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  1. #1
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    Default Bathroom lighting

    Hi guys. I've been posting about bathroom lighting in the lighting section but not getting much technical feedback there so I figured I'd post it here.

    Below is part copy of the original post and part additional new post.

    I am choosing main lighting for the bathroom. In ceiling, so not near any water. It's a raked ceiling and skillion roof.

    The ceiling joists are below the rafters so there is 10mm plasterboard + 90mm joists +90mm rafters + 35-45mm roof battens.

    Sisalation is under the batten so 180-190mm to sisalation. I can cut a hole in that but it's best not to.

    Haven't put in insulation yet but was going to put it between ceiling joists.

    I'm finding a lot of bathroom lighting to be pretty fugly.

    I'm thinking about a downlight,

    This one seems suitable for bathroom and looks to have transformer in ceiling.

    Prolux Combo Double Square Gimble Recessed Downlight | Wayfair Australia


    Can it run off existing wiring for light or does the wiring need to be different? That would make them less attractive.

    Do I need to do anything regarding insulation considering it's classification is CA (closed abutted). Is that meaningful in Aus? (I think this a kiwi made light).

    Do I leave a space around it and if so how big a space?

    Will there be a condensation issue if I do leave a space and how do I address this?

    Will it simply be attached to the ceiling sheet? It weighs 7kg.

    Do I wait until I have it (mainly regarding the transformer) before putting up the ceiling or can the electrician install it after ceiling is up?

    It states in the product details "All fittings with 40cm flying leads for easy wiring to transformer". Does this mean I need to get a transformer and it doesn't come with one?

    If yes, what type?



    PS. Not touching wiring myself just don't want to hang ceiling plaster and regret not preparing correctly or not having clear access for some reason. Also need to get on with it. Am bathroom-less at mo.


    Cheers guys. Any and all assistance much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    My advice would be to look at LED downlights like the Atom range. There are other similar brands, usually carried by your local friendly electrical wholesaler (electrician suppliers like TLE, Turks, etc). These come with the appropriate transformer etc and all the electrician has to do is fit a socket outlet that the transformer plugs into. The other advantage of these is that if one fails (uncommon) you should be able to get another.

    The wiring (existing?) can be done before you have the fitting and the transformer will fit through the hole that you cut for the recessed downlight(s)

    Wayfair have all sorts of stuff which may or may not comply. Although others may be cheaper, the extra you will spend for "proper" fittings is not much in relation to the total cost of a bathroom reno.

    AS3000 specifies clearance from combustible materials etc, but this still relates to incandescent fittings which generate much more heat than LEDs. The escape clause is "not less than the minimum clearance specified by the manufacturer of the luminaire", which will generally be less than the AS3000 distances for LEDs. You can also fit a fire resistant barrier or guard over the lights in order to comply with clearances if required. These are also available from the light supplier.

    LEDs notionally come in "cool white" and "warm white". These colours vary a bit between manufacturers so for a bathroom it is worth testing your choice for the colour rendering index (i.e. how natural colours are under them). This is important in a bathroom since you don't want the ladies doing their makeup then coming out looking like a circus clown!

  3. #3
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    Thanks chalkyt for the reply.

    Ok, so I don't have to wait to put ceiling up. Awesome.

    I kind a figured I'd be advised to go LED. The one I've chosen is aesthetically what I want and I've googled myself to death looking at all manner of lighting and not seen same.

    If you read the link it says "Accommodates: 50W Max MR16 Halogen or LED-MR3W bulb (not included)". So that's LED compatible?

    So, for this particular one, I'm still unsure of....

    Does it attach to plasterboard (weighs 7kg)?

    What does classification CA (closed abutted) mean regarding insulation and ceiling member clearance?

    Will there be a condensation issue if I do leave a space and how do I address this?

    It states in the product details "All fittings with 40cm flying leads for easy wiring to transformer". Does this mean I need to get a transformer and it doesn't come with one? If yes, what type?

    If I do look at LED lighting, how do I narrow it all down to suitable for bathroom? Only middle of ceiling so not near water.

    Cheers, Su.


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    Su...I'd consider an LED panel light for your bathroom rather than a downlight. Something like these LED Panel Lights, LED Light Panel, LED Panels, LED Ceiling Lights, LED Tile Lights

    Having seen one in action they strike me as a useful non directional light source.

    In our own bathroom we managed to avoid the ceiling light altogether and fit a exterior station light (from Robert Kitto in Adelaide) on one wall with big globe in it plus a couple of smaller versions of the same thing over the mirror...
    wb34sng-600x600.jpg
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    Aha! got the link to work this time.

    I have installed those fittings... they are a Chinese knock off of a premium brand that I can't remember (I think that they were used a lot in McDonalds about 5 years ago). They took 12V G4 bi-pin halogen bulbs. The place where I installed them supplied the light fittings themselves so I don't remember if they were supplied with the transformers or not. Once again your local electrical wholesaler will be able to supply transformers if you need them, just take the light fittings along. Mind you, typical Chinese manufactured with little terminals etc that you can't get a wire into, but if supplied with flying leads it should be O.K. From memory they were about 120mm deep so you would have to see the manufacturer's specifications re clearance to combustibles.

    I do recall that they were a bit tinny and might develop corrosion if used in a damp environment without good ventilation.

    In general terms, 12V fittings aren't a problem in bathrooms as they can be installed within the classified damp zones. In your case it sounds as though they will be outside the 600mm from a water container "Zone 2" and above the ceiling. Your electrician can advise you.

    Re LED or Halogen compatible. Everyone is claiming this these days. Generally there are LED or Halogen replacements for almost everything, so everything is "compatible" as far as the marketing departments are concerned.

    Re condensation... don't know but I would expect the heat from the lamps to take care of it.

    I think that the fittings for the above job came from Sparky Direct (I did suggested that the owners have a look at their range, since they wanted a reasonably large number of fittings for bedrooms and living rooms) but a quick look at Sparky Direct today didn't show them up. The price was around the same, from memory. But, once again talk to TLE/Turks or whoever as they may well be able to source the same thing.

    Re weight. I am not sure that the fittings I installed weighed 7kg (more like 3kg, I think) but they did just clip into the 13mm gyprock ceiling cutout. Someone else might be able to advise on ceilings and weight bearing.

    Hope this all helps.

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    Ok, thanks chalkyt. That's mostly sounding good.

    I'm still trying to determine if the CA classification is relevant here in Aus. Here's an exerpt from Welcome to BRANZ which says CA means you can cover with insulation.

    If you see a gap between the insulation
    and the fitting, and want to improve your
    thermal efficiency, BRANZ recommends using
    the correct fitting type. To allow close-butted
    insulation, the light fitting must be rated as
    either category Closed and Abutted (CA) or
    Restricted and Abutted (RA) – refer to the
    manufacturer’s installation instruction sheet.
    Typically use only CA fittings above moist
    areas like kitchens, laundries and bathrooms.



    The specs say it's 110mm high by the way, including the closed box. That means, I have about 70mm above unit, up to the sisalation and if I cut a hole in the sisalation (don't want to do this), about 105-115mm from above the unit. It's not going to be 200mm as stated for halogen so not sure if the CA bit changes all this.

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    Actually it's 85mm deep

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    Now if i could find something like this but with a gimble and maybe a square face plate and maybe two lights....

    https://www.electricaldirectltd.co.n...9e8d13bf2028f6

    Features:



    • Connects directly to mains supply - plug and play
    • Integrated driver
    • IP65 - suitable for bathrooms or sheltered exterior - not suitable for seaside exterior situations
    • Superior LUXEON rebel chip
    • 75,000 hour life
    • Fire rated to 90 minutes
    • No UV
    • 34 degree beam angle
    • Brighter than 35W dichroic lamp
    • 90%energy saving compared to 50W halogen
    • Warm White luminous flux - 330 lm, 41lm/w
    • 1216 lux at 1 mtr
    • 7 year warranty
    • Cutout 60-70mm
    • Dimensions 90mm Diameter x 84mmH
    • Manufactured in the United Kingdom

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    I noticed that the fittings you are looking at are IP20. The "2" relates to mechanical protection against touching anything live (in this case a 12.5mm wide finger), the "0" relates to harmful ingress of water (in this case no protection). Don't know what the CA is about. I will see if I can find out the "premium" brand version of your fitting. The customer may still have the spec sheets which will give an idea of clearance to combustibles and insulation. From memory it was about 50mm sideways (i.e. rafters).,.Clearance above wasn't an issue in this case so I don't recall what it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shauck View Post
    Now if i could find something like this but with a gimble and maybe a square face plate and maybe two lights....
    vbl-206-gm-wh.jpg
    Only 55 mm deep...but not cheap.

    Vibe Lighting - 2 x 3 x 3W LED Twin Square Downlight - LED Downlights - LED | GoLights.com.au

    Failing that they've got GU10 gimballed fittings for $20 Vibe Lighting - Gimbal White LED GU10 240V Downlight with Flex & Plug Fitting - LED Downlights - LED | GoLights.com.au
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    [QUOTE=SilentButDeadly;936414]
    Only 55 mm deep...but not cheap./QUOTE]

    Also, it "Requires 700mA constant current driver" (power supply),. no doubt at extra cost.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkyt View Post
    I noticed that the fittings you are looking at are IP20. The "2" relates to mechanical protection against touching anything live (in this case a 12.5mm wide finger), the "0" relates to harmful ingress of water (in this case no protection). Don't know what the CA is about. I will see if I can find out the "premium" brand version of your fitting. The customer may still have the spec sheets which will give an idea of clearance to combustibles and insulation. From memory it was about 50mm sideways (i.e. rafters).,.Clearance above wasn't an issue in this case so I don't recall what it was.
    Ok, I thought the IP20 was rust proof at least. The last one I posted a link to is IP65. The CA classification is relating to NZ rules. Maybe they're just a bit ahead in the area of sorting out issues that arise from different trades doing their thing and having it affect the lighting such as insulation being put in without knowing the product they're working around.

    I've chosen a light by the way. It's this one LEDlux Infinity Mini White Downlight Kit in Warm White

    That's a nice one but doesn't tell whether it's for bathroom use. Oh and I forgot to say, in white. Quite frankly, I've given up and as I said above, bought one but it's not a gimble so is a compromise. It was recommended in an old post. I spoke to the lighting shop and was assured it is a good un.

    [QUOTE=FrodoOne;936427]
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly View Post
    Only 55 mm deep...but not cheap./QUOTE]

    Also, it "Requires 700mA constant current driver" (power supply),. no doubt at extra cost.
    Yes, very pricey. Maybe if this was our forever home. Next one.

  13. #13
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    So to round it all up. This lighting search/experience has been a difficult one that could be made easier if consistent information was given pre-purchase. Installation instructions links on websites would be a good start. Some companies offer more info than others and most of them give all sorts of info other than the stuff I needed to know. Trying to find the info via emails to the company has not always produced results. I got the run around a bit. In the end, gave up trying to find something that aesthetically pleased and settled for something I was assured was fit for purpose. My advise to any and all, avoid a raked ceiling in your bathroom and leave yourself plenty of time to learn about and choose lighting/heating well before you need it on site.

    PS thanks Metrix for the previous post and recommended light. I hope it's "the one"...

    Cheers all, Su.

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