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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for aircon advise

    Hi all. Last summer scared the hell out of me. This is the first winter I sort of appreciated. Thinking of getting aircon installed but wanted to discuss this a bit, including systems that would suit our situation. So, bit of info.

    House is in Hepburn Springs (Daylesford) which is roughly 3 degrees cooler than Melbourne on average but sure did suffer the couple of 40+ week long heatwaves of last summer. Very occasionally can be equal or hotter than Melb, depending on weather but not as a rule.

    House is weatherboard, insulated walls and roof. Part pitched roof over living and kitchen, with two ceilings (old ceiling left in place, battened out for new ceiling), part skillion over bedrooms and bathroom.

    Front of house at ground level, sloping block gives 1.2ish meters standing room at rear of house. Raised deck behind house with timber cladding closing it off underneath with tin reverse roof.

    Nowhere inside the house I'd put a split system. Prefer ducted I think.

    Not a lot of spots to put floor vents for ducted but doable I think. How many vents in the living/kitchen would we need? I'd assume one in each bedroom too? Is under a window ok? Is in the corner where TV goes ok? (not a solid cabinet covering it)

    Would ceiling ducts be doable and would they work better or be less efficient? Would ceiling ducts mean roof mounted system (doesn't make sense that, what with all the heat on the roof) or could it still be subfloor?

    Living/kitchen 18m2
    2 bedrooms - 18m2
    Bathroom - 9m2
    Total area - 45m2

    Quite happy to cool the whole lot or can close bathroom door (concrete floor in bathroom) but seeing as it's so small a house and best to keep concrete floor cool, I figured cool the lot.

    So thinking about what type/brand/capacity system would work best for those stinking hot heatwaves. Probably won't use it all summer, just for the really hot days. Don't want to turn into a pussy.

    Oh, and not far off putting house on market so solar probably(definitely) not an option as it'll cost too much. Likely will be our last summer in this house.

    Are the systems heating and cooling or can you get just cooling? If so, price differences between the two, I imagine would be a bit? As we have very little area to heat and our smallest model Rinnai gas heater works awesomely for that, bit reluctant to go ducted heating. Also have open fire.

    Cheers for any info/input.

    Su.

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Hi Su
    If you are thinking of selling up so soon, such an investment may be lost if the new owners want to do additions. I think a ducted system like you describe might cost 2 to 3 times that of a split. Is the look of the split head unit putting you off this type of unit.

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    Hi phil. Yeah, they look bad and especially in such small space. Suppose it depends on overall cost a bit.

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    I really don't know much about how these things work. Foreign language. Bit more detail.

    I think ducts in the ceiling may be ok for lounge room but bedrooms have no ceiling space. Ducts in floor ok in bedrooms as has loads underfloor space. Ducts in lounge room could be underfloor in places that may not be opitmal regarding current layout (which can't really be changed) but best spot for duct would be floor along front house wall which is cutting it close for space. Just stuck a ruler down between the verandah decking at front door and it was 280mm to top of decking from ground, so close to that or maybe a little more for clearance.

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    Not trying to push any brand but this would be a good start to get a better understanding of the options and your needs:
    https://www.fujitsugeneral.com.au/residential-range

    For air conditioning you are better off with ceiling outlets as the cold air falls. If you go for floor mount the cold air would tend to pool on the ground. If you are only going to be in the house for another year I would seriously consider if you will get a return on your investment - for a full house ducted you could be pushing $15-$20k which is a lot that you will need to put on top of your asking price!
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    Given the location, I'm thinking that the humidity is probably fairly low when it's hot? If so then evaporative would be a cheaper option than a refrigerated system if you want ducted.

    That said, if you're about to sell then that adds more issues of the financial kind. Regardless of what you do, you can be sure that some potential buyer would prefer you'd done something else.....

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    Fujitsu in the last 2-3 years have really started to develop some really good systems. The house is a smallish size, 45sq m isnt really a huge amount of air.

    You could get away with a 8.5kw ducted. I quoted a fujitsu 8.5kw ducted the other day (in roof) which had 5 outlets. I think the overall price was 7500-7700, this includes the power supply (always ask this because some fridgies arent sparkies). Under floor MAY cost you more depending on what you want, remember you will be requiring a floor or wall mounted return air grille and box in there somewhere as well with the ducted system if you go under floor.

    Definately can put grilles under windows, can be very beneficial actually.

    Nothing wrong with a split system. Yes they can be obtrusive but they are the cheapest way youll economically cool your house

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot View Post
    Not trying to push any brand but this would be a good start to get a better understanding of the options and your needs:
    https://www.fujitsugeneral.com.au/residential-range

    For air conditioning you are better off with ceiling outlets as the cold air falls. If you go for floor mount the cold air would tend to pool on the ground. If you are only going to be in the house for another year I would seriously consider if you will get a return on your investment - for a full house ducted you could be pushing $15-$20k which is a lot that you will need to put on top of your asking price!

    You wont pay anywhere near 15 grand for what she needs in a 45sqm home. I can do an Actron ESP plus 15kW variable capacity 8 zone, 10-12 outlet unit for 13-15 grand
    Last edited by Uncle Bob; 4th Oct 2014 at 06:47 PM. Reason: added an S ;)

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    to answer other questions in your post

    ceiling mounted unit - 95% of units in homes are mounted in the ceiling. The heat in the ceiling is of no concern really as most units are either internally or externally insulated, as well as they dont use any roof space air in the process. That being said a well ventilated ceiling never hurt anybody.

    IF you had an underfloor mounted unit and the ducts running into the ceiling expect poorer results.

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    Default Re: Looking for aircon advise

    If you're putting it on the market soon, I'd just go with a single split system.

    Only issue is trying to push cooling into the rooms.

    However yours is small, so shouldn't be too much of an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    Given the location, I'm thinking that the humidity is probably fairly low when it's hot? If so then evaporative would be a cheaper option than a refrigerated system if you want ducted.

    That said, if you're about to sell then that adds more issues of the financial kind. Regardless of what you do, you can be sure that some potential buyer would prefer you'd done something else.....
    Yeah, humidity not generally an issue here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian7886 View Post
    Fujitsu in the last 2-3 years have really started to develop some really good systems. The house is a smallish size, 45sq m isnt really a huge amount of air.

    You could get away with a 8.5kw ducted. I quoted a fujitsu 8.5kw ducted the other day (in roof) which had 5 outlets. I think the overall price was 7500-7700, this includes the power supply (always ask this because some fridgies arent sparkies). Under floor MAY cost you more depending on what you want, remember you will be requiring a floor or wall mounted return air grille and box in there somewhere as well with the ducted system if you go under floor.

    Definately can put grilles under windows, can be very beneficial actually.

    Nothing wrong with a split system. Yes they can be obtrusive but they are the cheapest way youll economically cool your house
    Ok, 7.5K is a lot and probably too much to spend considering on plans to sell fairly soon. It's not that I don't think it's worth it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brian7886 View Post
    to answer other questions in your post

    ceiling mounted unit - 95% of units in homes are mounted in the ceiling. The heat in the ceiling is of no concern really as most units are either internally or externally insulated, as well as they dont use any roof space air in the process. That being said a well ventilated ceiling never hurt anybody.

    IF you had an underfloor mounted unit and the ducts running into the ceiling expect poorer results.
    Ok, makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot View Post
    For air conditioning you are better off with ceiling outlets as the cold air falls. If you go for floor mount the cold air would tend to pool on the ground.
    Makes sense
    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    If you're putting it on the market soon, I'd just go with a single split system.

    Only issue is trying to push cooling into the rooms.

    However yours is small, so shouldn't be too much of an issue.
    I wondered if just one or two ducts in the lounge/kitchen ceiling and just let the bedrooms take cool air from there would work. Both the bedroom doors are directly off that space.

    Would one or two ducts significantly reduce the cost down from that 7.5k mark?

    Maybe just suck it up for another year and think about how the new house is going to work instead. That one will be interesting. Bedrooms up in the roof area. Will need excellent insulation and some good cross flow ventilation with air conditioning for the worst days

    Are there any portable units (that I can store when not in use and sell on later) that actually work on 40+ days? Any recommendations for quality products/models? The only place to sit one would be in front of the fireplace. Do they need to be vented outside or anything? Can you do that using the chimney?

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    Was almost going to suggest a portable air con but they don't work as well as splitting the system. You also need to run a ducting hose out a window but would be much better than nothing. A portable evaporative cooler may be more suitable, though never used one to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Was almost going to suggest a portable air con but they don't work as well as splitting the system. You also need to run a ducting hose out a window but would be much better than nothing. A portable evaporative cooler may be more suitable, though never used one to know.
    Could the ducting be put up the chimney? Is there perhaps one that works better than most and what would be likely to happen when using it on 40+ days

    The only spot I think I could put a split system would be over the front door however, they stick out the wall tho don't they or is the outside bit separate and able to be put out of sight?

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    Default Looking for aircon advise

    A split system the outdoor unit can be put anywhere yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    Could the ducting be put up the chimney? Is there perhaps one that works better than most and what would be likely to happen when using it on 40+ days

    The only spot I think I could put a split system would be over the front door however, they stick out the wall tho don't they or is the outside bit separate and able to be put out of sight?
    The split system has the compressor outside, somewhere, anywhere but generally within 10m of the inside wall head unit, which protrudes high up on the wall.

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    The use of the chimney as a flue would work very well for a portable unit and sounds ideal. No need to run any hose ducting up it either. When you move you could on-sell it.
    If you get a split system then this would likely give you best resale return against your outlay compared with fully ducted.
    So portable unit will be cheapest overall but doesn't enhance any resale value.
    Split is a good choice and could enhance resale;
    Ducted, may not recoup your outlay.

    The purchaser of your property is the unknown factor and pretty much dictates how much the inclusion of ac is worth to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    The use of the chimney as a flue would work very well for a portable unit and sounds ideal. No need to run any hose ducting up it either. When you move you could on-sell it.
    If you get a split system then this would likely give you best resale return against your outlay compared with fully ducted.
    So portable unit will be cheapest overall but doesn't enhance any resale value.
    Split is a good choice and could enhance resale;
    Ducted, may not recoup your outlay.

    The purchaser of your property is the unknown factor and pretty much dictates how much the inclusion of ac is worth to them.
    that pretty much nails it.
    only thing I would add is if you go for a split system the outlet unit doesn't have to be one of those ugly wall mount units but can be a wall mount floor level unit like this:



    less ugly, as they are thinner and don't protrude into the room as much.
    I reckon one outlet would do you with ceiling fans, especially in the bedrooms.

    here is a link to the Daikin one:Daikin
    "Daikinís floor standing air conditioning units are compact and ideal for anyone wanting the convenience and access of positioning their unit closer to the floor. They can even be semi-recessed into the wall or in an unused fireplace. The units use either top, or top and bottom discharge vents to distribute air evenly throughout the room."
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails home_solution_split_floor_standing.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post
    that pretty much nails it.
    only thing I would add is if you go for a split system the outlet unit doesn't have to be one of those ugly wall mount units but can be a wall mount floor level unit like this:



    less ugly, as they are thinner and don't protrude into the room as much.
    I reckon one outlet would do you with ceiling fans, especially in the bedrooms.

    here is a link to the Daikin one:Daikin
    "Daikinís floor standing air conditioning units are compact and ideal for anyone wanting the convenience and access of positioning their unit closer to the floor. They can even be semi-recessed into the wall or in an unused fireplace. The units use either top, or top and bottom discharge vents to distribute air evenly throughout the room."
    These seem interesting although I can't find space for permanent install of one as there isn't any free wall space. Can they be set up as temporary, sitting in front of fireplace?

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    Split systems are plumbed in with dual copper pipe runs plus the wiring loom. It pretty much is a permanent fixture and would mean the fireplace becomes redundant.

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    I think I need to reiterate. Not needing heating. Just cooling. Does this make any difference to unobtrusive choices?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    I think I need to reiterate. Not needing heating. Just cooling. Does this make any difference to unobtrusive choices?
    Sorry, my wording might be in error. If you put a floor type like that in front of the fireplace then it is permanently there, you can't pick it up and store it; so the fireplace is no longer available for heating. You can only do this with the portable units we were talking about earlier.

    The one Tools showed is a split system and is plumbed into an outside compressor. If you disconnect the plumbing then the gas escapes. Split systems are 2 part systems with the big, noisy bit outside. The outside compressor compresses a gas to a liquid that is piped to the indoor unit that lets the liquid become a gas again.

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    As you will be moving out/selling soon would a portable swampy be more cost effective?
    Work best on the hot dry days and that is what the last wave of hot weather was, very dry heat and water coolers go well together and minimal cash outlay; combined with a couple of shade sails and the outlay may be blow $500-
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    The split system has the compressor outside, somewhere, anywhere but generally within 10m of the inside wall head unit, which protrudes high up on the wall.
    most have a 30 metre max distance. Usually require additional gas after about 7.5m. Depending on manufacturer of course. This is where some of the back yard guys run into trouble. they install them put 20 metres of pipe on them and then find they dont work on hot days

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    These seem interesting although I can't find space for permanent install of one as there isn't any free wall space. Can they be set up as temporary, sitting in front of fireplace?
    ive often mounted these to a fire place (not used anymore) after framing up and lining the opening of the thing.

    Expect to pay 1000-1500 MORE for a floor console type unit over a wall hung

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Sorry, my wording might be in error. If you put a floor type like that in front of the fireplace then it is permanently there, you can't pick it up and store it; so the fireplace is no longer available for heating. You can only do this with the portable units we were talking about earlier.

    The one Tools showed is a split system and is plumbed into an outside compressor. If you disconnect the plumbing then the gas escapes. Split systems are 2 part systems with the big, noisy bit outside. The outside compressor compresses a gas to a liquid that is piped to the indoor unit that lets the liquid become a gas again.
    Interestingly there are portable splits out there. Found out about these yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    As you will be moving out/selling soon would a portable swampy be more cost effective?
    Work best on the hot dry days and that is what the last wave of hot weather was, very dry heat and water coolers go well together and minimal cash outlay; combined with a couple of shade sails and the outlay may be blow $500-
    It's a consideration although I'm starting to come back to the split system, in spite of it's ugliness drawback

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian7886 View Post
    ive often mounted these to a fire place (not used anymore) after framing up and lining the opening of the thing.

    Expect to pay 1000-1500 MORE for a floor console type unit over a wall hung
    Wow, big price difference.

    If I could find a quality split system that is flatter to the wall and not so fugly, I think I'd be happy enough. The only place I could put it is over the front door. This would direct it towards the entire house too. Would the installation cause unsightly protrusions above the doorway externally?

    Anyone got ideas on the cassette type of system. They don't have ducting but are ceiling mounted. Are there any good looking units in this type of arrangement? I think they are more expensive than splits.

    something like this http://www.airwaresales.com.au/produ...sp?product=287 but better looking/flatter. How big are they? The link on the page to manufacturers spec doesn't work

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    [QUOTE=shauck;950306] The only place I could put it is over the front door. This would direct it towards the entire house too. Would the installation cause unsightly protrusions above the doorway externally? ]

    Su, when I did my first unit I ran the pipework myself because I knew the installer would do the quick and easy. I took the pipework under the house and up through a linen cupboard. The drainage conduit I took down inside the stud wall. At least none of the installation was visible but with you about how fugly the head unit is.

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    I'd go a 'right sized' split system in the living/kitchen and ceiling fans in the living and 2 x bedrooms. 99.99% of prospective buyers seeing a wall mounted split will say 'good' rather than 'bad'. Ceiling fans are very cheap and great additions imho.

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    We looked at ducted reverse cycle or evaporative to replace our 30 year old evaporative to cool our 100 sqm. The specialist to one look at our place then asked "what's your power like?". I told him that being at the end of a long piece of string we had some impressive voltage fluctuations and the usual quirks. And he said definitely a 8000cfm Breezair EXH190 swampy.

    His reasoning was that anything big enough to cool the five spaces of our place (without significant thermal mass) would be way too big for our power supply to reliably deal with and would be especially vulnerable on the repetitive 42+ degree heatwave days such as last summer. Plus we'd be well north of ten grand for a reverse cycle and wouldn't have sufficient area outside for the exchanger anyway (1000x900x600).

    So we had the new swampy installed last Friday ($5400 with five outlets, new dropper and new R1.5 ducting ). We test fired it yesterday arvo when we got home. It was 31 outside and 25 inside and it sank the internal temperature by 3 in just a half hour. The old swampy would've made the house warmer!!
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    [QUOTE=phild01;950315]
    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    The only place I could put it is over the front door. This would direct it towards the entire house too. Would the installation cause unsightly protrusions above the doorway externally? ]

    Su, when I did my first unit I ran the pipework myself because I knew the installer would do the quick and easy. I took the pipework under the house and up through a linen cupboard. The drainage conduit I took down inside the stud wall. At least none of the installation was visible but with you about how fugly the head unit is.
    I suppose an installer could come onsite and we could talk about how to set it up unobtrusively.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    I'd go a 'right sized' split system in the living/kitchen and ceiling fans in the living and 2 x bedrooms. 99.99% of prospective buyers seeing a wall mounted split will say 'good' rather than 'bad'. Ceiling fans are very cheap and great additions imho.
    This is the way I'm leaning at the moment. Just not fans in the bedrooms as ceiling height is low and the rooms are very small with light fittings over the beds. Little too close practically and aesthetically. The heater works to heat the whole house so I'm hoping the aircon will do this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    We looked at ducted reverse cycle or evaporative to replace our 30 year old evaporative to cool our 100 sqm. The specialist to one look at our place then asked "what's your power like?". I told him that being at the end of a long piece of string we had some impressive voltage fluctuations and the usual quirks. And he said definitely a 8000cfm Breezair EXH190 swampy.

    His reasoning was that anything big enough to cool the five spaces of our place (without significant thermal mass) would be way too big for our power supply to reliably deal with and would be especially vulnerable on the repetitive 42+ degree heatwave days such as last summer. Plus we'd be well north of ten grand for a reverse cycle and wouldn't have sufficient area outside for the exchanger anyway (1000x900x600).

    So we had the new swampy installed last Friday ($5400 with five outlets, new dropper and new R1.5 ducting ). We test fired it yesterday arvo when we got home. It was 31 outside and 25 inside and it sank the internal temperature by 3 in just a half hour. The old swampy would've made the house warmer!!
    Thankfully this house is so small, we shouldn't have a problem with power. I will keep that in mind for the new house though.

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    Kiddies wading pool and a few beers will see you through Su. Once upon a time everyone lived without AC and survived just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    The heater works to heat the whole house so I'm hoping the aircon will do this too.
    From what I have found, this doesn't work well when cooling unless the ac is left continuously running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringtail View Post
    Kiddies wading pool and a few beers will see you through Su. Once upon a time everyone lived without AC and survived just fine.
    Yeah. I know. As my mate says "suck it up cry baby".

    We have a fibreglass clawfoot bathtub that gets dragged out for the hot days.

    I do recall, you have a rather flash swimming pool....

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    From what I have found, this doesn't work well when cooling unless the ac is left continuously running.
    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    Yeah. I know. As my mate says "suck it up cry baby".

    We have a fibreglass clawfoot bathtub that gets dragged out for the hot days.

    I do recall, you have a rather flash swimming pool....

    Yes indeed. The pool is awesome and just the ticket to take the edge off. I don't live in it or sleep in it though. Living or sleeping in AC is awful IMO. People that work in an office don't know any different but that's why they are constantly sick. It's such a shame that the powers that be are making us build esky houses to suit an artificial environment rather than insisting on natural light, ventilation, aspect, shading etc.....While those of us fortunate enough to work outdoors become accustomed to seasonal changes and temperatures, the AC dwellers keel over at 30 degrees. Not to mention the cost to provide and run this artificial bubble. Bugger that.

    ps, I would never call you a cry baby Su. Princess maybe

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringtail View Post
    Yes indeed. The pool is awesome and just the ticket to take the edge off. I don't live in it or sleep in it though. Living or sleeping in AC is awful IMO. People that work in an office don't know any different but that's why they are constantly sick. It's such a shame that the powers that be are making us build esky houses to suit an artificial environment rather than insisting on natural light, ventilation, aspect, shading etc.....While those of us fortunate enough to work outdoors become accustomed to seasonal changes and temperatures, the AC dwellers keel over at 30 degrees. Not to mention the cost to provide and run this artificial bubble. Bugger that.

    ps, I would never call you a cry baby Su. Princess maybe

    people in offices are constantly sick? Thats an old wives tale. But the cause of these isnt air conditioning, its either poorly designed air conditioning, poor maintained air conditioning or non-compliant air conditioning.

    Office blocks have air conditioning, they have this as now they cant have opening windows above a certain height. These air conditioning systems either incorporate fresh air through them, or have a seperate fresh air ventilation system throughout the building. Obviously every building will be different. Then you throw in things like controlled climate systems, where we would install fresh air ventilation that is fan forced and controlled by temperature. Meaning mid-summer this fresh air would start pouring through the building in the middle of the night when it is 10 degrees to pre-cool the building, saving the air con work as well as meaning people spend less time in air conditioned air. Its not unhealthy if the unit is properly cleaned regularly

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    Old wives tail ? Don't think so. People in offices are constantly sick. The flu season in Brisbane this year has being going all year. Bad personal hygiene counts for a lot but breathing recirc air in a confined space plays more than a minor roll. Planes are the worst. And as you say, " if the unit is cleaned regularly" is a big if. However, we are not talking office blocks but domestic housing in this case. It's totally personal opinion mind you. If one wants to live in an artificial environment then go for it. Just realise that it's neither healthy or cheap.

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    JB1
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    Default Re: Looking for aircon advise

    I wouldn't blame the air-conditioning for people in an office building getting sick. More of the fact that people are in a closed environment.

    And you can't really heat efficiently if there wasn't recirculated air.

    You could possible say the same thing about super insulated houses. No new air.

    I wouldn't blame the aircond, it's just that all offices use Aircond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    You could possible say the same thing about super insulated houses. No new air.
    This keeps me wondering about closing up a house so no new air can creep in.

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    Realistically, in domestic, in Vic, AC for cooling is like 10 to 14 days per year. Relax.

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    I mostly like summer temperatures. They are usually around 30 degrees which is pleasant and mostly sleep-able temperatures at night. It's the 40+ days with hot still nights that I don't like. When we had those two separate weeks of 40+, I was exhausted by the end of it from not sleeping and not getting any respite from the heat. Even tho I dislike airconditioning (always makes me feel like I'm about to get a cold), I would use it on those occasions. Either that or go rent an airconditioned holiday accomodation for that week. Bet they'd all be booked out tho.

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    Pertinent to your question Su; I have just spent 3 days putting up shade sails on the Eastern exposure, I'll do the Northern side after the W/E.
    Keeping the heap out is always the first response
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Yep. Totally agree. Have shade cloth that comes down over the front verandah opening to stop late afternoon sun hitting the front wall. That's about as much as I can do at this point. Doesn't stop those horrendously hot days. Nothing does. The hot air gets in eventually.

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    Yes Cecile needs ; I mean really needs; the A/C even in reasonably mild weather so later on I'm getting up on the roof and adding the shade sails above the tin roof.
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

    Legal disclaimer denying responsibility to be inserted here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    I mostly like summer temperatures. They are usually around 30 degrees which is pleasant and mostly sleep-able temperatures at night. It's the 40+ days with hot still nights that I don't like. When we had those two separate weeks of 40+, I was exhausted by the end of it from not sleeping and not getting any respite from the heat. Even tho I dislike airconditioning (always makes me feel like I'm about to get a cold), I would use it on those occasions. Either that or go rent an airconditioned holiday accomodation for that week. Bet they'd all be booked out tho.
    Totally agree, that's where my 10 to 14 days came from, but I guess last summer it was closer to 20 days given the heatwaves. I was at the Tennis for 2 of the 40+ days - so oppressive just watching, let alone for the players. Anyway, if sleeping is a problem (and is for me too), please reconsider a ceiling fan. These are great set on a slow rotation to just move air over you, and are silent (well, they should be!). Take a spray bottle or a damp face washer to bed, and nigh-nighs

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    Cheap pedestal floor fans are cheaper and almost as effective
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    Cheap pedestal floor fans are cheaper and almost as effective
    I can't sleep with them as they make too much noise, even on low. Big ceiling blades move enough air and make no noise when set low. In my experience...

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    When I'm tired I can sleep through earthquakes
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    When I'm tired I can sleep through earthquakes
    Can you get to sleep while the earthquake is happening?

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    YEP So long as it's only a 3 or less
    "A big boy did it and ran away"

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    I had 3 x ceiling fans updated last year to remote controlled ones.....just perfect!! Oh so silent and it's just a touch on the remote screen to set the timer. The previous fans in this house were 20yo and very noisy, not to mention those chunky/clunky wall switches that you have to get out of bed to turn off. Money well spent....the new fans were only $79 each at the green shed and the sparky charged $50 each to swap over from the old clunkers.

    ;-))

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