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Building a verandah after a deck has been built

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  1. #1
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    Default Building a verandah after a deck has been built

    Hello all,

    I generally frequent another popular building forum but I hope someone would be able to help here with a question.

    I plan to build a particularly big deck 40m2 within 6 weeks. The problem is is that if I were to go through the planning shinnanigans I would not get it done in time for our engagement. So I would like to build a deck only now and do the plans for a verandah and build later.

    So, The deck will be situated on the side of the house closest to the boundary of a street (we sit on a corner block). The deck will extend 4.2m to the fence with no gap to spare. The deck is within the requirements of not needing a permit.

    I am hoping to not make work that much harder later when I plan to apply for a permit and build a verandah to go over the deck and was wondering:

    1.) Has anyone come across building a verandah after a deck and how did you manage to conform to council req's?
    2.) I envisage that I will have to dig new post holes 450dia x 900mm. Will the engineer allow this due to angle of repose and the interference of deck footings vs. verandah footings?

    I live in West Sub Melbourne. Thanks a million!

  2. #2
    4K Club Member ringtail's Avatar
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    Geez, you guys have some strange rules down there. Are you sure you dont need any permits ? I did a quick search and found out that you will need an owner builder permit ( if DIY ) because the value will be over $ 12000, and surely you cant build that close to the boundary without a siting variation ( relaxation) from council ?

  3. #3
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    Even confirmed it with the council. Under 800mm and not attached to the house the council (Brimbank City) does not care. I think part of it helps that we ain't in a cyclonic area.

    So does anyone have experience in building a verandah/pergola after a deck?

  4. #4
    4K Club Member ringtail's Avatar
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    Council laws differ to state laws. Even if the council says ok, the state ( building commision) will ask you to comply with its rules aswell. My advice is to do it once, do it properly. Build it all in one go.

  5. #5
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    The things we do for love hey? I refer to the engagement. Congrats.

    If you plan to build a verandah, build one.

    If your beloved wants space to host a party, hire a tent.

  6. #6
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    zbooynick, I did exactly the same thing. Recommend putting in the post into stirups under the deck even if you're only doing the deck first. Firstly, more sturdy putting the post into concrete foundation and looks better

  7. #7
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    Hi there z

    Definately draw up the plans for the deck and the verandah in one go, get the council out to inspect your footings then you are sweet to go. I built my deck 1st then a year later decided to build the verandah what a headache digging new 750x450x450 holes between joists 450 wide. I already had the footings there for the verandah ( did them same time as I did the deck footings) but because they want to site the depth I had to either re dig or dig beside the footings to justify the depth and my original footings only went down 650 not 750 like they requested so it was re dig time. And after all that the guy was only here for 2 mins but he was happy with the new footings. I am also in brimbank (brimbank gardens) so am under the same council guidelines, if you want to see a copy of my plans I drew up just let me know. Also be careful because I know 100% that you have to be at least 1 metre away from the fenceline for your verandah, not sure about the deck.

    Cheers
    Mike

  8. #8
    4K Club Member ringtail's Avatar
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    Thats what I would have thought with the boundary clearance pastrychef. Oh BTW, a veranda is a roofed deck, so what you are proposing to built is deck that will later have a roof to create a veranda. Sorry, just been a smartar$e . Just make your footings big, 900 x 450 minimum, then when you are ready for the roof, remove a board or two and drop the new posts onto the bearer/s with a halfing joint, 2 x M12 bolts, good to go. Just make your bearer big enough to take roof load, or drop the new posts on top of the old posts with a half joint.

  9. #9
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    I agree that the attaching your posts to bearer is easiest but council will not have a bar of it. Brimbank guys required own footings for posts or posts to be Continous no add ons(believe me I tried the lap joint with 2 m10s no go as far as they said)

    But in thinking along those lines you could have footings with stirrups done now and then lift your last couple of foot of decking and slip your post in the stirrups no worries?.

    I'm sure others will have other versions of how you can do it

    Cheers

    MB

  10. #10
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    If you have a look at the post support 3rd from the right in the pics in this attachment, what I would do is box up a concrete pillar from in ground, to just below the decking level.

    Build your deck and when ready, cut a square out of the deck boards, and bolt your legitimate veranda post support to this pre existing foundation.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  11. #11
    4K Club Member ringtail's Avatar
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    Could you just prop the deck up and remove whatever old posts you need to completely and drop the new ones in and bolt to the existing stirrups ? Wow, thats a bit crap of the council eh. Its pretty common practice up here to use a bottom post and then a separate top post - and theses are high set decks aswell. Its not my preferred method of building but its quiet common.

  12. #12
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    Let's just say (thinking loadly).

    There are 5 weekends to build the deck and roofed verandah with some nights to spare and a couple of nights here and there.

    Weekend 0 - Private surveyor takes 1-2 days to approve.
    Weekend 1 - Dig all of the holes with a Dingo with an auger attachment. Fill 3 of 4 rows of holes with concrete and place the stirrups in for the deck. Leave the last row of holes for the inspector to check during the week. Once checked, fill the holes for the uprights.
    Weekend 2 - Build the roofed verandah. Have permit completed during the week.
    Weekend 3 - Because the footings and uprights have been spec'd to far more than required, attached the 4th row of deck bearers to the posts.
    Weekend 4 - Lay the joists and start the decking. Spend all week laying the deck.
    Weekend 5 - Complete the decking.

    The surveyor said that I don't need an engineer if it's pretty straight forward. I can build the framing straight to the boundary (too the street) but the roofing must stop 57cm away. He mentioned to get a council dispensation in the mean time. Once everything has been approved and the council dispensation approved, add the addition and install a gutter.

  13. #13
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    Usually they want to check teh framing stage, before decking goes down.

    Rain?

    Gutter connected to stormwater?
    W/e 2 could you frame and install the roof in that time

  14. #14
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    Yep to have the roof done by week 2. Get it ticked off. Then attach the deck bearer.

    Decking would be separate to the roof for permit purposes.

  15. #15
    4K Club Member ringtail's Avatar
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    And I thought QLD was backwards. Do you not have private certifiers down there ?

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