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  1. #1
    House Husband - 1K Club Member
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    Default setting up network

    I am in the throws of planning a wired network for our home and am wondering what components I would need to for it.
    We currently have broadband cable coming into the house through a cable modem then into a Netgear 4 port, wireless G router.
    I would like to have at least 13 wired points to plug into and wireless capacity as well (for sitting back in the garden) I would also like to run the most up to the moment cabling (cat7-7a?)
    The way I see it I would need an N wireless access point, a 24 port switch, and all the asocciated cabling.
    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Hi Sundancewfs,

    Yes, you would need a N wireless access point, a 24 port switch, you might also want to get a 24 port patch panel to terminate all your cabling. You might want to think about getting a 24 port Gigabit switch, that way you can move large files around fairly quickly, but better then 100mbs.

    You could also run phone points back to the patch panel and allow you to freely change ports around the house to be either data or phone.

    I went a bit nuts at my house, i ran a minimum of 4 ports per room, allowing me to change between phone/data fairly easily. - best thing i done, have people laptops/pc's running all over the house and everything just works

    Cheers

    Paul.

  3. #3
    1K Club Member jago's Avatar
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    Now I'm not a cabler or even a IT professional (anymore,some may say I never was) but I'm in the process of the cable and system design and spent most of last night discussing this with the system architect, the process and design ...some of my questions and his responses to my questions.

    Firstly what are trying to achieve with the system.

    • Internet only
    • Streaming of ; Video, Music, pictures
    • TV
    • Smart house, lights ..
    • Security?


    What type of wifi bridge

    On multi floor building consider using "in ceiling wirless acesss points" or in wall... to boost signal strength from your hard wired network


    Managed or Unmanaged switch

    Unless you're a code monkey go for an unmanged Gigabyte Switch

    Cable type
    Cat 6...I had read about Cat7 and this is a translation of his view;

    Cat 7 erm 10 Gig System ...you really have to be sure that all things are grounded correctly and then wait a couple of years to test if they have been,in terms of achieving the figures quoted... most large server systems don't achieve 1Gig let alone 10 Gig they burst upto these speeds, 1Gig, but on average run at a lot lower speeds.

    There was a conjecture about weather Cat7 was meant to be bent that much so potentially ruling it out of the domestic market...because of the extra thick insulation the bends are more restricted than coke can bends of cat5/6. making thebends bewtween studs and walls difficult to do. But that is a question for you to satisfy with your installer/designer


    As to the amount of points and cable this is personal but as he suggested there are some recommended minimums,

    Wall Points? Aside from computers how many peripherals do you currentlyhave that plug directly into a newtwork ,this should dictate how may points.

    at least 3-4 x Cat6 cables to each large flatscreen
    at least 2x Cat6 cables for each room toplay music, for inline amps to drive speakers,
    (these will also need low voltage power cables run)


    The list goes on depending on your expected usage,so I wont list everything

    I hope this helps but feel free to ping any questions

  4. #4
    Guv
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    Definitely get a patch panel as rapa suggested. Look at getting a gigabit switch if you are going to bother with cat6 (cat5e is more than capable gigabit duties in a typical home environment - but this future proofs you a little). An unmanaged switch, like jago suggested, is probably the way to go (also cheaper). For inspiration I ended up with a Siemon 24 port patch panel and HP 1400-24G unmanaged switch - both eBay bargains.

    Your management should be done in your router - if you are going to upgrade it, I suggest you also look into getting one with built-in hardware VOIP (I went with a Draytek, but Billion, d-link and others also do decent models to suit. It'll cut your phone bills dramatically - I'm on the whirlpool MyNetFone deal. Unlike jago suggested, I've run my phone ports to a dedicated phone line splitter as phone lines will carry additional voltage - something that could cause interference in your main data lines.

    Don't be too concerned about the port speed between the router and your switch - unsure on cable, but in the case of ADSL2+, the highest speed connection to the net is something in the order of 24mbit. i.e. VERY slow compared to a gigabit LAN.

    Regarding number of points per room, I went with 2x data, 1x phone. In the case of the TV, reciever etc, I still went with 2x data - but keep in mind that you can always piggyback a small switch at that point to run additional devices as they are unlikely to all be streaming at full speed at the same time. For interest, most video streaming devices still only use 10/100mbit connections (DVDs normally stream at 5-6MB/s but BDs generally need gigabit at upto 54MB/s).

    HTH

    Have fun.

  5. #5
    Not A Seagull Armers's Avatar
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    What i normally run for my clients is two cat5e/6 to each double gpo in the house (except for the silly ones, ie bathroom) To behind the potential tv points i run 3 cat5e/6 and 3 rg6... that is more then enough for anything to be run in a domestic environment. Then you've got speaker runs as well. That is my default.

    Special stuff is over and above that... as per along the lines as Jago is talking ie smart wiring.

    Cat 7 is not needed in a domestic environment, Cat6 rolls are about 170ish a roll Cat7 you're in the 250ish a roll... On top of that, most high end business aren't even using Cat7 at the moment (not inc banks / data centres and large data usage people), and I challange anyone to show me a real life domestic use for Cat7...

    Over the counter 50 dollar gig switches are fine these days... if its just pushing the internet around the house that is all you need.. If you're pushing high end files (10-30gig and higher) around then go a decent switch.

    On the side of wireless, be careful the N format is still a new format. Which means , if you get McDonalds N Router all your N cards must be McDonalds cards you could have trouble mixing and matching your Fast(food)Cards. G Is fine for most people for now, they are cheap as anyway.. IE just dropped in 4 commercial grade B / G Access Points into a school.. They were only 180 ea.


    In my house, that i've just finished wiring up i have 28 Cat6 Runs and 18 RG6 Runs Two Bedroom house... Once the extension is built to weatherproof 6-8more Cat6's are due, and i've not run my speakers yet. Nor Security. Not going to intercom this house, nor cctv.

    As i always say to potential clients and i am trying to tell the world.... Cable now while there are no walls... Even if you never use it, its there for future use.. Hence my over the topness. Yes a roll of cable costs 170ish now.... but think of what i'll charge once you're house is finished and you want a new phone point in a downstairs internal wall in the middle of the house on a solid slab.

    Please if you have any more questions i'll help out as much as i can for you. So without stroking my own ego I am a bit of a cable / IT geekie so happy to help, just ask plasterpro!

    Cheers
    Armers
    Last edited by Armers; 28th May 2010 at 07:37 PM. Reason: naughty speeeling!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundancewfs View Post
    I am in the throws of planning a wired network for our home and am wondering what components I would need to for it.
    We currently have broadband cable coming into the house through a cable modem then into a Netgear 4 port, wireless G router.
    I would like to have at least 13 wired points to plug into and wireless capacity as well (for sitting back in the garden) I would also like to run the most up to the moment cabling (cat7-7a?)
    The way I see it I would need an N wireless access point, a 24 port switch, and all the asocciated cabling.
    Any thoughts?
    g'day sundancewfs,

    by way of background i work for the company that invented routers, ethernet switching, WiFi, VoIP, and a whole slew of other things. i work on this stuff every day. in fact i work on designing/building network products that we sell over a billion dollars worth a year of. use that as background to what i'm about to say....


    for the cabling:

    suggest you just go with cat5e. that will be good enough for gigabit (1000Mbps).

    technically you could put in cat6A or cat7 cabling which potentially gets you to 10GbaseT but i would not bother.
    why? because a hard drive or even SSD drive is not likely to saturate 100MB/s read/write nor is it likely that you'll need anything faster than that any time soon, let alone in 13 rooms at the same time.
    you'll find that gigabit is plenty fast enough for whatever you need.
    if you need 10GbaseT in future you could always put cat6A / cat7 cabling in where you need, but history has shown none of this stuff is future-proof.
    10 years ago people were recommending cat3 cabling. then cat4. then cat5. then cat5e. then cat6. then cat6A. now cat7. its likely the NEXT 10 years will follow a similar projectory of new cabling types.

    cat5e can be had for less than $0.15 per metre, you won't find that with cat6/cat6a/cat7. not to mention things like cat6+ are a pain to work with given the increased cable diameter although its practically indestructible because of that (you can pull it through far more places without it stretching or getting damaged).

    wherever you run cables, run two. or three. use them for ethernet, analog phone cables, alarm cabling, home automation, even HDMI extensions these days, whatever you want.
    bring it back to a central place with a patch panel. then you can cross-connect between things as you wish.


    technically any permament cabling needs to be installed by a licensed cabler. of course you know that and would be getting someone to do it right?


    the switching

    my suggestion is to put in the cabling for all X rooms/points but don't bother with a switch for home that equals the ports because quite frankly its not likely you're going to have a wired device in every room anytime soon so no point paying the power bill for a 24 port switch today.

    suggest you just go with a 5 or 8 port switch today, e.g. a 10/100/1000 one, you can pick up an unmanaged one from the likes of msy.com.au for less than $40 or see the green guide.
    while there are a ton of limitations and shortcomings ("you get what you pay for"), reality is home use is not hundreds/thousands of MAC addresses, multicast optimizations or other stuff that the more expensive switches do.
    power-over-ethernet may be neat if you are using powered wireless devices or ip phone handsets but reality is you can meet those requirements with inline power injectors if need be.


    wireless

    suggest you go with an access point that does 802.11B/G/N if you can. if you have other devices at 2.4GHz then maybe 802.11A/N (5GHz) may make sense.
    what's the area you want to cover with wireless? does it include your workshop which is a separate building? if so, don't scrimp here. get something good.
    "good" doesn't necessarily mean "expensive". look up "UltraWAP" access points, there is a B/G/N version out which i use at home with a higher-gain antenna which covers the house area really well where i needed two access points previously.

    with a decent wireless setup and 802.11N you should be able to get real-world transfers in excess of 80Mbps over the entire space of your property.
    think about the best centralized place to put the access point that is away from EMI/EMR of other devices.


    cheers.

  7. #7
    House Husband - 1K Club Member
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    Well thats given me lots of food for thought!
    Thanks to all of you, who have contributed.

    I must admit I hadn't thought of phone lines, as we use 5.8Ghz cordless phones.

    Basically the needs will be internet and network access between computers, and the ability to stream audio and video from my main computer box (1.5Tb internal and 1Tb external) to my audio and video equipment.

    The old Netgear wireless G router I have will just reach the upstairs front window of the shed at a low signal strength and drops out occasionally thats about 45m, line of sight. All of our wireless device at the moment are G but I'm sure we will go up to N in the future as we replace the old dinosaurs we have now.

    We have a central storage room on the plan which will contain the HRV unit, ducting chases, any network switching we need and the brooms and vacuum cleaner etc...

    The cabling will be handled by my sparkie. (They ran the 2 cat5 cables down to the shed when we put the power and services in.)

  8. #8
    Not A Seagull Armers's Avatar
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    Good luck and have fun! You've got to have fun otherwise its not worth it

    Ask away if you need anymore info!

    Cheers
    Armers

  9. #9
    Guv
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armers View Post
    Good luck and have fun! You've got to have fun otherwise its not worth it

    Ask away if you need anymore info!
    Ditto!

    Got to say I'm impressed with the depth of knowledge available here (and even more so that we all generally agree! What is the internet coming to?!! )


  10. #10
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    Might be a little late now but, I'm a heavy computer user and have cabled up every room in my house, BUT I'm going to say this now, its not worth it unless you are transferring LARGE files and you want to do it often and fast.

    If its just to surf the net or watch movies or the such then Wireless is more than enough as long as you get a good ranged one, save the time money and holes in the walls you can even put in a repeater station to extend the range of the wireless around a very large distance.

    But now to completely confuse your choice again, if you want a VERY stable network then you should stick with cables only but again I haven't had much more than the occasional need to restart the hub to fix any issues. The main expense you might need is the cable fitting tools, some of them are extremely expensive for what they are.

  11. #11
    1K Club Member jago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abren View Post
    Might be a little late now but, I'm a heavy computer user and have cabled up every room in my house, BUT I'm going to say this now, its not worth it unless you are transferring LARGE files and you want to do it often and fast.

    If its just to surf the net or watch movies or the such then Wireless is more than enough as long as you get a good ranged one, save the time money and holes in the walls you can even put in a repeater station to extend the range of the wireless around a very large distance.

    But now to completely confuse your choice again, if you want a VERY stable network then you should stick with cables only but again I haven't had much more than the occasional need to restart the hub to fix any issues. The main expense you might need is the cable fitting tools, some of them are extremely expensive for what they are.

    Horses for courses ... I use up to 2 Gig files and trust me wifi would c rap itself trying to handle that.

    Structured cabling is still the way to go, with wifi hotspots in the house Cat 6 305m = $120 + punchdown, crimper and tester $70 cheap at double the price.

  12. #12
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    Problem with cable is if they want to make a good job and put it into the wall then, if they want to do it to regs, they actually need to get a licensed person to do it. I know I know its an easy job but hey if there not transferring the large files ie gig in size then wireless would be the best. My wireless has no problems transferring 4 gig files it just takes it dam sweet time about it, but it doesn't crap itself.

    But jago is right it all depends on the file sizes being shifted around, if it was for internet usage then wireless would be fine because the actual slow point would be the modem from the wall. At the moment the faster internet connections are around 15Mbps where as a basic wireless can peek at 54Mbps some can get up to 300Mbps if set up right. So for streaming movies over the net wireless is fine.

    Also to add a little more weight to wireless over cable, you can hook up many more individual items to wireless without having to add more switches or the such. Gaming consols - Xbox PS3, new TVs, TIVO, Smart Phones, Laptops, iPads, new cameras, Security Systems and anything else you can think might use the net, even the fridge. that's a LOT of cables and points and so so much more time each time you want to hook another one up.

  13. #13
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    300MBs is still not 1GBit/s. As soon as you start streaming to more than couple of devices a wired switch has to do better, while downloading from the internet at 100MBs ( With the new NBN!). If you have the opportunity to rough in cable you should do it, for a couple of hundred dollars you have (mostly) future proofed your house.

    Having a whole lot of devices connected to your network is a good reason to, if you can have as many wired as possible, and of course power over ethernet is useful for cameras and security .... and all sorts of other things. I agree wireless is generally fine .... for now.

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    3months ago on Install day it looked like this



    termination day Let the Cable spill forth



    Half way there



    and Done



    29 Network sockets, 11 TV, FTTH/ PSTN Lead in, 3 x RG6 + a Cat6 to the Roof for FTA and C band Sat
    PC/ Networking Geek,Licenced Cabler
    Jesus was a Chippie, I'm a data cabler..make sense ???
    "I don't just have tickets on myself, I have a whole booklet of tickets on myself"

  15. #15
    2K Club Member barney118's Avatar
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    sensational post ! Sub floor will be finished today upper storey then time to tackle the cabling, love the photos (last post) can some one dumb it down for me on some explanation of the 'boxes' etc, an unmanaged switch, port patch panel, FTTH/ PSTN Lead in, 3 x RG6 + a Cat6 to the Roof for FTA and C band Sat.
    Also can someone explain how wiring for one item is connected, ie from phoneline to router in to switch box out of the switchbox to someother box to distribute 3 lots of cable to the TV area various rooms in the house, does this make sense?
    I am trying to understand how I hook up my media player (movies PC, music HD, payTV) to the lounge which I take it would be the hardest option.
    Also did I read Cat 5e transfer's HDMI?
    If I want smart wiring for lights, tv on motorised bracket what is used for this cat 5 too? I have read some info on the creston system but its not really explained on whats involved for the wiring.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by barney118 View Post
    sensational post ! Sub floor will be finished today upper storey then time to tackle the cabling, love the photos (last post) can some one dumb it down for me on some explanation of the 'boxes' etc, an unmanaged switch, port patch panel, FTTH/ PSTN Lead in, 3 x RG6 + a Cat6 to the Roof for FTA and C band Sat.
    That is a Client/ Close mates House

    Info on switches: Network switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    FTTH/ PSTN Lead in: Fibre To The Home (pre wire) (2 x Cat6 and 2 x RG6 quad shield Coax acble) and PSTN (Plain Simple Telephone Network) as in a normal lead in to that rack so the client can use adsl/ phone services

    recently for FTTH pre wring i have changed the above to

    4 x Cat6, 1 x RG6 and a Power feed cable for the ONT Back up battery

    but to cater for "current" services i make one of the Cat6's just slightly longer so the telstra tech going to the House to conect them up to the PSTN doesn't freak out by having too many cables to deal with

    3x RG6 and 1 x Cat6 to the roof is for: FTA (Free To Air) antenna 1 x RG6 and the the others are for C band sat servcies that the client may or may not install later but as his house is 2 Story the cables had to be prewired in, the Cat6 is used to power up the dishes motor for Sat tracking

    Quote Originally Posted by barney118 View Post
    Also can someone explain how wiring for one item is connected, ie from phoneline to router in to switch box out of the switchbox to someother box to distribute 3 lots of cable to the TV area various rooms in the house, does this make sense?
    we use Distro Hubs to ensure the signal is strong enough for most houses. especially when combining Foxtel and FTA over the one RG6 you still need a seperate Foxtal STB (Set Top Box) in each room if you wish to watch different content in each room

    Quote Originally Posted by barney118 View Post
    I am trying to understand how I hook up my media player (movies PC, music HD, payTV) to the lounge which I take it would be the hardest option.
    Home file server, small media players or PC/ notebooks in each room for muisic/ dvd's and such, PayTV I've posted above about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by barney118 View Post
    Also did I read Cat 5e transfer's HDMI?
    IMO waste of time/ money ... with IP TV and other "online services" coming online in the next while getting hdmi signals around the house is a waste money

    Quote Originally Posted by barney118 View Post
    If I want smart wiring for lights, tv on motorised bracket what is used for this cat 5 too? I have read some info on the creston system but its not really explained on whats involved for the wiring.
    Umm start talking with a cabler in your area now... if you want lighting control and such you need to talk to a clued up Sparkie/ home automation guy.

    And IMEO home automation is a big wank unless you have serious dollars to spend on getting it right.

    Oh and Installing Network and Telephone cabling isn't a DIY venture...
    PC/ Networking Geek,Licenced Cabler
    Jesus was a Chippie, I'm a data cabler..make sense ???
    "I don't just have tickets on myself, I have a whole booklet of tickets on myself"

  17. #17
    1K Club Member jago's Avatar
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    FYI Barney ... Creston is old school and I wouldnt touch clipsal if you gave it to me but seriously look at Control4 Home Automation and Home Control > Home (I'm not affilated) and this stuff is something I am going to look at,,,iPort for ipad or touches home automation!!>

  18. #18
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    Thanks Pugs and Jago.
    I am still a miss on this running your own cabling issue, I have some good mates that are qualified and run thier own businesses as computer and another a sparky who are quite happy for me to run the cable for them, even teach to terminate the cat 5 cable, i dont see the difference in a DIY (learns how to do it from the experts) and a licenced guy using cheap apprentice labour who couldnt give a rats where it goes, ie pert built reno where you are going to cut out for internal stairs, put in cupboards how the layout will end up with fish tanks/pool tables/bar etc
    Now on the issue, are cable guys experienced in cutting a hole in a strucural member in the right spot and the recommended size? ie in a bearer or joist.

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