Electric cars

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  1. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung View Post
    Think ppl are referring when travelling from A to B but can't make it on 1 charge?
    Friends recently were planning on driving to Esperance and worked out they needed 2 overnight stays for charging.
    This is a good video, showing the difference driving from Sydney to Melbourne ICE Vs EV.
    Not really that big a difference, not many people would do it in one hit, if you have kids you have to stop off on the way to have sanity breaks etc, so probably no difference between vehicles.

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  2. #1852
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    At the moment the assertion that long distances aren't a problem for EV's is not exactly true if you want to head to areas off the beaten track. Towing a rig still the issue and to resolve that issue means big bucks for the occasional extra need for power.

  3. #1853
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    Petrol vs electric vs subsidies by Richard Hammond and Jeremy May

    https://youtu.be/-LYhjPqcxUw
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

  4. #1854
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Your situation is different, you have a small battery to charge and have access to a charging outlet, in the cities a lot of people live in multi story apartments with multi story open carparks that have no access to charging infrastructure in the carpark.
    You are correct our situation is different. We are off grid and cannot charge overnight, but only when the sun shines and then only slowly, which requires a bit of planning to take into account weather forecasts and future trips. But it's entirely doable.

    Charging infrastructure for overnight charging consists of a power point, and there's usually one not too far away even in multi-level car parks, and if there isn't it is easy to have one provisioned. But my comment was about the obsession with domestic fast chargers - I can't see the point.

    We do regularly travel to Adelaide (~150km) for an overnight stay and charge off a 10A power point at our friend's place. Personally I would not attempt to travel distances greater than the range of the car because the Nissan Leaf does not have active battery cooling and rapid charges accelerate the ageing of the battery (even for cars with active battery cooling). Rapid charging is like using crap oil in an ICE IMO.
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  5. #1855
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    The truth is probably that we don't know what the future holds, but it's coming to us very quickly.
    Perhaps a better question is what shape our long distance vehicles will look like as small EVs would do Cecile and I for most of the time.
    What is the smallest constant speed engine + battery combination suitable for a trip around Australia compared to a vehicle that would be used once a month for shorter holiday trips?
    In the next 20 years I reckon I want a nuclear powered wheelchair capable of doing 100kph.
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  6. #1856
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post

    Charging infrastructure for overnight charging consists of a power point, and there's usually one not too far away even in multi-level car parks, and if there isn't it is easy to have one provisioned. But my comment was about the obsession with domestic fast chargers - I can't see the point.
    Still doesn't work like you wish outside your ideal bubble, There isn't "spare" power points located in multi story carparks for a reason that someone has to pay for the electricity being used from them, this is why you don't see them, can you imagine the uproar if someone was plugging in every day charging their 100kW battery (impossible to do anyway due to the battery size and current the PPT can supply) then driving it a few hundred k's per day for their courier / taxi job then charging for free courtesy of the building, that wouldn't take long to stop this happening.

    If PPTs are available in these public spaces, they are usually under lock and key only accessible by facilities personnel for trades etc use.

    Another problem is you can't have extension leads / charging leads running over non designated charging spaces in public spaces due to OH&S issues


    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Rapid charging is like using crap oil in an ICE IMO.
    If the battery system is designed properly it should minimise any problems, here is a user who had done over 100,000 Miles and battery still fine, using slow and fast chargers.
    There are also many other cases that say the same that are using fast / slow chargers. manufacturers that don't implement active thermal management for the battery are not worth considering buying their product.

    There are also cases who have used just Supercharghing going from Low State of Charge to 100% every time, and have had issues with the batteries, it's like anything a bit of both is probably ok.

    I noticed Samsung latest software update on my phone has an option to stop charging at 80% instead of 100%, I assume if you followed this same type of habit should be ok.
    Problem is everyone want's the car to charge at the same speed as filling a tank with petrol so manufacturers have been increasing the amount of energy that can be pushed into the pack at a ridiculous rate.

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  7. #1857
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    Metrix that "problem" could be solved simply enough by adding in a card or coin operated meter at each power plug, admittedly retro-fitting a PP at each parking bay will cost a lot of money but I've heard that such infrastructure is common in very cold places for people to plug in the sump heaters for their ICE cars
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  8. #1858
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    This is a very interesting video

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  9. #1859
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    On a slightly different tack.
    Having to spend an hour at a service station while your cars battery tops up could be considered a safety argument in its favour. Such stops are or should be part of every drivers travel plan to alleviate fatigue. Was mentioned earlier. Maybe roadside cafes will then start serving real food instead of takeaway crapola loaded with fat and sugar.
    That is see the need to stop for an hour or two every 400 to 500 kilometres as a plus and not a negative. If in a hurry charter a plane
    I really miss the Shell roadhouse in Wodonga opposite the old saleyards that served the very best liver and onions with bacon [ toast on the side] that ever existed and that took about that needed rest hour to eat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    On a slightly different tack.
    Having to spend an hour at a service station while your cars battery tops up could be considered a safety argument in its favour. Such stops are or should be part of every drivers travel plan to alleviate fatigue. Was mentioned earlier. Maybe roadside cafes will then start serving real food instead of takeaway crapola loaded with fat and sugar.
    That is see the need to stop for an hour or two every 400 to 500 kilometres as a plus and not a negative. If in a hurry charter a plane
    I really miss the Shell roadhouse in Wodonga opposite the old saleyards that served the very best liver and onions with bacon [ toast on the side] that ever existed and that took about that needed rest hour to eat.
    When I was younger I could drive 900klm in a day but nowdays 500klm is the limit and to get over the crapola food we take our own and stop at roadside rest area's, Not being a cheapskate but I dislike the the food dished up, I used to think it was good once but not any more.

  11. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    When I was younger I could drive 900klm in a day but nowdays 500klm is the limit and to get over the crapola food we take our own and stop at roadside rest area's, Not being a cheapskate but I dislike the the food dished up, I used to think it was good once but not any more.
    I have never been a fan of long drives, nothing bores me more than sitting on a freeway doing 110, if you were able to do 150 then different story.
    Had to drive from Sydney to Ballina a while ago was around 700km, it wasn't too bad but only because there was someone else in the vehicle to have a laugh with the whole way.

    I have a mate who commonly drives to gold coast and Melbourne on his own without a second thought, I would rather catch a plane and rent a car.

    Everything is good when young and don't know any better, then you realise it's not, especially when it comes to food.

    Something I hate are days when I need to buy lunch there is hardly anything healthy to eat,
    Everything is either hamburgers, hot chips, fatty this fatty that fried this, fried that, very hard to find nice tasty food that's not going to give you a heart attack.

    Went to a takeaway place last week, got a spicy chicken salad in a box, it was really nice, I have been there a few time before, but nearly died when I asked for a juice, it was just a standard glass bottle around 400ml.

    Charged $6.00 for the juice, WTF was too late as I opened it before swiping card, definitely won't be going there again.

    Even the pie place near a Hardware and General, it's one of those flashy big caravan type places, pies are $9.00 - $11.00 for a bloody pie, nothing special like a gold bar with each pie, just the pie forget it.
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  12. #1862
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    Well mince is now costing almost $25- a kilo and porterhouse almost $60-
    I don't expect food to come down in price soon.
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  13. #1863
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    Not quite 25 yet but getting there, Organic is over that

    capture.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    This is a very interesting video
    Hmm.. There's just a really big thing missing from that otherwise lucid description (pun intended). Every cycle of a battery reduces it's charge capacity. For that very reason normally BEV car manufacturers give the range based on ~2/3 of battery capacity, not 100%. For example a battery with a rated 1000 cycle capacity is going to lose around 0.1% of range per cycle. That may not seem much, but if your BEV has 1000km range on the first charge, it will be 999 on the second, 995 on the 5th, 975 on the 25th, etc. (The battery is considered EOL At 50% of original battery capacity.)

    For that reason most manufacturers design the car to only use ~2/3 of the battery capacity initially, and as the capacity reduces the depth of charge and discharge is slowing increased so that the range stays the same. Lucid is going to end up with a lot of very unhappy customers if they use 100% capacity as an indication of the vehicle's range. Eventually the spare capacity is used up and the the range of the vehicle will reduce slightly for each charge cycle. For most BEVs that will occur a long way past the first 100,000km.

    If you remember the Californian bushfires a couple of years ago, Tesla release an over-the-air firmware update that increased range for people to evacuate. All Tesla did was allow the battery to be cycled more deeply. At the end of the day there are only so many coulombs that can be extracted from any battery, no matter which way it's cut. Sure Lucid can be cleverer in maxing out the contents, but they are still constrained by the same laws of physics as everyone else, despite the enthusiastic description in the video.

    There are new battery chemistries (actually old technologies with new refinements) that will make lithium and the need for rare metals obsolete before the 2020 decade ends, batteries with lower cost and much higher energy densities. The massive subsidies to fossil fuel industries are the main reason these battery technologies have taken so long to realise commercialisation, otherwise electric cars would have been around in the '80s IMO.
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    https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/d...ctric-vehicle/

    Are electric vehicles ready for the great Australian family holiday? The cars may be, but the country isn’t, as Glenn Butler discovers the hard way.

    Also, how much is your time worth?

    We pulled into Bowral at 7:45pm, 11 long hours after we left Melbourne. We had covered 768km at an average speed of 70km/h with an average consumption of 21.1kWh/100km. At best that’s a 350km range. At Chargefox’s 40c/kW our fuel cost just under $65. By my estimate, a petrol-powered car would have done it in two hours less at a cost of $120.

    I'm sure it will all get better, eventually

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  17. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    T

    That's an interesting point about Tesla plans to allow non Tesla cars to use it's charging network, this sort of makes sense on a few levels,
    Tesla's can use non Tesla chargers with an adapter, Tesla is in the business of supplying energy, so it makes sense to open the energy market up to non Tesla owners as well.

    This will be a game changer, as one of the big reasons for purchasing a Tesla was access to the massive network infrastructure.

    The biggest hurdle to buying an electric car is charging port access, Tesla have this one sorted, with chargers everywhere (not in Australia yet) multiple chargers at each site and a network of service techs to deal with any outages quickly, the others will need to step up their game very quickly if they want to even look in the door of charging networks.

    If our gov't was any use they would have pursued VW the same as they did in the US over Diesel Gate.

    Part of the penalties for this was VW had to install $2 Billion of chargers throughout the US, these will be part of the Electrify America network.
    What did Australia do about this, NOTHING, we could have got the same deal here.

    US had approximately 500,000 affected vehicles and got a $2 Billion network, Australia had 100,000 affected vehicles so we should have pursued a $400 million settlement the same as the US for an Electrify Australia Network, instead we did nothing, typical.
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  18. #1868
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    As far as I am aware, any car has been able to charge from Tesla chargers with an appropriate cable, so nothing new there.

    Below is an interesting video that shows the fallacy of direct comparisons of the energy efficiency of ICE versus BEV vehicles here. The tailpipe of an ICE is at the end of a very long, very inefficient and polluting oil extraction and refining process.

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  19. #1869
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    As far as I am aware, any car has been able to charge from Tesla chargers with an appropriate cable, so nothing new there.
    Certainly will be new and a big deal for non Tesla owners.

    Non Tesla cars have never been able to use the Tesla charging network, not only is it a different plug (which can be hacked to fix this).
    The charger "checks" the car upon plugging in, if it's authenticated, the charger will start up.

    This was done for a few reasons, you don't need to worry about signing up to multiple energy suppliers, and either enter your details, or swipe a card etc to get the charger to start.
    For Tesla you just plug in and if authenticated it automatically charges, then charges you for the energy used to your Tesla account, as Tesla is the one supplying the energy.

    It was also done, so if any cars were in an accident and technically written off, the car / batteries can be banned from using the network for safety reasons.
    The only way to get the car back on the network is via Tesla, from what I have seen it's almost impossible to have this done once it locked out of the system.

    This would be an interesting one, wonder if you could have a Tesla charging cable with CCS2 on the other end, then another one with CCS2 back to Tesla I wonder if the charger would be able to detect the banned Tesla !!!
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  20. #1870
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    Tesla destination chargers have AFAIK always been able to charge other BEV cars with a suitable cable. Tesla is rolling out a program for Tesla Superchargers to be available to other cars as well.

    https://www.tesla.com/support/non-tesla-supercharging


    https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/tesla-opens-superchargers-to-other-ev-brands
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    There was a view expressed in this thread a couple of years back that hydrogen power would soon overrun electric power for cars and other transport. I think I said at the time that view was more than optimistic. Well after a few covid years precluding travel, I'm back in Japan to see my outlaws. At Kyoto Honda's enormous dealership the multi-million dollar hydrogen refuelling station is now islanded in an expanded used vehicle lot. No hydrogen powered car can get near the bowser without moving several rows of used ICE cars first.

    Honda has meanwhile installed electric vehicle chargers in the customer parking bays. But don't tell energy minusta Angus Taylor who's antipathetic views aren't swayed by the physics of thermodynamic laws, let alone the real contemporary experiences of energy done properly. Don't mention the staggering drop in wholesale electricity prices in South Australia thanks to solar and wind generation. That will make him more determined than ever to gift $100s millions taxpayers' money to fossil energy companies for pumping CO2 into old wells to force more fossil fuels out of the ground (AKA carbon capture and storage), just like they have done for nearly a century without subsidies.

    Our month long Japan trip was more than paid for by savings in BEV fuel expenses from just the last 12 months. Mind you based on my observations today there still are bugger all electric cars on the road in Kyoto. YMMV.
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    We walked past Kyoto Honda again today and realised that their BEV charging stations have been installed in front of the secondhand cars that are in front of the hydrogen refuelling station. I guess that definitively shows Honda's position on hydrogen. Today on the road we saw a few current Nissan Leaf BEVs including one that was a taxi, a Tesla, a Nissan Aria BEV and a squillion Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Mitsubishi, etc, hybrids and PHEVs. There's bugger all BEVs in the scheme of things in Japan so far (at least in Kyoto and a brief stay in Tokyo).
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  23. #1873
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    An honest chat on electric cars by someone who owns or used to own one ... or rather, the fallacy of zero emissions.
    https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

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    Well, this is something I didn't expect...

    EV Owners Face Challenges When It’s Time For New Tires
    https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/ev...new-tires/amp/

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    ... And something less unexpected

    Not enough plugs: Australia is driving headlong into an EV fast charging crisis
    https://thedriven.io/2022/05/30/not-...ng-crisis/amp/

  26. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    An honest chat...
    Yawn. Same old straw-man arguments, Marc. And no, electric cars are not going to save life as we know it - doh!

    BTW why are you posting a link from someone you'd normally call a nutter because he believes CO2 is causing global warming? Is it because you now realise that it was way back in the 1820s that Joseph Fourier established that the greenhouse effect explained why Earth's temperature was higher than the sun's energy alone could account for?

    A few decades later Eunice Newton Foote, an American scientist, inventor, and women's rights campaigner, published a paper "Circumstances affecting the Heat of the Sun's Rays", identifying the effect of atmospheric CO2, which was presented at the eighth annual American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in 1856 in Albany New York.

    In 1859 John Tyndall confirmed that nitrogen and oxygen are transparent to radiated heat, however confirmed that water vapour and other gases including methane and carbon dioxide absorb radiated heat and re-radiate that heat within the atmosphere.

    By 1896 Svante Arrhenius had published the first climate model showing the temperature increase expected from doubling CO2 to be around 5–6 °C - that’s the long term rise, not the short term transient rise which is what the IPCC is talking about with the 2-3 °C from a doubling of CO2!

    Arrhenius used infrared measurements of the Earth’s radiation reflected in the moon to calculate how much heat is captured by CO2 and water vapour in Earth's atmosphere. The calculation for the effect of a doubling of atmospheric CO2 depended on a factor called the Stefan–Boltzmann constant. In the past 100 years or so the accuracy of the Stefan–Boltzmann constant has only been improved by just a decimal place or two.

    By the 1970s when I studied thermodynamics, all of the science about climate response to CO2 was old hat and no person with a real scientistic understanding questioned the certainty of the effect of atmospheric CO2. It's the same physics that make coal and nuclear power stations work FFS.

    In the 25 years since the Kyoto Protocol was signed in 1997 emissions of CO2 have gone up 50%, not down by the 15% which is what the protocol called for. The result is CO2 global emissions are currently 75% greater than would be the case if signatories the the Kyoto Protocol followed their commitments.

    This wouldn’t be such a big deal for humans if atmospheric temperature was the only important factor. The earth’s weather systems are driven primarily by the energy in the oceans, and as a result of global warming this energy is rising three times faster than the energy in the atmosphere. Expect more 'once in 100 / once in 1000 year' events every year from now on.

    Humans on Earth have now lived the CO2 experiment long enough to confirm unequivocally that Arrhenius was correct 125 years ago about the impact of a doubling of atmospheric CO2, which Earth will reach within the next 40 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    Well, this is something I didn't expect...

    EV Owners Face Challenges When It’s Time For New Tires
    https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/ev...new-tires/amp/
    There's two problems with specifying for tires for BEVs. First, high performance BEVs have acceleration that shreds tires (even a lowly Leaf has enough acceleration to shock petrol-heads). Second, BEVs don't have a powerful noise and vibration generator builtin onboard to obliterate road and tire noise, so quite rightly BEV owners want quieter tires than the ICE driver can appreciate the need for. It's called progress, BTW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    ... And something less unexpected Not enough plugs: Australia is driving headlong into an EV fast charging crisis
    https://thedriven.io/2022/05/30/not-...ng-crisis/amp/
    For years I have been trying to convince petrol station owners to equip themselves with fast chargers, because if they don't someone else will - and take their customers. There's no margin in fuel, the money to be made at a petrol station is in high margin impulse sales. And if a customer has to linger longer, there'll be more opportunity sales for the supplier of fast charge stations.
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  29. #1879
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    Was watching some documentaries on Hydrogen cars, I never knew how they work, but they are fascinating, Toyota has done an amazing job in refining the technology..
    I think Hydrogen should have been the next step rather than full electric, because there is no weight penalty by having a massive battery,

    You only need a smaller battery and fill up time is on par with petrol, I think it's the logical step for transport and busses etc as the problem with electric trucks the weight penalty of the huge batteries required to move a fully laden truck cuts down on payload, which sort of defies the purpose.

    Would have been better to introduce Hydrogen vehicles, and develop better battery technology for base loads / houses etc.
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    As usual John, making vast display that misses the point altogether.
    I see nothing changed here, only there is hardly anyone to talk to.
    Rather sad.

    Zero emissions is the topic, one that the current morons in charge will make us pay through the nose to achieve absolutely nothing.
    The electric car is allegedly the tool or one of the tools to achieve "zero emissions".
    What I believe is irrelevant, and by the way I say it once more: We can bend backwards and go live in caves and eat raw meat to avoid using fire and it will have zero effect on the weather, the climate or my aunties veggie patch.

    Zero emission (my foot) :
    The conventional vehicle comes to the showroom having generated 6 tons of CO2 in the process of fabrication, before it drives a single Km
    The electric vehicle comes to the showroom having generated 12 tons of CO2, so you can see that it starts with a massive handicap and needs to be driven 140,000 km to make up for this.

    And the above is for an electric vehicle that has a driving range of 200 km ... if we talk about a vehicle with the equivalent range of a conventional car that can do 600 km ... in order to compare apples with apples, we must talk about a vehicle that can do 600 km with one charge, and to make that kind of car, you will produce over 25 tons of CO2 and in the life of the vehicle it will never catch up with the petrol car and contribute more to the CO2 boogie man than my old 4wd ever produced and I am nearing 400,000 km and counting. To cover the same distance you will need 3 or 4 electric cars and they will be all in the scrap pile and I will most likely still be running on the same original engine.

    Zero emissions is a fallacy because of the way it is measured.
    But ... no surprises here. The whole concept of global warming renamed climate change because there is no warming, is a false hypothesis created to shift power and resources towards the new rich on the block.

    But you know all this, it just feel right to say it once more. Electric cars as much as they seem lovely and innovative even when they were invented before the petrol car ... make the CO2 emissions worse.
    Do not despair. and continue to use your electric car. CO2 is not the evil it is made to be, and the "climate" changes constantly due to well known factors that are far away from our grasp.

    I loved Andrew Bolt line when talking about "climate activist" that chanted "Action now" in relation to the floods in northern NSW. -This are the options: do we build a levy ... or do we stop the rain? "Stop the rain! Stop the rain!"

    Yes we can be a collective bunch of idiots when emotions are stimulated appropriately.
    Stop the rain!
    Errr ... didn't the hero of global warming Tim Flannery predicted that our dams will never fill again ... that the rain will be a thing of the past?
    Oh yes, sorry that was global warming and now it is climate change ... sorry ... my mistake.
    Come on John ... CO2 is good for you. and for me but it does not rhyme.

    Rather than quoting good old Arrhenius, I would quote Socrates:
    • “The only true wisdom is in knowing you [we] know nothing.” ...
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

  31. #1881
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    But ... no surprises here. The whole concept of global warming renamed climate change because there is no warming...
    Come on Marc, give it up. You live in Sydney and must know we have never had so much rain. Look how the Antarctic ice shelf is being undermined by warm currents and then our high east coast rainfalls, not just because of La Nina, but the warmer water at the top of Australia. The extreme high temperatures in the west of Australia and India. Can you really believe we have stable or cooling global temperatures. Enough said on this topic, as we are not resurrecting the Climate change thread.

  32. #1882
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    Stable climate or even stable temperatures is a preposterous concept.
    Climate just like weather is by definition variable and historically fluctuates between extremes that themselves shift constantly.
    To believe that governments can reset the thermostat of the world is as naive as believing that legislation change can cure cancer.

    And by the way ... can you advance a hypothesis that makes electric vehicles "zero emission" just for laughs?
    That is the topic after all.
    Zero ... such wonderfully ultimate and final concept. "zero" ... there is some satisfaction in such finality. Nothing to see here ... ZERO !!

    Read again ... an ordinary electric vehicle needs to be driven 140,000 km before it can catch up with a petrol car. An extraordinary electric vehicle the one that cost a bomb and drive for 4-500 K ... those are off the chart, and will be scrap 3 times over,before the petrol car is.
    Electric vehicles are oh so coool !
    And yes they are, some of them, not the Rivian unfortunately doomed by the looks of it ... or by it's looks perhaps?
    But don't give me the zero crappola, no such thing as zero.
    PS
    Global warming ... the name was a mistake because it introduced a measurablew concept. Rename climate change is like saying "Waves fluctuation"
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    And by the way ... can you advance a hypothesis that makes electric vehicles "zero emission" just for laughs?
    There is no doubt ev's are polluting to manufacture just like anything and the ted presentation highlights that, just like to see some detail how the stats are derived, not saying they are wrong. On the other hand I just don't see any ice engine having a future long after I am gone.

  34. #1884
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    Internal combustion has a solid future, current fuels not so much.
    Then again ... did you know that Venezuela oil reserves dwarf the arabs' one?
    May be we can invent an economical way to produce distillate from coal?
    There is a low tech and cheap (relatively) way to make diesel out of scrap plastic. In Europe they go with small depolymerisation plants in tow to schools to show the concept. Many councils have this plants. We don't, we are too clever to fall for that extreme right trick , we are green! Save the planet! Drive electric cars!
    I wonder what became of my high school mate who told me when we parted ways, ... if you go to Australia, fight for the wales!
    I pictured myself in a punch up with sharks, but somehow it didn't seem feasible.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...uid-technology
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

  35. #1885
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    If you read the article above you will see that oil reserves are not the total oil in existence but what can be extracted economically with current prices and current technology. So when prices go up, or new methods developed, the reserves estimate go up accordingly ... 60% in the last 20 years.
    The pontiffs of "peak oil" forgot to tell us this little gem when they started their campaign of misinformation decades ago. If you add to that the new liquid fuels that can be produced with new technology, you can see that the piston engine has still a way to go.
    So called "renewables" so far, have instead achieved large price increases, massive blackouts, and massive pollution to produce and to dispose of panels, batteries and windmill.
    The only way to sell inefficient and super expensive technology, was to demonise the competition with fallacious tabus, lies and false hypothesis. Without the help of artist and billionaires. pretending altruism and with undisclosed large portfolios in renewables industry, this would have been as hard as selling ice to eskimos.

    Keep on going boys, buy electric toys and make the new billionaires into trillionaires.
    And you will have a dozen free indulgence from the green popes to be cashed in to pay for your next power bill.
    And feel good about it.
    I pump diesel and gas into my car unashamedly.
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332

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    Just passed 80,000k in the inferior electric car and hit a major expense - had to fit a new cabin air filter for $26. Of course the other major expense was the decision to fit light truck tires about a year ago due to punctures from the rough roads around here. The 4WD does about 4,000k a year these days which is mostly the annual outback excursion, and the odd time I need to pull a trailer. The Leaf would happily pull a trailer, but it is not worth the expense of fitting a tow bar when the oil burner already has one.

    Metrix, whatever Toyota are saying about hydrogen, being in Japan for the past few weeks I can tell you what Toyota are actually doing is upgrading their plethora of Hybrid Synergy Drive models to plug-in status (PHEV) by fitting bigger batteries, whilst frantically working on new BEV platforms. Unless Toyota works out how to circumvent those annoying laws of physics* which determine the behaviour of all energy systems, don't expect any 'breakthroughs' in century old fuel cell physics in your lifetime, or that of your descendants, or their descendants, etc. (*Frankly, there's more chance that you are the Messiah than physics being broken.)
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Hilarious times in the electrical world.
    Cannot vouch for the authenticity but ???.

    




    Charging Electric Cars MELBOURNE



    I recently did some work for the body corporate at the Dock 5 Apartment Building in Docklands in Melbourne to see if we could install a small number of electric charging points for owners to charge their electric vehicles. We had our first three applications. We discovered:



    1. Our building has no non- allocated parking spaces ie public ones. This is typical of most apartment buildings so we cannot provide shared outlets.



    2. The power supply in the building was designed for the loads in the building with virtually no spare capacity. Only 5 or 6 chargers could be installed in total in a building with 188 apartments!!



    3. How do you allocate them as they would add value to any apartment owning one. The @@@@ fight started on day one with about 20 applications received 1st day and many more following.



    4. The car park sub-boards cannot carry the extra loads of even one charger and would have to be upgraded on any floors with a charger as would the supply mains to each sub board.



    5. The main switch board would then have to be upgraded to add the heavier circuit breakers for the sub mains upgrade and furthermore:



    6. When Docklands was designed a limit was put on the number of apartments in each precinct and the mains and transformers in the streets designed accordingly. This means there is no capacity in the Docklands street grid for any significant quantity of car chargers in any building in the area.



    7. It gets better. The whole CBD (Hoddle Grid, Docklands)and Southbank is fed by two sub stations. One in Port Melbourne and one in West Melbourne. This was done to have two alternate feeds in case one failed or was down for maintenance. Because of the growth in the city /Docklands and Southbank now neither one is now capable of supplying the full requirement of Melbourne zone at peak usage in mid- summer if the other is out of action. The Port Melbourne 66,000 volt feeder runs on 50 or 60 year old wooden power poles above ground along Dorcas Street South Melbourne. One is pole is located 40 cm from the corner Kerb at the incredibly busy Ferrars /St Dorcas St Intersection and is very vulnerable to being wiped out by a wayward vehicle.



    8. The infrastructure expenditure required would dwarf the NBN cost excluding the new power stations required

    These advocates of electric vehicles only by 2040 are completely bonkers. It takes 5-8 years to design and build a large coal fired power station like Loy Yang and even longer for a Nuclear one (That’s after you get the political will, permits and legislative changes needed ). Wind and solar just can’t produce enough. Tidal power might but that’s further away than nuclear.



    It's just a greenies dream in the foreseeable future other than in small wealthy countries. It will no doubt ultimately come but not in the next 20 years...



    The grid cannot support it in most places in Australia!












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    What is the obsession with domestic rapid chargers for BEVs? We only use fast chargers a few times a year during long journeys. Most cars, including electric ones, spend around 20+ hours of the day parked. Slow charging an electric car uses about the same power as a toaster. I think even the poorly designed electrics of Docklands could cope with that.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    .... Slow charging an electric car uses about the same power as a toaster. I think even the poorly designed electrics of Docklands could cope with that.
    Maybe not when the whole district is also making toast for breakfast

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    The green EV owners could advocate restarting coalfired power for the benefit of off-peak charging overnight .

  41. #1891
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclic View Post
    Hilarious times in the electrical world.
    Cannot vouch for the authenticity but ???.
    Pretty right for people who live in the real world.


  42. #1892
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    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    What is the obsession with domestic rapid chargers for BEVs? We only use fast chargers a few times a year during long journeys. Most cars, including electric ones, spend around 20+ hours of the day parked. Slow charging an electric car uses about the same power as a toaster. I think even the poorly designed electrics of Docklands could cope with that.
    Not many people would run a toaster for 9 hours or more a day, so that is a pretty poor comparison imho. If everybody in the district did pull an extra 2.5kW for extended periods there would be issues, they even have issues when everyone turns on their A/C. An EV might work great for you in your little isolated part of the world, but as for the rest of the REAL world, widespread use of EVs will be a long way off due to the lack of electrical infrastructure. My money is on Hydrogen for this reason, sure it mightn't be popular in Japan, but neither you nor I live in Japan do we? Japan is a lot different to Australia in so many ways and what works over there may not work at all over here. Unless Doc Emmet Brown releases the details of "Mr Fusion" https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Fusion , Hydrogen is Australia's future imho.
    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


  43. #1893
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    Maybe not when the whole district is also making toast for breakfast
    Surely there's gotta be some cereal munchers to save the day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey66 View Post
    My money is on Hydrogen
    I wonder if Bob is still running on Hydrogen.


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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    The green EV owners could advocate restarting coalfired power for the benefit of off-peak charging overnight .
    There's no need to restart anything. There is an ongoing problem with not enough electricity consumption overnight to keep dinosaur generators running efficiently.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey66 View Post
    An EV might work great for you in your little isolated part of the world, but as for the rest of the REAL world, widespread use of EVs will be a long way off due to the lack of electrical infrastructure.
    That's hilarious! Not having a grid connection makes energy management more difficult, not easier! For the real world, charging electric cars overnight is a solution to an current problem, namely using existing excess generation and transmission capacity when demand is low. I have the unusual problem of no generation capacity overnight when my BEV is sitting there unused.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey66 View Post
    An EV might work great for you in your little isolated part of the world, but as for the rest of the REAL world, widespread use of EVs will be a long way off due to the lack of electrical infrastructure.
    Totally agree.

  48. #1898
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    If every grid connected household in Australia can spare just a single 10A power point overnight for ~7 hours that will deliver enough energy for 850 million kilometres of range per day, enough for every person in Australia old enough to have a license to drive themselves more than 40km (the average distance cars are driven each day in Australia).

    It would add just 15% to the country's total required electricity generation, and would be supplied almost entirely by what is currently undespatch-able spare capacity in electricity generation, with no impact on peak loads or need to upgrade, by improving the duty cycle of existing infrastructure.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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    Default Electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by John2b View Post
    Just passed 80,000k in the inferior electric car and hit a major expense - had to fit a new cabin air filter for $26. Of course the other major expense was the decision to fit light truck tires about a year ago due to punctures from the rough roads around here. The 4WD does about 4,000k a year these days which is mostly the annual outback excursion, and the odd time I need to pull a trailer. The Leaf would happily pull a trailer, but it is not worth the expense of fitting a tow bar when the oil burner already has one.

    Metrix, whatever Toyota are saying about hydrogen, being in Japan for the past few weeks I can tell you what Toyota are actually doing is upgrading their plethora of Hybrid Synergy Drive models to plug-in status (PHEV) by fitting bigger batteries, whilst frantically working on new BEV platforms. Unless Toyota works out how to circumvent those annoying laws of physics* which determine the behaviour of all energy systems, don't expect any 'breakthroughs' in century old fuel cell physics in your lifetime, or that of your descendants, or their descendants, etc. (*Frankly, there's more chance that you are the Messiah than physics being broken.)
    Hmm-yes hydrogen has been around a while and it is great thing they just invented electrify to run the BEV’s last year

    Queensland has a hydrogen minister and we ( Andrew Forrest) are building large hydrogen plants up over he country.

    Whatever the further holds what I can say with certainty, I don’t have the time to wait overnight to “fill my tank” the BEV option falls over from this point. So either I get a hydrogen car or I use fossil fuel.


    Pro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestmount View Post
    So either I get a hydrogen car or I use fossil fuel.
    Pro
    Pretty easy choice there.

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