Corona virus

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  1. #2401
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Just to show how political everything has become and how scientist interest are far removed from scientific interest, take the following.
    The origin of the virus, was reduced to two, natural from the wild, or escaped from a lab.
    Trump declared that it escaped from a lab in china, so the scientific community who does not like Trump, ridiculed this and banged on the wild theory and the wet market, just to discredit Trump.
    The fact is that we know now, the virus escaped accidentally from a lab that engaged in the dangerous practice of "gain of function", designed to enhances the capacity of human pathogens to produce a pandemic, for the purpose of studying potential future pandemics. Essentially doing in the lab what may take a virus 100 years of evolution. By the way, this practice, was exported by the Obama administration to Wuhan, when it was banned in the US.
    Consider that the extinct spanish flu virus was resurrected from corpses not long ago with the purpose of "studying it to find a cure for covid" ... so we have spanish flu virus now in some lab corner awaiting to get to work reducing the human population, perhaps with some added gain of function courtesy of the scientific community.
    The target is achieving a world population of half a billion.
    Maybe we should look into shares in a crematorium company ... or in Microsoft vaccines?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  2. #2402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The fact is that we know now, the virus escaped accidentally from a lab that engaged in the dangerous practice of "gain of function"
    Where did that gem come from as there are many reports that it did not happen.

  3. #2403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I wonder if that is correct in that if vaccinated people got a bit crook they would think it is not Covid and not bother getting tested.

    I remember reading in a book by Dr Gilbert Welch "Should I be Tested for Cancer" who put forward the theory if you want to find disease just go looking
    Yes, I agree we don't yet have enough evidence as to why people who have been vaccinated have experienced a greater reduction in Covid 19 illness than those not vaccinated. It is pretty hard to mask death though. In first world countries the vast majority of Covid 19 deaths occur in hospitals unless the hospital system is overloaded. I would have thought that anyone entering hospital with Covid 19 symptoms would be tested.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I would have thought that Vitamin D deficiency would be the least of our problems in Australia.
    I am ethnically north west European and I wear shorts and a short sleeve shirt for most of the year and am out in the sunshine for probably four hours a day and I have a massive vitamin D deficiency if I don't take daily supplements.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  5. #2405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The origin of the virus, was reduced to two, natural from the wild, or escaped from a lab.
    Don't forget about the possibility it was sent here by intergalactic warlords from outer space at the request of Bill Gates. Or was it George Soros? Doesn't really matter I suppose. The US is now vaccinating close to 3mil people a day so we are all going to be zombies any day now. I read all about it on the internet, so it must be true.

  6. #2406
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    This has the potential to get political as Australia has purchased heaps of this vaccine and they certainly wouldn't want a negative report.

    The German government's vaccines agency, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, said it had suddenly noticed a "striking accumulation" of cases of a rare kind of blood clot on the brain, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), in people who had just had the vaccine.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-...lots/100014182

  7. #2407
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Probably more to do with Australia's role in making it. I am not looking forward to this one as from what I read it isn't that great with other strains that Moderna and Pfizer deal with better.

    Inside CSL, where Australia's Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines are being made - ABC News

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Probably more to do with Australia's role in making it. I am not looking forward to this one as from what I read it isn't that great with other strains that Moderna and Pfizer deal with better.
    I thought you would get the Pfizer vac as you are in Sydney it is just those who live in the sticks that get the second rate one.

  9. #2409
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    No, Hornsby hospital has been given the flawed one. I never understood us going with Astrazeneca when early trials showed ordinary results.

  10. #2410
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    The logistics of administering the Pfizer are daunting. I am listening in my wife doing the course required by doctors to give the vaccine, and it definitely is not fit for any other than a well organised hospital. Not to mention 45 minutes with each patient to sign the consent. Then you get the one that can not read, or needs an interpreter ...

    I think that even in a hospital the -70 storage requirements will be breached more than once without your knowledge. Astrazeneca is clearly the winner for mass vaccination in precarious circumstances. I would like to know how many doctors' surgery Australia wide have a real vaccine fridge that keeps them between 2 and 4C (requirement for the Astrazeneca) with a 8hs backup energy source ... Most will have just a domestic fridge. My wife worked in surgeries in Sydney where the owner had his lunch next to the vaccines and stool samples.
    For the Pfizer, the general practice is not suitable without serious upgrades. At $30 (less than an ordinary consultation), it is not a viable proposition.

    But do not despair, this too will pass.
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  11. #2411
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Don't forget about the possibility it was sent here by intergalactic warlords from outer space at the request of Bill Gates. Or was it George Soros? Doesn't really matter I suppose.
    If only close mindedness would translate into close mouth, you would be a marvelous person.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    If only close mindedness would translate into close mouth, you would be a marvelous person.
    When the vaccine zombies go looking for brains to eat don't bother hiding, you are safe from attack.

  13. #2413
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    When the vaccine zombies go looking for brains to eat don't bother hiding, you are safe from attack.
    Wouldn’t it be classed as new unused stock, on the shelf but never functional?

  14. #2414
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    "Joint team" report conflict of interest.
    https://youtu.be/-gZGQM0dtsQ
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    "Joint team" report conflict of interest.
    https://youtu.be/-gZGQM0dtsQ
    The gospel according to Sir Rupert.

  16. #2416
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Identity politics at it's best. If it is Murdock it is wrong. If it is the ABC, it must be right.

    Most people have some vestige of discernment left, and some incentive to exercise it.
    The video makes a lot of sense and presents a string of questions and facts. If you object to any of them, I would like to hear which one in your opinion is wrong and why.
    Murdock press pffff, is not very specific.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    The gospel according to Sir Rupert.
    The committee producing the report was heavily weighted with Chinese input and even in the mainstream media its come out that a lot of stuff was hidden or out of bounds.

    Lets face it, none of those "Chinese citizens" on the committee would dare speak out or reveal any negativity, negligence by China or the facility or the gov as their families would quickly disappear during the so called investigation and they would soon follow never to be seen again.
    Happened during the outbreak with those speaking out and occurs everyday for all sorts of BS issues people dare to speak out. Just look at their history over the recent 50 years and the prison camps with millions affected (sorry re-education centers with added value to the broader society once or if ever released!!!)

    There is only 2 likely sources of infection and if they are serious about the first then the "wet Markets" would be a "thing of the past" never to be seen again and if and how it escaped from the virus facility then the only answer is how (accident or on purpose)...either way we will never know. Probably the biggest cover up in history considering its killed 3 million people.

    I'm still amazed that we as a society choose to still deal with and support China and sweep issues under the carpet....but then again its all to do with money and power.

  18. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Identity politics at it's best. If it is Murdock it is wrong. If it is the ABC, it must be right.

    Most people have some vestige of discernment left, and some incentive to exercise it.
    The video makes a lot of sense and presents a string of questions and facts. If you object to any of them, I would like to hear which one in your opinion is wrong and why.
    Murdock press pffff, is not very specific.
    The guy on the Sky report admits that we don't really know the truth about the origin of the virus. In #2401 you claim you know. So yes to be fair to Sky I have to admit they are more accurate than you.

  19. #2419
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Obviously you did not listen or don't want to hear what the guy has to say.
    He is proposing the study of all possible hypothesis, and not just two based on zoonotic jump, discarding any hypothesis of human intervention. He says "we don't know which of the hypothesis is more likely" because as part of the WHO his job is not to point fingers. Yet he is denouncing the suppression of those hypothesis that will point the finger directly at the chinese. His interest appears to be purely scientific, where all possibilities need to be taken into account and not politically bleached.

    He is basically denouncing the original report as biased, by parties with a conflict of interest. It is not hard to understand unless one has a personal interest in protecting the "image" of the poor fragile communist party that butchers people every day to sell replacement parts among other things. Clearly the bad conservative right wing corporations want to smear the poor and dear CCP.

    Any serious study will find that the virus escaped the lab, where they experimented with gain of function.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  20. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    He is proposing the study of all possible hypothesis,
    He can propose whatever he likes, the reality is that the Chinese govt is not cooperating with any inquiry and probably never will. So complaining that the investigators have a conflict of interest is mostly a waste of time. But Sky likes to get people angry at the Chinese, it keeps them watching which is all Sky cares about. Mugs are easily manipulated.

    If you have any ideas on how to force a nuclear armed country with an army of 2 million to do what they don't want to then by all means share it.

  21. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    The committee producing the report was heavily weighted with Chinese input and even in the mainstream media its come out that a lot of stuff was hidden or out of bounds.

    Lets face it, none of those "Chinese citizens" on the committee would dare speak out or reveal any negativity, negligence by China or the facility or the gov as their families would quickly disappear during the so called investigation and they would soon follow never to be seen again.
    Happened during the outbreak with those speaking out and occurs everyday for all sorts of BS issues people dare to speak out. Just look at their history over the recent 50 years and the prison camps with millions affected (sorry re-education centers with added value to the broader society once or if ever released!!!)

    There is only 2 likely sources of infection and if they are serious about the first then the "wet Markets" would be a "thing of the past" never to be seen again and if and how it escaped from the virus facility then the only answer is how (accident or on purpose)...either way we will never know. Probably the biggest cover up in history considering its killed 3 million people.
    I don't disagree with anything you have said. At the beginning I gave the Chinese some credibility but since then and their attitude to this and many other things I now don't believe anything that comes from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    I'm still amazed that we as a society choose to still deal with and support China and sweep issues under the carpet....but then again its all to do with money and power.
    Do we have a choice as they are setting the terms now and we have been given a sample of their power. You only have to look around your house and the computers you are using to post here and they all come from China.
    We made them what they are now.

  22. #2422
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    Anyhow has anyone got the vaccine yet?

    I am having some doubts with the drop in platelets and I not against vaccines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Anyhow has anyone got the vaccine yet?

    I am having some doubts with the drop in platelets and I not against vaccines.
    Local GP was expecting to get a small amount of the vaccine last week; never happened and no word on when it will.

  24. #2424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    You only have to look around your house and the computers you are using to post here and they all come from China.
    We made them what they are now.
    Yes and no. Yes we contributed to their economic prosperity but certainly didnt make them what they are - a brutal dictatorship

    Short answer is there needs to be a massive shift to balance things out and no time like the present to start massive change.

    We (many countries) need to be more agile to move in a different direction.


    • move production and IP not to be with just one dictatorship country,
    • we need to limit ownership from that same country (eg: 100% of all gas/electricity bills/profits in Vic continue to go to that same dictatorship, from memory they control 70% of the energy market on the eastern seaboard)
    • move production to several countries including our own group of countries....even if it is more expensive...at least its providing jobs and putting money back into our communities.


    Too many things are based on the cheapest value when in fact its way more....including how a country/gov behaves, their values and how we as a society are supporting that through "greed" with offshore manufacturing, land and business ownership in our country where they buy for massive over inflated prices and then where profits are directly supporting these dictatorships that's killed, corrupted, ethnic cleansed and bullied millions....just in their own country let alone the BS practices on interfering with other countries political, economic systems and internal affairs whilst dictating to the world you cant have an opinion on China's issues because its an internal problem.

    If we teamed up with Canada, UK, NZ we would be in the top 4 economies and we all have similar laws and values.

    ..there's my rant for the month ...and yes I'm not expecting a Christmas card from them now

  25. #2425
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    He can propose whatever ... bla bla ... Sky likes to get people angry at the Chinese, it keeps them watching which is all Sky cares about.

    If you have any ideas on how to force a nuclear armed country with an army of 2 million to do what they don't want to then by all means share it.
    As usual, when it comes to politics, pure doctrinal nonsense.
    By the way there was one option that was missed. Re elect D Trump. But I bet you cheered for the demented buffoon. Now we have 4 years of verbal diarrhea and dangerous antics with the hyena laughing in the background and the chinese stealing, killing and buying up whatever moves. Including in OZ, and especially in the popular republic of victoria. Yes, keep voting chairman andrews down there. You are such geniuses!
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    It's good that you keep reminding people that Trump got beaten by a senile old man who never left his basement, and that the brutal repressive behaviour of the Chinese govt continued all through his presidency. You should also add that the US balance of trade with China got worse during his time in office. Like you he had no idea on how to get to the bottom of the source of the virus issue and really didn't do anything about it. So my question remains; how do we force a nuclear nation with huge military power and wealth to allow a full investigation?

    Campbell has a vid on the excess deaths in the US, as expected there has been more than a half million additional deaths compared to the last few years. He lists the states which had the worst death rates per head of population, Mississippi being highest.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtJg-l5OUI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    So my question remains; how do we force a nuclear nation with huge military power and wealth to allow a full investigation?
    Simple ....(I wish ) the majority of countries recognise the need for change and rather then empowering China with the manufacturing hub of the planet and allowing them to buy assets (key assets in the supply chain, utilities, dairy, mining/minerals etc...all the big stuff) making them billions:


    • move manufacturing operations to other countries and they must not be owned/operated by China in those countries
    • Ban ownership of key assets (utilities, key supply chain assets, mining of key minerals, farms and regulate residential/commercial ownership developments
    • Manufacture more at home (what ever country your in...benefits the local economy with more end to end benefits
    • Employ FIFO local countries for cheap labour but win/win for both
    • ....many more


    but the point is, they need to be hit in their hip pocket to reduce part of their influence making other countries prosper in the process, demonstrate there is an alternative to China and its much more than a pissy little investigation where we know its a big cover up...its about the future we leave for the next several generations.

    We all need to play the China way....meaning playing the long game with a 50 year vision and using economic coercion (black mail is the street term) as a tool just like they do. But one thing is certain, the dictatorship will never change or can be trusted.

    Don't see Japan or other countries we've all helped over time to get back on their feet behaving in such an obscene way with their local populations and wanting control of the rest of the planet.

    Like I said, simple isn't it...or it could be if enough countries got together to play fairly with each other and take the puff out of China's boat sails.

    Trouble is the world economy is all about consumption, money, power and politics....and no one want to give up any of these...even if its a short/medium term sacrifice.

  28. #2428
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT2 View Post
    It's good that you keep reminding people that Trump got beaten by a senile old man who never left his basement,
    I think you got that wrong as he was talking about
    But I bet you cheered for the demented buffoon
    that described Trump who because he couldn't get his way took his marble bag and left because the people wouldn't play with him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    but the point is, they need to be hit in their hip pocket to reduce part of their influence making other countries prosper in the process, demonstrate there is an alternative to China and its much more than a pissy little investigation where we know its a big cover up...its about the future we leave for the next several generations.
    Simplistic I know but China could go along way backwards as they don't have to be elected, look what North Korea does to its people.

  30. #2430
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    Not to mention Putin...then again Abe Saffron in NSW!

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    Happy 1st Anniversary, Ruby Princess

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Anyhow has anyone got the vaccine yet?

    I am having some doubts with the drop in platelets and I not against vaccines.
    Got my first dose today. So far so good. I haven't died yet.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    Got my first dose today. So far so good. I haven't died yet.
    You better let us know if you do.

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    There's scant evidence that the rollout of vaccine is reducing case rates. There's an increasing view that virus mutations are outpacing public health controls. It might be a while before the "World's End" party we've been living for the past 4 decades can resume.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  35. #2435
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    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n506
    Death rates among people over 80 appear to be falling faster than other age groups, so are we starting to see the effect of the vaccination programme? Jacqui Wise looks at what we know

    Are deaths falling in groups of people who have been vaccinated?

    The number of deaths in the UK within 28 days of a positive covid-19 test has been steadily falling since mid-January. An analysis carried out by the Guardian, using data from the official government dashboard, shows that from 24 January to 12 February deaths from coronavirus in England among those over 80 fell by 62%.1 This compares with a drop of 47% among people aged between 20 and 64 and 51% among those aged 65 to 79.
    Further evidence comes from Scotland which has seen deaths involving covid-19 falling in all locations, with the fastest decrease in care homes. In the three weeks to 14 February deaths in care homes fell by 62% to a level last seen around the end of October. Older residents in care homes were treated as the top priority when the vaccination programme began. The report from the National Records of Scotland shows that the number of deaths in the 85 and over age group has fallen by 45%—more steeply than younger age groups. There are now fewer deaths in this age group than in the 75-84 age group for the first time since mid-November.2

    Is this because of the vaccination programme?

    By 10 January, more than a third (34.6%) of people aged 80 and over in England had received at least one dose of a covid-19 vaccine, according to Public Health England (PHE).3 In comparison, fewer than 3% of under-80s in England had received a first dose by this stage. It takes two to three weeks for immunity to build after vaccination and then a further two to three weeks between a coronavirus infection and death from the virus so data from mid-February would provide the first indication that the vaccination programme was starting to have an effect.
    David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, told The BMJ that the signs are encouraging, “We can see that deaths in the over 85s are going down faster than in younger groups over the past couple of weeks. We can’t definitively say that this is because of the vaccination programme but it is compatible with the start of an effect of vaccines.” He explained that because deaths are going down so fast in every age group spotting that one group is going down faster than another group is more challenging.
    However, Sheila Bird, formerly programme leader at the MRC Biostatistics Unit in Cambridge, told The BMJ that she is not yet persuaded that deaths are falling more rapidly in the over 80s. “I am not persuaded by graphs. I would like to see a detailed analysis that considers people’s vaccine status.” She pointed out that there are often delays in registering deaths and that there is a lot of potential confounding in who would have received the second dose of vaccine and therefore had higher levels of protection.
    Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon said the latest Scottish data contained the “first hard evidence of the positive impact of vaccination.” But so far Chris Whitty, the UK’s chief medical adviser, has been more cautious. He told a Downing Street briefing, “The earliest indications would imply there is some effect. But I think it’s too early to put a number on that. We would expect to see some evidence that is strong enough to put into the public domain in the next few weeks.”

    Is vaccination having an effect on hospitalisations?

    Hospital admissions are falling in all age groups, presumably the effect of the current lockdown. The latest PHE data show hospital admissions (for the week to 14 February compared with the week to 7 February) falling faster for the 75-84 year old age group than other adult age groups.4 Duncan Robertson, an analyst from Loughborough University’s School of Business and Economics, told The BMJ, “This may be the first tentative sign of a vaccination effect, although we will need more data to be confident that this is an actual trend. As the vaccination programme works its way down the age groups, we would hope and expect to see hospitalisation rates for older age groups fall in the order they were prioritised.”
    However, the data show that the highest hospital admission rate for confirmed covid-19 was in the over 85 age group. Robertson says this could be explained by delays in vaccinating care home residents and recent outbreaks in care homes, which may have led to a higher case rate in the over-80s compared with 70-79 year olds.
    Spiegelhalter, who has carried out his own analysis of the data, said that in the 10 days up to 14 February hospital admissions were falling at 27% per week in the over 85s compared with 20% a week in the under 65s.

    Are infection rates falling among the elderly?

    Case numbers might not be a reliable indicator of whether the vaccine is working. The large number of routine coronavirus tests in settings such as care homes will also pick up mild and asymptomatic infections. The latest phase of the Real-time Assessment of Community Transmission study found that covid-19 infections fell by two thirds from mid-January to mid-February.5 However, the fall in prevalence was similar among those aged 65 years and over compared with other age groups. The study authors from Imperial College London said this suggests that if vaccines are effective at reducing transmission as well as disease, this effect is not yet a major driver of prevalence trends. Therefore, the observed falls described here are most likely because of reduced social interactions during lockdown.

    What about antibody levels?

    The over 80s age group is now the most likely to test positive for coronavirus antibodies. The Office for National Statistics survey shows that in England an estimated one in five people tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the 28 days up to 1 February but the figure for the over 80 age group was over 40%. Two weeks ago that figure was 26%.6 Spiegelhalter said this finding is what would be expected. However, he pointed out that the figures don’t distinguish between those who have developed antibodies from past infection and those who have developed them from vaccination.

    What can we say for sure?

    Experts agree that although signs are encouraging better data are needed. Robertson said, “The vaccination rollout data is limited, despite the Royal Statistical Society and the Office for Statistics Regulation calling for more detailed statistics such as take-up by priority group and which vaccine was administered split by ethnicity, location, and age.” Bird added that we need to see data on death rates linked by vaccine type and whether a patient had a second dose. The picture should become clearer in the next few weeks and it is expected the government will publish more data when they set out their roadmap for a route out of lockdown.

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  36. #2436
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    You have probably heard the news by now. The link between the Astrazeneca vaccine and clots is clear. The percentage numbers ... well ... they can be easily misrepresented, either down or up. Who knows. Gender, (Covid vaccine is not politically correct), the pill, smoking and alcohol all play a role and increase the likelihood of clots due to the vaccine.

    I will stay put for now, no vaccine for me at the present time. In my family, there are 2 working in hospitals and one in private practice. They went for the Pfizer administered in hospitals. Not free from side effects, but as far as we know today, slightly better. Tomorrow who knows. We are dealing with a vaccine rushed without proper testing, to counteract a man made pandemic and ... to make a quick buck.
    May be in 2 or 3 more years we will have a proper vaccine. (?)
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I will stay put for now, no vaccine for me at the present time.
    Me to but for different reasons. I was at my Dr's yesterday and he suggested that I should wait to see if there is any information as to how it effects those who have a below normal platlet count.

    I think my attitude would be different if we had corona virus at epidemic proportions here like in some other countries.

    With the flood of information we have now both real and lies I doubt the likes of the polio or other popular vaccines would have been developed.

  38. #2438
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    To put things in perspective and to be fair, the fact is that no one knows for certain.
    And politicians as usual don't help. When you hear the different countries 'leaders' stating they will get this or that vaccine because it is "better", the facts are far removed from the statistics.
    Below is a chart that is popular, and used to compare vaccines efficiency.
    A few problems with the comparison below. They are all based on too small of a sample, taken at different times of the pandemic, in different countries and by the manufacturers themselves. It is like asking each car manufacturer, which car is better.
    Efficiency is based on how many in a split sample of placebo vs vaccinated people get sick. The lower the number of sick people in the vaccinated group, the more effective it is claimed to be.
    However if the sample of people is taken during a low in the infection rate, that sample can not be compared to another taken at different time and even in a different country. Apples and kumquats.
    Furthermore, consider the following. What is the purpose of a vaccine?
    There are different grades of success for a vaccination campaign. Completely eliminating the virus and 100% efficiency, all the way down to zero, where it makes no difference.
    Eliminate the best case scenario as unrealistic and the worse as unlikely, if a vaccine achieves two or 3 levels up from zero, keeping people from dying first and out of hospital second, if the vaccine achieves turning the illness into a mild case of flu, it has achieved it's purpose of 100% success rate in my view.

    At the present time, due to the speed at which this different vaccines have been produced, the negative effects are still a question mark. Because in Australia the infection rates are so low and rare, we can have the luxury of waiting and choosing. If we lived in Brazil or India, I doubt our attitude would be the same. If we lived there we would take what we can take and hope for the best.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    There are different grades of success for a vaccination campaign. Completely eliminating the virus and 100% efficiency, all the way down to zero, where it makes no difference.
    Eliminate the best case scenario as unrealistic and the worse as unlikely, if a vaccine achieves two or 3 levels up from zero, keeping people from dying first and out of hospital second, if the vaccine achieves turning the illness into a mild case of flu, it has achieved it's purpose of 100% success rate in my view.
    I believe the flu vaccine which we are all familiar with doesn't have anywhere near 100% effective.

    I was watching a TV show the other night and with the flu vaccine is it a guessing game as to which recipe thy use for the coming year to cope with the strain that is expected.

    Guessing game not much different with the various Covid vaccine.

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    Was a statistic given for the flu last year and should we expect much of it this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Was a statistic given for the flu last year and should we expect much of it this year.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...giene-australi

    https://ama.com.au/articles/flu-deat...uring-pandemic

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    Don't know why it would be surprising to Hancock, I didn't bother with a flu jab last year as i expected a very low flu season and I would expect similar this year. It's not just hygiene but the lack of international travel.

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    I wonder what's happening with measles, mumps and chickenpox infection rates. They should be down to next to nothing as well as flu.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    I believe the flu vaccine which we are all familiar with doesn't have anywhere near 100% effective.
    You misinterpreted my observations. Define 100% to begin with.
    When it comes to deal with a deadly virus, no dead is 100% efficiency. If you can increase to no hospitalization, that is a bonus. The flu vaccine achieves the same, less or no deaths and reduce loss of productivity. No one expect to "eradicate" the virus. It is more to do with 'taming' it, to a manageable pet.
    Hopefully they can adjust the Astrazenca formula to avoid clots.

    All other infectious diseases have reduced incidence last year for the same reasons the ordinary flu did. Reopening international travel will change all that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    You have probably heard the news by now. The link between the Astrazeneca vaccine and clots is clear. The percentage numbers ... well ... they can be easily misrepresented, either down or up. Who knows. Gender, (Covid vaccine is not politically correct), the pill, smoking and alcohol all play a role and increase the likelihood of clots due to the vaccine.

    I will stay put for now, no vaccine for me at the present time. In my family, there are 2 working in hospitals and one in private practice. They went for the Pfizer administered in hospitals. Not free from side effects, but as far as we know today, slightly better. Tomorrow who knows. We are dealing with a vaccine rushed without proper testing, to counteract a man made pandemic and ... to make a quick buck.
    May be in 2 or 3 more years we will have a proper vaccine. (?)
    Good luck Mark.
    From https://theconversation.com/data-sug...rollout-157137
    about 17,000 Australians suffer a thromboembolic event each year.”
    Since the Australian population is almost 26 million, this means that in a “normal” year, approaching 7 per million of the population each year. (i.e. 0.065%) will be afflicted by this condition in any event – inoculations or not!

    Being over 80 years of age, I have had the first "Jab" of the AZ vaccine about one week ago, with no side affects - apart from a sore shoulder, if I push on it.
    As my son said, "Don't push on it." - which is good advice.

  47. #2447
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Don't know why it would be surprising to Hancock, I didn't bother with a flu jab last year as i expected a very low flu season and I would expect similar this year. It's not just hygiene but the lack of international travel.

    I haven't had a flu shot for probably 10 years,
    If I see sick people in the shop I stay away from them,

    Don't use public transport or work in a confined office which are where are both big spreading areas.
    I would like to see us adopt masks for sick people in public, like they do overseas.

    So many times when I used to work in an office someone would come to work who was sick, coughing etc within days there was bound to be multiple people call in sick who worked close by.

    For starters if your sick stay at home, if you must go out a mask should be considered normal to minimise you giving it to others.

    Hopefully after corona things will be different, people will consider wearing a mask if they are sick, retail outlets should continue the hand sanitiser as standard offering at the door.

    Working from home has been proved to be a viable option, so if you must work do it from home while you are sick instead if going to an office and spreading it round.
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
    Good luck Mark.
    From https://theconversation.com/data-sug...rollout-157137
    about 17,000 Australians suffer a thromboembolic event each year.”
    Since the Australian population is almost 26 million, this means that in a “normal” year, approaching 7 per million of the population each year. (i.e. 0.065%) will be afflicted by this condition in any event – inoculations or not!
    The statistics of embolia are irrelevant. Death from ordinary cloths is very low, mortality from VIPIT is 40%.
    The vaccine produces a clot that blocks arterial supply mainly to the intestine, similar to heparin induced clots, and they are very difficult to diagnose and treat. Different countries report different numbers, from 1/25,000 in Norway to 1/500,000 in Britain.
    Unfortunately no one knows, Astrazeneca is not telling, and no one is talking about changing the formula to avoid this.
    Most likely linked to hormone levels and why it is avoided for younger people.
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    I got my first Wu-Shu Flu jab on Monday, sore shoulder as expected and woozy for the first day but as for the risks?
    Talked about the odds with my GP and went ahead. We all die sooner or later so why worry too much about cashing in a few years early?
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

    Legal disclaimer denying responsibility to be inserted here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    I haven't had a flu shot for probably 10 years,
    If I see sick people in the shop I stay away from them,

    Don't use public transport or work in a confined office which are where are both big spreading areas.
    I would like to see us adopt masks for sick people in public, like they do overseas.
    I started the flu shot a few years back primarily because of the persuasive media encouragement, but mainly because it helps not to be a carrier. I think I had the flu back in 1984 after hard training for the city to surf, the only time in my life I have felt affected by the flu.

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