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Spa n Deck Fail

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  1. #1
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    Default Spa n Deck Fail

    Freshly sanded spotted gum, first 2 coats went on fine, 3rd coat however went blotchy and ruined the deck. Thankfully I only did 15 sqm out of 100 but very dissappointed as I'll have to sand it all off again.
    Followed all instructions, waiting 2 hours between coats. Spoke to Floods tech support and supposedly I applied the last coat "too late in the day" as it was "too cold" and didn't dry in time. I'm in Brisbane and while I finished just after sunset the temperature was still around 20 degrees which baffles me how this is "too cold". Oh well, I don't like the color anyway, its a deep red which looks nothing like the sample picture on the tin. I've used the Merbau tint before and this Jarrah tint looked indentical. I get the feeling all the Spa N Deck tints are based on red/orange base. I mean you get this stuff on your hands and its bright orange.

    Well $200 down the drain and another day of sanding then trying to figure out what to oil to choose. Tried some sample pots of Integrain Ultradeck Oil (too red) and Ultradeck stain (too paint like) and some left over Sikkens BLX-Pro I had which doesn't look too bad but costs a fortune. I'd probably like to go with a traditional oil but wife wants a "darker" deck which I dont think an oil will achieve. Sigh. Oh, this deck is covered and only partially gets some winter sun, full shade in summer.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deck.jpg  

  2. #2
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    I no longer reckon Intergrain Ultradeck is as good as it once was, I wouldn't recommend it, then again I know of nothing that is much good anyway all requiring regular maintenance. I believe Metrix favours Cabots oiled based.

    You might find what you have there will be okay after a few months and deal with it the next time it requires re-coating. Sure it could look better but I would leave it and save the effort and money until next time.

  3. #3
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    Plucka I feel your aggravation. Many who follow this decking forum will know that I used Spa&deck extensively. I agree that most the colours are based on red brown. I mainly used Jarrah but occasionally walnut on spotted gum. Let me say ,although at this time of the year (June)I would do my best to complete my last coating by 4pm I would agree that your deck was not too cold. I had this same thing happen to me on several occasions. Over the time I used Spa&Deck from 2005-2020 I saw many changes take place. When it was made by a small owner if I had any issues (and I never had this issue that your photo shows) I could call&talk to the company and get things resolved quickly. They actually listened to what I was explaining. In 2016 or so the company was sold to PPG . From that point on I started having a lot of hassles. ie I purchased to 10 litre cans of walnut only to open&find Jarrah. when I called &talked to the TECHS in Sydney I might as well have spoken to the clients cat. Talking to them always required a form to be filled in for "investigation". Months later the matter is still not resolved. Some 6 months later they agreed that the wrong colour had been put into 100x 10 litre cans sent all over .

    The first time I had the mottling was when applied to a section of deck where the coating was in good shape to begin with. Fortunately it was only in a very small zone. I heavily discounted the job and it was under where the client placed their outside sofa furniture. They were happy with the discount and not too fussed. I had never seen this problem prior and it occurred without me seeing it as I had moved on the deck away to exit. I thought it was a blip. It then happened on another deck and it was where the coating was pretty good. This time I waited for it and found that I had to use a clean applicator to wipe it gently. I then dried without blemish.
    I went to my local PPG paint store where I purchased the spa&deck. I explained it to the store manager & he was sympathetic . The next time I thought it may happen I was waiting for it and as soon as it happened I stopped. I called the store manager who had now become the PPG field representative. He came straight over &HE called the Sydney tech boys and they told him to file a complaint for investigation. He told them that we were still waiting on a previous investigation from 4 months ago. I can honestly say all of this just fell on totally deaf ears and these PPG tech folks do not really care.

    From this point I realized I was totally on my own when using this product.Up until this time I had used some 3000 litres without issues. I know you followed the label with 2 hour recoats . I used to wait for 4 hours . However I really think the issue is the coating formula has been altered on many occasions and PPG truly do not want to address this problem and they don't care.
    Sorry for the length of this tirade but I became very frustrated in my dealings with what was a great product. In June of 2019 I pulled up stumps and joined the world of retired.

    I doubt that the tech folks from PPG spa&deck read this forum but if they do I sincerely doubt that they would respond. I have used the Sikkens BLX pro at my house. Yes it is pricey ( but Sikkens always has been). I found the BLX-pro very easy to apply, dries quickly, cleans up with water easily and a nice finish. It has 5 shades with several being darker. I used light OAK on merbau and was please with the result. I did not have the problem of the coating separating. I don't know the technical term .

    good luck

  4. #4
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    Thanks for your input jimj. I get the feeling the 2nd coat was not dry enough before I applied the 3rd, even though they say 1-2 hours and I waited 2 I feel like it should have been longer or the next day.
    The funny part is I read a review on ProductReview about a guy complaining about Spa n Deck getting the same blotchyness. Flood told him the reason is because he did not apply all 3 coats in one day as he did the third coat the following day, which is laughable because that is the opposite of what they told me in that I should have waited.

    Anyway in the end it didnt matter as we dont like the colour anyway, its a beetroot red and does not look natural at all. I previously used Spa n Deck Merbau on Merbau and was very happy with it so this was a shame. I'm just glad I only did 15sqm instead of 50 or 100 before learning this.

    I'm discovering that getting a nice colour on spotted gum is a challenge. I've tried about 7 different samples today. I tried some left over Spa n Deck Merabu and it turned a horrible orange colour, unlike how nice it was on the Merbau deck. I then tried Ultradeck stain, way too dark and paint like, then some left over BLX Pro, not bad but too poo brown, then 2 colours of ultradeck oil (waterbased), Jarrah too red, then finally in the Merbau, which I think finally I found a winner. So Ultradeck Oil in the Merbau seems the next step. I am curious how they call it an oil though when its not an oil at all but waterbased.

    Oh I can highly recommend the orbital floor sander I hired. Very quick and easy to use.

    As for application I used the Sureline foam pad. I found this very easy, quick and nice to use but then I realised it was not coating the sides of the boards at all, are you supposed to hand brush the gaps? Seems to defeat the purpose. I'm going to try a decking brush next time https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-...brush_p1662785

  5. #5
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    Nice that you feel like you have it sorted out. trying to achieve a natural colour on spotted gum that can block UV can be quite challenging.

  6. #6
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    Timely thread for me, am going to sand and coat a spotted gum deck this weekend...

    Any recommendations on a sander? Was looking at https://www.festool.com.au/ro-150-fe...er_575067.html

    Don't mind spending the money on something decent, question is, is there something better?

    Jimj?

  7. #7
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Was looking at https://www.festool.com.au/ro-150-fe...er_575067.html

    Don't mind spending the money on something decent, question is, is there something better?

    Jimj?
    For over a 1000 bucks you would want to have serious use for it

  8. #8
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    Yes I agree with Phild01 However if you want to sand off old coatings, rough timber or a dining table to extremely smooth 240 grit or higher this sander will not let you down. When I was doing decks it was the tool I used the most. I totally destroyed 3 and currently have 4 in the shed. Without this sander I would have truly struggled in timber restoration. All timber regardless of age was sanded first prior to coating and the Rotex was front& centre for all of the hard work. Please know you will create an enormous amount of dust. A functioning dust extraction system is a very important part of the system. You don't have to invest in a Festool dust extractor (I did) but having some type of vacuum hooked up to the sander will make the task so much better in many ways.

    good luck!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    For over a 1000 bucks you would want to have serious use for it
    Much cheaper, and faster, to hire an orbital floor sander like this for the day: https://centenaryhire.com.au/hire/orbital-floor-sander/

    On one deck I had already stripped the previous coating so only needed a light sand of 80 grit, took me less than 2 hours to cover 55sqm

    On the other deck (45sqm) I tried without any stripping so used 40 grit, followed by 80 girt, this took a lot longer, around 5 hours but did the job.

    The machine hire plus all the sand paper was $180 and a 100 sqm sanded in a day.

    I could not imagine how long it would take using a hand held on my knees, probably weeks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    For over a 1000 bucks you would want to have serious use for it
    Is there something else you'd recommend?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    Yes I agree with Phild01 However if you want to sand off old coatings, rough timber or a dining table to extremely smooth 240 grit or higher this sander will not let you down. When I was doing decks it was the tool I used the most. I totally destroyed 3 and currently have 4 in the shed. Without this sander I would have truly struggled in timber restoration. All timber regardless of age was sanded first prior to coating and the Rotex was front& centre for all of the hard work. Please know you will create an enormous amount of dust. A functioning dust extraction system is a very important part of the system. You don't have to invest in a Festool dust extractor (I did) but having some type of vacuum hooked up to the sander will make the task so much better in many ways.

    good luck!
    Thanks for the detailed reply mate.

  12. #12
    Deactivated User Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    You might find what you have there will be okay after a few months and deal with it the next time it requires re-coating. Sure it could look better but I would leave it and save the effort and money until next time.

    Originally Posted by Optimus
    Is there something else you'd recommend?



    Deck paint by Cabot.
    https://cabots.com.au/product/cabots...exterior-paint

    Oiling an uncovered deck is like trying to bail out the river with a bucket.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by plucka View Post
    Much cheaper, and faster, to hire an orbital floor sander like this for the day: https://centenaryhire.com.au/hire/orbital-floor-sander/
    Interesting sander but does it compensate for board irregularity!
    I have seen decks done with floor sanders and I think it is a bad idea as deck boards are not usually flat like house floors. You end up stripping away a lot of wood where there is variation. I say the way Jim does it would be the best possible way.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Is there something else you'd recommend?
    Just saying it's a lot of money to be throwing around for seldom use. I agree with the machine but maybe go cheaper.
    Makita have a similar machine for around $450. Milwaukee for a bit less, Bosch as well, haven't used any.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Interesting sander but does it compensate for board irregularity!
    I have seen decks done with floor sanders and I think it is a bad idea as deck boards are not usually flat like house floors. You end up stripping away a lot of wood where there is variation. I say the way Jim does it would be the best possible way.
    That sander uses a foam pad so yes compensates for uneven boards to some degree, even can sand over dome head nails ok. You're maybe thinking of drum floor sander such as https://centenaryhire.com.au/hire/hummel-floor-sander/. I would not use that on a deck.

    I hired that orbital sander again today to strip off the spa n deck. Took less than an hour with 40 grit paper to strip back 15sqm, then a quick once over with 80 grit, done and dusted. Now just have to hand/mouse sand the edges and corners.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by plucka View Post
    You're maybe thinking of drum floor sander such as https://centenaryhire.com.au/hire/hummel-floor-sander/. I would not use that on a deck.
    No I saw that it was different and is great to hear about your positive experience with it. Sounds good.

  17. #17
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    Bosch GEX 150 Turbo does everything a ft will do at 1/4 the price.

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    " I am curious how they call it an oil though when its not an oil at all but waterbased."
    Because they lie to make you believe you are putting nourishing oil into your wood... you're not, you are using water based paint, which eventually will need exactly what you have had to do... sand the whole bloody lot!
    Again, no disrespect to the old hands that do/did this work for a living, whole different ball game.
    For the home owner; get some good oil based and take the time to do it right and you will save time, effort and frustration in the long run and nourish your timber in the meantime.
    You will never have to sand again.

  19. #19
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    Ended up getting the festool, used it today on some cypress posts and glad i got it..

    A very sexual little machine

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    Well done !

    I am certain it will do everything you ask of it .

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    Me too, it was enjoyable to use.

    Actually looking forward to running it over the deck.

    So you reckon just sand then blow & wash off then coat?

    All good to coat the next day, yeah?

  22. #22
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    Yes ,just depends on what product you are coating with. To be absolutely sure just make sure the timber is dry before coating.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    I no longer reckon Intergrain Ultradeck is as good as it once was, I wouldn't recommend it, then again I know of nothing that is much good anyway all requiring regular maintenance. I believe Metrix favours Cabots oiled based.

    You might find what you have there will be okay after a few months and deal with it the next time it requires re-coating. Sure it could look better but I would leave it and save the effort and money until next time.
    Agree, Ultradeck is good for screens but I don;t like it on decks, plus it masks the timber grain after about 3 coats as do most water based products, think of them as semi transparent paint, yuk.


    I don't particularly like any water based coatings anymore, and have gone back to favoring oil based coatings not only for ease of application, but future maintenance is much easier ie: no sanding required.

    The only water based coating I rate nowadays, is Intergrain Natural Stain, particularly in the Charcoal colours, it is a great product for changing the colour of the timber, and seems to last a long time without maintenance.
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushy View Post
    bosch gex 150 turbo does everything a ft will do at 1/4 the price.
    yep
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  25. #25
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    I've used Ultradeck Merbau on a TP deck and it came up good, albeit a bit dark, especially after the 3rd year of coating (which kind of mirrors Metrix's experience, although TP doesn't have much grain, so no great loss). I've also used Ultradeck natural on merbau posts - these came up very glossy and it preserved the natural colour & grain of the timber. Being posts, water doesn't pool on them, but they are in full sun and have not lost their gloss after a year (hopefully UV won't degrade them long term).

    I'll be coating a spotted gum deck in the near future, but after Metrix's comments, I might go for an oil-based product instead of the Ultradeck.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveOh View Post
    I've used Ultradeck Merbau on a TP deck and it came up good, albeit a bit dark, especially after the 3rd year of coating (which kind of mirrors Metrix's experience, although TP doesn't have much grain, so no great loss). I've also used Ultradeck natural on merbau posts - these came up very glossy and it preserved the natural colour & grain of the timber. Being posts, water doesn't pool on them, but they are in full sun and have not lost their gloss after a year (hopefully UV won't degrade them long term).

    I'll be coating a spotted gum deck in the near future, but after Metrix's comments, I might go for an oil-based product instead of the Ultradeck.
    Any coating that's in full sun will degrade, solid colour paints degrade slowly, clear type coatings such as Ultradeck degrade much quicker and need constant maintaining
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

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    I've owned a Festo. Not again! Makita make something similar for considerably less...

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