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Moving gas outlet for stove

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  1. #1
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    Default Moving gas outlet for stove

    We had a kitchen renovation done 2 years ago and the position of the gas outlet really bothers me because the valve and regulator stick out into the cupboard and get in the way of a rotating pantry shelf.

    So I want to move it so it is behind the stove, at floor level. Some background - I have plumbed a whole laundry myself before, soldering copper pipes for water, but never done anything with gas. So I'm a bit scared of gas due to the danger of leakage.

    I was planning on relocating this valve and regulator by screwing a 90 deg compression fitting onto the existing threaded fitting coming out of the wall, then using copper pipe and compression unions to move it about 40cm to the right.

    My question is, are compression fittings OK to use for gas? Or should I solder a threaded fitting to either end of a copper pipe and screw that on to the existing fitting (with gas tape of course). I'm worries about the compression fittings leaking, so I suppose I've just answered my own question.

    Any caveats regarding the regulator? I was going to make sure it is still oriented horizontal, and have it about 5cm off the floor directly behind the stove.

    Thanks,
    Ben
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gas-reg.jpg  

  2. #2
    Senior Member Neptune's Avatar
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    Hello, was that installation done by a licensed plumber and did you get a compliance certificate for the work?

    The plumbers on here say an ezyhooker can't be used in a wall.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    Hello, was that installation done by a licensed plumber and did you get a compliance certificate for the work?

    The plumbers on here say an ezyhooker can't be used in a wall.
    Well it was the kitchen company's plumber, so I'm hoping he was licensed... What is an ezyhooker?

    Ben

  4. #4
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    Just looked up what an ezyhooker is. OK, when I move it I will use a proper gas hose, like this one: 8457 Ezy Fit Gas Connector 900mm M&F Per 10

  5. #5
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdearnley View Post
    What is an ezyhooker?
    G'day Ben, welcome aboard.

    The ezy hooker is the braided flexi hose, https://www.masters.com.au/product/9...er-1-2-fl-cone
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  6. #6
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdearnley View Post
    We had a kitchen renovation done 2 years ago and the position of the gas outlet really bothers me because the valve and regulator stick out into the cupboard and get in the way of a rotating pantry shelf.

    So I want to move it so it is behind the stove, at floor level. Some background - I have plumbed a whole laundry myself before, soldering copper pipes for water, but never done anything with gas. So I'm a bit scared of gas due to the danger of leakage.

    I was planning on relocating this valve and regulator by screwing a 90 deg compression fitting onto the existing threaded fitting coming out of the wall, then using copper pipe and compression unions to move it about 40cm to the right.

    My question is, are compression fittings OK to use for gas? Or should I solder a threaded fitting to either end of a copper pipe and screw that on to the existing fitting (with gas tape of course). I'm worries about the compression fittings leaking, so I suppose I've just answered my own question.

    Any caveats regarding the regulator? I was going to make sure it is still oriented horizontal, and have it about 5cm off the floor directly behind the stove.

    Thanks,
    Ben
    I'm wondering what stops vermin entering your kitchen via the cavity in the masonry wall.
    regards inter

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    I'm wondering what stops vermin entering your kitchen via the cavity in the masonry wall.
    regards inter
    Well that's part of the reason we want to move this thing, so I can board up this hole.

  9. #9
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    what a job!
    I'd recommend you call your plumber to move it for you.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderplumb View Post
    what a job!
    I'd recommend you call your plumber to move it for you.
    Not sure just what you mean WP.

    I would be calling the original Plumber back to do a proper job meaning bring both the supply line and the service line into the cupboard in copper , vermin proof the cabinet, then refit the valves inside the cupboard.

  11. #11
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    "what a job!" .... I was being facetious.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderplumb View Post
    "what a job!" .... I was being facetious.
    Thought so.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclic View Post
    Not sure just what you mean WP.

    I would be calling the original Plumber back to do a proper job meaning bring both the supply line and the service line into the cupboard in copper , vermin proof the cabinet, then refit the valves inside the cupboard.
    I doubt that the original plumber will come back after 2 years. But there is no harm in trying.

    In direct answer to the OP's question. I can quote directly from the Plumbers Handbook, page 61.

    Permissible joints are: flared copper alloy compression, capillary, expanded sockets and formed branches [in hard tube only]. Soft soldered joints and olive type fittings are not permitted.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by justonething View Post
    I doubt that the original plumber will come back after 2 years. But there is no harm in trying.

    In direct answer to the OP's question. I can quote directly from the Plumbers Handbook, page 61.

    Permissible joints are: flared copper alloy compression, capillary, expanded sockets and formed branches [in hard tube only]. Soft soldered joints and olive type fittings are not permitted.
    Thanks 'justonething', that is the definitive answer I wanted. I'm not going to call back the original plumber because I should have complained then and had it fixed. Besides, he would probably screw it up a second time. I'll do it myself and post photos to get the approval of the committee

    Ben

  15. #15
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdearnley View Post
    Thanks 'justonething', that is the definitive answer I wanted. I'm not going to call back the original plumber because I should have complained then and had it fixed. Besides, he would probably screw it up a second time. I'll do it myself and post photos to get the approval of the committee

    Ben
    Trust your awareness of gas buildup in confined spaces and the danger this presents. At least check all connections with soapy water and how clean the hob burner flame is.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Trust your awareness of gas buildup in confined spaces and the danger this presents. At least check all connections with soapy water and how clean the hob burner flame is.
    Yes, I'm suitably scared of that situation... I will be using the soapy water method to check for leaks, don't worry.

    Ben

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by justonething View Post
    I doubt that the original plumber will come back after 2 years. But there is no harm in trying.

    In direct answer to the OP's question. I can quote directly from the Plumbers Handbook, page 61.

    Permissible joints are: flared copper alloy compression, capillary, expanded sockets and formed branches [in hard tube only]. Soft soldered joints and olive type fittings are not permitted.
    Hmmm, What about the bit that states you need to be a Licensed Gasfitter.

    Does it not matter that unlicensed people who have no idea about Gas Installations and have to ask questions on this forum, could cause the home, along with it's occupants, to go BOOM>

    While it may sound funny, there is nothing funny about Gas explosions causing injury or Death..

  18. #18
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    Default I'm with Cyclic

    I'll tackle most everything but power and gas...two things with the biggest potential for disaster...
    Pay the man, and get the ticket lodged for piece of mind.
    Lets say you sell and there's a bang; you're history then...it's not worth the $ saving..

  19. #19
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    Time for a reality check.
    You have plumbed a whole laundry. Hardly makes you an expert.
    Now you want to alter gas pipes cause you're booming with confidence.
    Am I sounding a little harsh.
    Advice has been given to employ a Qualified Gasfitter.
    Ask yourself how much are you willing to Risk to save a few dollars.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclic View Post
    Hmmm, What about the bit that states you need to be a Licensed Gasfitter.

    Does it not matter that unlicensed people who have no idea about Gas Installations and have to ask questions on this forum, could cause the home, along with it's occupants, to go BOOM>

    While it may sound funny, there is nothing funny about Gas explosions causing injury or Death..
    I thought everybody had made it abundantly clear before and after me who is and who isn't allowed by law. and I also thought that his question deserves a straight forward answer.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by justonething View Post
    I thought everybody had made it abundantly clear before and after me who is and who isn't allowed by law.
    No, I don't believe so,Plumbers have been mentioned in replies but I am the only one to mention Licensed Gasfitter.

    Not all Plumbers are licensed for Gas and if the Plumber who did the OP's install is licensed, he needs to be bought to task and if necessary, his licence revoked.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for all the comments, I will call a gas fitter after being educated here. It's just a shame that 3 of the 4 plumbers I have had around here over the years are rough and do shoddy work, giving the profession a bad name in my eyes. That's the primary reason I thought I'd tackle it myself, because I thought I could do a neater job. Anyway, now I've given the profession a spray I'll go and get some quotes...

  23. #23
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    Could I DIY gas work? Probably yes.

    Would I attempt to DIY gas work? In short, no. It's not about the probability of getting it wrong, it's about the consequences if something bad does happen.

    As for who to get, I've only had gas fitting work done twice and both jobs went smoothly. One was done by the gas company back when they did gas fitting work as well as actually supplying gas. The other was done by a private gas fitter who only does gas (they don't do water plumbing). No hassles with either. Gas company did it for a standard fixed charge, private gas fitter charged for time + materials. Both turned up on time from memory and the job took roughly the time they said it would. All good.

  24. #24
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    Good to hear bdearnley. Keeping in mind that any alterations to a gas installation require the whole installation to be tested after the work's finished. The licenced gasfitter is obligated by the conditions of his licence to do so.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

  25. #25
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    Not to mention you'll need either an oxy set, or a flaring tool or both.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

  26. #26
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    Default I had one in to do my LPG connect...

    As I don't do gas...
    and he cut 2" holes in my cupboard walls for the 1/2" pipe. There were no shelves in or top on the cupboards. Not quite sure why so big therefore...
    The run was only about 3m, but he did have some issues with a very, very small leak he could not find, so took him around 4 hours to do.
    He had a gizmo to pressurise the line from the bottle connection, with a gauge that showed the tiny leak. This was after he did the soapy water thing and the leak was so small it did not show.
    I understood that he was required to do that test by law.
    I did have a quote and that's what I paid. $397.00, as he had to replace the old regulators as well, was well worth it

  27. #27
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    I'm no great expert on gas but I do know how it works. My main concern is the regulator as they are just a diaphragm, valve seat and adjusting mechanism including a spring. On the gas side below the diaphragm they are well sealed however above the diaphragm not so as the ones I have are not gas tight and diaphragm's fail and gas pressure can leak to the top side of the case and be leaked to the atmosphere.

    The place for a pressure regulator is outside the house where leaks can dissipate.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I'm no great expert on gas but I do know how it works. My main concern is the regulator as they are just a diaphragm, valve seat and adjusting mechanism including a spring. On the gas side below the diaphragm they are well sealed however above the diaphragm not so as the ones I have are not gas tight and diaphragm's fail and gas pressure can leak to the top side of the case and be leaked to the atmosphere.

    The place for a pressure regulator is outside the house where leaks can dissipate.
    What about the regulator for a gas cook-top, these are inside the cupboard. Are they any different!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    What about the regulator for a gas cook-top, these are inside the cupboard. Are they any different!
    I have no idea my regulator is outside on the wall and low pressure is piped to the cooktop. Maybe the regulator shown is sealed top and bottom but regulators I have seen have by their design have low pressure on the top usually atmospheric pressure

  30. #30
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    The place for a natural gas appliance regulator is as close as practical to the appliance.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderplumb View Post
    The place for a natural gas appliance regulator is as close as practical to the appliance.
    I see natural gas with low pressure to start with different to LPG which I have and less dangerous.

  32. #32
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    Default Testing of a gas line

    While you are getting a quote from a gas fitter, it will be a good idea to know what the standard says about what the standard of the works should be. For example, in testing in accordance with AS 5601. Pressure testing should be included as part of the acceptance procedures and for altered systems with appliances connected, it should be pressurized to the operating pressure and there should be no loss of pressure during an isolation period of 5 min after stabilisation plus an additional 5 min for every 30 litres of pipe volume. Soap bubble tests can also be performed, but it should not be in place pressure testing.

  33. #33
    GeoffW1
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    LOL, you've convinced me never to connect to gas. I could probably run the stove by myself anyway

  34. #34
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    Gas is one of those things that actually causes very few accidents in practice, largely because it is common knowledge that it is potentially hazardous and as such most people don't mess about with it.

    Much the same with things like snakes - everyone knows the danger, so most people keep well away from them and as such very few people actually die due to snake bites.

    Gas is, in practice, quite safe if everything is done properly.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    I see natural gas with low pressure to start with different to LPG which I have and less dangerous.
    Therefore the regulator is on the bottles outside and not needed for a cooktop that's set up to run on LPG.
    The pressure from the LPG reg in most cases is 2.75kPa, the same with most new NG domestic installations.
    Plumbers were around long before Jesus was a carpenter

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