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  1. #1
    mia
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    Default Nobo heat panels

    Sorry I dont have time to introduce myself ( in a rush) I wnat to buy a Nobo 2000 watt Nobo heat panel for a smallish 3 bedroom house at the bottom of Mount Bogong in Victoria.. gets very icy and averages minus 4 over night. wood is too expensive now and I know ther Nobo is 12 cents an hour. . the new E line sounds perfect .. could anyone telkl me where to buy one at the cheapest price ? and would one be enough for a lounge room & small kitchen area? I dont like hot bedrooms and have a warm bed and a window open even in winter.,. not too far any help would be appreciated.. Harvey Norman is more expensive than the Good Guys ? I would be buying it from Wodonga,. Albury or Wangaratta.
    any help appreciated.. thank you . .Mia

  2. #2
    1K Club Member Master Splinter's Avatar
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    How well it heats more than a single room will depend on house design, the amount of insulation in walls and ceiling, windows and curtains, all that sort of stuff.

    If there is a standard doorway between the two rooms, you wont get any real heat transfer into the other room - you need a pretty big opening to get natural convection to do the work!

    Don't get too enthused by the running costs; their estimates are based on a 50% duty cycle, so it's only on half the time. It wouldn't surprise me if a 2000 watt heater needed to be on continually to warm your place if insulation is lacking.

    If price is an issue, just get a standard thermostatically controlled 2,400 watt plug-in oil filled column radiator - you can pick these up from about $80, and they are just as efficient, energy wise, as the Nobo or any other electric heater (100% efficiency).

    For any improvement over that, you'll need to move to reverse cycle air conditioning which will give you up to 350% efficiency.

  3. #3
    Old Chippy 6K
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    these are just an expensive way to buy an electric radiator with even heat a timer and a thermostat. As Master Splinter says you can get equivalent performance with an equivalently rated (in watts) oil column heater which is also even heat, has wheels, come with thermostats and timers and clothes racks etc and are a fraction of the price.

    Although as Master Slpinter says they are 'efficient' (not quite 100% but very close) that refers to the operation as a local heater and user of the energy in the house. The energy delivered to the house to power that electric heater in Australia gets there at about 25% efficiency off the grid. Heat pumps and other efficient forms of heating are best - and spend any savings on getting an oil column and not the Nobo on some insulation or just some warmer clothes & bedding! No such thing as bad weather - only wrong clothes!

  4. #4
    mia
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    Okay thank you, the one I am looking at is in the E series and is $475 ..at one place and over $500 at another.. its the 2000 watt model. . I am more interested in warmth really, would it be warm in a smallish loungeroom /kitchen? its onoy meant for this area. . not a large lougeroom, very old house as all the houses are in this town, built for the SEC in the late 40's and early 50's . . its a toss up with getting an old conarra fixed. .waffle plates buckled andi t needs a new tray and then wood @ $90 -100 a metre and a metre lasts 10 days aprox. . this old Coonara is in the wall and is big.. has a big wood box. . or. . . the Novo .. for the main eating/living area.. it must be insulated I have never looked, as its quite cool in very hot summers ( well the air con is on too) lots of trees to keep it shady and the winters havent been too bad. . so far . . the wood was great but horribly expensive now.. I bought a Rinai gas heater and that was useless as it chewed up gas in a second.. I only have bottled gas here .. so that was sold off. .. that was $1000 , and hopeless. so the only option now is the Nobo. I have a small oil column heater which I use in the bedroom or anywhere, its okay .. not mad about it. . none of these heaters have any ambience and thats what makes a place look cosy and feel cosier.. so you think a Nobo is just a glorified radiator ? I wonder if a radiator where I could see the glowing element would be just as good ,, a 2000 watt also .. I dont know what brands are good or bad. .its a headache & a hassle. any more advice gratefully accepted. .

  5. #5
    mia
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    OKay .. well the bed is warm , very warm, just the way the pug likes it and I dont like stuffy bedrooms anyway, the small oil column heater I have is not warm at all, its only a little one though . . about 6 coils? I just dont know what a larger oil column heater would be like as the small one is not cosy .. I would need the 2000 watt Nobo for the area, Im, sure it would be warm but if there is a cosier alternative anyone knows of , I would love to hear from you. Thankyou for helping. . ( cost is important.. but heat is more so ) thanks Mia

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    mia
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    "If price is an issue, just get a standard thermostatically controlled 2,400 watt plug-in oil filled column radiator - you can pick these up from about $80, and they are just as efficient, energy wise, as the Nobo or any other electric heater (100% efficiency). "


    Master Splinter, these 2400 watt plug in oil filled column radiators. . . are they as warm as the 2000 watt nobo ? its really all about warmth . . would I need two ? and is the cost around the same as a nobo ? not excessively high ? if they are as warm, perhaps two. or I guess any 2400 watt electric heater would be the same ? heat wise? thank you

  7. #7
    mia
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    I mean running cost . .. the oil one and the nobo .. about the same ? again tho. . its the heat output, which electric heater is the warmest .. I hate electric heating but have no choice really. . thanks again ....so lets forget cost . . running cost ..and go for the warmest thanks

  8. #8
    Old Chippy 6K
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia View Post
    "If price is an issue, just get a standard thermostatically controlled 2,400 watt plug-in oil filled column radiator - you can pick these up from about $80, and they are just as efficient, energy wise, as the Nobo or any other electric heater (100% efficiency). "


    Master Splinter, these 2400 watt plug in oil filled column radiators. . . are they as warm as the 2000 watt nobo ? its really all about warmth . . would I need two ? and is the cost around the same as a nobo ? not excessively high ? if they are as warm, perhaps two. or I guess any 2400 watt electric heater would be the same ? heat wise? thank you
    - They are cheaper and just as warm - in fact 400W warmer . . . A 2000 or 2400 watt simple radiator is not as effective because it puts out concentrated heat in a small area so is mainly radiant and not much convection and they are not as safe either (elements are usually visible albeit with protecting barriers of some sort).

    A 2400 watt fan heater can be OK but tends to create drafts and there is the fan noise (if used with a thermostat the running cost will be similar) Both the Nobo and the oil columns use an additional means to balance the heat output to be more even and to spread it over a larger area through a small amount of radiant and a lot of convective heat. The running cost is totally related to how long the heater is on to get the comfort you want.

    Two types that use that secondary method to even the heat out (Nobo & oil) will be the same running costs given the timer and thermostat settings used are the same. The difference is that the Nobo might be thought to look prettier (and since you really just want it function as an effective heater who cares?) and the oil column will be much cheaper to buy (and no dearer to run).

    The other thing is to spend some time looking at simple way to stop heat loss - any gaps around windows and doors can be blocked off with cheap foam strips and so on. If you have wall vents these can be filled or covered so none of you costly heat escapes. See: http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/fs62.html for hints about heating and cooling.

  9. #9
    1K Club Member Master Splinter's Avatar
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    Heat is heat, especially when it comes from electricity. 2,400 watts is, like Bloss said, 400 watts more than 2,000, so it will provide nearly a quarter more heat.

    As a 2,400 watt heater has a higher total output than a 2,000 watt one, it will be able to get a room up to your comfortable temperature faster; once at that temperature, the thermostat will cycle it on and off to maintain it. (I have a suspicion that a larger model would be slightly more efficient as it would get up to temp / recover losses faster, but I think it would really be hair splitting)

    The Nobos are just a simple resistance element type of heater - exactly the same sort of thing as you will find in your kettle or oven or radiant heater or even your hair dryer; the only difference is that the resistance of the element is worked out so that heating occurs over a larger area so that it doesn't get too hot if accidentally touched.

    Oil column heaters are a bit more like a kettle in design; a smaller element that gets much hotter - but it is in a large oil bath so that the oil heats up and transfers the heat to the fins of the radiator, and the larger surface area for heat transfer means that it stays at a not-too-hot-if-touched temperature.

    Your bedroom heater is probably a 1,000 or 1,200 watt model - just check on the manufacturer's plate on it (usually just near where the plug lead connects) and it will tell you. (might be in amps, to covert amps to watts, just multiply by 240 - so if it says 5 amps, that's 1,200 watts).

    If you have a reasonable amount of insulation, and not too big a room, 2,400 watts should be able to do it, but you'll find that it will be slow to heat the room (say an hour, hour and a half to get it from outside temp to 20 degrees).

    But if you had a gas heater, and it was chewing through the gas...it does suggest that you might need extra insulation - gas can deliver up to 90% of its energy content as heat, so it's actually quite an efficient heat source.

    As you are talking about feeling warm - to me it sounds like you need something that actually puts out heat you can really feel when you stand in front of it.

    ...in which case a Nobo type heater would be low on the list as they use a large surface area, warmed to 40-50 degrees, which doesn't really lend itself to the 'sitting in front of a wood fire' feeling.

    If that's the sort of effect you are after, have a look at some of the new-fangled bar heaters that come complete with thermostats and fans (for example of what I mean, see here http://www.myshopping.com.au/ZM--385484333_Heaters ...no recommendation, just the first site I found with pics of what I'm talking about). And yes, their 2,400 watts would be just the same, heat wise, as any other 2,400 watt heater.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Eastie's Avatar
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    I'd say oil heaters act a little more on the radiant principle than convection, therefore comparing wattage alone is not apples for apples in relation to performance. Panel heaters use convection to induct and draw air over an element as opoposed to allowing free air flow around an element - may seem insignificant but it vastly influences the performance. As mentioned the face of the convection panels doesn't get hot - a major advantage if you have kids. Having experienced both I would take a convection panel over a radiant column as they heat up quickly and in my experience the air circulation gets rooms warm in a relatively short time compared to radiant heaters. There are cheaper versions of the nobo available that are just as good (e.g. Noirot - look them up on google, they are on ebay now and then). Timer function models are great if you want to cut back on use to night only or morning only etc, as you can set multiple programs as well as operating them manually. I think The Good Guys have identical models to the nobo.

  11. #11
    Old Chippy 6K
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastie View Post
    I'd say oil heaters act a little more on the radiant principle than convection, therefore comparing wattage alone is not apples for apples in relation to performance.
    You might say that but you'd be wrong. See: http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au...le_heaters.pdf which is a good info doc on heaters and says inter alia about column oil heaters: These heaters have electric elements immersed in oil, which heat their outer casing. They produce natural convective heat, as air is circulated over the surface of the fins, and also emit some radiant heat.

    As it says, principally convection is how oil column heaters work - and placement within a room is very important just as it is with flat panel or any convection heaters. The column heaters are a smaller physical size, but the surface area on a column heater can easily equal or exceed a flat panel heater and that's why they are so effective. It's about value for money on capital cost - running costs are in the control of the user so long as timers and thermostats are used.

    But if aesthetics and perception is an issue and someone is happy to pay for it then the Nobo will work fine of course. My inference from the OP was that cost was a factor, but there seemed to be some misunderstanding about relative running costs which rapidly overtake purchase cost with all electric heaters (and others).

  12. #12
    mia
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    Thank you Bloss, a very informative message , I had no idea oil column heaters would be as warm, I havent used mine much, it just comes in handy on a cool morning to take the nip off as Bruce Ruxton used to sing lol .. ( it's 42 degrees and theres a nip in the air ) The Ruxton Rap . .antway I digress as usual. . . what brand would you recommend ? mine has Celsius on it. . I think Dimplex would be a good brand..yes its all in the useage as to how effective they are economically, so I shall certainly look at them in Albury soon .. I have also checked on Noirot panel heaters and can get a 2400 watt one delivered to me , free castors, dleivery fee included , for $345 ..from this online place http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/noirot-m-118.html I dont know if they are dodgy or not but I am going to ask around , and am starting with you ...

  13. #13
    mia
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    Thanks also for this site to check on heaters. . I was going to get the Nobo from Harvey Norman and they charge like wounded bulls. . . $545 and castors $30 . . . some have them cheaper. . like the place I sent the address . . for the panel .. but I am going to check out the oil columns too .. I am hopeless with timers, I think that as soon as it rains its freezing so on go all the ehaters in the house and when its hot on go two air cons. . pro active I think they call it,. ., but I do like some ambience and the columns are bland. . but . . if as warm aand half the price, I can buy two .. and in this chilly neck of the woods two would be handy . . I do appreciate all the time and trouble you take to reply with so much info . . thank you

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    mia
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    Thank you Eastie, I checked out their website , and also this place where they sell on line.. and deliver to your door. . . http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/n...8.html....with castors $345 .. and delivery too . . you can see the 2400 watt one I am interested in .. not as flat and smart as the NObo but would work the same . .I have only heard of Atlantic heat panels as well as Nobo, I had two Atlantic panels six years ago, one fell over and broke, & then when I turned it on a fuse blew and all the lights etc .. went out ?? and I sold the other one, I paid $200 for each one, $199 to be exact, they were too small to be effective, I dont know how many watts & I wasnt impressed with them at all ., I think this deal with http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/noirot-m-118.html looks good as long as they are honest , I hate Ebay and I am a little hesitant with some unknown on line sites. . I wonder where I could check it out. . thank you for that info . .

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    mia
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    What a lot of info Master Splinter !! a wealth of information there, thank you. What does this mean ? not much difference between 2000 and 2400 ?

    "As a 2,400 watt heater has a higher total output than a 2,000 watt one, it will be able to get a room up to your comfortable temperature faster; once at that temperature, the thermostat will cycle it on and off to maintain it. (I have a suspicion that a larger model would be slightly more efficient as it would get up to temp / recover losses faster, but I think it would really be hair splitting)"

    I think I will go for 2400 , do they go any higher ? like 2500 or 3000 watts ? I am thinking that the heat panel might be safer as I have a pug and she likes to jam her little body up against something and the heat panel would not be as hot ? or is this incorrect ? I am leaning towards the heat panels as I know they cost 12 cents an hour to run .. so heat and economy . .I am a little hopeless in setting thermostats and making sure Im on the right settings etc. .. I like to turn something on and let it go ; . or rip .. . have a little gas heater in the kitchen, a aloma .? Italian, and I have that on too .. its very cosy and takes very little gas.. . I had a Rinnai Mark 11 gas heater, around $1000 and thats the thing which chewed up the gas.. but bottled gas goes in a flash and is so expensive. . if bought from Elgas.. never use Elgas they are ruthless. . charge 30 dollars a bottle more than other gas suppliers, charge for delivery and charge rental on their bottles.. I found a place in Myrtleford who are 60 kms away, who charge 88 dollars a bottle, no delivery fee and no rental .. . so much nicer
    Natural gas would not go through copious quantities of gas like bottled gas. . its shocking. Thank you again .. could you let me know what you think of this website ?

    http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/noirot-m-118.html


    I would really appreciate a second or third or fourth ? opinion .. I am not sure about websites and havent bought anything big on line. . only from places I know. . but I dont know this site at all. . . again .. . thank you all so much for all your help

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    mia
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    My typos are terrible. I think its a PALOMA. . . am too lazy to go and look,. its small but perfect in my little kitchen which is attached to the living room .. if you know the old and quaint SEC houses in my town yu will know the sort of little kitchen and living area . .living area not small but not big by a long shot. .

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    Default Atlantic heat panels

    I just discovered this one at the same place ,
    http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/a...er-p-1575.html

    its a 2800 watt heat panel. . $370 delivered and I think thats including feet .. I did say I had two Atlantic panels but they were small. I wish I knew how many watts. . just looked , I think the remaining one which blows up the power is 2000 watts, all the writing on the heater is in Russian, its going in the tip .. so if 2000 watts barely did anything to warm up the living room, I wonder what 2800 will do ? now I dont know which one will do ,, here are the rough ,very rough until I find a tape measure , measurements of the loungeroom /kitchen, , the kitchen is off the living room and is not as long but same width . .. 30 feet by 30 feet by 20 feet ? , very rough estimate as I was using my feet and my feet arent one foot long , so thats a bit dodgy .. but thats an approximate . So thats the web address again, if anyone can tell if if they are a trustworthy web site I might see what oil column heaters they have too .. 2000 watts is obviously not enough .,. and Atlantic, same brand. . they also have Nobo and they are so expensive for even less wattage than this one. . thank you in advance for letting me know if you know anything about this website and where its located. . http://purchasenet.com.au/shopping/a...er-p-1575.html

    I wouldnt be too happy to send $345- 370 and not receive a heater

    I have just discovered smilies

  18. #18
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    Some general technical info on heating (not related to any particular brand of heater).

    If your aim is to keep the air temperature inside above what it would otherwise be, then heat is pretty much heat regardless of the source. Electricity, oil, gas, wood, the sun shining through the windows - all will achieve the same result of warming the inside of the house.

    Only if you want the "sitting in front of the fire" effect of radiant heat does the source really become relevant. Some people just like that feeling whilst in other situations, for example heating a small part of a large warehouse or an outdoor dining area, radiant heat is the only practical option.

    I'll assume here that what you want is to warm the inside of the house. That is, you want the air at a comfortable temperature. In that case you want heat, but the source isn't really that important as long as there's enough of it and you can afford the cost.

    Fuel prices I'm using are for Tasmania since that's where I live and I have the data. You can adjust these figures using local fuel prices in your area to work out what is the cheapest option.

    Now, a word about efficiency. In this context it means how much heat you get out of the heater relative to how much fuel you put in.

    For example, a wood fire will lose some heat up the chimney so it must be less than 100% efficient. You have 100 units of heat in a load of wood, some goes up the chimney and something less than 100 units comes into the room. If you are losing 40% up the chimney and getting 60% into the room (typical for a slow combustion heater) then we'd say the heater is 60% efficient in its use of the fuel.

    Typical heater efficiencies:

    Reverse cycle air-conditioning - 300%
    Electric - almost 100%
    Gas - 80%
    Old 1970's oil-fired heaters (those that burn oil, not electric column heaters) - 75%
    Slow combustion wood - 60%
    Pot belly stoves and similar non-slow combustion wood heaters - 30%
    Open fire - 10% (90% of the heat goes up the chimney)

    Those figures are pretty widely accepted by energy utilities etc although some heater manufacturers will (sometimes legitimately) claim higher figures for individual heater models. The only one that isn't widely accepted is wood pellets - some manufacturers claim around 80% but the real world tests I've seen put it closer to 60%.

    Note that all these figures are for the fuel once it's already at your house. That is, turning the electricity, gas, wood etc into heat in your home. They ignore energy losses at power stations, gas works, fuel to run trucks transporting wood and so on. Those are very relevant if you're concerned about the environmental impact but aren't a financial issue as such since they're already factored into what you pay for the fuel.

    Units of measurement. Kilowatt hours (kWh) is how electricity is sold and we can convert other fuels to an equivalent of this quite easily to enable easy comparisson.

    Electricity - sold by the kWh
    Gas - usually sold by the MJ (megajoule). 3.6 MJ = 1 kWh
    Oil, kero, diesel etc - roughly 10 kWh per litre
    LPG - Just under 7 kWh per litre or 14 kWh per kilogram
    Wood (20% moisture) - 4.5 kWh per kilogram (4500 kWh per tonne, roughly 2250 kWh per metre) for typical firewood.
    Coal - varies but 6.7 to 7.8 kWh per kilogram for typical Australian black coal. The old brown coal briquettes were 6.22 kWh per kg.
    Pellets - Some argument here but I'd take 5 kWh per kg as about right.

    So, how do the costs compare in practice? (Using Tas prices here)

    Reverse cycle air-conditioner. 1 kWh @ 11 cents for the electricity. 300% efficiency = 3 kWh of heat into the room for each 1 kWh of electricity consumed which works out at 3.7 cents per kWh ($0.11 / 3).

    Electric. 1 kWh @ 11 cents for the electricity. 100% efficiency = 1 kWh of heat into the room so it's 11 cents per kWh ($0.11 / 1).

    Natural Gas. 1.82c / MJ x 3.6 = 6.552c per kWh. 80% efficiency = 0.8 kWh of heat into the room so it works out at 8.2 cents per kWh ($0.06552 / 0.8).

    Heating oil. 10 kWh (1 litre) at about $1.30. 75% efficiency = 7.5 kWh of heat into the room so it works out at 17.3 cents per kWh ($1.30 / 7.5).

    LPG. 625 kWh @ $114 for a 45kg cylinder. 80% efficiency = 500 kWh of heat into the room so it's 22.8 cents per kWh ($114 / 500).

    Wood. 4500 kWh (1 tonne) @ $100 (typical, prices vary). 60% efficiency = 2700 kWh of heat into the room so it's 3.7 cents per kWh ($100 / 2700).

    Pellets. 5000 kWh (1 tonne) @ $400 (approx, I haven't checked for a while). 60% efficiency = 3000 kWh of heat into the room so it's 13.3 cents per kWh ($400 / 3000).

    So, simplifying all that and putting them in order from cheapest to most expensive:

    Reverse cycle air-conditioner: 3.7 cents / kWh
    Wood (slow combustion heater): 3.7 cents / kWh
    Natural gas: 8.2 cents / kWh
    Electric: 11 cents / kWh (off-peak rate is 8.4 cents / kWh or 8.9 cents / kWh depending on hours of supply)
    Pellets: 13.3 cents / kWh
    Heating oil: 17.3 cents / kWh
    LPG: 22.8 cents / kWh

    Note that all these costs are for 1 kilowatt hour of heat put into the room.

    How much the actual cost is, and how warm the heater keeps you, will depend on its size and how much insulation you have etc. For example, you could have a 5kW electric heater and that will cost 5 times as much as a 1kW electric heater and produce 5 times as much heat. Same with gas and any other fuel.

    I've tried to keep all that understandable but I'm happy to answer questions if anything isn't clear to anyone. Don't forget to check your local fuel prices before buying a heater - the relative prices of electricity, gas, LPG and wood do vary quite a lot around the country and what is cheapest in one location may be relatively expensive in another state.

  19. #19
    1K Club Member Master Splinter's Avatar
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    2,400 watts is the maximum you can draw from a standard domestic power point - if you wanted to install a higher wattage heater you'd need a sparky to wire it in permanently.

    If your past experience with heaters showed that a 2,000 watt heater barely heated up the room...you might need to investigate your insulation options!

    You might have thought it was performing poorly as the panel heaters don't put out a lot of concentrated heat - you can't really 'feel' that they are on from a meter or so away, unlike a wood or gas fire which is sitting there blasting out radiant heat.

    Personally, I wouldn't buy something heavy like a heater online as the shipping costs may well inflate the cost to more than a bricks and mortar store - and I don't like to buy sight-unseen unless I'm sure of the brand (so I'd probably buy a Dimplex online,...but only if I had checked them out recently in stores to see if they were still building a quality unit or if they had done the magical transformation into being a brand name stickered onto a piece of craptacular chinese product.)

    As far as pet safety goes - all the cats I have known have always enjoyed wedging themselves between a Dimplex and the floor - they don't seem bothered by the temperature.

    It's a pity your air conditioners aren't reverse cycle; then you could heat with them!

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    mia
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    Thanks Splinter,. its a headache thats for sure. I just thought of another option as I have found a ags supplier who charges $88 a bottle as against Elgas who charge like wounded bulls @ $130 a bottle.. they also charge for delivery and rent . . ?? the other people dont. I had bought a Rinnai portable gas heater and as gas was exorbitant I sold it. . for less than half price , six months old too . . sigh .,. I have a little Paloma gas heater in the kitchen and its great .. the next suze up is a PG-651S (11Mj) ..I have a PG-451S (8Mj) in my tiny kitchen. . the loungeroom is twice as big as the kitchen , so the whole area is not huge, would that size , 651S be suitable for the loungeroom and I could then have both going ? I like seeing that radiant glow and its warming and anything warming is cosy and good for the soul. What do you think of Paloma portable with no flue, heaters ? and does anyone know how much bottled gas would be used if they were both going from morning to 9-10 ish ? pm? one gas bottle has 45kg. . I dont know what that means. . LP gas.. going on useage for 10 hours daily. . .I know this is hard to work out , sorry. I have now switched from electric heating to gas.. now that the gas is cheaper from a normal supplier as against Elgas..I also am not mad about oil filled fins and heat panels , , yes and no. . leaving only wood and gas.. as the wood heater is useless this leaves bottled gas.. I should never have sold the Rinnai Mark 11 but we wish a lot of things in hindsight. . does anyone know who sells Paloma portable gas heaters ? these models ? in Victoria ? or Albury ? once again I would be greateful for your help, so its heat panels/ oil columns/ and gas. . yes both my air cons are box refrigerator ones, both Panasonic and very good ,but no heating. Cheers & thanks again for all your help and assistance. . .

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    mia
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    Its a dog. . a pug. . a little fat pug , she hunches up against anything warm. . the cats have become outdoor cats and are verging on feral so the pug is number one dog cocky inside, the cats usually sleep on a blanket in my car so they are fine and know where its warm. . I leave the window down half way for them .. luckily I dont have chooks !!

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    mia
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    Wow Smurf, what a huge answer, with so much information, thank you so very very much, I greatly appreciate all the trouble you have gone to , its very kind and sweet of you. Its late now so I shall say goodnight and answer it tomorrow. . I have to absorb it all too thank you again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia View Post
    I am leaning towards the heat panels as I know they cost 12 cents an hour to run .. so heat and economy . .
    Hi Mia

    You have made the above statement a couple of times, but it is simply not true.

    A 2,000 watt heater uses 2,000 watts or 2 kilowatts per when that it is running. Electricity is sold by the kilowatt/hour, often called a unit, and at a likely charge rate of 15 cents per unit your 2,000 watt panel heater will actually cost around 30 cents an hour to run. (You can get your actual charge rate from your last electricity bill.)

    Manufacturers "create" low costs by assuming that the heater only cycles on for one hour in two or one hour in three. Legal, but dishonest unless they clearly state the measurement conditions.

    As regards the 2,800 watt unit, you are not allowed to plug in any electrical appliance greater than 2,400 watts. If you chose this, or a larger model, then you will have to employ an electrician to hard-wire the heater; another $200 or so.

    The table at the bottom of Smurfs posting is very informative and correct. It is based on Hobart prices but it will not be grossly inaccurate in other areas. (Firewood is about $100 per ton, peak time heating electricity is 11.05 cents per unit, gas is dearer than the mainland and LPG is exorbitant.)

    Cheers

    Graeme

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia View Post
    and does anyone know how much bottled gas would be used if they were both going from morning to 9-10 ish ? pm? one gas bottle has 45kg. . I dont know what that means. . LP gas.. going on useage for 10 hours daily. . .
    The 8MJ LPG heater will run for about 281 hours on one 45kg cylinder. So that's 4 weeks if you're running it for 10 hours each day.

    The 11MJ heater will run for 204 hours on the 45kg cylinder. That's just under 3 weeks if it's on for 10 hours each day.

    If you're running both of them for 10 hours each day then you'll use a cylinder every 12 days.

    LPG at $88 per cylinder works out at 14 cents per kWh. With no flue, the heater is essentially 100% efficient but with these heaters you generally do need some extra ventilation. See my previous post to compare with flued heaters, electric, wood etc.

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    Thanks Eastie (and everyone ) I have decided to buy the new Nobo, E series, its warm and economical and from all reports, its a lot cheaper to run than an oil filled column. I am also buying a small Paloma portable gas heater, I have one in the kitchen, a 451 and highly recommend this brand. . the heater uses minimal gas and is cosy and warms the kitchen in the dead of winter and is the smallest model they make I think.. Thank you all for your advice and help, the Nobo is an excellent unit, Im not buying it for the aesthetics, but the perfomance and also the power useage. Thank you again and for an informative site.

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    Wow thank you Smurf for that reply. . I missed it just then.Thats excellent, I had no idea how long an LPG gas bottl would last with a Paloma heater and now I know. I will be using it for the 8MJ or 11MJ thats really good to know , and is really appreciated. The Nobo is my choice and also another Paloma heater. . I will arm myself with your info when I go to Albury to choose the one I want. Cheers & thank you very much

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia View Post
    Thanks Eastie (and everyone ) I have decided to buy the new Nobo, E series, its warm and economical and from all reports, its a lot cheaper to run than an oil filled column. Maybe, maybe not, as has been pointed out in other posts - no difference IMO and experience . . . Thank you all for your advice and help, the Nobo is an excellent unit, Im not buying it for the aesthetics, but the perfomance and also the power useage. That might well be why you think you are buying it, but again as the other posts pointed out there is no special attribute that it has to make it better on either of those factors (which for whatever heater you use are governed by power output and your use of timer and/or thermostat - and the thermal conditions of the room(s) being heated). Thank you again and for an informative site.
    You can't change physics and the laws of thermodynamics however good is the sales pitch. But your choice of course and I hope you are happy with it! Glad the forum's been useful - most of us find that!

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    If you've already had an unsatisfactory experience with a 2,000 watt panel heater, you won't get anything different from a Nobo E series, as their maximum is...2,000 watts.

    2,000 watts of heat is 2,000 watts of heat, no matter what brand you create it with.

    After that, it really does boil down to just aesthetics.

    If you measure the running costs of other electric heaters in the same way as Nobo (only on half the time), they too will show exactly the same running costs; there is no magic difference in the way they create heat.

    Mind you, you may mask the (lack of) effect with the addition of that gas heater as a source of radiant heat.

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    Hi

    We have recently fitted the 1500w nobo panel heater in our hallway which feeds three bedrooms. We set it at 16deg overnight and it works very well. Takes the chill off the bedrooms and isnt using heaps of power as we use the pay as you go system.

    Would recommend them.
    I just love sheepies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazzler View Post
    Hi

    We have recently fitted the 1500w nobo panel heater in our hallway which feeds three bedrooms. We set it at 16deg overnight and it works very well. Takes the chill off the bedrooms and isnt using heaps of power as we use the pay as you go system.
    One thing that's helping here with the PAYG system is that power is a lot cheaper at night. So you're using it when it's cheapest with the heater going overnight.

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    Some good posts from Bloss and Master Splinter, and some great technical information, and cost comparisons from Smurf there. I never realised that RC air con was so cheap at heating. I might can the idea of putting mains gas on here and get an air con instead. It would be nice to cool the place as well on some hot summer days.
    Do you know how the price of mains gas in Sydney compares with air con?

    Apart from aesthetics, I don't know why you'd pay extra for a panel heater over an oil filled heater. As well as a 2400 watt oil heater for the loungeroom, I've just bought a little 700 watt oil heater from Woolies (for only $30), and it's great in my bedroom. I put it under my legs when I'm sitting at my PC. If I throw a blanket over myself, the chair, and the heater under my legs it's like I'm sitting in a sauna. I can turn the thermostat down and use very little power whilst staying as cosy as I like.
    Cheers, John

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