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Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

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  1. #1
    JB1
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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    I plan to buy and install some garden lights, most are low voltage but others are 240V.

    I plan to wire them myself and then connect it to a outdoor GPO.

    Is this legal?

    Does being 12V connected to a transformer or 240V make any difference?

  2. #2
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    You're are fine with what you get if it runs 12v from the power pack. I doubt you would have lights that are running 240v direct. Just check the weather rating of the transformer pack or follow the guidelines that come with it. The packs that say 240v would generally mean they have a plug pack that runs from a GPO.

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    Running on 12V from a commercially manufactured transformer that is simply plugged in.

    In short, there's nothing to stop you doing whatever you like with it really. As long as you have some basic electrical knowledge sufficient to avoid shorting anything out then you should be fine.

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    Thanks, I thought so.

    I plan to sell the house, so don't want any issues.

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    For future reference mate.
    12v = extra low voltage
    240v = low voltage

    Under 50v AC is elv

  6. #6
    JB1
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    Default Re: Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    Fair enough, but I've never would have thought of 240v being low voltage (for domestic homes) since it can kill you.

    It's all relative isn't it? A millionaire will be richer than 99% of the world's population but be considered poor to a billionaire! Haha

    Way off topic, but I love this story about Kerry Packer and gambling- An obnoxious oil millionaire from Texas was running his mouth flappers at the table one night and Kerry was annoyed with him. He asked the man to tone it down a bit and the man just got more abrasive, going on to say to Packer... "You know who I am partner? I'm worth $60,000,000!" Kerry was quiet for a moment then pulled out a coin and said, "I'll flip you for it"

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    In terms of classification, 240 is lv. People only think its high voltage because they have little electrican back ground

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    240V is indeed rather low compared to a 500,000 Volt transmission line (Extra High Voltage - EHV) or even a 22,000 Volt feeder (High Voltage - HV). Hence the terminology.

    It's not totally impossible to hurt yourself with 12V, it's current that kills not voltage, but in practice you'd have to do something truly silly to end up in real trouble with 12V.

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    JB1
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    OK, I was thinking of buying some 240V LED outdoor lights, either floodlight or spike light and installing it in the garden bed to throw some lights upwards in front to plants and create some light/shadows. It would be connected to my safety switched GPO in my garage (with a timer).

    5X10W Floodlight Cool Warm White IP65 LED Flood Wash Light Power Outdoor Lamp | eBay

    or something like Outdoor IP65 6W 10W LED Landscape Garden Wall Yard Path Pond Flood Spot Light | eBay

    Now the question is, given the original cables are generally bloody short and non-replaceable, what is the best way to connect the cables? daisy chain them in a water resistant junction box?

    Any suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    OK, I was thinking of buying some 240V LED outdoor lights,
    This is where you start to get into murky waters. I have seen LED floodlights from one of the clone factories in China which do not comply with the Australian standards (read minimum safety requirements) The low wattage ones (10W) I looked at had a very rudimentary driver circuit with little in the way of basic insulation and poor earthing. This could result in a serious electrical hazard. Buying off eBay is risky, at least buying them from a local store puts the responsibility of compliance with them not you. You wont get them at the same low price but approval costs someone.

    If in doubt, use a licensed electrician.
    Tools are good, more tools are better!

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    JB1
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    Yeah, a bit gray isn't it. That's why I posted the question in the first place.

    It may be a tad dodgy, however, no one will have any contacts with the light and it will be connected via a GPO/Safety Switch/Circuit Breaker and it will be seldomly used.

    Yes, I am in doubt, and that's why I'm asking how to get a water resistant connection which I will need using 240V or 12V.

    Unfortunately I can buy 5 from EBay for the price of one at Beacon lighting. And if I had to pay $50 per light, the project is a no go. The above one from EBay is Australian stock, however whether it passes Australian standards is another matter.

    If I had to get a licenced electrician in, then I'll use 12V. I would prefer 240V due to voltage drop and no need to run a separate transformer.

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    To my understanding anything, even a boat with wiring that gets plugged into a GPO in theory becomes an appliance.

    I'm 100% sure that this means that it need to be tested and treated as such that it is an appliance although I'm not sure if it means that you can do your own wiring legally. I would doubt it but I may be wrong.

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Never heard of appliance work being illegal and doubt that it is. Many of us grew up building amplifiers and lamps etc that required mains terminations. There was a time when jug elements were routinely replaced by anyone who needed that cuppa.

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    I've never really given it much thought, all as I'm saying is that whilst it may be classified as an appliance when testing I don't think just cos you wack a plug on end of a TPS and find the nearest outlet to plug it in to it makes dodgy work legal )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey180 View Post
    I've never really given it much thought, all as I'm saying is that whilst it may be classified as an appliance when testing I don't think just cos you wack a plug on end of a TPS and find the nearest outlet to plug it in to it makes dodgy work legal )
    um, tps with a plug
    I'm not really getting the gist of what is proposed here but I get the feeling it involves permanently running a mains line in or on the ground, .... makes me shudder.

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    Basically connecting garden lights to a GPO. Cable won't be in the ground but run behind a retaining wall secured by clips.

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    Basically connecting garden lights to a GPO. Cable won't be in the ground but run behind a retaining wall secured by clips.
    I say don't do this, 12 volt systems in the yard are for a reason, safety! Clipping the cable says permanent to me and leaves an assortment of possibilities where that cable could become exposed to contact. Think about how a sparkie runs cable to something like a shed, it wouldn't be a clipped extension cord! Stick to 12 or 24v and pay more for the cable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Never heard of appliance work being illegal and doubt that it is. Many of us grew up building amplifiers and lamps etc that required mains terminations. There was a time when jug elements were routinely replaced by anyone who needed that cuppa.
    HI
    Much depends on the LOCATION
    Australia requires All appliances for sale to be approved to the Standards.
    Most states class All FIXEDd low voltage electrical work as proscribed work & only to be carried out by LICENSED persons.
    This includes boats, vehicles,caravans, motor homes etc
    LIMITED licenses are required by such as plumbers Air con mechanics/installers etc to carry out simple connect & disconnect from the FIXED wiring ,be that in a boat or anywhere else.
    They can replace like for like within the appliance.
    In simple words, IF a tool is required to make or disconnect ,IT REQUIRES A LICENSE !!

    PeterQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    Basically connecting garden lights to a GPO. Cable won't be in the ground but run behind a retaining wall secured by clips.
    HI
    240V wiring????
    That is licensed electricians work IN ALL STATES of Aus.
    AND NOT the way it SHALL BE DONE.
    The cable requires additional protection
    It is not classed as outdoor cable
    IF something goes wrong,& very likely will over time ,You could be in DEEP S*^t
    PeterQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    um, tps with a plug
    I'm not really getting the gist of what is proposed here but I get the feeling it involves permanently running a mains line in or on the ground, .... makes me shudder.

    HI
    Double ditto

    But often, what one can expect from DIYERS

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtrack123 View Post
    HI
    Much depends on the LOCATION
    Australia requires All appliances for sale to be approved to the Standards.
    Most states class All FIXEDd low voltage electrical work as proscribed work & only to be carried out by LICENSED persons.
    This includes boats, vehicles,caravans, motor homes etc

    LIMITED licenses are required by such as plumbers Air con mechanics/installers etc to carry out simple connect & disconnect from the FIXED wiring ,be that in a boat or anywhere else.
    They can replace like for like within the appliance.
    In simple words, IF a tool is required to make or disconnect ,IT REQUIRES A LICENSE !!

    PeterQ

    Don't see that this makes it so. An appliance for sale to be approved - absolutely - but does it say it can't be repaired by anyone! As a business maybe a different issue.
    Caravans and boats would be specifically mentioned I assume.
    A person changing a 3 pin plug, never heard of this being illegal.

    If illegal then it should be written as such and not left to interpretation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I say don't do this, 12 volt systems in the yard are for a reason, safety! Clipping the cable says permanent to me and leaves an assortment of possibilities where that cable could become exposed to contact. Think about how a sparkie runs cable to something like a shed, it wouldn't be a clipped extension cord! Stick to 12 or 24v and pay more for the cable.

    HI
    Agree,
    Use 12v or 24V system.
    Voltage drop can be overcome with heavy cables
    Tables are available to allow calculations for cable size, based on run length & Current


    PeterQ

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    I don't mean to hijack the thread, hopefully the answer to the following question helps the OP.

    I have a small 240v water feature pump about 6 meters from an external powerpoint. I haven't done anything with the cable but lay it along the edge of the brick wall of the house. I know this is not ok.

    What should I do? Should it be in conduit? This would mean removing the plug or opening the pump and removing the cable in order to run it through the conduit.

    Danny.

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    You should call an electrician.

    If you choose not to, What I would do is install another gpo near the pump within regulations, probably in conduit and hardwired to the existing GPO. Put a plug on the lead for the pump and plug it in.

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    Thanks Whitey. I'll get the sparky to look at it next time he's here (a couple of weeks)

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Don't see that this makes it so. An appliance for sale to be approved - absolutely -
    [1]but does it say it can't be repaired by anyone
    ![2] As a business maybe a different issue.
    [3]Caravans and boats would be specifically mentioned I assume.
    [[4]A person changing a 3 pin plug, never heard of this being illegal.

    [5]If illegal then it should be written as such and not left to interpretation.
    HI
    Again depends on location
    What can & cannot be done is covered in the various STATE "Electrical Acts" &" Regulations"
    Do a search for YOUR State & be prepared for a loooong read
    [1] No one can stop you from repairing your own, BUT,again if something went seriously wrong, Deep S*^t.
    [2]Yes, business, even one man, have to comply.
    [3]Caravans & boats have their own specific ADDITIONAL requiremenst to the "Wiring RULES" & are classed as" electrical work" in ALL states except Vic
    [4] Again you have not read the STATE" ELectrical Acts" OR "Regulations "
    That is FIXED wiring.
    The only connection Joe Blow is allowed to make is one which is made by means of a plug & socket.
    Simple reason, a wrongly wired or carelessly wired plug or socket could KILL.

    [5] Qld & I believe other states have enforced Hardware stores & those who sell electrical gear to put up clear warning on those Items classed as "electrical work" warning that they are not for DIY use ,by unlicensed persons .

    Perhaps some may not be aware that the Electrical Standards cover the HOW it shall be done.
    The different State ELectricals ACTS & Regulations define WHO can do what & under what conditions.,and what is covered[equipment, devices, appliance etc]
    Well worth reading for the relavent state.

    PeterQ

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    JoeBlow hardly would access or read such information. JoeBlow does what they have always done, my extension cord looks unsafe, I will put a new plug on it diligently following the supplied instruction. JoeBlow interprets fixed wiring as stuff behind the wall terminated into an appliance or fixed switch. Tell all this to JoeBlow and it all seems too vague. I do understand the point about mixing wires up but I guess we live in an age where people are now meant to be clueless about most things except what their employment dictates.

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    [QUOTE=phild01;948813] JoeBlow interprets fixed wiring as stuff behind the wall terminated into an appliance or fixed switch.

    This is why energy safe Victoria, and im sure its the same in other states really push the point that it is illegal to do any kind of wiring or electrical work. Peoples interpretations are often wrong. Im not saying changing a plug is hard, although some of the attempts I have seen prove otherwise, but like it or not the rules are the rules and just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can just ignore them and continue on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    JoeBlow interprets fixed wiring as stuff behind the wall terminated into an appliance or fixed switch..
    HI
    Which is why some of us try to inlighten them!!

    PeterQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    JoeBlow does what they have always done, my extension cord looks unsafe, I will put a new plug on it diligently following the supplied instruction.
    Is it illegal to change a plug?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddyjoy View Post
    Is it illegal to change a plug?
    IT requires TOOLS
    IN QLD
    Definately !
    IN ALL other states , I believe so !

    Unless you have passed some tests & obtain a limited licence.
    PeterQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtrack123 View Post
    IT requires TOOLS
    IN QLD
    Definately !
    IN ALL other states , I believe so !

    Unless you have passed some tests & obtain a limited licence.
    PeterQ
    That's crazy.

    Is it illegal build one of these or just illegal to plug it in?

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Yes, some of these rules are becoming a farce, probably because they like to update standards when they can't think of much to change.

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    Original quote by PeterQ:

    Unless you have passed some tests & obtain a limited licence.

    In Victoria it is illegal unless you have a full licence, you can obtain a disconnect / reconnect licence, but only if you have a reason not just because you want one. However this still wouldn't allow you to change a plug. That is an alteration.
    The rules exist not just to protect you but also the next unsuspecting person that comes along and gets caught out by something not done correctly

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    HI Muzza
    Goods to see Vic take that line.
    To bad they do not see wiring vans & motor home etc as "electrical work"

    I agree, even in Qld you have to have a reason for a limited license, typically such are for plumbers, Air con Mecs,etc , disconnecting for repair or replacing such things as hot water systems ,air cons ,stoves etc

    PeterQ

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    Ahhh, more rules created and perpetuated by electrical trades union lobbying, with no actual evidence base to support safety claims.
    DIY electrical house wiring details suitable for Australia - http://goo.gl/9d33T (PDF file)

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    Yeah after all it's not even dangerous. It's not like innocent people can die or anything. Sure, anyone can change a plug... Well most people can, anyone can change a power point. Anyone can do anything... If you don't know the theory and reasons why you're doing what your doing don't do it. If you copy what's there there's nothing to say that it was right in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey180 View Post
    Yeah after all it's not even dangerous. It's not like innocent people can die or anything. Sure, anyone can change a plug... Well most people can, anyone can change a power point. Anyone can do anything... If you don't know the theory and reasons why you're doing what your doing don't do it. If you copy what's there there's nothing to say that it was right in the first place.
    Hi
    Ditto
    Bad enough with the mistakes some who should know make.!!!

    PeterQ

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey180 View Post
    Sure, anyone can change a plug...
    In fact they do, in other OECD countries. Boy Scouts can even get merit badges for learning how to change a plug, en France...

    However, some countries, I will agree, have toughened up. In fact, in 2005 the UK tightened up it's regulation CONSIDERABLY. Since then, work done (by an electrician or DIY-er) MUST comply with their electrical code, and if you are a DIY'er, certain types of work need you to pop a note to your local council to tell them that you've done it.
    DIY electrical house wiring details suitable for Australia - http://goo.gl/9d33T (PDF file)

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    Default Legal to wire up garden lights connected to outdoor gpo?

    Err ok. If you say so. It's a plug ;-) let it go ;-)

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