Corona virus

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  1. #2051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I suspect tho that politicians will be first in line at that particular trough as per normal political practice.
    Cynic

  2. #2052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Cynic
    With bloody good reason perhaps?
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

    Legal disclaimer denying responsibility to be inserted here.

  3. #2053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I'll be happy if there is sufficient vaccine for health care workers and the emergency services first. I suspect tho that politicians will be first in line at that particular trough as per normal political practice.
    The plan is to vaccinate health care workers, aged care workers and the elderly first. Planned date is March 2021. The rest of the population would then be vaccinated by the end of 2021. Vaccines only work effectively if a significant proportion of the population is vaccinated.
    Many politicians would fall into the definition of elderly.
    Note that this is a PLAN. It does not not forecast the future. The vaccine being manufactured may not get approved. There may be problems with the manufacture of the vaccine. There may be problems with the distribution of the vaccine.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  4. #2054
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    i don't know enough about the vaccine manufacturing process to say how long it takes but we seem to be able to produce a flu vac every year on short notice. My understanding is that we will make the vaccine here in Aus when one is approved. And that is expected to happen this month.
    ....
    I posted above a link to an article that discussed the different ways vaccines are made - some of the new vaccines under trial use new methods.
    Some of the new vaccines can take a long time to manufacture in volume, some need cold storage for transport - so it will depend on which vaccine gets approved as to a timeline for manufacture and distribution.
    There has been no data yet on how effective any of these new vaccines are.

    the current flu vaccine only works on the older flu strains, not the current one (you wait til the next year for that one) - so yes, it does offer some protection but isn't 100%
    so there is a chance any new corona virus vaccine might be like the flu shot - works on older strains only
    which leads me to this...

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....25.20219063v1

    A variant of SARS-CoV-2 emerged in early summer 2020, presumably in Spain, and has since spread to multiple European countries. The variant was first observed in Spain in June and has been at frequencies above 40% since July. Outside of Spain, the frequency of this variant has increased from very low values prior to 15th July to 40-70% in Switzerland, Ireland, and the United Kingdom in September. It is also prevalent in Norway, Latvia, the Netherlands, and France.
    there is every chance we will need to live with a mutating corona virus.
    lets hope it mutates into a more harmless variant.

  5. #2055
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    one for you Marc.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0up%20immunity

    Since no specific drug has yet been discovered, strengthening immunity along with maintaining a healthy living is the best way to survive this disease. As a healthy practice, calorie restriction in the form of intermittent fasting (IF) in several clinical settings has been reported to promote several health benefits, including priming of the immune response.

  6. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    the current flu vaccine only works on the older flu strains, not the current one (you wait til the next year for that one) - so yes, it does offer some protection but isn't 100%
    so there is a chance any new corona virus vaccine might be like the flu shot - works on older strains only
    which leads me to this...

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....25.20219063v1



    there is every chance we will need to live with a mutating corona virus.
    lets hope it mutates into a more harmless variant.
    As far as I know we still have only one strain of Covid-19. certainly it is evolving over time but it is still the same animal. How long this remains so is unknown at this stage but evidence suggests it is slow to change. Research has already been done on this; it gets a mention in one of the Campbell vids.

  7. #2057
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    Pfizer vaccine claimed to be 90% effective.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...ctive/12865626

    That this information was released just after the US election is purely coincidence.

    That the Trump administration is lying about their role in this is entirely predictable.
    https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/m...pfizer-vaccine

  8. #2058
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post

    That the Trump administration is lying about their role in this is entirely predictable.
    https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/m...pfizer-vaccine
    Gee it doesn’t take long, trust the Aussies to come up with a song.

  9. #2059
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Pfizer vaccine claimed to be 90% effective.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...ctive/12865626

    That this information was released just after the US election is purely coincidence.

    That the Trump administration is lying about their role in this is entirely predictable.
    https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/m...pfizer-vaccine
    yes, the timing is amazing eh?
    and Pence and spivs. well.

    anyway all that aside, the vaccine sounds promising in that is it using the new methodology of vaccine manufacture so high volume production is possible even tho transportation at -80c has its challenges. safety looking ok so far, efficacy? 90%? some doubts on how that is measured apparently.

    What the 90% efficacy means is that the number of symptomatic cases of COVID-19 per 1000 participants over a period of 7 days following the second vaccine dose is 90% lower in those that received the vaccine compared to those that received the placebo.


    https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...vaccine-trial/

    Is there enough data here to be able to tell how promising this is?

    “No, we need to know the spread of disease pattern in the placebo and vaccinated groups and also whether the vaccine prevented infection as well as disease or only disease.

    Why are they reporting interim results – do we need to wait for more data?

    “It is usual to conduct interim analyses during vaccine trials, so a trial can be stopped early if the vaccine is not effective or causes significant side effects. However to fully understand the contribution of the vaccine to disease prevention and control, the study needs to continue.

    Is this a published paper or early data – how confident can we be in it?

    “It is a press release – the company will be applying for regulatory approval/early access use in the USA and those data will be published in full by the FDA. I expect we will also see an early publication once the data are finalised. The study has been conducted according to good clinical practice guidelines with regular monitoring: we can expect the data to be reliable.”

  10. #2060
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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    anyway all that aside, the vaccine sounds promising in that is it using the new methodology of vaccine manufacture so high volume production is possible even tho transportation at -80c has its challenges. safety looking ok so far, efficacy? 90%? some doubts on how that is measured apparently.
    I hear on the news tonight Australia has ordered 10M doses, I dont know weather that is for 10M or 5M as you have to have two injections. The transporting will be the limitation as not to many places have -80C fridges.

  11. #2061
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    A few different figures being quoted for the temp needed to store this vaccine, Campbell says -18'C
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSAfRMrd8w
    Not an issue in most countries as other vaccines require similar temps.

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    There seems to be some confusion about the storage temperature for the vaccines.
    https://garycornell.com/2020/08/28/m...-requirements/
    It is a blog (and quotes from some unspecified document).
    Moderna vaccine mRNA-1273 -4F approx -20C

    Pfizer vaccine BNT162b2 -94F approx -70C
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  13. #2063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I hear on the news tonight Australia has ordered 10M doses, I dont know weather that is for 10M or 5M as you have to have two injections. ...
    This morning I heard this covers 5M people (10M doses / 2 per person)

  14. #2064
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    A few different figures being quoted for the temp needed to store this vaccine, Campbell says -18'C
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSAfRMrd8w
    Not an issue in most countries as other vaccines require similar temps.
    i didn't listen to his utube but I doubt he said that about the Pfizer vaccine.

    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    There seems to be some confusion about the storage temperature for the vaccines.
    https://garycornell.com/2020/08/28/m...-requirements/
    It is a blog (and quotes from some unspecified document).
    Moderna vaccine mRNA-1273 -4F approx -20C

    Pfizer vaccine BNT162b2 -94F approx -70C
    it isn't confusing, they are different vaccines made with different methodologies (there are currently 3 or so different ways at the moment, 2 are new vaccine methods)

    from the article you linked:
    That means dry ice level cold storage for Pfizer’s and an ordinary freezer for Moderna’s. A quick Google search shows that even a small -80c (-112f) freezer holding 6,000 doses costs about 13k by the way, so the costs of the number of freezers needed won’t be trivial. And, more importantly, I am willing to bet we don’t have enough freezers to store enough doses of the vaccine

  15. #2065
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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    i didn't listen to his utube but I doubt he said that about the Pfizer vaccine.



    it isn't confusing, they are different vaccines made with different methodologies (there are currently 3 or so different ways at the moment, 2 are new vaccine methods)

    from the article you linked:
    Am am aware that they are two different vaccines. I did listen to the utube and he does state that the Pfizer (and he identifies it as BNT162b2 ) vaccine needs to be stored at -18C. The document that I referred to states -94F. Someone is confused. I added the Celsius conversion. If you don't have time to listen to the utube just click “show more” and he lists key points.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    There is discussion of this in the comments of the Campbell vid, hopefully he will come back and clarify this, but it does appear he has made a mistake. Perhaps confused 18 with 80.

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    Reality check: 43,000 volunteers were in the trial. About half were given double doses of the wonder vaccine, 8 whom still got Covid, and 86 who didn't get the wondervax got Covid. No one knows if the risk factors were the same for those who got the vaccine and those who didn't. Either way the "90% success" claim result is based on the outcomes of a small fraction, in fact way less than 1%, of the trial participants. Buyer beware!
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  18. #2068
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Reality check: 43,000 volunteers were in the trial. About half were given double doses of the wonder vaccine, 8 whom still got Covid, and 86 who didn't get the wondervax got Covid. No one knows if the risk factors were the same for those who got the vaccine and those who didn't. Either way the "90% success" claim result is based on the outcomes of a small fraction, in fact way less than 1%, of the trial participants. Buyer beware!
    I was having some niggling doubts as well for pretty much how I saw this too. Maybe Trump has shares in it.

  19. #2069
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    There is discussion of this in the comments of the Campbell vid, hopefully he will come back and clarify this, but it does appear he has made a mistake. Perhaps confused 18 with 80.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1K8ZkA8ukk correction at 5:20.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  20. #2070
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Reality check: 43,000 volunteers were in the trial. About half were given double doses of the wonder vaccine, 8 whom still got Covid, and 86 who didn't get the wondervax got Covid. No one knows if the risk factors were the same for those who got the vaccine and those who didn't. Either way the "90% success" claim result is based on the outcomes of a small fraction, in fact way less than 1%, of the trial participants. Buyer beware!
    Vaccine trials are designed so that the risk factors in both the test group and the placebo group are the same. They take a random group of people and divide them into two groups randomly. Am I missing something?
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    Vaccine trials are designed so that the risk factors in both the test group and the placebo group are the same. They take a random group of people and divide them into two groups randomly. Am I missing something?
    That is ideally how trials are conducted. When the stakes are so high there is an imperative to take shortcuts and fudge procedures, sometime even falsify results. It's happened hundreds of times in all areas of science and especially medical research, so no one should be surprised. That's why studies are put through 'peer review' and replication stages, where other independent bodies use the same procedures to try to replicate the results, before claims of efficacies should be made. In the case of this Pfizer vaccine, that process could take many months or more likely years.

    I was absolutely gobsmacked when I heard Dr Albert Bourla, the chairman of Pfizer, make the vaccine 90% effectiveness claim on such low numbers with no quality assurance process in place. Irrespective of whether the vaccine is successful or not, he either (like Trump, Johnson, Morrison, et al) doesn't understand the scientific process, or he is ignoring scientific process and risking public health to gain a financial advantage for the company. If either is the case he is not a suitable person for the position.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  22. #2072
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    That is ideally how trials are conducted. When the stakes are so high there is an imperative to take shortcuts and fudge procedures, sometime even falsify results. It's happened hundreds of times in all areas of science and especially medical research, so no one should be surprised. That's why studies are put through 'peer review' and replication stages, where other independent bodies use the same procedures to try to replicate the results, before claims of efficacies should be made. In the case of this Pfizer vaccine, that process could take many months or more likely years.

    I was absolutely gobsmacked when I heard Dr Albert Bourla, the chairman of Pfizer, make the vaccine 90% effectiveness claim on such low numbers with no quality assurance process in place. Irrespective of whether the vaccine is successful or not, he either (like Trump, Johnson, Morrison, et al) doesn't understand the scientific process, or he is ignoring scientific process and risking public health to gain a financial advantage for the company. If either is the case he is not a suitable person for the position.
    I understand what you are saying and that you don't trust the vaccine companies.

    But:
    The 90% efficacy figure is quoted along with the following qualifiers. Namely that these are preliminary figures, no “peer review” has been conducted and the infection numbers have not yet reached the required statistical threshold to claim 90% efficacy. None of these qualifiers have been hidden.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  23. #2073
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    Pfizer haven't evaluated effects on pregnant women, children under 12 or older people!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Pfizer haven't evaluated effects on pregnant women, children under 12 or older people!
    So we actually only need enough for 5M people!

    (It's a joke. No need to dig out the census or anything)

  25. #2075
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    When you look at some of the more common vaccines like Salk for polio it tested 1.8M with 440,000 receiving the vaccine, 210,000 a placebo and 1.2M the control group that got nothing.

    The Pfizer vaccine used a much smaller number.

    I heard on the radio today that Russia has announced their vaccine is 95% successful (who would have guessed)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    I understand what you are saying and that you don't trust the vaccine companies.
    Not what I said. I absolutely do trust companies that conduct trials and properly interpret the data with mathematical statistical tools that are backed up and confirmed by the scientific peer review and replication process. That's how all of the wonders of science delivered the modern world we live in.

    What you are missing is that there doesn't seem to be any attempt in the Pfizer trial to take a representative random group of people and divide them into two representative groups of people randomly as per your remit. And the statistical insignificance of such tiny numbers in an enormous cohort of subjects beggars disbelief! Such small numbers are just 'statistical noise' at this point in time, and even if the vaccine does prove to be effective (and I hope it does) everything I said about this trial so far remains true.
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  27. #2077
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    Pfizer CEO Sells Stock Same Day as Vaccine Announcement

    Albert Bourla sold $5.6 million of stock as the company’s share price soared


    https://www.investopedia.com/pfizer-...m_medium=email

    Hmmmm........
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  28. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Not what I said. I absolutely do trust companies that conduct trials and properly interpret the data with mathematical statistical tools that are backed up and confirmed by the scientific peer review and replication process. That's how all of the wonders of science delivered the modern world we live in.

    What you are missing is that there doesn't seem to be any attempt in the Pfizer trial to take a representative random group of people and divide them into two representative groups of people randomly as per your remit. And the statistical insignificance of such tiny numbers in an enormous cohort of subjects beggars disbelief! Such small numbers are just 'statistical noise' at this point in time, and even if the vaccine does prove to be effective (and I hope it does) everything I said about this trial so far remains true.
    I agree. This method of re-inventing the process to make a "vaccine" is akin to the USA elections.
    Cheat, shortcuts, lies and blunders, falling over themselves to get to hit the pgnatta.
    Truly disgusting. Eventually we will have a vaccine. Once the population is used as guinea pigs to sort the crap from the one that works, and get paid in the process rather than having to pay for the trials.
    I know what I will do. Sit back and watch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Pfizer haven't evaluated effects on pregnant women, children under 12 or older people!
    I think that they normally test vaccines/drugs on healthy adults (not too old) first. Pregnant women (who obviously have a developing child “on board”) and children are more sensitive to vaccines/drugs. Older people tend to have degraded immune systems. If a vaccine/drug is not safe or effective for an healthy adult it probably won't be safe for pregnant women, children or the elderly. Being safe for adults, of course, does not guarantee safety for developing fetuses. Remember Thalidomide.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Not what I said. I absolutely do trust companies that conduct trials and properly interpret the data with mathematical statistical tools that are backed up and confirmed by the scientific peer review and replication process. That's how all of the wonders of science delivered the modern world we live in.

    What you are missing is that there doesn't seem to be any attempt in the Pfizer trial to take a representative random group of people and divide them into two representative groups of people randomly as per your remit. And the statistical insignificance of such tiny numbers in an enormous cohort of subjects beggars disbelief! Such small numbers are just 'statistical noise' at this point in time, and even if the vaccine does prove to be effective (and I hope it does) everything I said about this trial so far remains true.
    I obviously misunderstood you. When you stated “sometime even falsify results” I thought that you were saying that you did not trust them. I certainly would not trust any company that falsified test results.
    Do you know how the trial is being conducted?
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    I thought that you were saying that you did not trust them.
    We seem to be going around in circles. I don't trust the Pfizer trial because the reasons given above. I don't trust trials that are done with a commercial imperative and haven't been replicated. I don't trust trials where results are published on a tiny sample. I am skeptical of all trials in all areas of research, not just vaccines or medicine. Bedford's post saying that Dr Albert Bourla, the chairman of Pfizer, is cleaning up on the stock market doesn't boost my confidence in Pfizer's trial either!

    Do you know how the trial is being conducted?
    Only as much as Pfizer has said publicly, and what they said about the trial should ring alarm bells. I am not a statistician or a researcher, however I did tertiary mathematics and I have participated in randomised agronomy trials over several years, both in the implementation of the trials and the statistical analysis of the results. Without running the numbers I would guess that the statistical significance of the Pfizer results is approximately close to inconsequential. What has happened so far is akin to this: someone has tossed 50,000 coins into the air, and so far only 50 have landed: 5 heads and 45 tails. That could be (and in this fictitious example is) just random noise because the sample that has a known outcome is just 0.1% of the total possible outcomes. A lot more coins need to land before anyone would draw the conclusion that 90% (45,000) will land tails.
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  32. #2082
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    I'm not an anti vaxer far from it but I will be sitting this one out for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I'm not an anti vaxer far from it but I will be sitting this one out for a while.
    As will I and I suspect many others.

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    160,000 new cases of Covid-19 recorded in the US yesterday. By Monday the US will have recorded 250,000 deaths due to Covid-19. States with Republican governments are aomongst the worse affected (due to no or minimal public health intervention) with Texas leading with over 1,000,000 cases reported. The US is 3/4 of the way to having one citizen in every 1000 dead from Covid-19, and the infection rate is still accelerating with the death rate stuck at 4%.

    Meanwhile Trump has stacked the US Supreme Court with four of his sycophants, and since the election sacked a swathe of top Pentagon security officials and military chiefs replacing them with more flunkies including a Fox News reporter fanboy. Is it only me who thinks Trump will not concede defeat and may attempt a military junta?
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  35. #2085
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    With 4 vaccines that are in the testing phase and Australia has purchased some of them it will be like a smorgasbord as to what to choose.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...-know/12881428

  36. #2086
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    Manufacture of the Oxford vaccine has commenced in Melbourne so that may be the one we get.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...egins/12864072

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Manufacture of the Oxford vaccine has commenced in Melbourne so that may be the one we get.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...egins/12864072
    It is also possible that some vaccines are more effective for different aged groups and different “races”. So different vaccines may be offered to different groups. The elderly often get a different “mix” of flu vaccine from the rest of the population. I also suspect that the initial vaccine used will be superseded by more effective vaccines and we will be offered them in the future.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    The elderly often get a different “mix” of flu vaccine from the rest of the population.
    I think that is done automatically if you are over 65.

    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    I also suspect that the initial vaccine used will be superseded by more effective vaccines and we will be offered them in the future.
    I believe you are correct there as the Salk vaccine was replaced by the Sabine, don't know what they have now.
    The Covid vaccine will end up being absorbed into the Fluvax.
    When a vaccine becomes widely available it would be interesting what happens with overseas travel with the travel insurance and the recommended injections and if countries you go to will require a certificate to prove you have been vaccinated or will it all just fade into history.

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    One of the first groups to be eligible for the vaccine will be those working in aged care. Refusing the shot may be grounds for dismissal. Be interesting to see how they sort that out with the people who claim to be anti-vax on religious grounds. I'd guess vaccination would be necessary for anyone getting on any cruise ships. A group in the US tried to restart caribbean cruises; a few days out a few got sick so everyone spent the rest of the trip confined to their cabins. That would have been fun.

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    The claim to oppose vaccination on religious grounds is false. No religion forbids vaccination. It is a sad stretch from aloof parents who want to avoid vaccinating their children. I don't even want to try to outline the number of ridiculous and false claims some people make about their own religion. Not even the forever changing JW dogma instruct not to vaccinate.
    However in the case at hand, the new vaccine against covid, will need to be opposed not on religious grounds but common sense ... at least until we actually have a real vaccine.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Checking the figures today -


    Total Deaths - 907
    Total in Victoria - 819
    Total in NSW - 53


    Total for the whole of the rest of OZ - 35 !!!


    Look at NSW - 53
    Total Ruby P ~ 15 ( relating to NSW )
    Total Nursing H - 20 Penrith


    Total for rest of NSW - 18 !!!


    Total deaths for the last 20 days - NIL.


    Heard the other night that drug companies are indemnified by our government for any damages caused by vaccines.


    Is the virus over ? Do we really need a vaccine? Is the $1.8 billion warranted ?. Now an additional $800 million to build a factory to manufacture a vaccine - come on ... not for just the Covid virus!!!.


    Deaths from Covid in Taiwan population 23.8 million - 7, in Papua New Guinea population 9 million - 7. Why doesn't anyone ask questions?.


    Is our government thinking or is there another agenda? This must be the greatest scam/con of all time.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The claim to oppose vaccination on religious grounds is false. No religion forbids vaccination. It is a sad stretch from aloof parents who want to avoid vaccinating their children. I don't even want to try to outline the number of ridiculous and false claims some people make about their own religion. Not even the forever changing JW dogma instruct not to vaccinate.
    However in the case at hand, the new vaccine against covid, will need to be opposed not on religious grounds but common sense ... at least until we actually have a real vaccine.
    I think we can agree when the old and new testments and the Koran were being written vaccinations probably weren't an everyday conversation topic. Totally agree the anti vacination mob aren't basing their views on facts although in my opinion common sense is often the dumb mans excuse for taking a punt.

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    Taking a punt ... if you are talking about a chance that this confounded vaccine will actually be effective, let alone 95% effective, the common flu vaccine is about 40% "effective" the best of days, and that depending on the individual.

    Id I had to take a punt, I would suggest that a vaccine fresh out of the -70C storage facility will be about 20% effective the first time around and probably useless the second time around. Of course it is all academic since the manufacturers are protected from litigation thanks to my tax money.
    As for the -70C storage facilities ... I would like to see who has one. No medical center has it, so don't hold your breath.
    I think I take my punt and go fishing for Jewfish. They told me they are biting.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    WHAT DOCTORS HAVE LEARNED ABOUT COVID-19

    A Professor of Pharmacy at the University of Toronto sent this clearly worded update to his family. For this pandemic, there's a greater chance of survival for those getting infected 3 months later like June 2020 than those who got infected 3 months earlier, say February 2020. The reason for this is that Doctors and scientists know more about COVID-19 now than 3 months ago and hence are able to treat patients better. I will list 5 important things that we know now that we didn't know in February 2020 for your understanding:

    1. COVID-19 was initially thought to cause deaths due to pneumonia - a lung infection - and so ventilators were thought to be the best way to treat sick patients who couldn't breathe. Now we are realizing that the virus causes blood clots in the blood vessels of the lungs and other parts of the body and this causes reduced oxygenation. Now we know that just providing oxygen by ventilators will not help. We have to prevent and dissolve the micro clots in the lungs.This is why we are using drugs like Aspirin and Heparin (blood thinners that prevent clotting) as a protocol in treatment regimens in October 2020.

    2. Previously patients used to drop dead on the road or even before reaching a hospital due to reduced oxygen in their blood. This is called HAPPY HYPOXIA -- where even though the oxygen saturation was gradually reducing, the COVID-19 patients did not have symptoms until it became critically less, like sometimes even 70%. Normally we become breathless if oxygen saturation reduces below 90%. This breathlessness is not triggered in COVID-19 patients so we were late in getting sick patients to hospitals in February 2020. Now since knowing about happy hypoxia, we are monitoring oxygen saturation of all COVID-19 patients with a simple home use pulse oximeter and getting them to the hospital if their oxygen saturation drops to 93% or less.This gives doctors time to correct the oxygen deficiency in the blood and there is a better survival chance in October 2020.

    3. We did not have drugs to fight the coronavirus in February 2020. We were only treating the complications caused by it .. hypoxia. Hence most patients became severely infected. Now we have 2 important medicines FAVIPIRAVIR and REMDESIVIR. These ANTIVIRALS can kill the coronavirus. By using these two medicines, we can prevent patients from becoming severely infected and therefore cure them BEFORE THEY GO TO HYPOXIA. This is knowledge that is available in October 2020 … but was not in February 2020.


    4. Many COVID-19 patients die not just because of the virus but also due to the patient's own immune system responding in an exaggerated manner called CYTOKINE STORM. This stormy immune response not only kills the virus but also can kill the patients. In February 2020, we didn't know how to prevent it from happening. Now in October 2020, we know that steroids, that doctors around the world have been using for almost 80 years, can be used to prevent the cytokine storm in some patients.

    5. Now we also know that people with hypoxia become better just by making them lie down on their belly - known as prone position. Apart from this, a few days ago, Israeli scientists have discovered that a chemical known as Alpha Defensin produced by the patient's white blood cells can cause the micro clots in blood vessels of the lungs and this can be treated with Colchicine which has been used over many decades in the treatment of Gout. So now we know for sure that patients have a better chance at surviving the COVID-19 infection in October 2020 than in February 2020. Going forward there's nothing to panic about COVID-19 if we remember that a person who gets infected now has a better chance at survival than one who got infected early.

    Let's continue to follow precautions, wear masks and practice social distancing. Please distribute this message, as we all need some positive news.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

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    Seems like some people don't learn from Victoria's outbreak with security guards.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...pdate/12901894

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Seems like some people don't learn from Victoria's outbreak with security guards.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...pdate/12901894
    I think you will find security guards have been widely used, blame the guards, blame over sight, blame the fact some come from large families, blame the fact that some live with aged care workers, blame government, whatever you like, it will not fix the problem. We are learning as time goes on, what we need to look for is leaders accepting the lessons of the past to inform current and future decisions. It would seem in the main we have good leadership on Covid.

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    Whilst the maggot at qantas pontificates how there will be a compulsory request for vaccination to board a plane, the globalist are hard at plotting a big "reset" that will let us all poorer and more dependent, yet they are sheltered from all scrutiny from the complicit media
    https://youtu.be/9uho1oylOBs
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The truth according to the head maggot who turned his back on being an Australian citizen, spare me the fake news.

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    some of you read widely so answer me this? I haven't stumbled on an answer yet, or even seen the question asked.

    reports of the covid19 vaccinations say they stop people from getting ill and reducing hospitalisations - so, not a bad thing.
    but they still get infected.

    and we know the asymptomatic or those with mild symptoms can spread coronavirus so it follows that a vaccinated person can still get infected and spread the virus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    some of you read widely so answer me this? I haven't stumbled on an answer yet, or even seen the question asked.

    reports of the covid19 vaccinations say they stop people from getting ill and reducing hospitalisations - so, not a bad thing.
    but they still get infected.

    and we know the asymptomatic or those with mild symptoms can spread coronavirus so it follows that a vaccinated person can still get infected and spread the virus?
    lol. timing.
    I did have this question in my head for a while but haven't had the time to do much reading lately.
    this article today answers part of it...
    Do vaccines prevent disease or infection?

    The type of efficacy that's been reported for these trials is protective efficacy against disease — in other words, how well the vaccine protects people from getting sick.
    Whether or not these vaccines prevent people from getting infected in the first place is a separate question, and not one researchers can answer just yet.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...sease/12905654

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