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New deck detailed summary - please review!

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  1. #1
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    Default New deck detailed summary - please review!

    Hi all,

    I think I've read just about every post in this section to get to this point - so thanks to everyone's advice so far.. Below are the details of the deck I'm about to build, but wanted to run it by the guru's here to make sure I'm not doing anything crazy. The deck is elevated around a pole home less than 500 m in a straight line from the ocean.

    I've got a few questions still that I'm hoping someone can help me with? I've highlighted them orange

    I'm replacing the old treated pine deck which was at the end of it's life, but using the existing treated pine joists that are in reasonable condition. The old deck was nailed and the nails were all rusted and there's plenty still in the joists unfortunately. I've squared off the ends and put new barge boards so I have a straight edge to work off, and also put blocking in to square up the joists and stiffen up the entire deck. The old joists have been levelled (to the detriment of my cheap electric planer), and painted with bituminous paint. It's probably over kill but I'm going to put protectdeck on as well with stainless steel staples.


    Materials
    Re-using existing joists as above.
    140 x 22 blackbutt
    Blackbutt pre-oild with Cutek autumntone front and back.
    Ends to be squared with 1 degree undercut, and slightly rounded off to match the rest of the board profile.

    Screws
    14G x 65 mm bugle head hex drive - 316 SS. <--- is 14 G excessive or would 12 G be sufficient?
    Pre-drilled and counter sunk with clever tool

    Screw position

    12 mm from cut end (is that enough? )
    20 mm from long edge (is that reasonable?)

    Also, with 12 or 14 G screws going in to a 45 mm joist, should I be putting them at a slight angle towards each other at the butt joints? Just worried about them blowing out the side?

    Spacing
    The deck is over a roof sklllion roof below in places, so going to be generous with the spacing - 7-8 mm.


    Anything I've missed?

    Thanks in advance!

    I'll post photo's once it's done.

    Cheers,
    Scott

  2. #2
    Golden Member havabeer's Avatar
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    pics?

    i would have thought 14g is way over kill, even 12g is probably a bit much. also buy quality screws, not bunnings zenith brand
    Remember if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty03 View Post
    Hi all,

    I think I've read just about every post in this section to get to this point - so thanks to everyone's advice so far.. Below are the details of the deck I'm about to build, but wanted to run it by the guru's here to make sure I'm not doing anything crazy. The deck is elevated around a pole home less than 500 m in a straight line from the ocean.

    I've got a few questions still that I'm hoping someone can help me with? I've highlighted them orange

    I'm replacing the old treated pine deck which was at the end of it's life, but using the existing treated pine joists that are in reasonable condition. The old deck was nailed and the nails were all rusted and there's plenty still in the joists unfortunately. I've squared off the ends and put new barge boards so I have a straight edge to work off, and also put blocking in to square up the joists and stiffen up the entire deck. The old joists have been levelled (to the detriment of my cheap electric planer), and painted with bituminous paint. It's probably over kill but I'm going to put protectdeck on as well with stainless steel staples.


    Materials
    Re-using existing joists as above.
    140 x 22 blackbutt

    If you have done the research you say you have you should know that 140 x 22 is strongly advised against, 30mm min. for boards over 90ish...Blackbutt is also strongly advised against.

    Blackbutt pre-oild with Cutek Autumntone front and back.

    Pre-oil with Cutek Wood Preservative on all sides then redo when cut ends to fit, then use your Autumntone twice, keeping in mind that real oil base products from any manufacturer will take longer to dry in the middle of winter..unless they stuff them up by adding to much dryers.

    Ends to be squared with 1 degree undercut, and slightly rounded off to match the rest of the board profile.

    If you can manage under cut with every board your a better man than me Gunga Din... unless your deck is minuscule and you have a top of the line miter saw that will easily adjust left right otherwise you have to turn every board around. Just make sure your boards are straight and you can cut square ....practice.

    Screws
    14G x 65 mm bugle head hex drive - 316 SS. <--- is 14 G excessive or would 12 G be sufficient?
    Pre-drilled and counter sunk with clever tool

    Screw position

    12 mm from cut end (is that enough? )
    20 mm from long edge (is that reasonable?)

    Also, with 12 or 14 G screws going in to a 45 mm joist, should I be putting them at a slight angle towards each other at the butt joints? Just worried about them blowing out the side?

    Research more. Don't like 45mm joist

    Spacing
    The deck is over a roof sklllion roof below in places, so going to be generous with the spacing - 7-8 mm.

    Less width boards (as advised above) will only need 5mm max.


    Anything I've missed?

    Heaps...do more research.

    Thanks in advance!

    I'll post photo's once it's done.

    Cheers,
    Scott
    Better to spend the time to really know what you are about to do than live through years of regret.
    I may not be a "decking " Guru, but have been working with wood since 15yo and built plenty of different structures and now @ 72 still building, furniture making and slabbing logs with a chainsaw.

    And what havabeer said.

  4. #4
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    FWIW 14g is correct for 140 wide boards - std batten screw size and gives the look of a marine boardwalk - also the std for council walkways (though on thicker timber) - its about the look as much as anthing - trims or small screws look a bit aneamic on wide boards

  5. #5
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Screw choice is a bit subjective. 14g is overkill, but if you like it ... I personally prefer smaller screws yet I have used 14g for jetty and pontoon deck.
    Spacing 12 mm from the end seems too close for larger screws. 20mm from the side is ok. Angle the butt end screws is mandatory, but ... a 14g screw because of the wide head will show it is crooked.
    However, what I think is more important is your second hand joist and your choice of timber for the deck. Especially if there are cracks along the joist and between rusted nail holes
    Old treated pine joist with rotted nails in them are junk. Toss them and buy new joist.
    Blackbutt is about the worse timber choice for deck. Buy Spotted Gum, or Jarra. Blackbutt cracks, and is all over a poor choice that will demand constant maintenance.

    You don't want to spend all that money to end up with a crap deck and rotting joist that give the screws no hold.
    You didn't mention bearers and post. What state are they in?

    In my limited experience, every deck I attempted to renovate by half, ended up demolished and built from scratch.

    PS
    Make sure you buy select or standard grade, not "feature"
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by havabeer

    i would have thought 14g is way over kill, even 12g is probably a bit much. also buy quality screws, not bunnings zenith brand




    Thanks for that. Yes I was going to get from ANZOR, I have an account through work I can use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Screw choice is a bit subjective. 14g is overkill, but if you like it ... I personally prefer smaller screws yet I have used 14g for jetty and pontoon deck.
    Spacing 12 mm from the end seems too close for larger screws. 20mm from the side is ok. Angle the butt end screws is mandatory, but ... a 14g screw because of the wide head will show it is crooked.
    However, what I think is more important is your second hand joist and your choice of timber for the deck. Especially if there are cracks along the joist and between rusted nail holes
    Old treated pine joist with rotted nails in them are junk. Toss them and buy new joist.
    Blackbutt is about the worse timber choice for deck. Buy Spotted Gum, or Jarra. Blackbutt cracks, and is all over a poor choice that will demand constant maintenance.

    You don't want to spend all that money to end up with a crap deck and rotting joist that give the screws no hold.
    You didn't mention bearers and post. What state are they in?

    In my limited experience, every deck I attempted to renovate by half, ended up demolished and built from scratch.

    PS
    Make sure you buy select or standard grade, not "feature"
    Thanks Marc for the response and information on the spacing.

    I'm not too passionate about the size, if 12 G will do it, then I'm happy with that, and they won't be quote as noticeable as the butt end if they are on a bit of an angle.

    Posts and bearers are in good condition. Joists I have replaced all the really bad ones, but about half of them are tied in to the house, flashed and sealed up which was beyond my skill level to replace. The budget didn't allow for a carpenter to help me replace all the joists so I'll likely come to regret this.

    You are the first person I've heard say that about Blackbutt - I wish I'd posted earlier as I've already purchased it! It looks good now and the wife is happy (it was her choice).

    Lastly, is your standard vs feature comment with respect to fasteners?

  7. #7
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    No, about the grade of the decking timber.
    I suppose if you replaced all the bad ones ... then it will be OK.

    Post some pictures of your progress.
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  8. #8
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    "You are the first person I've heard say that about Blackbutt"....1 July?

    So you didn't read my post?
    June 30; "...Blackbutt is also strongly advised against."

    Why do i bother, people can't take honest, straight forward critique anymore..is it not politically correct?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushy View Post
    "You are the first person I've heard say that about Blackbutt"....1 July?

    So you didn't read my post?
    June 30; "...Blackbutt is also strongly advised against."

    Why do i bother, people can't take honest, straight forward critique anymore..is it not politically correct?
    Hi Bushy,

    My sincerest apologies, I'm more than happy to take honest, straight forward critique, I simply didn't see your comments throughout the text of mine you quoted.

    I've read them all now. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I hadn't considered having to switch the mitre saw back and forward for each board - that would be painful. And good tip on re-oiling the cut ends.

    Cheers,
    Scott

  10. #10
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Well ... come on ... with that name its days are counted
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  11. #11
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    What exactly are you saying Marc?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushy View Post
    What exactly are you saying Marc?
    I wasn't sure either...

  13. #13
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    Too many red ones??

  14. #14
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Not too complicated. there are calls to change the name of Blacktown, how much worse is Blackbutt?
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  15. #15
    Seasoned DIY droog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Not too complicated. there are calls to change the name of Blacktown, how much worse is Blackbutt?
    Not quite as bad as Coon cheese. ��

  16. #16
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty03 View Post



    You are the first person I've heard say that about Blackbutt - I wish I'd posted earlier as I've already purchased it! It looks good now and the wife is happy (it was her choice).
    I have been saying this for years, Blackbutt is perfect inside, it's a beautiful timber, or a screen undercover.
    As decking boards I would rate it as the worst timber you could choose, yes it does look fantastic when new, but it won't stay that way for long.

    Much higher maintenance than any other timber out there, it tends to split within a short time on an exposed deck.
    Any decks I do, I always steer them away from Blackbutt, there are other alternates that look similar colour without the maintenance problems.

    I'm not a fan of painting timbers, I would rather see the real timber, I once put blackbutt handrails on one of my own decks, thinking is should be ok it's only the handrail.

    Within 18 months I had painted them as the cracking etc just drove me nuts, I used to clean and oil it every 4-6 months
    Below is Northern Box, it has the looks of Blackbutt without the leeching, or splitting or maintenance, it's a beautiful timber.

    This is just after laying, cleaning it before oiling

    nb-1.jpg

    nb.jpg
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  17. #17
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Yes, I have 25m of veranda railing in Blackbutt 140x45. It is covered with fine cracking, regardless of the amount of oiling. I'll give it another chance and sand it with an orbital ... if that fails, next is Dulux.
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  18. #18
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Yes, blackbutt outside, poor choice.

  19. #19
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushy View Post
    Why do i bother, people can't take honest, straight forward critique anymore..is it not politically correct?
    Hi Bushy ... I didn't see your comments the first time and couldn't find them when looking the second time. You camouflaged them real well using same font and colour.
    I try to avoid responding inside a quote but if I do so, I try to highlight the reply as to leave no doubt
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  20. #20
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi Bushy ... I didn't see your comments the first time and couldn't find them when looking the second time. You camouflaged them real well using same font and colour.
    I try to avoid responding inside a quote but if I do so, I try to highlight the reply as to live no doubt
    Marc, Why do you live with no doubt ?
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  21. #21
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Marc, Why do you live with no doubt ?
    Well I do live with no doubts ... most of the time. Not always.

    There, edited ... bloody homophones.
    Science is never settled,
    it advances one funeral at the time.
    Max Planck

  22. #22
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    I've got a load of blackbutt pergolas around the house in recycled brushed - none of it seem to have split (200/50) - whats the alternative?
    Eg cant get f27 in anything other than balckbutt

  23. #23
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    For the joists you can't replace, can you screw new joists to the side of them? Assuming it's only the top surface of the old joists that are degraded, then the new joists in parallel will give you a good solid surface to screw the decking boards into.

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