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Wiring new power point

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  1. #1
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    Default Wiring new power point

    Hi All,

    I am trying to replace existing power points with the new ones, however didn't realize new ones have separate components and was hoping someone here would know how to wire this (Pic 1 and 2 are existing)

    pic1.jpgpic2.jpgpic3.jpgpic4.jpg

    Thank you in advance

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    Did you pay for the new power point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    Did you pay for the new power point?
    I did pay for it however I have 20 days to return for full refund, however I like these hence I really want use them. If not I will have to swap them for ones I can change one for one

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    Well I suppose beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. You have a job ahead of you as it these are certified for use in Australia not Mexico where they were made you will have to get an electrician to connect the bridges and fit it.

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    Hi AJ, please change your profile location to be more specific, state level as a minimum. It helps for advice (regs, services, products etc).


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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Hi AJ, please change your profile location to be more specific, state level as a minimum. It helps for advice (regs, services, products etc).

    Thanks, Just did

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    You have a job ahead of you as it these are certified for use in Australia not Mexico where they were made you will have to get an electrician to connect the bridges and fit it.
    Looks like you need to cut a massive hole in the wall to enable it to fit the protruding switch blocks at the back...unless there is some sort of raiser block it attaches to.
    Politely suggest to source an electrician for this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    Looks like you need to cut a massive hole in the wall to enable it to fit the protruding switch blocks at the back...unless there is some sort of raiser block it attaches to.
    Politely suggest to source an electrician for this one.
    Thanks, I already figured out how to cut it into the wall (I plastered the whole room myself) , only missing thing is wiring so it actually works properly with switches (I can always just wire it so it works always on or just one switch , it comes with 2 plasterboard brackets )

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    It is made in Mexico, any Australian approval?
    Also figuring out the wiring is not that hard but as you are asking you really should engage a person who knows this stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    It is made in Mexico, any Australian approval?
    Also figuring out the wiring is not that hard but as you are asking you really should engage a person who knows this stuff.
    Yeah it is AUS approved. Wiring wise I can figure it our just have huge reno project on atm , and was hoping someone can assist so I dont have to spend hours on this as well

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajkula999 View Post
    Wiring wise I can figure it our
    I can always just wire it so it works always on or just one switch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajkula999 View Post
    I can always just wire it so it works always on or just one switch
    ....fail to see the humour when exposed to fatalities and houses burnt down as a result of non standard wiring and non compliant electrical fittings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    ....fail to see the humour when exposed to fatalities and houses burnt down as a result of non standard wiring and non compliant electrical fittings.
    Haha!!! yeah Electrical engineer who worked as IT for the last 15 years here, no fire or safety danger here , just official regulations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajkula999 View Post
    Haha!!! yeah Electrical engineer who worked as IT for the last 15 years here, no fire or safety danger here , just official regulations
    I was an IT worker too and a colleague died from electrocution working on a PC frame. Being an electrical engineer I'm sure you have a multimeter.

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    Is that normal tps coming out of the wall, sort of looks square!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I was an IT worker too and a colleague died from electrocution working on a PC frame. Being an electrical engineer I'm sure you have a multimeter.
    Actually no, kids got it few month ago (multimeter)

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Is that normal tps coming out of the wall, sort of looks square!?
    Yeah , just a normal connection ( I just want flip switches to work independently, everything else I can make work safety)

  18. #18
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    Go to Jaycar and buy a cheap multimeter and draw up a flowchart.

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    As an electrician i would highly recommend you return that to where ever it came from.
    Go and buy clipsal power points that are made in australia. HPM and Hager are also good.
    That looks like a total piece of rubish and i have never seen anything like it in australia.

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    If you have to ask how to connect it then the answer is call an electrician to do it.
    Official regulations are that that work must be carried out by a licensed electrician.

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    Agreed!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlesnake View Post
    As an electrician i would highly recommend you return that to where ever it came from.
    Go and buy clipsal power points that are made in australia. HPM and Hager are also good.
    That looks like a total piece of rubish and i have never seen anything like it in australia.
    I get what your are saying, I just wanted it for esthetics purposes (it is AUS approved though etc)

  23. #23
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    Just can't quite see the Australian approval markings on the mechs or mounting plate.

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    i personally dont even install the bunnings "tesla" brand powerpoints that people buy, and even though its passed QC, it just feels like garbage. Funny thing is that garbage costs more than just a 2000 series clipsal from the electrical wholesalers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlesnake View Post
    As an electrician i would highly recommend you return that to where ever it came from.
    Go and buy clipsal power points that are made in australia. HPM and Hager are also good.
    That looks like a total piece of rubish and i have never seen anything like it in australia.
    They are a restoration item, a reproduction of the bakelite switches from the Art Deco period.
    https://www.restorationonline.com.au...-110mm-x-205mm


    Made by.....Clipsal

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    interesting concept.

  27. #27
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    That is an interesting contraption.
    The individual powerpoint and switches seem to have separate mounting brackets that would fit metal boxes used in full brick installations. They must be left over from obsolete models. So they cobbled them together and smacked them on an oversized plastic plate without any bridges.
    How did they pass certification? They are so crude, almost homemade.
    Return them and by Clipsal. They have some fancy models different from the standard one if you are after alternative look.

    As for wiring them, they are no different from any other outlet and switch combination from the sixties.
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  28. #28
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    So the mechs are clipsal but what of the bakelite face, would that need approval as well!

  29. #29
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    1. Art Deco Switches and Power Points are made with American fittings and will not fit standard Australian Mounting Boxes. Either a Wall Box or Mounting Bracket will be needed for installation, these are available to add to your order above.

    Garbage regardless.
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    So the mechs are clipsal but what of the bakelite face, would that need approval as well!
    Are they Clipsal ?, nothing like this appears in the Clipsal catalogues, I think they are a cheap knock off being touted as a Clipsal product.

    It appears to be this one, it says Made in Australia ??

    https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/...deco-mounting/
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Are they Clipsal ?, nothing like this appears in the Clipsal catalogues, I think they are a cheap knock off being touted as a Clipsal product.

    It appears to be this one, it says Made in Australia ??

    https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/...deco-mounting/
    Yes they are Clipsal, most likely not in the catalog as they do not sell the units and are more than likely made under a licensing agreement for one of the restoration suppliers.
    Closer image showing the socket assembly.
    https://www.perioddetails.com.au/product/60-series-single-socket-mechanism/


    If you still do not believe visit one of the restoration outlets and have a closer look in person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Yes they are Clipsal, most likely not in the catalog as they do not sell the units and are more than likely made under a licensing agreement for one of the restoration suppliers.
    Closer image showing the socket assembly.
    https://www.perioddetails.com.au/product/60-series-single-socket-mechanism/


    If you still do not believe visit one of the restoration outlets and have a closer look in person.
    While the socket shown in https://www.perioddetails.com.au/pro...ket-mechanism/ and
    the rear view of the assembly (and "Plaster Bracket Kit") shown in https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/...deco-mounting/ shows such sockets and switches using set back terminals with "Set-Screws" (in accord with Australian standards),
    the switches shown in Image 4 of Post #1 are made to North American standards - where the toggle switch is mounted on a metal "yoke" (which requires Earthing - or Grounding) and
    the Screw Terminals are exposed at the sides of the switch, require that only one solid conductor be installed under each terminal screw, in a clockwise "Shepherds Crook" connection
    (and, hence, are not suitable for use with stranded nor with multiple conductors.)

    Because of the above, while the switches and sockets shown in above references may be Clipsal products, I strongly doubt that the switches shown in Image 4 of Post #1 have any association with Clipsal or Australian standards!

    (Note the difference between the plastic "yoke" used on the sockets and the metal "yoke" used on the switches pictured in Image 4 of Post #1.
    Also, the switches use the "Black" and "Brass" colouration on the screws, which indicates "Line" and "Switched Line" connections respectively in North America.
    It is "interesting" that the switches provided are actually SPDT switches - as is usual with Australian "Lighting" circuits but NOT the "norm" in North America.)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
    While the socket shown in https://www.perioddetails.com.au/pro...ket-mechanism/ and
    the rear view of the assembly (and "Plaster Bracket Kit") shown in https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/...deco-mounting/ shows such sockets and switches using set back terminals with "Set-Screws" (in accord with Australian standards),
    the switches shown in Image 4 of Post #1 are made to North American standards - where the toggle switch is mounted on a metal "yoke" (which requires Earthing - or Grounding) and
    the Screw Terminals are exposed at the sides of the switch, require that only one solid conductor be installed under each terminal screw, in a clockwise "Shepherds Crook" connection
    (and, hence, are not suitable for use with stranded nor with multiple conductors.)

    Because of the above, while the switches and sockets shown in above references may be Clipsal products, I strongly doubt that the switches shown in Image 4 of Post #1 have any association with Clipsal or Australian standards!

    (Note the difference between the plastic "yoke" used on the sockets and the metal "yoke" used on the switches pictured in Image 4 of Post #1.
    Also, the switches use the "Black" and "Brass" colouration on the screws, which indicates "Line" and "Switched Line" connections respectively in North America.
    It is "interesting" that the switches provided are actually SPDT switches - as is usual with Australian "Lighting" circuits but NOT the "norm" in North America.)

    Yep the switches have a yoke, seen here
    https://www.schots.com.au/60-series-...nism-only.html

    Here is the company that make the assembly for sale in Australia
    https://classicelectric.com.au/
    I am sure if anyone is concerned of their suitability for use in Australia they could contact them to get it clarified.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post

    Because of the above, while the switches and sockets shown in above references may be Clipsal products, I strongly doubt that the switches shown in Image 4 of Post #1 have any association with Clipsal or Australian standards!
    Somewhat obvious then.

  35. #35
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    The switches have a yoke or a joke?
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    1. Art Deco Switches and Power Points are made with American fittings and will not fit standard Australian Mounting Boxes. Either a Wall Box or Mounting Bracket will be needed for installation, these are available to add to your order above.
    North American electrical fittings will fit into Australian "Mounting Boxes" (and vice versa), because the Australian standard sizes for these devices were copied from US practice (not UK practice) during the 1930s, when the "3-Pin" Australian "Plug/Socket" was adopted.

    The products pictured in this thread to date are replicas of some of the earliest products of this nature produced in Australia.
    (See https://cool386.com/plug/plug.html )

    This is so, even down to the diameter and the "threads per inch" used on the screws which secure the "Wall Plates" to the "Mounting Boxes".
    (The dimensions of these screws were not changed when Australia "metricated" - unlike in the UK where the size/threads of similar screws were changed to Metric - leading to replacement problems.)
    In North America, these screws are defined as being #6 gauge (whatever that means) with 32 threads per inch of shaft - of what "profile" I know not.
    (The closest "British Standard" to this may be 1/8" Whitworth, but this has 40 threads per inch and will not fit.)

    However, while retaining the mounting box and screw dimensions, Australian manufactures very quickly improved on the design of these products in that they made the connections "inset" - using "set-screws" (instead of exposed screws on the sides of the devices) - and removed the metal yoke, which required an Earth connection, substituting instead an all-plastic construction.
    Because of this, it is surprising that the accessible screws pictured in these "vintage" devices would be "allowed". (Hence, I doubt if they really are "approved" for use in Australia.)

    Post WWII, Australian Socket Outlets and their required Switches became "integrated" together - and with their "Wall Plates" - as also happened in the UK, where the Switch was incorporated but is not required by UK "Regulations".

    Australian manufacturers also developed the "Rocker Switch" for "lighting" purposes, to the extent that up to 6 of such "mechanisms" can be fitted into one "Wall-Plate" of exactly the same dimensions that in North America can be used for only 1 Toggle Switch.
    The fact that recessed "set-screw" multi-conductor connections rather than "side-screw" single-conductor connections are involved plays no small part in this "miniaturization".

    Because of the absence of a metal "yoke", (unlike North America, the UK - and, possibly, elsewhere) there is no need for any Earth connection (nor any possibility of connecting it) at any "Light Switch" in Australia - nor in New Zealand, which "came along" with Australia.


    While there is no need to Earth any Switch/Socket Outlet "metal work" in Australia (because of the insulated design of the devices concerned),
    since the 1960s, it has been a "requirement" that the metal screw affixing the wall plate may not be touched by a "standard finger" so that the screw head should be both "recessed" and covered - by (now) a wall-plate cover or (earlier) a "Screw-Cover", such as https://shop.cnw.com.au/cnw/en/AUD/A...TE/p/CLI9WEH19

    Because of this, I wounder how such "exposed" screws would be "allowed" - certainly on any device which required a "yoke" to be Earthed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Yep the switches have a yoke, seen here
    https://www.schots.com.au/60-series-...nism-only.html
    With rather obvious North American "side" connections !
    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Here is the company that make the assembly for sale in Australia
    https://classicelectric.com.au/
    I am sure if anyone is concerned of their suitability for use in Australia they could contact them to get it clarified.
    However, the connections shown in the latter example - when one gets to them - are inset "Set Screw" connections and not the North American "side" connections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
    However, where are the connections shown in the latter example?
    There are no pictures that show what you want, Classic Electric is the company that manufactures the reproduction Art Deco switch assembly sold through multiple resellers and shown in the OP.
    If anyone wanted clarification on the approvals for use in Australia that would be the best starting point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post

    Because of this, it is surprising that the accessible screws pictured in these "vintage" devices would be "allowed". (Hence, I doubt if they really are "approved" for use in Australia.)
    I also wondered about this, as having twice had electrical inspectors deny approval because screws in GPO's had no plugs/caps or cover plates fitted.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne;1130622However, the connections shown in the latter example - when one gets to them - [B
    are[/B] inset "Set Screw" connections and not the North American "side" connections.

    Replied before you clarified your statement, not sure where you get the pictures that show those details for the 64 or 65 series on that site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Replied before you clarified your statement, not sure where you get the pictures that show those details for the 64 or 65 series on that site.
    To what do you refer as 64 or 65 series on what site?
    I was referring to https://classicelectric.com.au/ as you quoted in Post #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
    To what do you refer as 64 or 65 series on what site?
    I was referring to https://classicelectric.com.au/ as you quoted in Post #33
    Classic Electric do many different styles, go to their products, the reproduction Bakelite Art Deco GPO’s are series 64 (single) and 65 (double).
    The one in the OP is a 65W.

    https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/65-series-art-deco-bakelite-double-power-point

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Classic Electric do many different styles, go to their products, the reproduction Bakelite Art Deco GPO’s are series 64 (single) and 65 (double).
    The one in the OP is a 65W.

    https://classicelectric.com.au/shop/65-series-art-deco-bakelite-double-power-point
    And how do we see the rear connections of these products (and why are you pushing them?)
    Of course, it is interesting that the products shown in the "initial picture(s)" show face-plates held on by screws with "Insulated Caps", as were required "back" in the 1960s (or so) - before sunken screws (with screw-covers) became the "norm".

    (I still have the "tools" [from two different manufacturers - and often supplied with the "products"] to attach to those "heads", without causing the significant damage which might be caused by using ordinary pliers - or with the difficulty of just using fingers.
    While it may not be easy to see that which is on the inside of these tools, the one on the Left (with the Reamer for clearing the threads in "C" Plates etc.) has a "finer" set of "fins" than the one on the Right
    This IS indicated by their external appearance.)
    remer-tool.jpg

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    Yes well aware of the tools, I have used them and could probably dig some out if I looked. Don’t see the relevance in the discussions.

    Not pushing them at all, just pointing out that the manufacturer is Australian based and made for the Australian market and providing information on where someone should direct questions regarding the compliance or suitability. Rather than relying on statements on a forum that the products do not meet Australian standards.

    My responses regarding the rear connections were replies to your statements about those connections using direct quotes from my posts.

    Enough said from me in this thread, use the links and information I provided however you want.

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