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  1. #1
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Default Waldo's Deck

    G'day,

    Nope, pics yet, sorry, for that you'll have to wait until I kick off next Tuesday.

    Rather than raising a thread each time I have a question I thought I'd encompass it all in here.

    So, the boards for the deck and external posts will be merbau, what timber will compliment the merbau if I don't also use merbau for the handrails? Also what timber will also compliment as the slats within the handrails? Merbau for everything might be an overkill.

    Also with the handrails, I'm looking for a style similar to breadloaf or ladies waist handrail, not with the same profile but just a simple rectangular profile. What I 'm after is a handrail that has mortices rather than one channel running the length of the handrail, for the reason that it'd collect water on the bottom rail. I could rout the mortices, but it'd be very time
    consuming.

    What I don't also want to do is this, referring to the handrails and the way the slats are fixed (see second pic)

    Any ideas?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails picture-3.png   5.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  2. #2
    Rocking horse maker Wongo's Avatar
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    I like your deck.




  3. #3
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    You're a cheeky bloke Wongo.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  4. #4
    Gra
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    deck him waldo....



    he he he.. couldnt resist
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  5. #5
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gra View Post
    deck him waldo....



    he he he.. couldnt resist




    Doesn't anyone have any ideas?
    I make things, they just take a long time.

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    Rocking horse maker Wongo's Avatar
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    Remember Gra, no one likes a clever deck.

  7. #7
    Gra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongo View Post
    Remember Gra, no one likes a clever deck.
    yeah I suppose, they usually get called a deck head anyway dont they
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  8. #8
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Question

    a really serious thread so far. C'mon Utemad or Connolly's you got any ideas?

    (there are always the village clowns about somewhere )
    I make things, they just take a long time.

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    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
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    What I 'm after is a handrail that has mortices rather than one channel running the length of the handrail, for the reason that it'd collect water on the bottom rail.
    What they normally do with the bottom rail on an indoor balustrade is fill the housing with a timber strip after the balusters have been fitted. You could do the same. You just mill a length the right size to fill the housing, then dock it to fit the space between each baluster. You can use one as a spacer when you're fitting the balusters so they're all the same gap.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  10. #10
    Gra
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    Actually on a serious not (Yes I can do that every now and then). The way the bottom slats are mounted on that second photo would allow for little moisture build up as gravity would take it away. You can buy handrail (Laminated pine ) from bunnies that already has the rebate at the bottom and is in the "Ladies Waist" style.
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  11. #11
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    What they normally do with the bottom rail on an indoor balustrade is fill the housing with a timber strip after the balusters have been fitted. You could do the same. You just mill a length the right size to fill the housing, then dock it to fit the space between each baluster. You can use one as a spacer when you're fitting the balusters so they're all the same gap.
    You know what Silent,

    That probably is the best way. Rout the channel in 90x41 merbau, and fill with strips. So the next question, what timber for the slats? I don't want to paint but would rather the timber be in it's natural state.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  12. #12
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
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    Do you want a contrasting timber? It could look OK with a blonde timber like blackbutt or ash. Or maybe alternate dark to light.

    Personally, I'd just do the whole thing in the same timber anyway.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  13. #13
    Golden Member HappyHammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
    Merbau for everything might be an overkill.
    Because of the price or the look?

    HH.
    Always look on the bright side...

  14. #14
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Do you want a contrasting timber? It could look OK with a blonde timber like blackbutt or ash. Or maybe alternate dark to light.

    Personally, I'd just do the whole thing in the same timber anyway.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyHammer View Post
    Because of the price or the look?

    HH.
    Price is okay, just wonder if it would be too much merbau. I've ordered about 15lm extra of 140x19, so the left over might give me enough slats, if not I could easily get more.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

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    Timber Hoarder Cliff Rogers's Avatar
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    The bottom rail on our steps in Cairns doesn't have a channel, it has a rebate on the inside & the uprights stand in the rebate.
    That way it doesn't trap any water.
    Cliff

    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  17. #17
    Dances with splinters Skew ChiDAMN!!'s Avatar
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    Just wondering... is there really any need for a bottom rail?

    Why not just drill a hole at the correct spot in the end of each decking board (oh, for a morticing drill!) or mebbe every second one... and cut a tenon on each upright so it just drops in?
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

  18. #18
    Gra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Just wondering... is there really any need for a bottom rail?

    Why not just drill a hole at the correct spot in the end of each decking board (oh, for a morticing drill!) or mebbe every second one... and cut a tenon on each upright so it just drops in?
    Oh where did I put that square drill bit..... I cant see any reason it couldn't be done that way skew. Maybe it would be harder to sweep the leaves off the end into the garden
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  19. #19
    Shed Rat Howdya do that's Avatar
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    Build yourself a Rolls Royce router table and you could make any thing your heart desires.

    Know any good router table builders
    Cheers,

    Howdya

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  20. #20
    Gra
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    Will agree with you on the too much merbeu. it would be very brown/red.. The Ash or blackbutt suggested above would look good, not sure on the longevity though
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  21. #21
    Dances with splinters Skew ChiDAMN!!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gra View Post
    Oh where did I put that square drill bit..... I cant see any reason it couldn't be done that way skew. Maybe it would be harder to sweep the leaves off the end into the garden
    Leaves? At Waldo's? I don't think his grass grows that big...

    As for the contrast, it depends on how much maintenance he wants to put into it. If it's going to see a lot of exposure and only be oiled once every ten years when the outside of the house get's a touch-up (if it's lucky), then there's not much point in going for contrast. It all silvers up eventually.

    However, if you plan on oiling it every year or two then it'd make a nice feature.
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

  22. #22
    Gra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Leaves? At Waldo's? I don't think his grass grows that big...
    I was being polite, I did mean vitamin skins
    When given a choice, people will always do the dumbest thing under the circumstances.


  23. #23
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    The bottom rail on our steps in Cairns doesn't have a channel, it has a rebate on the inside & the uprights stand in the rebate.
    That way it doesn't trap any water.
    'cept I like the typical Qld handrail on stairs where the balustrates (typo?) (the vitamins have kicked in so excuse the brain phart) are mortised in. My earlier post is the way I'll go except I'm still no wiser on the what to use. Merbau for top and bottom rails are locked in.

    Gra is with me, my gut instinct say merbau for everything will be overkill so I'll go with that. Ash or blackbut as pointed out again by Gra, anyone know of it's life? Yep, the plan is to oil yearly - heck if I'm spending money and not going with carp treated pine boards, then I'll be looking after it, the grass can do what it likes. Floorboard wise, would jarrah work for the slats?

    Could just do a top top h/rail and mortise in, SWMBO will have to give approval if we go down that track.

    Anyways I have a little bit of time before I get to doing the handrails. Skew and I will knock heads and see what's what.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

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    if you want a nice contrast .....what about cyprus slats ?

  25. #25
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Well, it's been a while since I posted anything in here (please excuse and tytpos I mise, damn vitamins ).

    The deck hit snags from day one. The neighbour and I strung up the lines for the posts, I hired a post hole digger and of 15 holes or so, all bar 3 holes hit teracotta pipe, PVC pipe, hot water and cold and conduit, useless Dial b 4 you Dig (the last 3 we found later from the neighbour ran off into who knows where for a granny flat)

    Still on day one, we found that the outer permieter for the merbau posts hit t/pipe, punctured them and confirmed that they were indeed dead pipes. So no worries, we smashed 'em for the holes. A liitle bit down and still for the external merbau posts we hit PVC. If we went in further and made new holes we'd hit more PVC, so the deck by no choice got extended width wise. RThe next line of posts (to be cypress) we hit another line of t/pipes. I punched a hole in them didn't I said (Skew was there) they;re dead the next day it rained, so I thought I'll just check on the holes , they had water in ;em didn't they. - they were live pipes for the downwater from from gutter. So 2 days into the deck I was digging a trench - 2 days it took, so this brought me to the 4th day of proceedings when I was hoping to have the decking on it's way.

    So anyway, today I finally got down to having the majority of posts concreted in (60 bags of cement later) all bar 2 posts for the steps done.

    (what am I up to )

    Yeah, I decided to go down the path of doing all visible posts and hanrails and pailings in merbau, sure it costs extra, but if I'm doing something I'd rather not cut costs and do it right. The top and bottom handrails, 85x40, will be have a 19mm channel down their guts which I'll have 70x19 merbau decking, which I''l cut down to size, and fill with merbau spacers, as per advice given to me by whatsit bloke somewhere in this thread, for the advice.

    Anyway, so shots below of progress so far and a couple showing I have no rtoom in the shed at the moment given that it's full of stuff for the decking. And, oh yeah, I took back today 11 90x45 @ 3.6m and 2 140x45 @ 36m and another length @ 3.6m can't remember what sixze 'coz I just can't right now, they were all bananas and useless for nothing whatsoever.

    (kepp getting, I've uplaoded 16 pics and I have a minium of 12 , I've only uploaded 4, so I'll come back later ok, yeah? Just imagine the pics for a bit ok?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dk4.jpg   dk3.jpg   dk2.jpg   dk1.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  26. #26
    Dances with splinters Skew ChiDAMN!!'s Avatar
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    At least the destruction is done and the construction has started...
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Too right Skew, too right.

    Next time on the menu I should put some coffee beans on. Unless you're happy with the current one.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

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    1K Club Member DJ's Timber's Avatar
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    Is that all you've done , Skews not pushing you hard enough .

    At least you left some room in the shed for the missus car, can't have that sitting outside hey
    Cheers

    DJ

  29. #29
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ's Timber View Post
    Is that all you've done , Skews not pushing you hard enough .
    Should've seen the trench for the new stormwater and holes, then you'd get the idea of the time delay.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ's Timber View Post
    At least you left some room in the shed for the missus car, can't have that sitting outside hey
    way. She's on holiday, but even still, if I hadn't I'd be shot. It was also laid down as a rule of law, that her car had to stay in the shed. :insertscaredofSWMBOsmilie:

    Haven't posted it yet, but today I moved a stack load of dirt out of the way, and thre of us got the bearers up, tomorrow the joists and whatever else gets done.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  30. #30
    1K Club Member DJ's Timber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
    Should've seen the trench for the new stormwater and holes, then you'd get the idea of the time delay.
    Excuses, excuses
    Cheers

    DJ

  31. #31
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ's Timber View Post
    Excuses, excuses
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    G'day,

    I put in about 3 hours late this morning and was able to get about 3/4 of the joists down. After all the agro of the holes and moving things etc. things are starting to take shape now. Tomorrow arvo will see the remaining joists down and then it'll be onto the pergola.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dk5.jpg   dk6.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  33. #33
    1K Club Member DJ's Timber's Avatar
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    All happening now , looks like its going to be a bewdy Waldo
    Cheers

    DJ

  34. #34
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ's Timber View Post
    All happening now , looks like its going to be a bewdy Waldo
    Thanks mate.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Question Calculating sringers

    G'day,

    Can anyone point me to a site that calculates the stringer length based on height, run, rise etc.? And what is the angle, around about 33?

    Also, what amount of overhang should I ideally have for the pergola?
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Question

    G'day,

    Okay, I'm about to move into uncharted territory here. Stairs.

    I have two choices:

    1. Ready Stairs,from these blokes, whom Bowens stock http://www.melbournestairs.com.au/external/index.php

    2. or fabricate my own?

    Ready Stair might be simpler as they're set to go, all I have to do is install my own steps into them, which for either option will be merbau from Mathews Timber. The second option might turn out to be cheaper, but I've got no experience in working out the rise and and fall required for the stringers and at what angle the stringer needs to be relative to the deck height, nor the mechanics behind the build.

    So, whatdaya think?

    Ideally I'd like the stringer to be hardwood, purely for aesthetics, t/pine would be okay - I'm just not sure.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  37. #37
    Timber Hoarder Cliff Rogers's Avatar
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    Watch out for that first step Waldo, it is a killer.
    Cliff

    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  38. #38
    1K Club Member DJ's Timber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
    G'day,

    Can anyone point me to a site that calculates the stringer length based on height, run, rise etc.? And what is the angle, around about 33?
    Could try Blocklayer's calculator on his site, he's a member here
    Cheers

    DJ

  39. #39
    Color blind! Dr - 307's Avatar
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    I always knew that the net was more useful than just looking up pretty ladies .

    I'll find the stair calculator handy also.

    Cheers DJ Timber and Blocklayer,
    Dr - 307.
    All decks should be painted - black white black white black white. After all, it would match everything!

  40. #40
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    A bit more of an update.

    Over the last week and a bit (pics 1 and 2), I've been able to get the roof up, and onto laying the decking, which with some help/advice from Skew , we figured out the best way to lay the boards out before cutting to size and got on to the long task of marking, drilling and screwing down.

    Hit a speed hump just a little while ago, (3rd pic) the driver for the screws decided to part company flush with head off the screw I can try and drill the bit off and tap a thread into the screw, or try and forget about it, come back later and see what I think about leaving the rotter there.

    Rather than use a string line to mark out where to drill the boards, a jig was made. It's the Skew Jig (4th and 5th pics), it makes life quick easy for marking the centre line where each board fall across the joist, and at the end of the day it counts towards saving time so that there's more time for vitamins.

    Although progress has been slow on screwing the boards down as I have have to use the Bessey's to pull the boards in. Spacing is 5mm with the aid of some plastic packers from Skew.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails d7.gif   d8.gif   d9.gif   d10.gif   d11.gif  

    I make things, they just take a long time.

  41. #41
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    G'day,

    Progress has been slowed up a bit over the last week or so with clients deciding to give me some work. and having a few 36 - 39 degree days also don't get me racing out in the heat too fast.

    Anyway today I got the last of my available 140x19 boards down (have to wait about another two weeks for my next order to get delivered - I'm short on account of the increse of size due to some post holes moving the deck out due to s/water pipes and t/pipe - but bigger is better.

    To give SWMBO an idea of the deck and pergola being finished I hosed the deck down. I was impressed myself.

    Next stage is to check out the posts to take the top and bottom rails, get the balustrates in and start on the stairs - in no particualar order. Only once the stairs are done will I finish off the decking in total - reasons for that in later posts
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dk13.jpg   dk14.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  42. #42
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    G'day,

    It's been a while since my last confession.

    Over the last two weeks off and on I've been able to get some more work done on the continuing saga of Waldo's deck.

    With the help of Skew over two days last week we got a start on the stairs. While Skew was busy crunching numbers based on the rise and run for the stringers ( pic 1) I made a start on the stairs.

    Dressed merbau 1000m x 300mm x 45mm x 5 slabs was going to cost me pretty penny and the waiting period was about a month, so I got rough sawn. (pic 2) So while Skew was doing the above I was running the slabs through the thinknesser and dimensioning on the trusty 10HB. I was pretty happy with the end result, 1 of which has some really nice figure running through it, which will show nicely with some oil on top.

    Based on the BCA codes there has to be no more spacing between each tread that a 125mm sphere can pass between them. Based on a 183.33mm rise between each tread given an 1100mm rise over a 1500mm run, each tread needs to be 60mm, given that they're 40mm thick I needed another 20mm. So I ripped some 90mm sq. left over posts down to 881mm (width of tread) and 25mm (pic 3) and set them back 100mm from the leading edge and inset 15mm from the outside edges on the underneath of each tread.

    (pic 4) So far as putting it all together I figured it'd be easiest to do clamped up to the bearers, it worked a treat.

    Pic 4 also shows some previous progess. Over Wednesday and Thursday, again with Skew's help , we ran the cut lengths of 85mm x 40mm merbau through the router, it's first real test, and routered the channels 19mm deep. You can see one of these in handrails in place. Posts were checked out with my 1/2 TR-12 and a 1/4 router of a dodgy name (Black & Decker).

    More progress shots in the coming days.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails wd14.jpg   wd15.jpg   wd16.jpg   wd17.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  43. #43
    Rigid Member UteMad's Avatar
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    Default Dont Like My Photo Huh

    i am totally bummed you dont like my handrail !!! But pleased you sought to consult my photo's anyway LoL

    One does have to remember you are building your deck yourself to save costs and if you had to pay a contractor aswell i'd imagine whilst your deck would have been finished months ago it would have cost you far more and you may have been forced to cut back on some of the things you have afforded by doing it yourself.... Cant wait to see your rails i hope they turn out great.. Research pays off the more you do the more you see which will hopefully get you the end result your after.,..
    Snapped tips is a fact nof life they shatter all the time cause they are junk.. pull it out with needle nose pliers if you can grab it other wise tap the board next to the screw




    Cheers utemad

  44. #44
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    G'day Utemad,

    it probably would've been finished a while ago now. Building myself, even with some help , takes longer but I get more satisfaction from it.

    Research has been a big thing and then nutting it all out. Your pic of the handrails was a starting point, more really of what I didn't want to do . For me fixing the slats on the outside of the rails, while on the inside looks neat, I think on the outside, while quicker to erect, it's not as neat as I'd like. When I get to the h/rails it'll be the downhill run of the construction phase.

    I can't remember where the snapped tip is , I'd even forgotten about it. All up so far, one snapped tip and no more than 6 screws that I did the heads on.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  45. #45
    Rigid Member UteMad's Avatar
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    Heres one thats cut in top and bot although rails are a cleaner square look and not moulded



    cheers utemad

  46. #46
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    There are a million and one ways to do things.
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  47. #47
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    G'day,

    Got some more work done over Friday arvo and today. Skew gave me a hand to lift the stairs into place and fasten to the bearers, no way i could've done it myself. The stairs as a complete unit weigh a tonne, given that each merbau tread is 911mm x 295mm x 40mm.

    Pic 1 The stairs in place and concreted in Pic 2 shows the stringers mortised into the posts. A bit of a whack and the stringers went home nice and tight into the posts. We ran a level over the treads and they're perfect on all accounts - slope, the works and jerks. A concrete pad will be put under each stringer to provide extra support.

    Pic 3 Now here's the beauty. A sneak peak at the detail I'm putting into the deck.

    Over the coming week I'll finish putting the perimeter boards around the deck and then give the whole deck a pass over with the Metabo Duo Turbotec (slight gloat )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails wd19.jpg   wd20.jpg   wd21.jpg  
    I make things, they just take a long time.

  48. #48
    Senior Member brynk's Avatar
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    * smacks his chops while looking at photo #3 ... *

    those treads have a decidedly non-G-rating affect on me
    "Man got the opposable thumb - woman got four opposable fingers." - Rowdy

  49. #49
    Dances with splinters Skew ChiDAMN!!'s Avatar
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    Did you try fitting any of the outside trim (flashing the bearers) to see if all's going to plan?

    Or were you just checking that the KDHW strip was correctly sized?
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

  50. #50
    Senior Member Waldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Did you try fitting any of the outside trim (flashing the bearers) to see if all's going to plan?
    it's


    I make things, they just take a long time.

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