Hire the best Gas Fitter

electric water heater and heat pump

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    dabbler Billym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    far south coast nsw
    Age
    81
    Posts
    18

    Default electric water heater and heat pump

    got a brochure from a major plumbing centre, goes on about a heat pump attached to your hot water tank, cuts energy use by 65% no solar panels etc. Has anyone had experience with a heat pump???thanks

  2. #2
    Doin' my best
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Age
    51
    Posts
    57

    Smile Heat Pump

    The one i have installed is a rheem model that has a storage tank connected to a compressor that converts ambient air temperature to heat your tank. the only downside i have seen so far is that you cannot run them on off peak as the compressor needs 24/7 power, aside from that we have had no complaints on the energy transfer side. more info available from www.rheem.com.au

    hope it helps

  3. #3
    1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,664

    Default

    The notion that a heat pump will reduce electricity use for hot water or room heating by about two thirds is very well proven and accepted as correct. That applies to hot water as well as heating the house with a reverse cycle air-conditioner. The technology is very proven - it's how a fridge or air-conditioner works.

    There are quite a few on the market now for household hot water. Quantum, Siddons, Rheem, Dux and many others make them. I'd compare the various models before buying one as you would with any significant purchase.

    Main comment I'd make is that if you don't actually need a booster element, and you won't if the temperature doesn't drop much below zero, then get one without such an element otherwise you may have issues with it operating unnecessarily. No booster is needed in Hobart or anywhere warmer but it would be handy to have one if you're in the mountains, Canberra etc where it does get really cold.

    In most cases a heat pump will be able to run on the cheap off-peak tariff and you'll end up with very low hot water bills due to the low consumption of the heat pump. You could alternatively run it on standard electricity tariffs, but that costs quite a bit more.

    A heat pump should certainly be cheaper than gas or an ordinary electric water heater. How it compares with solar is very case specific since the performance of solar depends a lot on location, collector orientation, water usage patterns and so on. Sometimes solar will save 80% or more, other times it will save less than 50%. But a heat pump will just sit there saving 65 - 75% regardless of the weather.

    If you're in Tas then a heat pump should work better (and use less power) than solar. But in the NT you could get nearly all your hot water from solar so that would be a better option there. In Sydney there shouldn't be much difference between the two in a typical situation (though it will vary house to house).

  4. #4
    who
    who is offline
    Apprentice (new member)
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Taswegia
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I see very few downsides to a Heat Pump HWS, apart from the pricetag to buy.

    I am in NW Tassie, so frequently 2 degreesish in temps overnight where I am, maybe 14 or 15 in the day.

    I put in a Quantum almost a year ago, and it has been great so far..... no booster element, not needed thus far either as have always had hot water.

    Is connected to a 24/7 power tarriff - Hydroheat - and power bill is less than prior when we had a 120L storage heater on offpeak, then Hydroheat after the aircon went in.

  5. #5
    1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,664

    Default

    Glad to hear it's working fine in NW Tas. I wouldn't expect problems anywhere in Tas really apart from maybe the Central Highlands where it goes down way below zero.

  6. #6
    Apprentice (new member)
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Newcastle NSW
    Posts
    2

    Default Recommended Heatpump

    Just had a Stiebel Eltron Heatpump installed (made in Germany). Researched by calling a senior installer who slammed some of the new kids on the block as far as heatpumps go. He said Stiebel Eltron have been in the heatpump business for 30 years and he never had trouble with them. He has been pulling out name brand heatpumps and said they are going to scrap because he wouldn't give them to a charity they are so poorly made.

    Things to consider - Noise - My heatpump is located in a garage (Stiebel are the only ones that can go inside) which is under a spare room. In the other bedrooms it is quiet but if you were in the spare bedroom the sound is like an air conditioner which for some may help you sleep but for others not so. If you have it installed outside (most people do) they can upset the neighbour if it is located close to their house. In my location the night time tariff kicks in at 11pm and this is when the heatpump will do most of its running (at night). This could annoy your neighbours. So locate it away from neighbours.

    Tariff - I am leaving mine on the night tariff as it is 300litres and I don't have any teenagers yet. Some manufacturers recommend the extended tariff that runs during the daytime as well but I think that is because their models are inefficient and need extra time to heat. You should only need whatever tariff you have now if it is a good heatpump. Yes they will run more efficiently during the day but who wants to pay 30-50% more for the day time tariff (not me). Electricity Companies are seeing a huge swing at the moment of people changing from night tariff to day tariff due to heatpump installations. The companies have backlogs of jobs to be completed.

    Current temp in Newcastle overnight is about 15degrees and the heatpump has no problems getting the water to 60degrees. I would say we are only using half of the tank per day and so the heat pump only runs for a couple of hours a night to reheat.

    So my recommendation would be the Stiebel Eltron WWK300A with Fed and State rebates (when I get them) it will cost me $300. Full cost without rebates $2700. Generates 30 RECS so NSW Govt rebates you $800 and Fed Govt Rebate now $1600.

  7. #7
    Apprentice (new member)
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Newcastle NSW
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Edit - After 3 days with the heat pump in my garage I am seriously thinking about stopping it from running at night due to noise. The garage seems to amplify the sound so we are getting a droning sound audible in all bedrooms (the kids don't hear it at all though) Maybe it is something I will get used to. I am going to investigate if running it during the day when the air temps are higher but the tariff is dearer will cost me much more than at night. I will then have to add a timer in my switchboard to restrict the times it can run and change tariffs with my elect supplier. It ran for 4 hours last night 11pm-3am. The Mrs is not impressed.

  8. #8
    1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,664

    Default

    There would be some regional differences with the noise issue.

    In Tas it's pretty common to have heat pumps running all night for heating the house so it's a "normal" sound in urban areas that nobody is likely to notice much.Tassie is pretty quiet generally, we don't have much traffic etc, but heat pumps are a common sound in the suburbs. So nobody's likely to get too upset about a heat pump water heater when there's already plenty of other heat pumps around.

    But go to a place where such things are not common and it might be a different situation. Even in the larger cities with traffic noise etc, the heat pump might stand out late at night and upset neighbours etc. Just something to bear in mind.

  9. #9
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Mine's going in tomorrow, as per this thread;
    Free Solar Hot Water Systems
    I think it's a Dux. My plumber is arranging it all, and it should cost me nothing, including installation.
    Dux is a pretty well known brand, so it should be pretty reliable hopefully. I just hope it's not too noisy. I think he said that it makes 50dB.
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    151

    Default

    I'm in Sydney and I just put in a Rinnai Sunmaster 315L solar hot water split system 2 months ago - just got my rebates back . I decided not to go with the heatpump because of the noise for the neighbours.

    The system appears to be excellent, plenty of hot water, and because of the switch from a ceiling gravity system to an outside mains pressure system we now have real showers - with pressure and everything!

    BUT having checked my bill 2 months down the track it appears the system has not saved me any energy It appears that the system is running as a conventional off-peak electric system and not really taking any solar into account. I'm not sure why, maybe just the time we have showers? I think the installation is faulty in some way and have got the plumber coming back next week to take a look. I'm logging the power at the moment and hopefully we'll have a sunny day or two soon so I can see if my power is less on those days??

    Thing is, because its off peak its still so cheap that even without the energy saving my pocket is not really hurting at only about $12 a month in hot water and I still have scope to reduce this to say $5 once its fixed up. A heat pump on peak rates will cost $12 a month set up perfectly.

  11. #11
    3K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    3,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdninedegree View Post
    Edit - After 3 days with the heat pump in my garage I am seriously thinking about stopping it from running at night due to noise.
    Did you require the unit be installed inside the garage, or did he suggest it?

    Inside a closed air space is really not the best idea for any heatpump. I'm a bit surprised that your installer canned the opposition brands and then made such an error. A garage is full of hard opposing surfaces so will often amplify sounds made within them. Best bet is to select a better location and having him move the unit there.

    Switching it to day tarrif won't effect efficiency much, but it will waste money...

    woodbe

  12. #12
    1K Club Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattwilliams78 View Post
    BUT having checked my bill 2 months down the track it appears the system has not saved me any energy It appears that the system is running as a conventional off-peak electric system and not really taking any solar into account. I'm not sure why, maybe just the time we have showers? I think the installation is faulty in some way and have got the plumber coming back next week to take a look. I'm logging the power at the moment and hopefully we'll have a sunny day or two soon so I can see if my power is less on those days??
    Are you using more hot water now?

    You could be using more because of mains pressure instead of low pressure. Also with the "feel good" factor of solar it might be encouraging you to have longer showers etc.

    But $12 a month? Either your off-peak is a lot cheaper than it is here or you aren't using too much of it. I'd be spending about $30 a month and that's for one person.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    151

    Default

    I'm pretty sure my hot water use has gone up. My cold water bill went up by about 30% I think (but our washing machine is on the blink so I had put some of it down to that) so maybe I need to look at replacing the showerhead before my wife gets too used to it

    My hot water is on a separate off-peak meter. Over 90 days I used about 600kWh at only 5c a kWh so about $30. Interestingly though, my remaining power is about 700kWh so hot water is about 50% of our energy use but only about 20% of the cost. We don't have AC, its just the two of us and we're both out at work all day and are pretty energy efficient.

    There's still some opportunities though I reckon - putting in some insulation soon and could definately isolate some standby power (TV on standby, PVR etc.) Might even invest in some solar electric power! My company are offering free panel installs at the moment and subsidised ones when the rebate system changes next month. www.solaroffer.com.au

  14. #14
    Golden Member GraemeCook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    832

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdninedegree View Post
    Edit - After 3 days with the heat pump in my garage I am seriously thinking about stopping it from running at night due to noise. The garage seems to amplify the sound so we are getting a droning sound audible in all bedrooms (the kids don't hear it at all though) Maybe it is something I will get used to. I am going to investigate if running it during the day when the air temps are higher but the tariff is dearer will cost me much more than at night. I will then have to add a timer in my switchboard to restrict the times it can run and change tariffs with my elect supplier. It ran for 4 hours last night 11pm-3am. The Mrs is not impressed.
    If a motor is in direct contact with a hard surface then it may impart vibration into that hard surface and all connecting hard surfaces will resonate that vibration as noise. It will be surprisingly loud and at low frequency that will travel large distances and penetrate through walls, etc. The solution may be to insulate the heat pump from the concrete floor. Perhaps a thick industrial rubber pad will do?

    This is not off the wall, but some years ago I replaced the solid engine mounts on the diesel engine in my boat - it halved the noise of the engine. Apparently the boat was acting as a resonator.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  15. #15
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    I got mine today.
    It was pouring down with rain, so he'll be back tomorrow to hook it up, but I've filled out the rebate forms, and I'll have to investigate the RECs to get the best deal.

    Does anyone here know who pays the most for RECs? My plumber recommended Greenbank. Does anyone have any recommendations?
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    151

    Default

    I got $45 each for mine through Rinnai but I also got quoted $46 from Megasun in WA. Took nearly 2 months to get my money back from Rinnai - they told me 10 working days!

    Megasun Renew Energy [admin@renewenergy.com.au]

  17. #17
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Megasun just quoted me $46.50.
    My plumber put me on to Greenbank, and they're paying $47.
    X 30 = $1,410
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  18. #18
    Golden Member GraemeCook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    832

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pawnhead View Post
    I got mine today.
    It was pouring down with rain, so he'll be back tomorrow to hook it up, but I've filled out the rebate forms, and I'll have to investigate the RECs to get the best deal.

    Does anyone here know who pays the most for RECs? My plumber recommended Greenbank. Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Green Energy Markets are quoting $50.40 for REC's.
    www.greenmarkets.com.au
    Its an opaque market - you really have to shop around.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  19. #19
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Green Energy Markets are quoting $50.40 for REC's.
    www.greenmarkets.com.au
    Its an opaque market - you really have to shop around.

    Cheers

    Graeme
    That's the market and you have to be a licensed trader. I think the license fee is only $20, but it's hardly worth all the paperwork for only 30 RECs. Greenbank sounds a lot simpler even though I may drop $80 or so.

    I got the heater hooked up yesterday and it's not that loud at all. My son's bedroom window is only about three metres away from it, and he tells me that he hasn't heard any noise at all.
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  20. #20
    Apprentice (new member)
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pawnhead View Post
    That's the market and you have to be a licensed trader. I think the license fee is only $20, but it's hardly worth all the paperwork for only 30 RECs. Greenbank sounds a lot simpler even though I may drop $80 or so.

    I got the heater hooked up yesterday and it's not that loud at all. My son's bedroom window is only about three metres away from it, and he tells me that he hasn't heard any noise at all.

    Hi John,

    May I know your Plumber contact details, such that I can get one instatlled.

    Thanks

  21. #21
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jpramkish View Post
    Hi John,

    May I know your Plumber contact details, such that I can get one instatlled.

    Thanks
    Hi pramkish
    It's Fordred plumbing listed in the White pages;
    Fordred Tony Plumbing Service

    0411 641 059
    Mobile Service
    101 Powder Works Rd
    North Narrabeen NSW 2101

    He won't go far from the Northern beaches though.
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


Similar Threads

  1. Heat Pump Hot water Help
    By m6sports in forum Plumbing
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 8th Jul 2009, 02:04 PM
  2. Solar Hot Water vs Heat Pump
    By mattwilliams78 in forum Plumbing
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 14th Feb 2009, 09:38 PM
  3. Heat Pump Hot water
    By Smurf in forum Plumbing
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 28th Jun 2008, 09:26 AM
  4. Supporting electric water heater
    By stuey in forum Plumbing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13th Jan 2008, 10:54 PM
  5. Electric water heater
    By lnt9000 in forum Heating & Cooling
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 27th Feb 2006, 10:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •