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  1. #1
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    Default Electrical Supplies

    With all the arguments about using a qualified electrician etc...WHY...do Bunnings and others sell electrical fitting, cable etc etc...we all know most of it is sold to the DIYer, if you really want to get serious, maybe,,, to buy electrical stuff, you need to show your licence...I must admit, I have done a bit of electrical work myself, but it is so easy to go and buy the stuff...if it was sold only to the qualified...I would be pi$$ed off, but I am sure I would get used to it...they sell this stuff...with a little discalimer sign...saying all electrical work must be done etc etc...if you aren't allowed to work with it...don't sell it to the DIYer..problem fixed....if you haven't got a drivers licence..you can't drive (legally)...same deal...but we also need to get rid of the cowboys out of the trade too.
    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeton View Post
    With all the arguments about using a qualified electrician etc...WHY...do Bunnings and others sell electrical fitting, cable etc etc...we all know most of it is sold to the DIYer,
    Its been on the cards to stop Hardware shops selling these products but the augment is.
    Just because someone bought the product doesn't mean they are not going to install it them self.

    The intermediate solution (after a bunnings employee got sued for instructing some how to wire in a power-point who went home and installed it and got it wrong with the result ofa death) was the signs that remind people that its Illegal.

    It will happen

    After all you dont need a drivers licence to buy a car

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    After all you dont need a drivers licence to buy a car
    Indeed and that's a very good reason to not restrict the sale of electrical items.

    Another one being that if people can't get the proper gear, they'll just make something DIY instead that's even more dangerous. That WILL happen if sales to the public are restricted.

    Personally, I just don't see any real problem selling common electrical accessories to the general public. I'm sure it probably has been associated with an accident here and there, but if someone's going to mess it up then they'll do that with or without the proper equipment. At least if the gear itself is safe then that's a start.

    Overall, I'm just fed up with the nanny state. The onus ought to be on the house purchaser (including landlords) to get the place inspected for electrical (and other) safety upon purchase. I guarantee you that will weed out a lot more dodgy electrical work than any amount of industry regulation and restrictions.

    I don't spend my days doing domestic work, I've always been into process control etc, but from what I've seen I'd say that houses where the wiring is done correctly are certainly in the minority. I don't recall seeing too many there there wasn't something wrong in some way.

    Plumbing's the same. So is building itself. Very hard to get a job done properly no matter what trade it is. Might as well at least use the proper gear.

  4. #4
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    Another one being that if people can't get the proper gear, they'll just make something DIY instead that's even more dangerous. .
    Yeah like this
    gpo.jpg

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    Yeah like this
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gpo.jpg 
Views:	210 
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ID:	75774
    Now there's a quality product...

    Seriously, get used to a lot more of that sort of stuff if product sales to the public are restricted. With a few exceptions, people will make do if they can't get the proper bits and that's something I think everyone on this forum would have done (not necessarily with electricity, but with something) at some point.

  6. #6
    Retired Marine Engineer 1K Club Member Ashore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    (after a bunnings employee got sued for instructing some how to wire in a power-point who went home and installed it and got it wrong with the result ofa death)
    Is this another of your stories nev and if not then who when and where did this happen I have never heard of it , if it did happen and is not another urban myth then where is the proof, a link to the fact perhaps, or are you just telling us of something a mate of a mate who lived next door to a bloke who knew a bloke that was charged
    Ashore




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  7. #7
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashore View Post
    where is the proof, a link to the fact perhaps,
    Sorr I dont Video record nine news
    Thats a breach of copyright

  8. #8
    Tool Whore - 1K Club Member Vernonv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashore View Post
    ... I have never heard of it ...
    Neither has Google ... but it is a bit of a piss-ant search engine.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
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  9. #9
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    Neither has Google ... but it is a bit of a piss-ant search engine.
    I've been search for about 1/2 and hour and I couldn't find it either. I did, however, find lots of discussions on other forums about how restrictive Australian rules are.

  10. #10
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Try here
    Energy Safe Victoria
    Telephone: (03) 9203 9700
    Facsimile: (03) 9686 2197
    Email: info@esv.vic.gov.au

    Or
    Work Safe
    (03) 9641 1444 or 1800 136 089 (toll free).
    Otherwise email info@worksafe.vic.gov.au

    I'm sure they will tell you

    Ask them about why we have strict regulations

  11. #11
    Retired Marine Engineer 1K Club Member Ashore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    Sorr I dont Video record nine news
    Thats a breach of copyright
    Umm thats not actually true Nev, its not illegal to tape any free to air program, even the news , thats just another urban myth
    Ashore




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  12. #12
    Soldiers Earned Your Right To Free Speech watson's Avatar
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    The relevant Section of the copyright act is here

  13. #13
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashore View Post
    Umm thats not actually true Nev, its not illegal to tape any free to air program, even the news , thats just another urban myth
    Read the copyright warning at the end of the news


    Oh so now you want to start an augment on copyright law

    Unbelievable

  14. #14
    Retired Marine Engineer 1K Club Member Ashore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    Read the copyright warning at the end of the news
    Exactily READ the if any warning , don't just gloss over it and use your interpertation to suit your arguement, its not illegal to copy it, its what you do with the copy that can become illegal , same as its not illegal to make copies of Movies if they are for archival purposes , and why I mentioned it is because your so exact about the law and the regulations regarding anything electrical and often quote word and verse , I thought you might like to know the facts about tapeing free to air tv programs
    Ashore




    The trouble with life is there's no background music.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    Yeah like this
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gpo.jpg 
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    That must be the DIY Heritage Series

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    That must be the DIY Heritage Series
    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Many many years ago while waiting to chat to an S.E.C inspector another inspector just returned from inspecting some DIY work...He threw 2 or 3 gpo,s on the counter and stated that he removed them from some old chaps house and that the old chap was really annoyed at the inspector stating that the gpo,s had worked with no problems....Taking a closer look at the gpos ....he had wired them with speaker cable (no earth).....But that DIY Heritage series takes the cake ...;-)

    Frank

  17. #17
    Tool Whore - 1K Club Member Vernonv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankmc View Post
    ....he had wired them with speaker cable (no earth)....
    Freely available information and open discussion could easily prevent such things from happening.

    But of course freely available information and open discussion would hinder "safety".
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
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  18. #18
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    Of course we are missing the point.

    Nev has successfully sidetracked the discussion of his alleged Bunnings employee's adventures in court after giving free advice into a redundant and off-topic discussion of copyright.

    Well done Nev!

    Whilst I don't agree with Nev's electrical opinions, I have to give him this debating point. You guys will have to think harder and get up earlier in the morning if you want to out Nev him

    woodbe.

  19. #19
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    Isn't this thread http://www.renovateforum.com/showthread.php?t=76164 supposed to be the one where this mindnumbing dribble is supposed to be discussed... or is it that you draconian lobbyists can't bare the thought that the only issue which you are on this forum to push is languishing at the bottom of the thread count? I haven't been on this forum for long but even for me it is so predictable... Protectionists say something inflammatory... the Pro-DIYers feel they must retaliate and the issue simmers at the top of the 'new posts' list... it is exactly what they want. It's like a government media machine... 'MUST keep issues in the public domain, can't let the message be drowned out by others'. Have a look at the first page of the Electrical forum and you will see what I mean.

    I would just ignore these posts unless the are in "The Not So Great Electrical Debate" thread. Let them whinge... but don't reply. Eventually they will relaise that most people on this forum are here to help or be helped... not to push agendas. The moderators have even been so kind as to provide you with a soap box in the above thread... how many more soap boxes do you need?

  20. #20
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    But Richard, now you are extending the time this thread lives at the top by whinging about the whingers!

    Pot Kettle Black

    woodbe.

  21. #21
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    Geez...sorry if I upset you Richard...maybe I put it in the wrong section, it was a legitimate question and topic to discuss, as I often wondered when in Bunnings...anyone can buy this stuff without question.

  22. #22
    Golden Member m6sports's Avatar
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    even though its illegal to do your own electrical work and there is a good reason to it dont forget web sites like this are here to help people

    Im personaly fed up with people putting others down and making a BIG deal out of nothing, please dont get me wrong im not just saying its this site but every forum ive visited its becoming more and more common
    i think this forum is great if i didnt i wouldnt be here

    If ive got nothing to input i wont, just because i dont agree doesnt mean its wrong

    there are lots of things we do every day that are illegal but we still do it
    i have changed a light switch to a new one its illegal but i dont think its something worth calling an electrician for, thats if they would even come

    people just need to be smart about it

  23. #23
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
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    Well the premise of this thread lends itself more to debate, than an enquiry for advice of some sort, so I'm happy to sit back with my popcorn and watch the sparks fly.

    I almost spat my coffee at my monitor when I saw Nev's 'DIY Heritage' GPO, but then I thought that when I'm spraying my kitchen doors, I could easily spray my MDF power points at the same time, and outfit my whole house with designer coloured GPOs made from offcuts.

    Thanks Nev. (j.k. as if that's necessary, although you probably made that GPO yourself just to discredit DIYers. I wouldn't put it past you since you can't back up your Bunnings story with any evidence. )
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  24. #24
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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  25. #25
    Soldiers Earned Your Right To Free Speech watson's Avatar
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    Look Nev,
    That's not evidence. Just Energy Safe saying there's a poster available.
    Now Put up or shut up

  26. #26
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    WTF

    I was just answering the original post

    Quote Originally Posted by leeton;
    ..WHY...do Bunnings and others sell electri5]cal fitting, cable etc etc...we all know most of it is sold to the DIYer,
    Get with the program

  27. #27
    Soldiers Earned Your Right To Free Speech watson's Avatar
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    Red Herring thrown into the ring. (check the warning and disclaimer)

    I'm in the programme.......maybe I'm Hector the Director for this particular programme

  28. #28
    Oink! Oink! pawnhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I'm Hector the Director for this particular programme

    Administrator Only when I have to
    You didn't nuke him just for saying 'get with the programme' did you Noel?
    He might have a bit of attitude, but everyone can see that he's not backing up what he's said.

    He adds a bit of spice to the joint I reckon, so grow some cahones and duke it out, don't nuke it out.

    /ducks to avoid banhammer
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  29. #29
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  30. #30
    Diamond Member Terrian's Avatar
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    so where does it say a Bunnings worker got sued ?



    edit: damn, Nev banned, perm or short term ?

  31. #31
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    Yet to see.....but isn't it calm in here?

  32. #32
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    But I've still got some popcorn left.
    Cheers, John

    Short Stack (my son's band)


  33. #33
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    i think nev got treated harshly. the question was bout electrical supplies and obviously energysafe victoria have concerns about electrical work being done illegally. electricity kills and not every death makes front page news.

    the problem with diy work is that no one is accountable if things go wrong. people might not like it but the law is the law and nev has every right to his view. you dont have to agree and you can argue about it but the LAW IS THE LAW

    its not that hard to grasp and energysafe should get out there and prosecute to get the message across


    cheers brad

  34. #34
    Diamond Member Terrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklooger View Post
    i think nev got treated harshly.
    bought on by his own actions.

    If you are going to say something as fact, best to be able to back it up.

  35. #35
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    Default its not just bunnings

    you can go to AWM, middys wholesale electrical stores and buy what eva you bloody like no questions at all...
    As long as you can pay for it thats fine....
    same as bunnings....
    but if they say anything, tell them a white LIE

  36. #36
    rrobor
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    Aw cripes I missed this one, I was too busy trying to get a rat off my wireless router. Anyways I get sick of people telling me you cant. If we all go round saying you cant then this country would be stuffed. Killing yourself fitting a power point is the act of an idiot, it has 3 terminals L N E where oh where is the rocket science in that. If you dont switch the power off before you change the socket, you have to think yourself lucky that you survived that long.

  37. #37
    1K Club Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrobor View Post
    Aw cripes I missed this one, I was too busy trying to get a rat off my wireless router. Anyways I get sick of people telling me you cant. If we all go round saying you cant then this country would be stuffed. Killing yourself fitting a power point is the act of an idiot, it has 3 terminals L N E where oh where is the rocket science in that. If you dont switch the power off before you change the socket, you have to think yourself lucky that you survived that long.
    I kinda agree. I see the reason for the law to state that you shouldn't be messing with electrical stuff, but get annoyed when someone responds to an electrical based question with "call your electrician". There are 101 ways to kill myself, cut off a limb, blind myself, or cause respiratory problems in the course of general DIY work. Operating a chainsaw is probably more dangerous than changing a power point.
    I'm no expert, but know enough to be dangerous...
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  38. #38
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    Laws are generally made to suit the lowest denominator. Sure, most people here say they are capable of doing their own electrical work safely, but so many out there aren't. There are thousands of stories out there of stupidly dangerous acts involving electricity, performed by people that think they know what they are doing, but clearly don't. As long as there are people like that in the world, there will always be laws to stop the majority from doing it. There used to be a saying "Majority Rules" but knowadays it's "Minority Rules". Time for all you blokes to get over your "I wanna do my own wiring" whinge. The law is the law, break it if you like, I couldn't care less, but stop whining about someone suggesting that an electrician is required. When it all comes down to it, you are asking qualified electricians to help people break the law. If you really care so much, investigate how and why NZ started allowing DIY, and lobby local governments or whoever to change it here. As an electrician, I wouldn't resist in any way, providing it is done sensibly.

  39. #39
    rrobor
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    Dont understand why headpin. I dont give one hoot as to who fits the wall socket in a soggy bathroom, the danger is the water not the fitting. So if you get the Einstein of plug fitting or Norm the handyman, it will still be stupid in my eyes. So why is it contrary to my other posts? you confuse me.

  40. #40
    rrobor
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    At what poind did I advocate that anyone should fit a power socket who wasnt going to anyway. I will give advice as to what I see as safe, if you think a teenager sitting a CD player on a ledge whilst having a bath is safe, sorry I do not, the protection she had was a 15A wire fuse. People are free to do as they wish, if they wish to fit a socket is it not safer to give them instructions as they do in USA rather than have them try by finding out as they do it. My beef is the Law on fitting a power point in a bathroom is a joke, it has to be at X distance from the sink, well aa hair drier extends that point to zero.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrobor View Post
    My beef is the Law on fitting a power point in a bathroom is a joke, it has to be at X distance from the sink, well aa hair drier extends that point to zero.
    A 20 metre extension lead extends it even further. Where do you stop? The distances are minimum limits determined by the likelihood of water being splashed from the sink nearby. Stupid people will do stupid things, Nothing can prevent it. Ever wonder why all circuits must now have an RCD on them????

  42. #42
    rrobor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headpin View Post
    If you broke your posts up into legible paragraphs, it would be much easier to read.

    Have you blanked off the GPO's in your kitchen? I suspect that you have an assortment of nasty corded electrical appliances that could get wet there too.

    What length extension cord have you on your electric jug? I bet a boiling electric jug just sends shivers down your back?

    As Blonk says, the authorities had to draw a line in the sand somewhere in relationship to GPO posistions. Personally, I don't think the regulations are too bad.

    How many Aussie homes have we? 22-23 million? how many deaths due to water in the GPO? I don't know, but I do believe the ratio would be quite insignificant.
    If you broke your posts up into legible paragraphs, it would be much easier to read.

    Well Headpin I believed a pargraph denoted the end of a subject, ant the moving on to a new subject.

    It did not denote each and every full stop then double spacing.

    But as I say often if thats your thing man, be happy.

    It just aint for me.
    my arguement is based on the fact that the law says I cant change a power point, yet someone signed off on my bathroom with a power point about 50cm from a full sink.
    The chances are someone has washed their hair and has a hair drier perched on the vanity. When this was done protection was by a 15A fuse. Now this is a family bathroom and at the time had young kids. If you tell me the plug in my bathroom (picture posted on other post) is safe then I dont know where you are at.

  43. #43
    rrobor
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    Why do people say "we will leave it at that" . Then they continue to dig. Grammar and spelling in a site such as this I believed was a non issue. Why pick on me? Most of the posts including your own, get something wrong. Perhaps we should have Noel out with his red pen giving us marks out of ten for spelling and punctuation.

  44. #44
    Soldiers Earned Your Right To Free Speech watson's Avatar
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    And neatness, and punctuality.

  45. #45
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    I personally agree with much of what rrobor has stated such far. Just the humble uneducated opinion of a lowly refrigeration mechanic.

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