fares just in the past five years. PS got a jail sentence for a few hundred dollars in misappropriated taxi vouchers.
    And this post has what to do with Climate Change and Emission Trading?

    The trouble with you blokes is you're in so deep you believe your own BS.

  8. #14408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post

    And this post has what to do with Climate Change and Emission Trading?
    Good point. So Neptune, what has YOUR post got to do with climate change and emission trading?????

    Absolutely agree the post was off topic, it was in response to an off topic post by your champion poster (who's posts are 99.9% off topic), just like your post is off topic.
    Last edited by phild01; 16th Aug 2015 at 10:26 PM. Reason: insulting comment removed
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  9. #14409
    Senior Member Neptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    So Neptune, what has YOUR post got to do with climate change and emission trading?????
    Surely you can understand my post was answering Michael?

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Absolutely agree it is off topic
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    but was in response to an off topic post by your champion poster (who's posts are 99.9% off topic).
    Well actually he was a responding to these,

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Speaking of zombies, Abbott and the LNP have slumped to a new low in the opinion polls; it must only be a matter of time before a change of leadership becomes the only option. The latest Morgan poll also shows support for both the ALP and Greens rising strongly. If the inevitable happens can we then blame Tony's demise on global warming? It's all part of the conspiracy. Or maybe Hanlon's razor.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I think it is what happens when you choose a political warrior for his narrow brutal focus on issues and opponents while forgetting that you also need a leader capable of thinking broadly if you want to unite enough people to progress sound ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Apologies if you have a disability that means you can't read or comprehend simple English.
    As I said, you believe your own BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    As I said, you believe your own BS.
    So why did you quote MY post, FW? And why not answer the question: what does your post have to do with the topic? The 14 people currently viewing this forum will judge who believes who's BS based on who said what to whom about what.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  11. #14411
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    What chance is there that this won't be the hottest ever year...


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  12. #14412
    3K Club Member johnc's Avatar
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    Ok Marc lets spell it out for you, it is nothing to do with opinion polls. Abbott is still in opposition mode to function as a leader he has to sort his administration. That means formulating ideas, working with stakeholders and getting the public informed so he can get the legislation needed through. Other than a bit of opposition bashing he is not trying to spell out those ideas and he has burned those within his own party as well as those outside. Even the union RC which we need he has blown with his stupid captains picks and juvenile over reach. The blokes hopeless but the party does have talent, about time it pruned the deadwood and brought the talent to the front line it will be a one term government that quite frankly is worse than both the McMahon and Whitlam administrations.

  13. #14413
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Well, Abbott is well on the way to moving the tax burden to the poor. The trouble is that they don't have money to pay taxes in the first place. I think there is a minor floor in you argument, Marc. The tax system only works because people pay in accordance with their means. Successful people use public resources to a greater extent. To paraphrase Kerry Packer, only stupid wealthy people pay tax. A user pays system would 'tax' successful people to a greater extent than our current system, not the other way around.
    Correction... 50% of working people, not counting those on welfare of course, pay zero tax.
    That's right,they pay with one hand and get it back with the other, net tax zero.
    There is only one kind of tax system that is fair and just. Flat rate tax. everyone pays the same percentage. Why should one pay 47% and another 25 % and then get the money back in "benefits"(read vote bribe)?
    I do agree that a consumption tax would go some way to level things out. There was a proposal of a 2dollar tax on "everything" that was supposed to replace all other tax. Not sure how far out there that is.


    As as far as paying in accordance with their means, that sentence may be attractive to some for its emotional content, but tax is to do with numbers, mathematics.
    if a person earns 18,500 in a year, that person pays no tax. Fair? Not really, and if you consider that those who do pay tax will fork out one to three times that amount to subsidise this person even further, the fairness clearly is non existing.
    Now take someone that after decades of study,and sacrifice achieves a decent 200k a year. His marginal tax rate is 47%. Almost half of every dollar above that goes for tax. And as far as this pet myth of tax claims and deductions, when that may be possible in some cases, in many others it is not possible legally. Yes you can claim your home renovation on your rental, or you can claim your family vacation as work expense or you can take a gun and rob the next bank. Eventually you get caught.
    you would probably say ... Not sustainable.

    Flat rate is the answer.Everyone to pay say 20% from the first dollar onwards, or 25 or 30 the rate itself will need to be revenue neutral but it has to apply to every person that is alive and under 65.
    Had they done so with GST in stead of listening to the moron democrats ... Remember them? The fight tooth and nail to exempt books ... BOOKS ! Who buys books anymore?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  14. #14414
    3K Club Member johnc's Avatar
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    Everyone gets the tax free threshold, the scales are developed to ensure those on low incomes have a chance to meet the basics of life, when you think about it high income earners get the same low rates on their income it is only when income rises that your higher income gets heftier rates. There was a time when the top marginal rate was 66% and that high rate was brought in by Menzies and it was the Hawke government that reduced it, fancy that. It was also Hawke that reduced company tax rates. What has this to do with Labor/Liberal? nothing much it had more to do with who was in power at a given time and the economic winds of the time.

    Sustainable? well if you have had decades of study you would be a slow learner wouldn't you? really lets keep this sane, we have a mix of taxes coming out of households and social security going in, most Australians pay tax and most also get social security. Is the system sustainable long term, probably not but all sides have created this mess and allowed the cost of housing to go ballistic in the process, the problem isn't going to be solved by pretending one side has the answer because it is blindingly obvious that neither side has any answers at all. Labor is trying to pretend it is as good as the Liberals on economic management, the Liberals are trying to pretend they can do the impossible, neither side is being honest with itself if they think they have the smarts or ideas to fix anything or even if they have the answers engage the nation sufficiently to fix the mess we are heading into.

  15. #14415
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Well ... Basically agree with most.
    Yet would like to add that the reason neither party has a handle on things is that both have ignored the elephant in the room.
    basically the vast majority of Australians think that those who earn above a number that is sadly very low, are greedy,dishonest, generally bastards.
    when that may go well in a pub chat, it is poison for person and for a nation prosperity. Until that time the successful is the hero starting in primary school, basically we are screwed.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  16. #14416
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    The vast majority of Australians think that the government is not doing enough to prevent climate change:

    In The News | Galaxy Research
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  17. #14417
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    By the climate institute ... Ha ha, aren' they the one to lose the most from skepticism?
    I think in this "action against global warming" like those medieval churches built with the equivalent of billions, among a mostly pauper population. A form of advertising, grandstanding, and instrument for mass manipulation and delusion.
    the difference is that churches took centuries to become irrelevant. Global warming worship places will only take decades to turn into a monument to human stupidity.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Well ... Basically agree with most.
    Yet would like to add that the reason neither party has a handle on things is that both have ignored the elephant in the room.
    basically the vast majority of Australians think that those who earn above a number that is sadly very low, are greedy,dishonest, generally bastards.
    when that may go well in a pub chat, it is poison for person and for a nation prosperity. Until that time the successful is the hero starting in primary school, basically we are screwed.
    I think that the bigger problem is politicians going for short term populism most of our tax changes in the last decade have been knee jerk rather than considered. I think there is a general perception out there that high income earners should pay tax and we take a dim view of it if they don't and it becomes public. I don't think though that it applies the other way round. Tax shirkers are seen the same as social security fraudsters in both cases sponging off the rest of us, the opprobrium comes with the action not the income.

  19. #14419
    Senior Member Neptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    So why did you quote MY post, FW?
    To show that you are posting stuff that has nothing to do with the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    And why not answer the question: what does your post have to do with the topic?
    It was answered in my post at 6:03 Pm yesterday, the one that you quoted part of, before my post was removed and replaced, http://www.renovateforum.com/f187/em...tml#post981202

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Apologies if you have a disability that means you can't read or comprehend simple English.

  20. #14420
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I think that the bigger problem is politicians going for short term populism most of our tax changes in the last decade have been knee jerk rather than considered. I think there is a general perception out there that high income earners should pay tax and we take a dim view of it if they don't and it becomes public. I don't think though that it applies the other way round. Tax shirkers are seen the same as social security fraudsters in both cases sponging off the rest of us, the opprobrium comes with the action not the income.
    Agree again, there is however a lot of urban myth surrounding the actions of the so called rich.
    It is somehow comforting to some to project wrongdoing on the successful as if success is achieved by doing the wrong thing.
    "I am poor but I am honest" is a classic concept.
    I have seen in the course of 20 years of work in this field, a lot of fraud against the government and I can tell you that it is in no way the exclusive realm of the wealthy, far from it.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Flat rate is the answer.
    Flat rate is not the only answer. Better would be a flat rate tax on all types of consumption. If you consume then you get taxed accordingly

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    BOOKS ! Who buys books anymore?
    I do. Quite frequently. Periodicals as well. No way am I going to rely on the internet for all my information and entertainment...
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Yes, I wonder what happened to that $2 tax that was doing the round.
    Yes, I know I also buy the occasional book, but the idea that the Democrats "saved" the students from the grubby hands of Howard was laughable even then.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Australian companies, including the big fossil energy companies, have been found to be 'exporting' more than $30billion in profits offshore annually to avoid paying tax on Australian earnings.

    Multinational crackdown as firms avoid AU$31b in Australian tax | ZDNet

    At the same time the fossil energy companies accepted $1,712 for every Australian in government handouts.

    Australia still subsidising fossil fuels at rate of $1,712 per person a year : Renew Economy

    Shell paid $0 tax on $60 billion in Australian revenue over the past three years.

    Shell pumped $20 billion a year from motorists but paid no company tax

    If these companies paid the tax on the income they generated in Australia at Australian company tax rates, it would wipe out the deficit which has raced ahead under Hockeynomics.

    The slowest rate of Australian Federal Government debt escalation since 2000 was during the years of Labor government 2007 - 2013, when it was about half the rate of the current Abbott government, and about ⅔ the rate of debt escalation under the Howard government.

    History - Australian Debt Clock
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  24. #14424
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    Yes, I heard this latest "discovery" I say why did it take a French whistleblower to tell us they are robbing us blind?
    Companies abroad buy money at 5%, and lend it to their subsidiaries in Australia at 50% and since interests are a tax deduction the local company pays no tax. If I do that they would "discover" this quick smart. It is the same with mining that sell for a pittance to shell companies in Singapore who on sell at the real market price. If the common person has known this for decades, what has the ATO done?
    There is a lesson here. No one has broken the law. This is equivalent to the worker claiming laundry expenses. The fault lays square on the one making the rules. The latest "surprise"is rather pathetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Yes, I heard this latest "discovery" I say why did it take a French whistleblower to tell us they are robbing us blind?
    Companies abroad buy money at 5%, and lend it to their subsidiaries in Australia at 50% and since interests are a tax deduction the local company pays no tax. If I do that they would "discover" this quick smart. It is the same with mining that sell for a pittance to shell companies in Singapore who on sell at the real market price. If the common person has known this for decades, what has the ATO done?
    There is a lesson here. No one has broken the law. This is equivalent to the worker claiming laundry expenses. The fault lays square on the one making the rules. The latest "surprise"is rather pathetic.
    There is actually legislation on transfer pricing that is meant to limit the practice for companies, trouble is a lot sail close to the wind while others flout the law and get away with it. There is also the anti avoidance provisions in part 1VA it is very difficult to get this stuff through the courts, unless parliament adopt a bi partisan approach I can't see anything improving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    There is actually legislation on transfer pricing that is meant to limit the practice for companies, trouble is a lot sail close to the wind while others flout the law and get away with it. There is also the anti avoidance provisions in part 1VA it is very difficult to get this stuff through the courts, unless parliament adopt a bi partisan approach I can't see anything improving.
    It doesn't help that on several occasions Joe Hockey has publicly stated that the LNC government has no intention of pursuing multinational corporations which legally or illegally shift profits off shore.

    Hockey backflips on tax laws to target multinational profit shifters

    Joe Hockey steps in to protect suspected tax dodger multinationals from being identified

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...x.html?stb=twt
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    So what happens if I lend a few hundred K to my daughter at 50% interest and she claims in on tax?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It is the same with mining that sell for a pittance to shell companies in Singapore who on sell at the real market price. If the common person has known this for decades, what has the ATO done?
    Wasn't there an attempt to get mining companies to pay more, called a "mining tax" I think. Got repealed if I recall correctly. The fact that mining companies spent $22mil on political ads and donations had nothing to do with that of course.

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    Ha ha, good try but no cigar.
    Two different things. The current rules that allow companies like mining and oil and google and ebay and Microsoft and the rest, to legally circumvent our tax system is our own doing and our own fault and should have been rectified eons ago. To produce a new tax that would have been revenue neutral after the dust settles was a political banter comparable to Venezuela confiscating foreign assets or Argentina declaring war against Germany in March 1945
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Agreed, it wasn't a perfect plan.Let me know when the LNP produce a better one. Of course they're too busy right now with same sex marriage and their expense accounts to bother with such petty details but I'm sure they'll get to it eventually.

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    Funny how the anti-conservative crowd is always riding the high moral ground ... Almost not touching the ground, forgetting that they had 6years to do ... What exactly? ... Oh yes .. I remember now, encourage 50,000 illegals that will be welfare depending for 3 generation at best, sink the country in a debt spiral for the comrades to buy flat screen TV and the builders to swindle they way to 500% overpriced shade cloths and pink bats it is embarrassing to even remember rob oakshot and the rest of the clowns and parasites. Even funnier to think that the tax situation was exactly the same with Labour. Ah the irony!
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Funny how the anti-conservative crowd is always riding the high moral ground
    Australian debt grew at a compound rate of 11.2% per annum under Howard (3/96 to 12/2007), 4.8% per annum under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd (12/2007 - 9/2013), and is growing at 24% per annum under Abbott.

    Funny how you think simply reporting actual data is 'taking the moral high ground'.

    History - Australian Debt Clock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So what happens if I lend a few hundred K to my daughter at 50% interest and she claims in on tax?
    In what circumstances? Essentially non arms length, probably a sham transaction on non commercial terms,wouldn't get up. Plenty of these go before the tribunals, most fail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The day the Global Warming death spiral began
    The big steps are due to changes in mythology as even Jo Nova acknowledges.

    It's a bit funny why all the series you pasted end in 2013. I don't suppose it had anything to do with the fact that the rate of reporting of climate change has undergone significant growth since that date? Never one to let facts impinge on an ideological position, are you Marc?

    Daily Report: Climate Change
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe
    or back off.
    I do hope that is not a threat Michael??
    I think you should read the whole post, not just read three words so you can use them as some sort of inflammatory response. Here, read again:

    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe
    Neptune, what are you doing in this thread?

    You are not engaged in any Emission Trading discussion, you are just poking sticks at people.

    Tell us what you think of Climate Change and Emission Trading, or back off. There is enough touch paper around this discussion without you pouring petrol on the fire.
    I asked you what are you doing in this thread. You are not engaged in the discussion, you are throwing rocks from the side. It sure looks like you are just trying to ignite the debate rather than engage in the debate.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    Surely you can understand my post was answering Michael?
    And my post was asking you what you are doing in this thread because you have not engaged in the discussion, so John's post was entirely relevant.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The big steps are due to changes in mythology as even Jo Nova acknowledges.

    It's a bit funny why all the series you pasted end in 2013. I don't suppose it had anything to do with the fact that the rate of reporting of climate change has undergone significant growth since that date? Never one to let facts impinge on an ideological position, are you Marc?

    Daily Report: Climate Change
    Not to mention the simple fact: Science is not measured via the number of news articles, blog posts, youtube videos, etc. Unless the existing, published, Climate Change science is falsified, it stands.

    Given that the number of posts, blogs, news articles, etc have dropped away, there is an alternative explanation: We are now past the worst of the massive push by denialists in the media. They are losing the battle because they have not published significant science to counter the enormous amount of published science before us. Just look at the response by 'Climate Change is Crap' Tony Abbot: He's increasing his CO2 reduction goals ahead of Paris, a clear indication that he is caving in under public and worldwide scrutiny. Looks like votes are more important than his denial, makes him look like a hypocrite.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    The US banking giant Citigroup estimates that up to $44 trillion could be lost from US GDP if the world does not act on climate change. The flip side is that a shift to renewable energy would increase economic activity and boost GDP in the short term, and the freed up capital from reduced energy costs would also further investment and greater growth in GDP in the longer term.

    Cost of not acting on climate change $44 trillion: Citi

    https://www.citivelocity.com/citigps...on?recordId=41
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbe View Post
    Just look at the response by 'Climate Change is Crap' Tony Abbot: He's increasing his CO2 reduction goals ahead of Paris, a clear indication that he is caving in under public and worldwide scrutiny. Looks like votes are more important than his denial, makes him look like a hypocrite.
    A number of the Liberals and nationals do not accept the science behind climate change. Yet they all voted for the "direct action" policy and spending millions of tax dollars on a problem that they are sure is a hoax. They also support Julie Bishop going to Paris with a plan to reduce greenhouse gases; just as long as she doesn't take a helicopter to get there.
    Hypocricy...no, just politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    A number of the Liberals and nationals do not accept the science behind climate change. Yet they all voted for the "direct action" policy and spending millions of tax dollars on a problem that they are sure is a hoax. They also support Julie Bishop going to Paris with a plan to reduce greenhouse gases; just as long as she doesn't take a helicopter to get there.
    Hypocricy...no, just politics.
    Hypocricy, yes.

    Announce 'Climate Change is crap' but still claim they are doing something about it to appease the swinging voters. Hypocricy.
    Put in place a 'Direct Action' plan that rewards polluters and has no chance of meeting the targets. Hypocricy.

    Playing politics does not negate hypocrisy. Hypocricy is still hypocricy.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    But is it hypocrisy if you don't actually invest anything in your policy? Either intellectually or financially.

    Direct Action is not being delivered with new money...merely redirected money from other ideologically insupportable programs!
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    But is it hypocrisy if you don't actually invest anything in your policy? Either intellectually or financially.

    Direct Action is not being delivered with new money...merely redirected money from other ideologically insupportable programs!
    Yes, it's hypocrisy.... and lies... and Politicking.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Australian debt grew at a compound rate of 11.2% per annum under Howard (3/96 to 12/2007), 4.8% per annum under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd (12/2007 - 9/2013), and is growing at 24% per annum under Abbott.

    Funny how you think simply reporting actual data is 'taking the moral high ground'.

    History - Australian Debt Clock
    not even you can possibly believe that. Where you overseas whilst rudd/gillard/rudd squandered our money?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    That's the problem with debt, Marc. Sometimes we actually spend the profits rather than suck up the debts.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    not even you can possibly believe that. Where you overseas whilst rudd/gillard/rudd squandered our money?
    The figures presented on the website are based on publically available information. It's the same information that government, banks and financial institutions use everyday. You better hope it is correct because If the information is not correct, the economy is in even deeper dodo running on false data...
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Not comparing apples with oranges, Marc.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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    Budget deficit or surplus is the only way to compare. To graph debt pure and simple means nothing. A Nation with increasing revenues can have increased borrowing, or in other words, a debt of a million dollars may be different for you or me.
    Deficit or surplus is the right way to check the health of a company or a nation or an individual.
    By the way John, your inability to keep a level head in a debate is getting tiresome. So it is OK to post Green/Labor/Commie rubbish but it is not OK to post Liberal rubbish?
    We all know that politicians lie, that is their profession and their god and voter given right.
    I would like you to tell me what is incorrect in that graph of Labor tragic deficit, not the obvious notion that you dislike Joe Hockey because ... mm ... he is fat?
    By the way I only read the ABC link and boy oh boy is that trash! How easy is it to talk trash, polish a t#rd and add a pink bow to it ... or is it a green one? The ABC is ready for a purge Stalin style.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    ... to post Liberal rubbish?
    Thanks for admitting your Liberal party quote is rubbish. I agree with you.

    Those who want to ignore the science are increasingly alone. They are on their own shrinking island.


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