Corona virus

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  1. #2451
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    The two post above remind me of one story my wife told me last week ...

    Patient arrives at front counter and asks for a flu shot. Girl at the counter makes sure she understand correctly:
    -You want a flu shot right? the seasonal flu shot correct?"
    - Yea yea, that one.
    When his turn comes, he gets the shot and goes.
    5 minutes later he is back raving and ranting ... -You gave me the flu shot, I wanted the Covid shot, now I have to wait 2 weeks, and #@**$+ etc.
    How lovely ...

    PS ... be specific. It is the Chinese Communist Party made virus. not the flu ...
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  2. #2452
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I started the flu shot a few years back primarily because of the persuasive media encouragement, but mainly because it helps not to be a carrier. I think I had the flu back in 1984 after hard training for the city to surf, the only time in my life I have felt affected by the flu.
    Yes, the last time I got the flu jab was 25 years ago. May have been pure coincidence, but was very sick for 3+ weeks afterwards. Was at a time in life where I was training hard 5 to 6 days a week and in those "healthy/fitness" years would get a bad cold as a minimum almost every year. Looking back probably had a lot to do with "over-training" running my protection systems low because ever since I stopped the hard training, have never been better....from a cold/flue perspective....my waist line says otherwise!!

    Anyway never got the flue jab since and only get a bad cold once every few years with the "flu" once every 5 to 10 years even after been a regular train user the last 4 years. I'II get the CV jab but only after a period of time to see how others have gone given the shortened trials.

  3. #2453
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    Saw a meme the other day which went something like...

    "I was brought up with doctors and scientists telling me not to mess with experimental drugs, and now the same professions are encouraging me to mess with experimental drugs"

  4. #2454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    ...We all die sooner or later so why worry too much about cashing in a few years early?
    Killed by Death

    https://www.facebook.com/KingsAndQue...7793784966085/

  5. #2455
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    I think that the oxford vaccine is near dead. Government is scrambling to start vaccination hubs with Pfizer
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

  6. #2456
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    I'll be avoiding it, never did like it. Moderna is of interest though.

  7. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I'll be avoiding it, never did like it. Moderna is of interest though.
    Will you have a choice from what I have read it is Astra for over 50’s or none.

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    yeah, I think it is wrong not to have a choice. The argument of risk is just political noise to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I think that the oxford vaccine is near dead.
    I bet they are desperately trying to get some negative about the Pfizer vaccine as the government is heavily financially dependent on the Astra vaccine.

  10. #2460
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    Possibly we may need to get both types over the next few years.
    Just letting you all know that I'm not dead yet BTW.
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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  11. #2461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    Just letting you all know that I'm not dead yet BTW.
    Before you do you must give 7 days notice.

  12. #2462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    Possibly we may need to get both types over the next few years.
    Just letting you all know that I'm not dead yet BTW.
    Considering that the immunity is short lived, some 6 month or so, this is a massive and repeat business. Competitors are queuing up.
    On a side note ... if the risk from Astra, is say 1/100,000 ... yet you must repeat at 6 month intervals ... how much is the risk in 2 years time with 4 repeats?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  13. #2463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Considering that the immunity is short lived...
    Vaccines are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  14. #2464
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    Reminds me of a friend from teenage years, who came to see me when he found out I was leaving for Australia.
    "Fight for the whales" was his suggestion.
    I didn't say much since I was more interested in fighting for survival and dodge the bullets, but ... nevertheless, it stuck in my mind.
    Do the whales need saving?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  15. #2465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    ...
    On a side note ... if the risk from Astra, is say 1/100,000 ... yet you must repeat at 6 month intervals ... how much is the risk in 2 years time with 4 repeats?
    yeah, well, we all know that if you don't win Lotto one week your odds are better the next week.

  16. #2466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I think that the oxford vaccine is near dead. Government is scrambling to start vaccination hubs with Pfizer
    Not a surprise.

    Doctors are now reporting patients are missing their appointments over vaccine safety concerns, saying thousands of doses of the AstraZeneca shot are sitting idle in fridges across the country.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...avel/100077086

  17. #2467
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    So the "conspiracy theory" was true? Not surprised. The key words are "gain of function" research. In other words, how to make virus more effective to kill.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jPYJqFczck
    https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-...-box-at-wuhan/

    Acknowledgements
    The first person to take a serious look at the origins of the SARS2 virus was Yuri Deigin, a biotech entrepreneur in Russia and Canada. In a long and brilliant essay, he dissected the molecular biology of the SARS2 virus and raised, without endorsing, the possibility that it had been manipulated. The essay, published on April 22, 2020, provided a roadmap for anyone seeking to understand the virus’s origins. Deigin packed so much information and analysis into his essay that some have doubted it could be the work of a single individual and suggested some intelligence agency must have authored it. But the essay is written with greater lightness and humor than I suspect are ever found in CIA or KGB reports, and I see no reason to doubt that Deigin is its very capable sole author.

    In Deigin’s wake have followed several other skeptics of the virologists’ orthodoxy. Nikolai Petrovsky calculated how tightly the SARS2 virus binds to the ACE2 receptors of various species and found to his surprise that it seemed optimized for the human receptor, leading him to infer the virus might have been generated in a laboratory. Alina Chan published a paper showing that SARS2 from its first appearance was very well adapted to human cells.

    One of the very few establishment scientists to have questioned the virologists’ absolute rejection of lab escape is Richard Ebright, who has long warned against the dangers of gain-of-function research. Another is David A. Relman of Stanford University. “Even though strong opinions abound, none of these scenarios can be confidently ruled in or ruled out with currently available facts,” he wrote. Kudos too to Robert Redfield, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who told CNN on March 26, 2021 that the “most likely” cause of the epidemic was “from a laboratory,” because he doubted that a bat virus could become an extreme human pathogen overnight, without taking time to evolve, as seemed to be the case with SARS2.

    Steven Quay, a physician-researcher, has applied statistical and bioinformatic tools to ingenious explorations of the virus’s origin, showing for instance how the hospitals receiving the early patients are clustered along the Wuhan №2 subway line which connects the Institute of Virology at one end with the international airport at the other, the perfect conveyor belt for distributing the virus from lab to globe.

    In June 2020 Milton Leitenberg published an early survey of the evidence favoring lab escape from gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
    Many others have contributed significant pieces of the puzzle. “Truth is the daughter,” said Francis Bacon, “not of authority but time.” The efforts of people such as those named above are what makes it so.














    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

  18. #2468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Do the whales need saving?
    They did, but after the ban of commercial whaling the numbers have started to recover, biggest threat nowadays is then getting caught in fishing nets.

    https://iwc.int/status
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  19. #2469
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    They did, but after the ban of commercial whaling the numbers have started to recover, biggest threat nowadays is then getting caught in fishing nets.

    https://iwc.int/status
    Yes, Metrix ... however my little story was to illustrate the ephemeral condition of the quests that real or imaginary, are born from emotions rather than logic and facts.

    This man made epidemic, was fraught with such wide ranging emotionally charged goose charge leads, all designed to confuse, obfuscate, diverge and camouflage the truth as long as possible. And this was all aided with pleasure by the usual left leaning suspects who don't waste time in blindly accept for fact what fits their preconceived view of the world ... that as you know is flat and is held up by a chinese turtle.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    Just letting you all know that I'm not dead yet BTW.
    Same. 35yrs old and still kicking. I'm now well over the 20-day window post 1st AZ job. And will be risking it all over again come beginning of July

  21. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    Same. 35yrs old and still kicking. I'm now well over the 20-day window post 1st AZ job. And will be risking it all over again come beginning of July
    There is much less risk of a blood clot with the second dose.
    UK figures
    1 in 80,000 after first dose.
    1 in 600,000 after second dose.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-vaccine.html
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  22. #2472
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    Same. 35yrs old and still kicking. I'm now well over the 20-day window post 1st AZ job. And will be risking it all over again come beginning of July
    So the morons in VIC are dishing out AZ to under 50? What next? The chinese one?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So the morons in VIC are dishing out AZ to under 50? What next? The chinese one?
    If you are under 50 and want it, then you can still have it, yes.

    It's called advice for a reason

  24. #2474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Yes, Metrix ... however my little story was to illustrate the ephemeral condition of the quests that real or imaginary, are born from emotions rather than logic and facts.

    This man made epidemic, was fraught with such wide ranging emotionally charged goose charge leads, all designed to confuse, obfuscate, diverge and camouflage the truth as long as possible. And this was all aided with pleasure by the usual left leaning suspects who don't waste time in blindly accept for fact what fits their preconceived view of the world ... that as you know is flat and is held up by a chinese turtle.
    You must be brilliant at scrabble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    You must be brilliant at scrabble.
    Reminds me of the scene in Friends when Joey wrote the referral letter for Chandler and Monica's adoption application, and used a thesaurus on every single word

  26. #2476
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    Everybody knows that the world is help up by 4 quite large elephants, although those do stand on a turtle
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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  27. #2477
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    Bit hard not to agree with these observations.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...d-19/100142792

    I don't know whether this was happening before the Covid crisis but when I go to supermarket nowdays I see several employees with trolleys with up to 8 boxes and a scanner loading up groceries for pickup, seems like a lot more are shopping from home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    Everybody knows that the world is help up by 4 quite large elephants, although those do stand on a turtle
    Not quite - it's turtles all the way down...

  29. #2479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Bit hard not to agree with these observations.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...d-19/100142792

    I don't know whether this was happening before the Covid crisis but when I go to supermarket nowadays I see several employees with trolleys with up to 8 boxes and a scanner loading up groceries for pickup, seems like a lot more are shopping from home.
    Since we don't know how the 60,000 lucky responders were selected, and considering that number can hardly represent 25.4 millions, I wouldn't give much credit to this.
    Furthermore the title is pure click bite since even the answers given by this small sample don't tell they are all sheep and yes man "wanting to be told what to do"

    As for wanting to be told what to do in relation to covid vaccination ... we have one of the lowest and slowest uptake of vaccine in the western world. Despite the unethical push by the government to sell the AZ instead of tossing it and replace it, most people are dragging their feet waiting for a better choice. Hardly dictator material.

    Shopping on line is on the up on all fronts. Not much to do with covid. Perhaps a little bit. Not enough to write a BS article about.
    ABC ... what do you expect?
    As for a picture that represents Australians, that is a great one ... especially Guzman y Gomez in the background. Vegemite all the way.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  30. #2480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Since we don't know how the 60,000 lucky responders were selected, and considering that number can hardly represent 25.4 millions,.
    Pretty hard to select 25.4 million for their response but the gist of the article was that the population of Australia complied with the directions from various governments I never saw any large scale protests on the streets.

  31. #2481
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    If you are under 50 and want it, then you can still have it, yes.

    It's called advice for a reason
    Wrong on several accounts.
    The AZ is not to be given to under 50 because of the higher risk of clots. That is medical advice.
    However the continuous push by governments to continue vaccinating with AZ to the over 50 is highly unethical. When the polio vaccine developed a problem it was stopped and replaced on ethical grounds.
    Those politicians and doctors pontificating on the balance of risk between getting sick or getting a clot, are to start with, themselves been vaccinated with Pfizer. So they are telling you do what I tell you and not what I did.
    And then it is highly unethical because it is asking a third party to take a risk they don't need to take. No one should be faced with such choice. That is why we pay taxes and why we allow them to steal their salary.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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    Touché
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Wrong on several accounts.
    The AZ is not to be given to under 50 because of the higher risk of clots. That is medical advice.
    https://www.tga.gov.au/alert/astrazeneca-chadox1-s-covid-19-vaccine-3

    ATAGI reinforces its previous advice that:


    • Comirnaty (Pfizer) is preferred over AstraZeneca vaccine in people under the age of 50 years. The AstraZeneca vaccine can still be given to adults under 50 years if Comirnaty is not available, if the benefit of vaccination is likely to outweigh risk, and where informed consent has been obtained.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Those politicians and doctors pontificating on the balance of risk between getting sick or getting a clot, are to start with, themselves been vaccinated with Pfizer. So they are telling you do what I tell you and not what I did.
    Victorian Health Officer Brett Sutton

    Dr Norman Swan

    Just to name two people pushing for vaccinations who have received AZ - i'll stop wasting my time searching for others


  33. #2483
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    If you are under 50 and want it, then you can still have it, yes.

    It's called advice for a reason
    I have just watched Dr. Campbell video on Covid vaccine risk. He is questioning the blanket advice given to the population in reference to what vaccine carries the least risk based on age only. He seems to be of the opinion that what vaccine should be used should also be based on sex. The mRNA vaccines also have risks with them that mostly affect males under 40 years of age. He thinks that it may be best to use AZ for males under 40 and mRNA (pfizer) for females under 40.
    It seems we still have a lot to learn.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pr9yG7CMbY
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  34. #2484
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    People should be able to make that decision for themselves, if : after getting the best information available; they decide that the risks are minimal and the advantages outweigh the risks then they should be able to get the "More risky" vaccine if the wish to
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    People should be able to make that decision for themselves, if : after getting the best information available; they decide that the risks are minimal and the advantages outweigh the risks then they should be able to get the "More risky" vaccine if the wish to
    If you have a choice; why would anyone choose the more risky one?
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  36. #2486
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    Quote Originally Posted by UseByDate View Post
    If you have a choice; why would anyone choose the more risky one?
    As such why should we be putting up with the crappy one. I guess the government just wants to satisfy it's secret dealings and exhaust it all to the aged.

  37. #2487
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    If the "risky" version was more effective
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    People should be able to make that decision for themselves,
    And the politicians should lead by example, I notice Morrison got the Pfizer vaccine so if it good for him is should be good for the rest of the community. Our state premier and chief health officer are standing back for the vaccine even though that are both eligible for the AZ vaccine.

    Standby for the scare campaign to come to persuade people to get vaccinated.

  39. #2489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post

    Standby for the scare campaign to come to persuade people to get vaccinated.
    They might even let infection leak out a bit to this end!

  40. #2490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    If the "risky" version was more effective
    Effectiveness is just another risk factor to be considered with the risk of adverse reactions.
    “What a fool believes, he sees. No wise man has the power to reason away”- The Doobie Brothers

  41. #2491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    If the "risky" version was more effective
    That's a hypothetical that does not exists. No one has a choice. Only health workers and politicians get the Pfizer for now, the plebs get the AZ. Fact. As for those politicians who allegedly received the AZ, since there is no way to know for sure, I give that version of event zero credit. I still have a copy of the time our premier had the jab with the cap on. It's all a big show and we are the one footing the bill.

    My argument stands. It is unethical to pedal a faulty vaccine, regardless of how low the risk may seem to those who had the other vaccine. If you like to be in hospital for a month and on blood thinners for 6 month be my guest, I don't, and no one should ask me to take such risk simply because they want to save face having bought the wrong product, and botched it's distribution, not to mention botched the quarantine, botched the passenger check, dragged their feet to get people to wear masks and many other idiotic actions we commented for the last year and a half.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
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  42. #2492
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    I don't think that the vaccine can be termed "faulty" Marc, it provides a well know measure of protection.
    It has associated risks but there are risks with all vaccines and inoculations as there is with any medical procedure or any medications.
    100 people might die from a bad reaction to the AZ dose but 3000 people might die from Covid if our hospitals get over run, and they might if they aren't funded to cope and the virus runs rampant due to stupidity/ noncompliance/ etc on the part of the general populace.
    I guess that the people in charge crunched some numbers and decided the risk to the individual was outweighed by the advantages for the general population
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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  43. #2493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    I guess that the people in charge crunched some numbers and decided the risk to the individual was outweighed by the advantages for the general population
    Think that had more to do with their agreements than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    That's a hypothetical that does not exists. No one has a choice. Only health workers and politicians get the Pfizer for now, the plebs get the AZ. Fact. As for those politicians who allegedly received the AZ, since there is no way to know for sure, I give that version of event zero credit. I still have a copy of the time our premier had the jab with the cap on. It's all a big show and we are the one footing the bill.
    You falsely suggested that noone who is pushing to us to receive AZ had in fact taken AZ themselves. I give you two instances of individuals who have received AZ and you discredit them based on no evidence, suggesting it was "allegedly received"... what evidence do you want? Blood tests after the event to prove to you? Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    My argument stands. It is unethical to pedal a faulty vaccine, regardless of how low the risk may seem to those who had the other vaccine. If you like to be in hospital for a month and on blood thinners for 6 month be my guest, I don't, and no one should ask me to take such risk simply because they want to save face having bought the wrong product, and botched it's distribution, not to mention botched the quarantine, botched the passenger check, dragged their feet to get people to wear masks and many other idiotic actions we commented for the last year and a half.
    That's like refusing anesthetic for an operation where the risk of complications are more likely to occur through the management of anesthetic than the procedure itself. I look forward to hearing you declining anesthetic because it holds a level of risk, which you may or may not agree with.

  45. #2495
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    . I look forward to hearing you declining anesthetic because it holds a level of risk, which you may or may not agree with.
    Analogy lacks validity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Analogy lacks validity.
    Your claim that his analogy lacks validity lacks validity (just my opinion)
    I don't feel obliged to explain why I think that either.

  47. #2497
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeasureTwice View Post
    That's like refusing anesthetic for an operation where the risk of complications are more likely to occur through the management of anesthetic than the procedure itself. I look forward to hearing you declining anesthetic because it holds a level of risk, which you may or may not agree with.
    Nonsense once more. When you obviously are seeing things from a very narrow personal perspective, my opinion is based on the ethics required by professionals in public health.
    From the Hippocratic oath, to a string of human rights, legal rights, freedom of choice, not to mention the very low level of infection in Australia, pedalling the AZ vaccine at this stage here, is not only not necessary, but unethical. Check the latest interview to Dr Michelle Ananda-Rajah who expressed this precise thoughts publicly only a few days ago. May have been OK for the UK at some stage due to desperate measures. Australia is not UK or Italy or India.

    The medical profession has no right to coerce, manipulate or distort reality in order to achieve a result that appears convenient to them. When the medical profession mixes with power and politics, things can get real dark real soon. When politicians "know better what is good for you", better start walking in the opposite direction.

    As for your simile, any patient has the right to decline any procedure including anesthesia, something I have done myself in the field more than once, in order to stay awake and ready. And in times of peace, you clearly know nothing of procedural risks.
    You are obviously well intentioned and enjoy debate. Rename yourself "CheckTwice" and you will be right.
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

  48. #2498
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    ABC health expert performs 'complete backflip' on COVID-19 lab leak theory






    The ABC's "self-proclaimed" national health expert and TV presenter Dr Norman Swan has performed a complete backflip on his view on the coronavirus lab leak theory, according to Sky News host Chris Kenny.

    Dr Swan had previously stated on national television in May last year that the coronavirus was a "natural mutation" and did not originate from a lab.

    In an interview with the ABC on Tuesday Dr Swan said there were "increasing signs" the Wuhan Institute of Virology "may well have been the source".
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  49. #2499
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Not only it "escaped" the chinese lab, it is man made to adapt perfectly to humans and not animals. Well not counting the animals that made it and perfected its "function".
    Fake media and their Trump derangement syndrome.
    How long until we have proof of the massive fraud in the US elections?
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

  50. #2500
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    More about the lab "escape"
    https://youtu.be/8h2h3HNTnIc
    Fear is the foundation of most government.
    John Adams

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