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Float and valve in cistern too slow

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  1. #1
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    Default Float and valve in cistern too slow

    G'day,

    Bit of a long story so bear with me. We've got a rainwater tank which supplies our toilets through an on demand pump. The problem is when you flush the toilet and the cistern refills, as the float rises higher the valve in the cistern slows the water flow down to a trickle, getting slower and slower as it approaches full. I would guess it takes 20 mins to fill the cistern with the last 19 mins being an absolutely miniscule trickle. This would be absolutely fine if the toilet were connected to the mains, but in our case this just causes the pump to cycle on and off for 20 seconds every 2 mins until the cistern is full.

    Was thinking of buying a better float and valve for the cistern and was wondering if you think this will fix the problem, or if there was another way.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Chief Muck-a-Rounder
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    Hi,

    I had the same problem, I done as you suggested, problem solved.
    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    mabe you could mention the problem to your plumbing supplier I'm sure they will recomend the best cistern for the job.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ian007's Avatar
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    there are fast fill cistern valves on the market fluidmaster is the brand I think bunnies should have them or reece for sure

    They fill with the water fully open and then shut off from open to closed in one go.

    They should fix your problem.

    Cheers Ian
    Some People are like slinky's,
    They serve no purpose at all,
    but they put a smile on your face when you throw them down the stairs.

  5. #5
    Wood Wrecker outback's Avatar
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    I was gonna tell ya to get another valve, but they beat me to it, so I won't.
    Boring signature time again!

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the replies everyone. Off to Bunnings ASAP.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jacksin's Avatar
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    Errr now the horse has bolted, I personally dont like the Fluidmaster valve and wont use them because Ive had trouble with ones that others have installed. I use Caroma Quietflow valves, a little dearer but far better and easier to adjust.
    Jack

  8. #8
    Apprentice (new member) forge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacksin
    Errr now the horse has bolted, I personally dont like the Fluidmaster valve and wont use them because Ive had trouble with ones that others have installed. I use Caroma Quietflow valves, a little dearer but far better and easier to adjust.
    Just an enquiry ,please.We have a header tank for our house watersupply.I have been manualy swiching on a h.h.pressure pump every few day's.I'm getting prety sick of doing this .Do you think one of these walves would work?ie-turn the water off ,create back pressure in the h.h.p. pump,turn it off,then keep refilling the tank with the h.h.p.pump as we use the water?Advice appreciated .
    Regards ,Bela
    forge

  9. #9
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    I have the same problem , my three toilets are connect to underground rain water tank ( under the backyard grass ), the fine dirt get through to Fluidmaster inlet valve and cause fluidmaster will never stop / shut off , keep filling until the rain water tank run dry. I open the fluidmaster washer found fine dirts around the washer, wipe clean all good for one to two months , problem comes back. I replaced with Caroma Quick Fill, it still same problem because the washer are similar to Fluidmaster. I cannot find any other brand "fast fill valve" that shut off completely like USA version called Nuflush "( NuFlush.com )" it is not suitable for Australia ? Any suggestion ?

  10. #10
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    kevvy,

    There is no other way to put this...if you have dirt clogging the cistern valve, then your rain harvesting system has not been properly installed! Most installations are sub standard (my estimation is over 90%) and it is critical that an underground tank receives clean debris free water as they are, apart from other considerations, much less accessible for cleaning. Given the expense of underground tanks, you deserve and should expect to have a quality system.

    A couple of questions:
    Was the tank 'professionally' installed?
    What pre tank filtering does the tank have?

    I can suggest a few pre tank filtering systems that I strongly recommend for your situation if you are interested.

    A lot of underground submersible tank pumps draw water through a hose with an attached float fitted to the open end. This draws the better water from just under the surface but if the harvesting system is not properly set up and the hose's intake is too close to the water surface, the pump can effectively syphon the floating debris off the surface. The hose inlet should be no less than 4 cm under the surface as a bare minimum. You should check this first and adjust if necessary but given that surface debris is organic and small and that the cause of your problem is possibly trapped grit, the solution probably lies elsewhere unless grit has been ingested from the tank's inflow during a rain event. Nevertheless, it is still possible for organic particles to settle in a low pressure region under the seal and then reconstitute with other trapped organic particles into a larger mass.

    The Fluidmaster valve is a very good valve for use with rainwater systems. Firstly, it is compact which allows for two valves to be fitted to the cistern; the first valve fitted to mains water and the second for pump fed rainwater. Secondly, it is available with three pressure seals, the standard fitted seal for mains pressure, a second optional low pressure seal for use with pumps and a third (red) very low pressure gravity seal (242LP071) for use with header tanks. This works even better once the Fluidmaster's 'pigs tail' flow restrictor is removed. It is not the valves fault that it is been fed with dirty water.

    Re Flyboy's now very old opening post, his problem is easily fixed by fitting two Fluidmaster valves as mentioned above and fitting the optional red seal to the valve fed from the pump to reduce resistance. The additional fitting of a large (+100 litres) stand alone pressure tank fed by the pump is the recommended best option to eliminate pump cycling. In the O.P.'s case and depending on the cistern size, this could reduce his pump start ups by possibly 98%, substantially reduce the pump's running costs and significantly prolong the pump's life.

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