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Loss of power???

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  1. #1
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    Default Loss of power???

    Hello everyone,
    I like everyone else,would like to send my condoloscence to tose that lost their love ones and possessions in the Vic's Fire.
    When I bought our old house, there is 3 phase power source in the garage!!!
    I just had a Ducted System put in my house about a month ago, a Mitsubishi Mr Slim PUH-5YKSA (3 Phase) the machine was awesome through those hot days and thank heavens for that because we just had a baby (3 wks old).
    The sparky (use by the AC installer) added another CB for the AC (top left of Pic)
    Now my probs is 2 weeeks ago during the hot weather my fridge power point died, so I use another power point with short extn cord, then 3-4 days ago just my Roller shutters for the kitchen died, then I went out to the garage my lights have been flickering and now died.
    I was wondering if it's the installation of the 3 phase that kills it???.
    please if anyone could... give me some clue as to why my power point and lights slowly dying out.


    [IMG]file:///D:/hieps%20stuff/hieps%20house/AC/Power%20box%201.JPG[/IMG]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails power-box-1.jpg   new-ac-c-b.jpg  
    Last edited by zacho; 13th Feb 2009 at 09:37 AM. Reason: more info

  2. #2
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Properly need more info

    When the power point died did others in the house die too
    IE is it just the one power point or the a whole circuit?

    You say there was 3-Phase in the shed assuming that the shed power comes from the house or is it the other way around there.

    Really hard to even contemplate whats going in without being there and doing some tests

  3. #3
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    Your situation sounds quite serious to me as there is a faulty connection and this faulty connection means heat can build up at the fault. It will not be directly connected with the 3 phase but could be when he added the extra CB he didn't tighten the connection.

    Even worse it could be unrelated to the installation and could be a failure of the neutral on the service side and the neutral return is going via the earth.

    Whatever the cause waste no time in getting an electricain as the fault could be potentially deadly.

  4. #4
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    I just re read your post and I revise my statement as it appears not to be a service side neutral problem but it is still serious and needs urgent attention.

  5. #5
    Golden Member nev25's Avatar
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    Could be a lot of things

    But you really need to look at updating your switch board

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    But you really need to look at updating your switch board
    I have to agree with that as it looks like it is sandwiched between two walls and would be difficult to work on but having said that it should still be functional.

    I'd hate to work on it.

  7. #7
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    Do you have 3 phase coming into the house from the street supply? Are your lights dim/dull? If so it could be a phase down which most likely would be at the top of the power pole.

  8. #8
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    Hi Guys

    If you look at the photo it looks like one of the surge arrestors has popped , im wondering if its related to the issue and theres a phase down ??....Really need to get a sparkie out to check...

    Frank

  9. #9
    Soldiers Earned Your Right To Free Speech watson's Avatar
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    Sparkie check required!!

    A little story though...
    BIL has a new house.........3 phase airconditioning system......3 stories....big house.
    During the hot weather of the past couple of weeks.....due to power restrictions......he's only had one phase at a time supplied........had to buy lots of fans (single phase).

    He's in Melbourne.....so it might also be relevant to your problem.

  10. #10
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    If Frankmc is correct, then it sounds like it could be a repeat of this....

    http://www.renovateforum.com/showthread.php?t=73781

    except it involves the A/C rather than the HWS

  11. #11
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    Wow, thats one big AC. Run current is about 8A, but the starting current is a whopping 67A!.
    While your switchboard is old, i dont see the need to replace it. The protection devices are all OK, but your wiring could be in need of upgrading. Older installations can have mains as small as 6mm2, which is only good for about 45A, depending on installation. Also, if the surround is timber, it no longer complies with AS3000 (must be non combustible).
    The fridge power point is probably not an individual circuit (ie fridge only), so i guess a wire or termination is crook. In hot weather, your fridge works harder, and cycles off (eg lets the wires cool down) less, gets hotter, and burns out/off at the point.
    Not sure about the roller shutters, but my guress is they are on the same circuit, lopped off the fridge point, and when the wires detached from the fridge point, they eventually separated, and broke the loop to the shutters. BIG problem, because there are now probably live wires in your wall, behind the fridge point.
    Your garage lights flickering is probably a separate issue. Do they only flicker when the AC is on? if so, its a simple voltage drop issue, caused by the load of the AC (added to the existing load of other power devices in your house). Have the light bulbs themselves blown? Or is there no power to the light outlets?

    The 3 phase shouldny be causing the issue, if your house is wired 3 phase, the load should be evely distributed acreoos the 3 phases (as much as possible), but if your fridge, lights and shutters are on the one phase, maybe there is something wrong with it.

    There is no way that the rolling blackouts could reduce you to 1 or 2 phases, as all network (outside your house) switching is done on all 3 phases. Other network issues can drop a phase, bubt this is generally picked up and rectified quickly by the supply authority.

    In short, you are going to need a sparky to come and have a good look at your installation, as there is at least one , if not more faults. while they may be safe (not life threatining) now, as you have seen, problems can sometimes take some time to develop (if my assumptions about your fridge and shutter situation are correct). its only a matter of time before that loose wire finds something conductive, or another wire, and causes severe problems. Not all problems will be protected by fuses/circuit breakers/RCD's.

    If you can supply some more info, it may be possible to fault find, but without being there, its difficult.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja View Post
    Wow, thats one big AC. Run current is about 8A, but the starting current is a whopping 67A!..
    Boy what have I missed.
    Starting current can vary between 3 and 5 times full load current that is a max 40 A

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Boy what have I missed.
    Starting current can vary between 3 and 5 times full load current that is a max 40 A
    Any reference? I was looking at the PK model. And there is a compressor, controller and fan unit current listed.

  14. #14
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    Default zacho

    Quote Originally Posted by nev25 View Post
    Properly need more info

    When the power point died did others in the house die too
    IE is it just the one power point or the a whole circuit?

    You say there was 3-Phase in the shed assuming that the shed power comes from the house or is it the other way around there.

    Really hard to even contemplate whats going in without being there and doing some tests
    As I went to the fridge to get some snacks from the Lounge I saw the microwave's LED (which sits on tops and share the same powerpoint as the Fridge ) flickering and as I opened the fridge the internal light flickered then died and the fridge makes the beep beep noise. so I grab a short Extension cord and plug it into another P/point.
    There is only certain p/points around the kitchen area that died, I think the Extractor Fan for the oven, kichen Roller Shutters and 3 other p/point. so I think these might be on the same loop???

    I think the Shed's 3 phase power comes from the house, from memory talking to the A/C guy he looks at the Board first prior to checking out the size of the house and said " ohhh you have 3 phase in your home?"
    Last edited by zacho; 13th Feb 2009 at 11:59 PM. Reason: more info needed

  15. #15
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    Default zacho

    Quote Originally Posted by rod1949 View Post
    Do you have 3 phase coming into the house from the street supply? Are your lights dim/dull? If so it could be a phase down which most likely would be at the top of the power pole.
    I am not sure I think so (don't know much about electric stufff) all my lights are normal

  16. #16
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    Default zacho

    Quote Originally Posted by benja View Post
    Not sure about the roller shutters, but my guess is they are on the same circuit,

    Your garage lights flickering is probably a separate issue. Do they only flicker when the AC is on? if so, its a simple voltage drop issue, caused by the load of the AC (added to the existing load of other power devices in your house). Have the light bulbs themselves blown? Or is there no power to the light outlets?

    but if your fridge, lights and shutters are on the one phase, maybe there is something wrong with it.

    If you can supply some more info, it may be possible to fault find, but without being there, its difficult.
    The Roller Shutters and Power Point might be on the same circuit because from memory the roller shutter sparky connected it to the P/point near by and at the moment all the p/point around that area (includes the extractor fan is dead as well.
    Garage light one with normal bulb and one fluoresence light both dead (Different switches). Sorry I didn't take notice at the time if the AC was on.
    Last edited by zacho; 14th Feb 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason: more info

  17. #17
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    OK looks like your fridge etc circuit is busted somewhere.
    Shed could have a similar issue, but on a different circuit.
    Seems like the incoming power to your house is OK, but the whole installation should be properly checked.

  18. #18
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    Thumbs up Zacho

    Hi guys sorry about that.
    Thank you all replying, I wilI take heed of your advice and will try and get a sparky that did some rewiring for a friend (who's about an hour from here) he's a bloke that would call a spade's a spade. Hopefully he can come by and have a look.

    You guys are freaking me out about live wire etc....

    All of this have just happened since the A/C was installed.

    I know how to change a light bulb and P/point and switches but that's it. the rest is OTT (over the top) so I stay away.
    I will try and let you guys know of the result.
    Thanks again for all of your contribution, very much appreciated.

  19. #19
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    Default Zacho

    Thanks Benja,
    just looking at the the circuit board and saw the bottom right CB 32A (which usually from electric ovens etc) which is for kitchen right??? I saw that the trip is still on, so there is a breakage some where yeah??

  20. #20
    Member Bullfright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacho View Post
    Hello everyone,
    I like everyone else,would like to send my condoloscence to tose that lost their love ones and possessions in the Vic's Fire.
    When I bought our old house, there is 3 phase power source in the garage!!!
    I just had a Ducted System put in my house about a month ago, a Mitsubishi Mr Slim PUH-5YKSA (3 Phase) the machine was awesome through those hot days and thank heavens for that because we just had a baby (3 wks old).
    The sparky (use by the AC installer) added another CB for the AC (top left of Pic)
    Now my probs is 2 weeeks ago during the hot weather my fridge power point died, so I use another power point with short extn cord, then 3-4 days ago just my Roller shutters for the kitchen died, then I went out to the garage my lights have been flickering and now died.
    I was wondering if it's the installation of the 3 phase that kills it???.
    please if anyone could... give me some clue as to why my power point and lights slowly dying out.


    [IMG]file:///D:/hieps%20stuff/hieps%20house/AC/Power%20box%201.JPG[/IMG]
    You didn't mention whether or not your AC is still running. If not, then you must be "Single phasing" and the faulty circuits are being back fed through other loads. If this is so, a lot of damage has already been done and I hope that it has been checked by now.
    Good luck with it.

  21. #21
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    Default Zacho

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfright View Post
    You didn't mention whether or not your AC is still running. If not, then you must be "Single phasing" and the faulty circuits are being back fed through other loads. If this is so, a lot of damage has already been done and I hope that it has been checked by now.
    Good luck with it.

    G'morning Bullfright , my AC is still running... just turned it on and it seems OK

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja View Post
    Any reference? I was looking at the PK model. And there is a compressor, controller and fan unit current listed.
    No I don't have any reference it was just a rule of thumb taught to us when we were doing our apprenticeship. I must admit motors had change significantly over the last few years iron had been reduced, copper reduced but until someone tells me differently I will still go with the 3 to 5 times full load current. Soft start has all eliminated high starting current on some AC units.

    As an addition I have a half HP motor my father bought in 1945 (still goes) and it is almost the same weight as my 2 hp compressor motor.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacho View Post
    I will try and let you guys know of the result.
    Thanks again for all of your contribution, very much appreciated.
    That would be good but I feel the fault is minor but can have far reaching consequences if not fixed.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacho View Post
    Thanks Benja,
    just looking at the the circuit board and saw the bottom right CB 32A (which usually from electric ovens etc) which is for kitchen right??? I saw that the trip is still on, so there is a breakage some where yeah??
    Breakage wont cause the trip normally, but if the active wire has contacted the neutral, earth or earthed out into part of your house, that would cause it. If that circuit isnt essential, i would leave it switched off until you can get it checked. If it has earthed out to part of your house, it may liven things up. You could get shocks off taps, showers, pretty much anything conductive (bear in mind wood can be conductive).
    Like i said, leave it off if you can, there is a good reason for a CB to trip, and if you cant easily determine why (like plugging in your hairdryer, toaster and kettle all at the same time, get it checked.

  25. #25
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    Default Bros & Benja

    Good morning guys.
    am going to have a sparky look at it mid-morning today, from briefing with him, he's going to do some testing and go from there.
    Thanks Benja I have turned it off.

  26. #26
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    Hi Zacho, What was the outcome of this?......... I'm dying to know!
    IAMNOWHERE
    My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be. http://www.woodworkforums.com/images...sad/screwy.gif

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