Corona virus

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  1. #2301
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    In the Sydney Morning Herald today:

    Australians are being told to expect border bans to continue despite a mammoth vaccination scheme because scientists do not know how effective the new vaccines will be in slowing the spread of the virus.

    Scientists told the Herald the international border would have to remain largely closed because of the risk of travellers spreading COVID-19 even after being vaccinated.

    Health Department Secretary Brendan Murphy warned against forecasts beyond three months at present but said ‘‘the answer is no’’ when asked on the ABC if there could be a return to widespread overseas travel later this year.

    ‘‘I think we’ll go most of this year with still substantial border restrictions,’’ he said. ‘‘Even if we have a lot of the population vaccinated, we don’t know whether that will prevent transmission of the virus, and it’s likely that quarantine will continue for some time.’’
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  2. #2302
    2K Club Member toooldforthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    I think the latest research indicates it will stop transmission of the virus; I'll try and find a link.
    vaccines that stop someone being infected (and transmitting) are known as sterilizing vaccines.
    none of the current covid19 vaccines are sterilizing.

    yes, a vaccinated person can still be infected and transmit but it seems the opinions I have read are that the possibility of transmission from a vaccinated person is reduced (by how much no data as yet), but maybe by a lot - this is because the vaccines do reduce sickness symptoms and it is these symptoms (eg coughing, spraying droplets) that contribute to transmission.
    And of course the vaccines by reducing sickness reduce hospital load due to covid19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Their methods of ensuring ongoing and deepening subservience no longer amaze

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    ‘Dangerous signal’: Europe gives itself power to block vaccine shipments to Australia


    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...30-p56y08.html
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    ‘Dangerous signal’: Europe gives itself power to block vaccine shipments to Australia


    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...30-p56y08.html
    Up you Jack I'm in the lifeboat.

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    A bit more detail here. I see the Germans are saying not to use the Astra vaccine on over 65's, I wonder if there is some political motive there.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ralia/13105718

  8. #2308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Up you Jack I'm in the lifeboat.
    The AstraZeneca vaccine will be produced at their lab in Sydney, the govt has bought the rights to make it here after the initial delivery, that's if the EU doesn't stop any vaccines being exported to other countries outside the EU.
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  9. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    A bit more detail here. I see the Germans are saying not to use the Astra vaccine on over 65's, I wonder if there is some political motive there.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ralia/13105718
    I read it was because the field tests did not include a lot of people over 65, so the results are not as accurate as for those under 65.
    The UK has been using it in all age groups with no problems.
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  10. #2310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    A bit more detail here. I see the Germans are saying not to use the Astra vaccine on over 65's, I wonder if there is some political motive there.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ralia/13105718
    I wonder if there is anything but political in everything to do with covid.
    I don't intend to have the vaccine this year. Never objected to any vaccine, but this one is different. Will be sitting on the fence on this one.
    Will they manage to find a way to make it compulsory? Wait and see i suppose.

    I wonder if they will manage to make a vaccine against conservative thoughts? Something like "political saltpeter"
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    I doubt any vaccine will ever be made compulsory, in the case of Covid I suspect the non vaccinated will find it difficult to travel or participate in some areas of work. That will be sufficient most likely to get the coverage we need. Initially there will be some line up early and others like Marc who will see how things pan out first, there doesn't seem to be many who are against a vaccine.

  12. #2312
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I doubt any vaccine will ever be made compulsory, in the case of Covid I suspect the non vaccinated will find it difficult to travel or participate in some areas of work. That will be sufficient most likely to get the coverage we need. Initially there will be some line up early and others like Marc who will see how things pan out first, there doesn't seem to be many who are against a vaccine.
    So does this mean Australia will be one of the last countries to be part of "the system" and anyone who refuses the "treatment" will mysteriously disappear ?

    the_matrix_human_batteries.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I wonder if there is anything but political in everything to do with covid.
    Any crisis ends up being politicized. Churchill WW2, Roosevelt WW2, Thatcher Falkland's, Howard children overboard, Palaszczuk Covid, Morrison Covid. I'm sure I missed some but the dumbist of all who was not a (or say's he's not) a politician Trump couldn't see the opportunity and blew it.

  14. #2314
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    The new vaccine is "safe" ...
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/nh7NbpVy19U/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The new vaccine is "safe" ...
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/nh7NbpVy19U/
    The term "quack" comes to mind when I tried unsuccessfully to watch it, what sealed it was the war crimes call, he might have to get an official declaration of war somewhere for that to happen.
    inter

  16. #2316
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    Melbourne, what is going on, yet another stage 4 lockdown from a quarantine bungle, and probably hundreds of thousands will need yet another test.
    Now the whole Victoria has to suffer because of the incompetence of the gov't.

    The suspected cause is from the use of a Nebuliser.
    Back in May 2020 the Australian Commission on Safety and Quality health care recommended Nebulisers are not used on potential Covid people, ie: people in quarantine, because these devices can easily spread the virus if the user has it.

    The use of Puffers or spacers was told to be used and Nebulisers to be used only in Hospitals under strict controlled conditions, so why was this being used in a quarantine hotel in 2021 ?

    I think it's time to find a new Dan and govt who can actually do the job instead of bumbling there way through it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    The suspected cause is from the use of a Nebuliser.
    Back in May 2020 the Australian Commission on Safety and Quality health care recommended Nebulisers are not used on potential Covid people, ie: people in quarantine, because these devices can easily spread the virus if the user has it.
    I wonder if the people in quarantine and the persons guarding the hotel knew this?


    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    I think it's time to find a new Dan and govt who can actually do the job instead of bumbling there way through it.
    He can hardly be responsible for the shortcomings of those who he has no day to day control over so he can't micro manage.

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    I think I heard they "have no idea how a nebulizer got into the hotel"

  19. #2319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I wonder if the people in quarantine and the persons guarding the hotel knew this?




    He can hardly be responsible for the shortcomings of those who he has no day to day control over so he can't micro manage.
    The buck stops with him and his bunch of clowns, too busy wanting to big note themselves and get the tennis back there.

    Just like crown casino, heads are rolling right at the top, same needs to happen with these guys.
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  20. #2320
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    Why not immunise returned travellers and hotel staff first, what's the hurry to do everyone else!

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    Apparently tennis players are ESSENTIAL WORKERS and thus exempt from the normal quarantine requirements for us plebs. Even Morrison went out of his way to praise the Vic guvmint's response today. We pay these turkeys a king's ransom to manage public affairs for our common benefit, turkeys stuffed with neoliberal ideology from political left to political right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Why not immunise returned travellers and hotel staff first, what's the hurry to do everyone else!
    Perhaps the hurry to do everyone else is that immunisation does not stop people being carriers.

    "...there is currently no conclusive evidence to claim the COVID-19 vaccine stops people spreading the virus that causes the disease..."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN29N1UH
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  23. #2323
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Just like crown casino, heads are rolling right at the top, same needs to happen with these guys.
    No one needs Crown more than the NSW government - ironic because no one needs it less than the NSW public, doubly ironic that the NSW public PAY the guvmint to look after public interests, not those of criminals! Those rolled heads will be replaced with newly minted equivalent ones.
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  24. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Perhaps the hurry to do everyone else is that immunisation does not stop people being carriers.
    Always felt that but only for surface contact, not so sure about airborne!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Always felt that but only for surface contact, not so sure about airborne!
    Current Covid-19 vaccines do not appear to suppress virus replication in the upper respiratory tract, which is where aerosol transmission comes from when people sneeze or exhale vigorously, like singing, cheering or exercising.

    COVID-19 Vaccines May Not Prevent Nasal SARS-CoV-2 Infection and Asymptomatic Transmission

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33320052/
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  26. #2326
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    I still think give to those in the quarantine hotel system and see how it goes with current safeguards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    The buck stops with him and his bunch of clowns, too busy wanting to big note themselves and get the tennis back there.

    Just like crown casino, heads are rolling right at the top, same needs to happen with these guys.
    Like comparing apples and bananas.

  28. #2328
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    Really we should use fact checkers to make sure.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  29. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Melbourne, what is going on, yet another stage 4 lockdown from a quarantine bungle, and probably hundreds of thousands will need yet another test.
    Now the whole Victoria has to suffer because of the incompetence of the gov't.

    The suspected cause is from the use of a Nebuliser.
    Back in May 2020 the Australian Commission on Safety and Quality health care recommended Nebulisers are not used on potential Covid people, ie: people in quarantine, because these devices can easily spread the virus if the user has it.

    The use of Puffers or spacers was told to be used and Nebulisers to be used only in Hospitals under strict controlled conditions, so why was this being used in a quarantine hotel in 2021 ?

    I think it's time to find a new Dan and govt who can actually do the job instead of bumbling there way through it.
    I don’t agree that this is the government’s fault. The people in quarantine with the nebuliser were asked - but didn’t declare it.

    And I’m a Victorian!


    So, (no disrespect meant but) I think my opinion counts a bit more - since I am the one undergoing another (necessary) lockdown!

  30. #2330
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    Quote Originally Posted by joynz View Post
    I don’t agree that this is the government’s fault. The people in quarantine with the nebuliser were asked - but didn’t declare it.
    Really!
    A returned traveller blamed for spreading coronavirus through the Holiday Inn quarantine hotel by using a nebuliser says he was twice given permission from Victorian health authorities to use the medical device while in quarantine.
    ‘I feel like a criminal’: Traveller says he told authorities about nebuliser : CoronavirusDownunder (reddit.com)

  31. #2331
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    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  32. #2332
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    Quote Originally Posted by joynz View Post
    I don’t agree that this is the government’s fault. The people in quarantine with the nebuliser were asked - but didn’t declare it.

    And I’m a Victorian!


    So, (no disrespect meant but) I think my opinion counts a bit more - since I am the one undergoing another (necessary) lockdown!

    Let's see what comes out of this one, obviously someone is lying, lets see if they find out who, lot's of he said she said.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-fe...12-p571ze.html
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  33. #2333
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    Seems to me hotels with shared ventilation are being used for quarantine.

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    I don't think Dan Andrews was directly supervising hotel staff, so it's a bit of a stretch to try to hang anything on him over this.

    And there's an awfully large percentage of the Australian population in ALL states who will and do breach lockdown restrictions whenever they think they can get away with it. That's Australians everywhere, not just people in quarantine and their keepers.

    The repeated rushes to beat border deadlines when lockdowns are announced are the height of stupidity and contrary to achieving the desired mitigation of spread of Covid. It's time the broader population got it through their thick noggins that vaccine or not this pandemic isn't going away anytime soon, and sectors like travel will never be normal again. There's no point waiting for our political leaders to get on top of this problem, many only see it as an economic problem, not a health one. We have to act sensibly ourselves.
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  35. #2335
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Victorian hotel quarantine chief Emma Cassar stands by statement her team was not told about nebuliser

    "I can categorically say that there is no evidence from our audit that he has raised this with our health team or our operational team," she said.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-...assar/13152276

    Well fancy that, no evidence of who employed private security guards last time either.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Seems to me hotels with shared ventilation are being used for quarantine.
    The Holiday Inn at Tullamarine airport was originally a Travelodge, built using their 3-sided, tri-arc design. There are several examples around the world, including one in Geelong. Built in the '70s, they are very unlikely to meet today's ventilation standards.

  37. #2337
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    Everyone world wide seems to be pinning their hopes on the vaccine to restore everything to pre Covid days, hope they are right but I have reservations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    Built in the '70s, they are very unlikely to meet today's ventilation standards.
    Hello - ever heard of the Opal tower or hundreds of other sub-standard buildings built in the last decade's orgy of self-regulated development? They are just as unlikely to meet today's ventilation standards.
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  39. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    Victorian hotel quarantine chief Emma Cassar stands by statement her team was not told about nebuliser



    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-...assar/13152276

    Well fancy that, no evidence of who employed private security guards last time either.
    We know who employed them, the key is actually who put the idea forward and how did we go down that path. Security guards were also employed by other states, everybody wants a simple answer, in this case a simple answer doesn't cut it.

    At at this point everyone is just guessing, armchair experts aren't helping nor are the finger pointers. We have an unwelcome 5 day shutdown, let's hope it does the job. Possibly it is state wide because of the selfish twats that leave the city for their holiday homes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Hello - ever heard of the Opal tower or hundreds of other sub-standard buildings built in the last decade's orgy of self-regulated development? They are just as unlikely to meet today's ventilation standards.
    Hello - did Opal not comply with ventilation standards? Didn't read about that aspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    We know who employed them, the key is actually who put the idea forward and how did we go down that path. Security guards were also employed by other states, everybody wants a simple answer, in this case a simple answer doesn't cut it.

    At at this point everyone is just guessing, armchair experts aren't helping nor are the finger pointers. We have an unwelcome 5 day shutdown, let's hope it does the job. Possibly it is state wide because of the selfish twats that leave the city for their holiday homes.
    It is a fact that we will most likely never know not even a portion of the whole truth, and that the Victoria hotel quarantine is an easy target. I think it's ok. For once a marxist, chinese butt kissing moron can be the target just like conservatives are a target every day for their principles and convictions. Sit back and enjoy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    We have an unwelcome 5 day shutdown, let's hope it does the job.
    14 days John, 5 days were revoked before they even started, see above.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It is a fact that we will most likely never know not even a portion of the whole truth, and that the Victoria hotel quarantine is an easy target. I think it's ok. For once a marxist, chinese butt kissing moron can be the target just like conservatives are a target every day for their principles and convictions. Sit back and enjoy.
    I can't be bothered with the politics, all sides seem to be playing the ball on Covid. Emma Cassar (quarantine Victoria) has already said they don't believe the man with the nebuliser is lying, but can't find any record of approval to use the machine, they have also stated rules around what you can use should be clearer. There also seems to be insufficient communication between QV and the health department and a lack of health professionals advising and checking on returnees. Victoria may just be unlucky, regardless of that our contact tracing initially was insufficient and there would have been a large number of new systems and people hauled in from other departments and the external labour market. Inexperience does not improve outcomes.

    Nobody should be shocked that this has happened, especially with these new virulent strains, rather than chasing scape goats for each failure the government focus has to be accepting its failures and continuous improvement. To do that you have to concentrate on making processes better and avoid witch hunts, the later only reduce the flow of important information of why things failed in the first place.

    it is a natural human reaction to want to pin blame and punish, that has to take a back seat, we have to learn from these experiences to do better. I believe all governments in Australia are trying their best to do precisely that and have confidence we are getting better at managing this virus.

    i do not agree with Andrews though on reducing quarantine in Victoria, NSW has been left with the heavy lifting, Victoria needs to step up to the plate and increase its intake. Our arrivals aren't tourists, they are people in the main who are returning home with their families after work visas have expired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Our arrivals aren't tourists, they are people in the main who are returning home with their families after work visas have expired.
    What's staggering is the number of Australians going overseas despite the current situation, which roughly matches the number returning, despite nearly 40,000 Australians registered with DFAT as wanting to return home and around 3,500 allowed to return per week. These people will only add to the future quarantine load.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    14 days John, 5 days were revoked before they even started, see above.
    I don't think the lockdown has been revoked, we are back to Covid normal Thursday, I think the regulations you have refered to are the return to work ones on the staged return to offices etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I don't think the lockdown has been revoked, we are back to Covid normal Thursday, I think the regulations you have refered to are the return to work ones on the staged return to offices etc.
    You are probably right John, hopefully.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    I think the TGA must have a gun at its head to approve the Astra vaccine as every week I see Scomo or Hunt telling us that it will be approved in a week so much so they have jumped the gun and are making it in huge quantities.
    Certainly makes for a good photo shoot with lab coat on and all the rest.

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    I don’t believe him. I believe the trained staff.

    Then again, I used to believe you could always trust police!

  49. #2349
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    Quote Originally Posted by joynz View Post
    I don’t believe him. I believe the trained staff.
    Victoria's record keeping isn't really that clean. As it is perhaps someone forgot to write down a record of what was said, a common bureaucratic event!

  50. #2350
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I think the TGA must have a gun at its head to approve the Astra vaccine as every week I see Scomo or Hunt telling us that it will be approved in a week so much so they have jumped the gun and are making it in huge quantities.
    Never had any high regard for the TGA, I just think much of what they do is derivative and delay so it looks like they are doing something.

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