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LED Light suggestions

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  1. #1
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    Default LED Light suggestions

    Hi all, any particular brand model numbers in LED lights that are dimmable? they do not need to replace existing lights as most of the ceiling will be new. Kitchen and Living Room areas (in theory it will be open plan if the internal walls come down so these spaces merge into each other). I Did see this link Choosing The Right LED Lights | Planet LED. One brand/product I saw was this Hillstone LED - 15PLR or this Domus Lighting 13W LED Downlight Round WW LED Light review. Also what light switches, Clipsal Saturn brand?

  2. #2
    JB1
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    I have wattsavers dl7 1400 and they are dimmable.

    My electrician installed standard clipsal dimmers.

    I bought them myself so there was no guarantee from the electrician.

  3. #3
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    Default LED Light suggestions

    Melec are a good product. Steer clear of ebay and get them from a reputable wholesaler.

  4. #4
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    We always use the 11W LEDlux brand, 5 year warranty, low profile, IP44,very good spread of beam, never had the sparkie called back to change any, 100% reliable.

    Non Dimmable
    LEDlux Infinity Mini White Downlight Kit in Warm White | LED Downlights | Downlights | Lighting

    Dimmable
    LEDlux Infinity Mini 600 Lumen Dimmable Round White Downlight Kit in Warm White | LED Downlights | Downlights | Lighting

  5. #5
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    I posted the following in another thread:

    I just recently installed a combination of about 20 Martec Shadowline (gimble) and Genesis LEDs after getting good recommendations from Whirlpool etc. The Shadowline can not be covered by batts but the Genesis can be (but as the guys said above, not the driver).

    Martec are a reputable Oz company (fans,lighting, etc) whereas I was finding that a lot of the LEDs on offer were from fly by night startup companies from OS without any real reputation to them. Anyway, I couldnt be happier with them. Style wise they look great, operationally they look great (3000k units) and the individual LEDs are not visible (that look annoys me) and they dim really well. Plus if you shop around you can get them very competitively. I got them from Eurolight (for a bit over $30 each):

    Martec Genesis White Finish 3000K Warm White LED Downlight Kit Genesis White Finish 3000K LED Downlight Kit [MLGD3010WD] - $23.00 - Lighting Australia | Lighting Online | Bathroom Lighting | Ceiling Fans Australia | Downlights Melbourne | Eurolight
    16W Shadowline LED Downlight Kit, 120 (White) Warm White Light 6 Pack Bundle 16W Shadowline LED Downlight Kit, 120 (White) Warm White Light 6 Pack Bundle [MLSG3012WD_6] - $245.95 - Lighting Australia | Lighting Online | Bathroom Lighting | Ceiling

  6. #6
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    I think that any of the brands sold through Electrical Wholesalers are pretty good. I have used Atom Lighting products quite a bit and have had no problems... choice of shapes (round or square), dimable, can't see the individual LEDs, cool or warm white etc.

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    Hi

    thank you for the product suggestions. how important is it to get a kit that can be covered by insulation? if it cant be covered, is it enough to cut a hole out of the insulation or should you also have some sort of cover on it?

    see the image for my floorplan. The three areas are in the plan,

    Lounge Room
    Warm White 3000k
    Kitchen
    Cool White 5000k?
    Dining
    Warm White 3000k

    Also see to the edge of the kitchen my Top Down view of the kitchen plan.

    * I intend to buy Dimmable, so w the below questions consider that I can turn LEDs down if required.

    Q1
    How many LEDs do you think need to go in each room to provide adequate light

    Q2
    Position wise, for say Dining and Lounge room, would you just spread the quantity from Q1 out evenly. ie. in from each wall the same etc. Whilst for the kitchen, maybe I have two over the bench either side of the freestanding cooker (RH side of image) then 2 over the Island (2M x 1.2M), one over the bench (top part of image) which also has a void for a chair so someone can sit there and work, then 2 more somewhere?

    I was thinking pendant lights over the bench, but that would only be for supposed "show", wife likes the look but reckons its not worth the constant cleaning or dusting them, so no pendants.



    Edit: found this link

    http://www.charlstonlights.com/blog/...ith-led-lights
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails layout-led-lights.jpg  

  8. #8
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    Even though the risk of fire from a covered LED light is negligable compared to a Halogen, it's not a good idea to cover them with insulation, as the enemy of LED is heat.
    LED do still create heat just nowhere near as much as a Halogen, if that heat cannot effectively escape the LED modules will die prermaturely.

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    Hi Metrix, so your recommending cutting out a insulation circle regardless of whether the unit is one rated to sit under insulation.

  10. #10
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    You can also box them in which removes airflow heat loss from the room to the roof, there will be recommended distances for the gap between appliance and light. I have this week seen what look like cheap imported LED replacements for fluoro tubes that have melted and charred within two weeks of installation, that had nothing to do with insulation as they were below the ceiling.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Even though the risk of fire from a covered LED light is negligable compared to a Halogen, it's not a good idea to cover them with insulation, as the enemy of LED is heat.
    LED do still create heat just nowhere near as much as a Halogen, if that heat cannot effectively escape the LED modules will die prermaturely.
    To DaleBlack,

    You asked "how important is it to get a kit that can be covered by insulation?"

    I suggest that you check Wiring Rules clause 4.5.2.3 - Recessed luminaires - Department of Justice and Attorney-General,
    Insulation installation | YourHome
    or similar sites.

    Also, please note that it is now a requirement that
    "Where recessed luminaires are installed in an accessible roof space, a permanent and legible warning sign shall be installed in the roof space adjacent to the access panel, in a position that is visible to a person entering the space. The sign shall comply with AS 1319 and contain the words shown in Figure 4.8 with a minimum size of lettering of 10 mm."
    (Figure 4.8 is shown below)


    As for LEDs which CAN be covered by insulation, you may be interested in http://sunnylighting.com.au/productd...prodname=S9065

    In the description below it says only "Polyamide body with latest heat dissipation technology".
    However, I am advised that, in the details that come with it, it is stated that it can be mounted underneath
    insulation.
    It is 10W (800 lm - 900 lm, depending on the colour), only 88 mm high with a built in driver.

    Recessed downlight
    Polyamide body with latest heat dissipation technology
    Opal acrylic diffuser, even light output
    High efficiency SMD LED chips
    Integrated design, easy installation
    Built-in trailing edge dimmable LED driver
    1.2 m flex & plug fitted
    IP44 weatherproof
    Available fitting colour: White
    Available colour temperature: Warm White, Cool White, Daylight
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails recessed-warning.jpg  

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleBlack View Post

    * I intend to buy Dimmable, so w the below questions consider that I can turn LEDs down if required.

    Q1
    How many LEDs do you think need to go in each room to provide adequate light

    Q2
    Position wise, for say Dining and Lounge room, would you just spread the quantity from Q1 out evenly. ie. in from each wall the same etc. Whilst for the kitchen, maybe I have two over the bench either side of the freestanding cooker (RH side of image) then 2 over the Island (2M x 1.2M), one over the bench (top part of image) which also has a void for a chair so someone can sit there and work, then 2 more somewhere?

    I was thinking pendant lights over the bench, but that would only be for supposed "show", wife likes the look but reckons its not worth the constant cleaning or dusting them, so no pendants.

    Edit: found this link

    Tips on planning your home interior with LED Lights - Charlston
    I agree with most of the items in the link which you found, and the dimensions and diagrams which are given, except for the changes indicated below: -

    Kitchen

    Kitchen should be illuminated entirely with wide angle lights to view cleanness and for ease of tasks. Platform and sink should have more lighting. Under cabinet lighting SHOULD also be used in kitchen. Narrow beam lights can be used to highlight Kitchen Island, pantries of counter areas. (Not sure concerning "narrow beam" lights and LEDs tend to be wide angle) (I agree with your wife, avoid pendant lights in the kitchen.) (Are you not having a "range hood" - with an exhaust fan and [probably] built in lighting?) (Give great consideration to the individual switching of the various areas. If appropriate areas are individually switched, dimming of most areas will probably NOT be necessary - slightly reducing costs. If you had an eating area in the Kitchen, dimming the lighting for this area may be an advantage but this does not appear to be so - from your diagram.)

    Dining

    Dining room requires ambient lighting with a lot more focus on table. Hanging or pendant type of lights are much more suitable for that. It will make your dining space look beautiful and functional. Make sure to hang pendant light at correct height.

    Drawing room

    Drawing room/Living room/TV room is most used part of the house. It is the main place where more number of people gather than any other places of the house. LED light should be used to create ambient light environment. Planner should also consider dimmable lights in this premise. Any glare or strong shadow should be eliminated.

    The only time you are likely to use bright general lighting in this room is if you have a party. With a smaller number of people you will most likely want bright general lighting in only a small area. Therefore, it is necessary that you arrange for the lighting to be switched on and dimmed in appropriate "blocks" covering various discrete areas - NOT "all or nothing". (Of course. this applies to the Kitchen as well.)
    The above does not take into consideration that this room will be the room used as a TV room (as there is no TV room in your diagram.)
    In my opinion, overhead lighting, even if dimmed, is entirely unsuitable for watching TV.
    For watching TV, (unless it is a dedicated "Movie Theatre" room) the area behind the TV should be gently lit, so that there is not a large contrast between a bright screen and an unlit wall. Upward shining standard lamps (or "wall washers") should be used to light the ceiling - or walls. If you wish to read at the same time, single down-lights focused on the seating area concerned might be used BUT you would have more flexibility by using items such as "mother and child" standard lamps.

  13. #13
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    Hi all, thanks for the replies and links to codes and products. Frodo One, what in your definition is wide beam for LEDs?

    We will have a rangehood with lighting.

    Will take into consideration your dining light idea, do you have any images or links on such setups.

    TV room or lounge room above, will have a TV on the wall to the Left of the image. I was going to use these Beacon lighting glow Cane type lamps I already have in both corners that provide ambient light and when watching TV have that whole room turned off.
    EDIT: I was going to have a All or nothing setup in that Lounge room with dimmers, but your right in that currently when I have the TV on, I like to turn Overheads off completely, so the dimmer wouldn't really help on that point. It is quite a large room though, the lounge will sit approx mid way or even just a 1/3 of the rooms length back from the TV (on wall to the left), that leaves a large area behind the lounge and the TV viewers, including the entrance to the house. Maybe I should at least split the overhead LEDS in the lounge room to 2 circuits both w dimmers, so maybe the back half could be on and dimmed where kids could play.

    Maybe 3 circuits, one for the 1st third inc TV area, 2nd 1/3 and then final 1/3 which is really the entrance way, then hallway (though post internal wall knockout theyre gone) down to the kitchen zone. (bear in my mind whilst that image above shows rectangular sections, the whole area will be one space, open plan, the rectangles are just my attempt at logical zoning).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleBlack View Post
    Hi all, thanks for the replies and links to codes and products. Frodo One, what in your definition is wide beam for LEDs?

    We will have a rangehood with lighting.

    Will take into consideration your dining light idea, do you have any images or links on such setups.

    TV room or lounge room above, will have a TV on the wall to the Left of the image. I was going to use these Beacon lighting glow Cane type lamps I already have in both corners that provide ambient light and when watching TV have that whole room turned off.
    EDIT: I was going to have a All or nothing setup in that Lounge room with dimmers, but your right in that currently when I have the TV on, I like to turn Overheads off completely, so the dimmer wouldn't really help on that point. It is quite a large room though, the lounge will sit approx mid way or even just a 1/3 of the rooms length back from the TV (on wall to the left), that leaves a large area behind the lounge and the TV viewers, including the entrance to the house. Maybe I should at least split the overhead LEDS in the lounge room to 2 circuits both w dimmers, so maybe the back half could be on and dimmed where kids could play.

    Maybe 3 circuits, one for the 1st third inc TV area, 2nd 1/3 and then final 1/3 which is really the entrance way, then hallway (though post internal wall knockout theyre gone) down to the kitchen zone. (bear in my mind whilst that image above shows rectangular sections, the whole area will be one space, open plan, the rectangles are just my attempt at logical zoning).
    I am open to correction on all of the following but, from memory, with Halogen down-lights the most common beam angle was (about) 36 Degrees. Narrower beam angles were available, used mainly for highlighting "art work".

    "Wide angle" was then about 90 degrees - from these "point source" luminaries.
    (There is a good discussion concerning LED Beam Angel {and other things} at Choosing The Right LED Lights | Planet LED)

    The fitting to which I referred in a previous post has a "frosted" face-plate - which is an obvious indication that it is wide angle and greater than 90 degrees. (Obviously, the maximum would be 180 degrees, which is that approached by a LED "globe" in a recessed ceiling fitting.

    Personally, I have never liked down-lights for general illumination. The old 36 degree halogens produced "pools" of light which needed overlapping to produce reasonable general illumination - with the result that an average sized "Lounge Room" requited (at least) six 50 Watt down-lights (300 Watts). The equivalent in LEDs would be 60 Watts - or less!

    If any illumination is from a "point" source - or an approximation of this - there will be definite shadows produced which may not be considered "flattering" by some persons. If the face-plate is "frosted", then any shadows will be less definite and the illumination may be considered more flattering!

    Unfortunately, I have no references or links concerning the lighting of Dining areas.

    Regarding the lighting for TV viewing, permit me to refer you to http://www.renovateforum.com/f85/wal...76/#post931740 wherin there was some "discussion" between myself and Moondog55/Cecile, who (presumably) do not agree with me. I suggested that one should search on "Watching TV lighting recommendations". The references appear to have "updated" since that post but please search on that subject for information.

    The first post to which I referred (which seems to have disappeared?)
    contained the following : -
    "Room lighting
    Since most people turn down the lights to watch a movie, our recommendations are designed to deliver a better DVD picture in rooms with controlled lighting. Unless you have a big-screen projector or you're sitting at the minimum viewing distance, you shouldn't watch movies in complete darkness--it can cause eyestrain. For bright plasmas and smaller direct-view sets, the ideal setup is to place a dim light directly behind the TV and leave the rest of the room dark. Look for special "daylight" bulbs that glow at 6,500 degrees Kelvin. You should also prevent any light in the room from reflecting off the TV, as glare will hamper image fidelity. "

    Many others contain similar information.

    As for splitting lighting into smaller components, I would suggest that more is better. The cost when building is minimal - a few additional meters of wiring plus extra switches.
    (Extra dimmers may or may not be necessary, as you can control two switched circuits on the one dimmer, although that would be unusual! However if you already have the wiring and switches, any extra dimmers can be cheaply included at a later date, if you find that they are necessary.
    Remember, Australian wall plates can accommodate six mechanisms almost easily as one. So, I suggest that, where you have multiple mechanisms in a common switch plate, you always install six gang wall plates and use "blanking plates" in the unused "positions - for possible future use. This often allows a more "diagrammatic" layout of the mechanisms concerned.)

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    thanks for the feedback Frodo

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