Corona virus

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  1. #2151
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I do wonder about os travelling and people feeling the vaccine is the protection we need. Just because the vaccine protects the traveller it doesn't stop them from dragging it back into our safe haven.
    The protection the individual getting the vaccine needs but does nothing to the unvaccinated.
    I see Norman Swan talking tonight and he was saying we can benefit form getting the vaccine later as the UK and possibility the US will get it first and we can see the side effects on a large population.

  2. #2152
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I see Norman Swan talking tonight and he was saying we can benefit form getting the vaccine later as the UK and possibility the US will get it first and we can see the side effects on a large population.
    Same.

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    An unfortunate side-effect of the commercial imperative of producing a Covid-19 vaccine (i.e. so we can all get back to being the consumer bots we are meant to be and continue the movement of wealth from the many to the few) is that world-wide public trust in all vaccines has plummeted to an all-time low, putting public health at risk of reemergence of old diseases and giving the antivaxxer nutters a boost.
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  4. #2154
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    John I would expect you could back that notion up a bit more than "on the news tonight". Doesn't modelling show that claim to be unlikely!
    It wasn't a notion, it was something I heard on the news last night!
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  5. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    It wasn't a notion, it was something I heard on the news last night!
    Just some clarity, what you heard as news as being the notion.

  6. #2156
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    "Finding the original animal or 'patient zero' may be very difficult if not impossible"

    And determining whether the original animal or 'patient zero' was in a wet market or not is likely pointless - like trying to determine whether global warming started at a particular boy scout cook up.
    That is probably the point, the goal is how did this virus become so virulent, it would appear it may have been around for some time, including in the human population. If it is a wet market the lesson may not be the market itself but how many people came into contact with others allowing the virus to spread quickly. The other question is did it mutate from a relatively benign virus in the human population or jump from the animal kingdom.

  7. #2157
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    Very true Johnc, it is very important to trace the source from an epidemiological point of view.

    The problem I was commenting on is that politicians and other nutters like commentators on Fox, Sky and Murdoch papers, etc, want to make it a witch-hunt about blame, and that makes the important epidemiological task actually more difficult because it diverts attention and resources away.
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  8. #2158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    The protection the individual getting the vaccine needs but does nothing to the unvaccinated.
    I see Norman Swan talking tonight and he was saying we can benefit form getting the vaccine later as the UK and possibility the US will get it first and we can see the side effects on a large population.
    Dangerous procrastination.

    What happens if they discover a rare autoimmune reaction incidence, say 1 in 50,000?

    Does australia, say no? Does vaccine hesitancy grow substantially with the news?

    There is no such thing as an absolutely safe medical product. There are 2 risks - one is the vaccine, the other is covid. there is no chance, given the studies so far that the benefits wont vastly exceed any unknown adverse event.

    You have to balance one risk (getting covid) versus the other risk (vaccine rare adverse event).

  9. #2159
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    You have to balance one risk (getting covid) versus the other risk (vaccine rare adverse event).
    There is a third, potentially even greater risk from rushing to early adoption of an unproven vaccine - complacency. If individuals / health agencies and / or governments think that life can return to normal for people vaccinated with a 95% effective vaccine, and consequently remove movement and contact restrictions, it only takes simple mathematics to show that infection rates will accelerate, not decline. That would be the ultimate failure for public health.
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  10. #2160
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    Dangerous procrastination.

    What happens if they discover a rare autoimmune reaction incidence, say 1 in 50,000?

    Does australia, say no? Does vaccine hesitancy grow substantially with the news?
    Plenty of questions but no answers from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    There is no such thing as an absolutely safe medical product. There are 2 risks - one is the vaccine, the other is covid. there is no chance, given the studies so far that the benefits wont vastly exceed any unknown adverse event.

    You have to balance one risk (getting covid) versus the other risk (vaccine rare adverse event).
    The rare and adverse event is grist for the mill for the anti vaxers but from what I have read it doesn't stop the infection but it stops the person receiving the vaccine reacting to the disease and the jury is out as to whether the person who has had the vaccine and get Covid can transmit the disease to un vaccinated people.

    You are correct in what you are saying but what is the answer?

  11. #2161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Plenty of questions but no answers from me.



    The rare and adverse event is grist for the mill for the anti vaxers but from what I have read it doesn't stop the infection but it stops the person receiving the vaccine reacting to the disease and the jury is out as to whether the person who has had the vaccine and get Covid can transmit the disease to un vaccinated people.

    You are correct in what you are saying but what is the answer?
    The data at the moment is that the CHadox1 vaccine is sterilizing (cannot pass it on), but this is unknown for mRNA vaccines because they didnt construct their trials this way, though there are primate studies for moderna which imply this is the case.

    The obvious impact of the clinical data thus far, is that Chadox1 should be given to younger people, and mRNA vax should be reserved for high risk people - say over 55's.

    There is no answer, but delay has downsides, and while it makes some vaccine hesitant people more confident, it also has a potential downsde of creating grist for the mill.

    There's also a quality of life issue within aged care - right now, its extremely restricted for visitors, and any outbreak makes it substantially worse - these are people with a very short life expectany, and we are willingly making their last months, years worse than they already are - to me, the very moment we can secure 1m pfizer vaccines, we should be distributing it to the top 1m highest risk- thats probably everyone over 80.

    it will be interesting how the media develops over Australias very conservative stance here - there will be some pushback in europe for sure given the politics of this.

    frankly, I wouldnt mind at all if its non sterilising immunity, and all the vaccine "hesitants"as they claim (I'm not anti-vax BUT.....), all get covid and get to experience it- they will get no sympathy from me. Not very charitable I know, sometimes though, people deserve the outcomes of their own decisions

  12. #2162
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    Not very charitable I know, sometimes though, people deserve the outcomes of their own decisions
    The Covid-19 pandemic is just the last of a very long string of adverse outcomes from decisions, none personally made, but made on our behalf by the powerful elite collectively acting against the best advice and knowledge of the time. Victim blaming has become the peak modus operandi of 21st century politics to obfuscate sound reasoning.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  13. #2163
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    There is no answer, but delay has downsides, and while it makes some vaccine hesitant people more confident, it also has a potential downsde of creating grist for the mill.
    I would disagree as delaying it to see any side effects that were unexpected from a very large group of people not like a small number. I did mention polio and it was tested on 1.8m people first. As for the covid vaccine there are many different people in the community with many many different ailments or treatment eg Hypertension, diabetes, cancer and those on treatment for cancer and many of these people will get he vaccine and there side effects or lack of will rear its head.
    I'll be one of the hesitant ones even though I am not an anti vaxer.

  14. #2164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I would disagree as delaying it to see any side effects that were unexpected from a very large group of people not like a small number. I did mention polio and it was tested on 1.8m people first. As for the covid vaccine there are many different people in the community with many many different ailments or treatment eg Hypertension, diabetes, cancer and those on treatment for cancer and many of these people will get he vaccine and there side effects or lack of will rear its head.
    I'll be one of the hesitant ones even though I am not an anti vaxer.
    The people who cannot be given a vaccine, eg those on immune treatment for cancer (note hypertension, diabetes are included in the trials), and the immunocompromised depend on healthier people to take the vaccine, reach herd immunity and thus also protect those that cannot be vaccinated themselves.

    The FDA told pfizer and moderna to narrow their exclusions down so that high risk patients were enrolled, and the trials were reflective of the broader community, so there is no reason to expected sudden unexpected adverse events in the wider community, because there is already 45ooo of them having being tested in a controlled study.

    I suspect that the vaccine hesitants are more likely to be scared of by very rare adverse effects, even against such a high risk high incidence disease

  15. #2165
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    It's fairly obvious that Quarantine is the biggest risk for Australia getting outbreaks into the general public, here is the latest.

    Seriously do we have the local Circus in charge of these sort of things !!!!!
    Also these two from Victoria must have known of the mandatory requirements to quarantine in your arrival city before they boarded the overseas flight ?

    Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

    The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

    The travellers boarded Virgin Airways flight VA 838 from Sydney to Melbourne, departing Sydney at 12:00pm and arriving in Melbourne at 1:30pm on Saturday afternoon.

    Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) for further instructions.

    Anyone who was at the Melbourne Airport Domestic Terminal 3 on Saturday afternoon is advised to monitor for COVID-19 symptoms and to seek testing if symptoms develop.
    A Virgin Australia spokeswoman said 130 people were on the domestic flight.

    "Upon being informed these guests had travelled on our aircraft without entering hotel quarantine, we removed the aircraft from service to perform a deep clean, as a precautionary measure," she said.

    "We have passed on the passenger manifest to the relevant health authorities to assist them in contacting the passengers on the flight, and we have been in contact with the crew operating the flight."

    The two passengers did not enter Australia on a Virgin flight, the spokeswoman said.
    The DHHS maintains that Melbourne Airport is not a current risk to the public.

    Victorian Health Minister Martin Foley said the department was managing a "full and immediate public health response … including testing and contact tracing".
    "We've been made aware of an incident at Sydney Airport in which two international travellers from the same family were allowed to board a domestic flight to Melbourne without going through the mandatory quarantine process in New South Wales," Mr Foley said.

    "The travellers were stopped at Melbourne Airport and will now spend their two in weeks in quarantine here.
    "I've spoken to [NSW Health] Minister [Brad] Hazzard to seek an explanation as to how it was that the security arrangements at Sydney Airport saw the two passengers avoid their hotel quarantine obligations in Sydney and travel to Melbourne.

    "He has assured me a full investigation will be completed so it cannot occur again."
    A spokeswoman said NSW Police was also aware of the matter and was conducting further inquiries.

    Victoria reported zero new cases of coronavirus on Saturday, for the 36th day running.
    It was expected that Premier Daniel Andrews would announce a further easing of restrictions in hospitality venues on Sunday, however it is yet to be seen whether Saturday's developments will have any impact.

    In a further easing of restrictions, Victoria will begin accepting international flights to Melbourne Airport from Monday as a revamped hotel quarantine program gets underway.
    The Victorian Government expects 172 ADF personnel on duty to temperature-check staff and help manage the entry and exit of travellers to the hotels.

    In NSW, there were also zero new locally-acquired cases reported on Saturday, with two new cases detected in overseas travellers in hotel quarantine.
    It's the second day without a new case in the community after a quarantine hotel worker unknowingly caught public transport while infected.


    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  16. #2166
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    Bit hard to pick your words from the quote as the txt is the same.

  17. #2167
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    Lots of questions here and it seems like I'm not the only one.

    The Pfizer vaccine now approved in UK being a desperate measure might not be the best but from a financial point of view it is a coup for the company.

    I have watched all the info come via the ABC and I have never heard of this

    This thirst for information on the vaccine is highlighted by the ABC's Hearken project, which has been collating audience questions throughout the pandemic.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...ience/12950608

  18. #2168
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The Covid-19 pandemic is just the last of a very long string of adverse outcomes from decisions, none personally made, but made on our behalf by the powerful elite collectively acting against the best advice and knowledge of the time. Victim blaming has become the peak modus operandi of 21st century politics to obfuscate sound reasoning.
    Couldn't agree more. Rabbits and cane toads are just one of many idiotic one, pink batts and greyhounds do come to mind together with the 70ties lebanese "refugees" and the 90ties Sudanese "refugees" ... Princess cruisers let them in, hire guards via text and so many more!
    Only one reason that this will repeat itself ad libitum ... NO CONSEQUENCES.
    Why is the responsible for renting the port of Darwin and the Keswick island to chinese not in gaol, and why are the chinese still there?

    Our politicians do not represent us, nor the interest of Australia, only their own.
    Unless we start prosecuting them for their shortcomings we will always have this morons, who are professionals only in pretending to be what their very expensive and numerous courtesans, aka advisers, tell them we like to hear.

    I have a sign on my veranda ... it reads "Be the man your dog thinks you are"
    Politicians should have one in their office that says ... " Try your best to be half the man voters think you are"
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    ...
    Also were these two from Victoria must have known of the mandatory requirements to quarantine in your arrival city before they boarded the overseas flight ?
    ...
    They aren't Victorians, they are German travelers.

    Not everyone who arrives in Sydney wants to stay there

  20. #2170
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    There have been numerous reports that whilst the novel mRNA based vaccines, currently being raced out years in advance of 'normal' clinical trials, might protect up to 95% of the recipients against the Covid-19 disease, the vaccines may not stop vaccine recipients from being Covid-19 carriers.

    The vaccine fever gripping the US, UK and Russia could backfire with a vengeance.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  21. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The vaccine fever gripping the US, UK and Russia could backfire with a vengeance.
    I hope you are wrong for the sake of the people getting the vaccine. I thought it had been approved and there was going to be emergency vaccinations but I was wrong it was emergency approval with the regulators not thoroughly evaluating the testing. The emergency approval was seen as a better option than rampant virus and the possible side effects would be no where near as bad as the epidemic, you could maybe say clutching at straws in a sophisticated way.

  22. #2172
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    .

    The vaccine fever gripping the US, UK and Russia could backfire with a vengeance.
    How could it possibly backfire/

    The cost of doing nothing is 500 people dead a day in the UK - its hard to even imagine a downside within an order of magnitude or 2 lower

    Transmission is not the major goal of a vaccine- -its protection from disease. blocking Transmission in the main is an advantage for the occasional person who is contraindicated, and the anti-vaxxers - sorry, i mean vaccine careful, hesitant or whatever they call themselves now

  23. #2173
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    Transmission is not the major goal of a vaccine- -its protection from disease
    At this stage. This is a pretty good explanation of the vaccine and the future direction these vaccines are going.

    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/program...covid/12957988

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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy2 View Post
    Transmission is not the major goal of a vaccine- -its protection from disease.
    That seems to be a departure from past vaccines, the goal of which according to The World Health Organisation in a public health context is reducing transmission of disease and a major step in disease elimination.

    But these early Covid-19 'vaccines' do not work that way, so I guess no one will be disappointed when herd immunity and/or elimination of the disease does not follow from a wide-scale international vaccination program.

    But if you are fortunate enough to be 'vaccinated' and still get infected with Covid-19 you'll 95% likely be fine, but could still pass Covid-19 to your family, friends and others you come into contact with who may become ill.
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    The latest new from the UK which started it's immunisation program a day ago is that "vaccinations should not be carried out in facilities that did not have resuscitation equipment"(!) after two recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine have had "serious adverse reactions".

    In the stampede to circumvent normal regulatory procedures and be 'first to market' vaccine trial recipients were handpicked to exclude some (or was that many?) high risk categories, so it's hardly surprising that cracks are being exposed during the public rollout of the vaccine.
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  26. #2176
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    The latest new from the UK which started it's immunisation program a day ago is that "vaccinations should not be carried out in facilities that did not have resuscitation equipment"(!) after two recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine have had "serious adverse reactions".
    .
    There is a bit more as it was those who have allergic reactions in the past and who carry epi pens, something not recognised in the trial and I’m sure more will surface.
    I did hear on the news Phil and Liz were going to get the vac but I wonder if it comes to pass.

  27. #2177
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    It is quite normal to get adverse reactions from vaccines. I have no allergies. Whenever I have a vaccine or injected drug I am told to wait for ten minutes before leaving. This is to make sure I have no adverse reaction. Influenza vaccine has been around for many years and I have taken it for many years but there is still a chance of an adverse reaction even with a tried and tested vaccine. The two people in the UK that had the adverse reaction did need medical treatment but recovered within 24 hours.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  28. #2178
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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    It is quite normal to get adverse reactions from vaccines...
    ...but a health directive to have resuscitation equipment on standby for a vaccine prick is far from normal. That's going to play havoc with the UK's guvmint's intention to roll out millions of doses of vaccine through clinics, pop-ups, and other non-hospital sites.
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    I have a feeling that the UK roll-out is a massive PR exercise and they are giving the vaccine to the wrong people first.
    Although they may deliberately not be treating health care and emergency services people first and using the "disposable" members of society as the guinea pigs.
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

    Legal disclaimer denying responsibility to be inserted here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I have a feeling that the UK roll-out is a massive PR exercise and they are giving the vaccine to the wrong people first.
    Although they may deliberately not be treating health care and emergency services people first and using the "disposable" members of society as the guinea pigs.
    Cynic, my old man had a saying to us when we wouldn't help that was "wear out the old man first" maybe the same here.

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    As I said before I'm not an anti vacc but I think this is taking it a bit to far mandating it for schools.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...tion-c-1736501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I have a feeling that the UK roll-out is a massive PR exercise and they are giving the vaccine to the wrong people first.
    Although they may deliberately not be treating health care and emergency services people first and using the "disposable" members of society as the guinea pigs.
    The two people that had the adverse reactions were both National Health Workers. They were not in the over 80 group. Source BBC News.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    ...but a health directive to have resuscitation equipment on standby for a vaccine prick is far from normal. That's going to play havoc with the UK's guvmint's intention to roll out millions of doses of vaccine through clinics, pop-ups, and other non-hospital sites.
    CPR equipment is ubiquitous. Shopping centres, factories, churches, schools and lots of places have such equipment. People to operate CPR equipment effectively is a much more scarce resource though.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  34. #2184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I have a feeling that the UK roll-out is a massive PR exercise and they are giving the vaccine to the wrong people first.
    ....
    I was a bit surprised because we kept hearing about the elderly have compromised immune systems which might not respond well to a vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    As I said before I'm not an anti vacc but I think this is taking it a bit to far mandating it for schools.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...tion-c-1736501
    and likewise, how we were told coronavirus is not a problem for kids.

    tho I do know teachers and staff who had concerns for themselves being around so many kids who may/not have been carriers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    CPR equipment is ubiquitous.
    A standalone CPR station is not all that's needed for resuscitation from anaphylactic shock, which typically includes trained clinicians and access to supervised administration of adrenalin, oxygen, intravenous fluids, antihistamines, corticosteroids, bronchodilators, vasopressor and inotrope drugs, and access to a 12-lead ECG, chest X-rays, urea and electrolytes, arterial blood gases etc, and a bed to lie one while hooked up to all this gear.

    The MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency UK) advice for Covid-19 vaccinations states: “Resuscitation facilities should be available at all times for all vaccinations. Vaccination should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available.”
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  36. #2186
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 130818420_3614793081890984_4746723725871137168_n.jpg  
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    but, but, if it's on the internet it must be true?

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    From the SMH today:

    A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.
    UQ, working in partnership with Australian global biotech company CSL, will abandon its current clinical trials following the discovery.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    I was a bit surprised because we kept hearing about the elderly have compromised immune systems which might not respond well to a vaccine

    .
    The most at risk of catching Covid 19 and those with the worst outcomes of catching Covid 19 were prioritised. Due to the logistics of the Pfizer vaccine (storage at -70 C and batch sizes of nearly 1000) it was decided to not vaccinate care home residents in situ. The vaccine can only be administered in hospitals at the moment and the risk of transporting the care home residents to hospital would be considered to be too great a risk for the majority.

    People getting the vaccine first are care home staff and those in category 2 of the priority list.
    UK priority list.
    1 Care home residents and staff.
    2 NHS staff, front-line health and social care workers, and all those aged 80 and over.
    3 All those aged 75 and over.
    4 All those aged 70 and over and those judged clinically extremely vulnerable individuals (not including pregnant women and those under 18).
    5 All those aged 65 and over.
    6 All individuals aged 16 to 64 with underlying health conditions.
    7 All of those 60 and over.
    8 All of those 55 years and over
    9 All of those 50 years and over.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  40. #2190
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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    UK priority list...
    Funny, the priority list for vaccine recipients seems to resemble the list of people excluded from Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine trials.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Funny, the priority list for vaccine recipients seems to resemble the list of people excluded from Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine trials.
    LOL you could be right. I don't have the Pfizer exclusion list. Can you post it so we can compare the two?
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by joynz View Post
    Though there could be regulations about needing it to participate in certain occupations etc...
    It does not necessarily have to be made mandatory by law. I don't know if it would be legal here.

    Cornell University already mandates that most of their students have to be vaccinated against Influenza.

    https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=16344
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    LOL you could be right. I don't have the Pfizer exclusion list. Can you post it so we can compare the two?
    I don't have the selection criteria for trial participants, but here are some age figures from the trial summary: 16-55 years old = 58%, 55-65 = 20%, 65-75 = 17%, >75 = 4%.

    Most of the trial participants did not have a comorbidity, and for those that did by far the most common comorbidity was obesity.

    There were significant numbers of people from older age groups in the sample, but I suspect that the age profile and comorbidity rates of the high priority vaccine recipients in the UK deployment plan are still significantly at odds with the trial group.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    I don't have the selection criteria for trial participants, but here are age some figures from the trial summary: 16-55 years old = 58%, 55-65 = 20%, 65-75 = 17%, >75 = 4%.

    Most of the trial participants did not have a comorbidity, and for those that did by far the most common comorbidity was obesity.

    There were significant numbers of people from older age groups in the sample, but I suspect that the age profile and comorbidity rates of the high priority vaccine recipients in the UK deployment plan are still significantly at odds with the trial group.
    So they biased the trial towards the elderly, the people that would benefit the most from the vaccine, and they biased the morbidity sample to the most common “disease” in the western world. What were they thinking?
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    So today the USA tops out* with 50,000 covid cases per 1,000,000 people. That's one person in twenty, or equivalent to 1.3 million Covid infected Australians based on population sizes.

    The US death rate is still around 3%; equivalent to ~40,000 deaths in a population of Australia's size. Fortunately we have only had 908 deaths, or ~1/50th of the per capita US deaths. Australia's control of infection rate was not "trumped".

    Actually, if everyone on the US was vaccinated, the US death rates would be something like Australia's vaccine naive population. There's a lesson there.

    * Not really tops out, just a new record, because Covid rates are still accelerating in the US.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Not knowing in depth about the US health system only to the extent it is expensive and not free like here I have been wondering who is picking up the tab for those hospitised without health insurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    ..the US health system... who is picking up the tab for those hospitalised without health insurance?
    Hospital bills for uninsured US Covid-19 patients are covered under Obama Care but under Trump that seems to be a State kept secret, causing many people to be financially ruined.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    I see on the news tonight that Howard, Abbot, Turnbull, Rudd and Gillard are going to publicly get the Covid vaccine, Keating notably absent

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    Geeze we can be dense, NSW govt trusting international flight crews to self isolate, dumb and dumber.

    "Presently airline crew are able to self-isolate upon their arrival in NSW in either a home or accommodation."

    NSW coronavirus outbreak at Sydney's Northern Beaches grows to 28 - ABC News

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    Sydney's turn. Stay safe folks

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