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Splashback in front of window

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  1. #1
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    Default Splashback in front of window

    In updating my 50's kitchen, I had to put the cooktop in front of a big window. So a tiled splashback is not an option.
    My first thought was to have a stainless steel lid over the gas cooktop, hinged at rear to make a splashback when raised.
    The wife suggested a fixed clear glass one., which sounds a lot better.
    For the moment I have a steel panel behind it, which looks a bit ugly silhouetted in front of the window.

    What do you think? Just get a tempered glass pane, about 60x60 and clamp it to the back of the cabinets, so it sticks up, frameless behind the cooktop?
    Maybe something coloured? The window has no great view, but lets lots of light in.
    The rangehood now hangs in front of the window, but is above head height, so does not look obstructive. Well, ... I like it

    BTW, the window currently has timber venetians. I got rid of the curtains for obvious reasons. It opens from the side. The original double sash long ago replaced with aluminium frame.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Post a Pic?

  3. #3
    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    the glass in the window may need to be replaced as it will not be heat proof

  4. #4
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    kitche-win.jpg
    OK, pic. The bench shown will move a bit to the left once the pantry is done, and still needs a backing strip to stop things falling onto the window sill.
    If I expected to be staying here longer I might raise the window sill above the benchtop, but that sounds like too much work for too little gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza View Post
    the glass in the window may need to be replaced as it will not be heat proof
    The glass is 20cm behind the cooktop edge, and the back-burners are standard size, big one at the front.
    And that's partly what the splashback is for, to keep heat from the window. And the blinds.
    Maybe I should have a tempered glass panel go all the way from benchtop to the rangehood.
    How close can tempered glass be to the burner?

  5. #5
    Concepteur Sybarite's Avatar
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    A toughened glass splash can be almost as close to the burner as you like as it is a fire retardant material.

    Of course it is wise to leave enough space so that large pots or frypans which overhang the hob won't be bashing into it.

    Don't forget though, that toughened glass is not a very good insulator (think glass topped cooktops) and both sides of the glass will quickly become as hot as the heat source they are next to which could still affect your timber blinds.

    When a glass splashback is mounted on a wall it requires a cement fibre (or similar) substrate to avoid it becoming a fire hazard.

    Cheers,

    Earl
    Designer - Retail; Exhibition; Kitchen


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    Thanks Earl,
    I have now installed a curved offcut of melamine-coated benchtop vertically at the back of the bench, rising 18cm behind the cooktop, and 11cm clear of the flames (plenty of room for the biggest pot.)
    Hopefully far enough for the fibreboard not to be damaged. I know melamine does not mind the heat. Will mount some glass on the back of that, which I expect will keep it from getting too hot.

    Out of curiosity, is the cement fibre substrate required for brick walls, or just for timber frames? (Not many of them out West.)

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    1K Club Member Godzilla73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundra View Post
    Thanks Earl,
    I have now installed a curved offcut of melamine-coated benchtop vertically at the back of the bench, rising 18cm behind the cooktop, and 11cm clear of the flames (plenty of room for the biggest pot.)
    This is illegal... Both material and distance form burner even if it were glass...

    Quote Originally Posted by tundra View Post
    I know melamine does not mind the heat.
    Right up until the point it goes bang, which it will...

    Quote Originally Posted by tundra View Post
    Will mount some glass on the back of that
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by tundra View Post
    which I expect will keep it from getting too hot.
    Err no...

    Quote Originally Posted by tundra View Post
    Out of curiosity, is the cement fibre substrate required for brick walls, or just for timber frames?
    Brick No, everything else Yes. You can't just use cement sheet either it needs to be fireproof board, comes in either 6mm or 9mm from Reece, costs a bomb too...

  8. #8
    Concepteur Sybarite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla73 View Post
    You can't just use cement sheet either it needs to be fireproof board, comes in either 6mm or 9mm from Reece, costs a bomb too...
    This is very good advice and I'm glad you drew my attention to it.

    Take note all.

    Cheers,

    Earl
    Designer - Retail; Exhibition; Kitchen


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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla73 View Post
    This is illegal... Both material and distance form burner even if it were glass...
    Citation please? Do regs refer to an AS doc?
    My house would break a thousand building codes if it were newly built.

    Right up until the point it goes bang, which it will...
    You sound awfully sure. I've seen kitchens with melanine cabinets close to the stove.
    Seems to do better than vinyl wrap, which can soften and shrink.
    Are you suggesting moisture in the fibreboard will steam and go pop? Sounds like a job for mythbusters.
    I have a few offcuts and an old gas cooktop. How long do you think I need to test it ?

    Why?
    to avoid splatter on the blinds and window, and possible warping of the basswood.

    Brick No, everything else Yes. You can't just use cement sheet either it needs to be fireproof board, comes in either 6mm or 9mm from Reece, costs a bomb too...
    No worries. I have some old asbestos panels in the shed

    One option is to put the glass in front of the melamine backboard, with a small air-gap in between for insulation.

  10. #10
    1K Club Member Godzilla73's Avatar
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    The minimum is 140mm between the burner and the face of any fire resistant surface, back, sides whatever. Laminate isn't resistant, anything 200mm away doesn't require the heatproof board. This is common now with people having 700mm deep tops, there prob is a AS #### for it but i'm not trudging thru it for you.

    How i know, is that no glazier/splashback installer, will install unless this is the case over here. Even if you could use laminate, you'd need the fireproof board recessed into the chipboard sub straight, as we have to do with stainless steel.

    Yes i have seen Laminate "Pop" and burn from heat, even a lighter used to heat it to bend a strip around a radius can do this if left for to long. Same as leaving a hot saucepan on laminate.

    Vinyl has become the joke of the industry.

    Sorry, didn't get your intended purpose of the glass. If it's still close to heat, it will still conduct heat. Anything 200mm above the burner is out of harms way.

    Can you put glass right across the window in a aluminum channel, say painted white with the heat proof board behind and a aluminum strip across the top to finish. It only needs to rise 200mm above the burner. Finish height would only be 250mm ish...

  11. #11
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    Think the laminate glue when heated will release thats the popping noise but the melamine will not pop as there is no glue.
    Though these products will likely be hmr contain formaldrahyde which is poisonous and i would say are not healthy to be heated up.
    Not all building codes are the same in each state.
    Is it true that a tradesman and builder that work under a specific liscence have a as bca or best practise to comply with so all tradies quote on the same thing,but because a kitchen is not structual or over a square meter in size there is realy no governing body to inspect such a thing if an owner was to build it themself.

  12. #12
    1K Club Member Godzilla73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLHConstruction View Post
    Think the laminate glue when heated will release thats the popping noise but the melamine will not pop as there is no glue.
    That just causes a bubble. This happens rarely these days with postformed tops as they use pva that is cured in heat press, contact adhesive is only used on edges and will soften with heat.

    Below is what happens when the thin coloured layer lets go, due to, excessive heat .

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails laminate-burn.jpg  
    Last edited by Godzilla73; 19th Jan 2012 at 11:27 PM. Reason: spwelling.!!!

  13. #13
    1K Club Member arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLHConstruction View Post
    Think the laminate glue when heated will release thats the popping noise but the melamine will not pop as there is no glue.
    Though these products will likely be hmr contain formaldrahyde which is poisonous and i would say are not healthy to be heated up.
    Not all building codes are the same in each state.
    Is it true that a tradesman and builder that work under a specific liscence have a as bca or best practise to comply with so all tradies quote on the same thing,but because a kitchen is not structual or over a square meter in size there is realy no governing body to inspect such a thing if an owner was to build it themself.
    sorry wrong ,when heat is applied to laminate the different sections of the properties expand and release at different times hence the popping noise ,the top layer has had enough heat and says to the substrate layer "thanks for inviting me but its way too hot to hang around so i,m off"
    also i would do my best to talk a customer out of putting a laminate splashback behind a electric hot plate and be even more forceful about a gas hot plate ,but what do i know .ehh
    kind regards
    tom armstrong
    www.kitcheninabox.com.au
    Flat Packed kitchens to the world

  14. #14
    1K Club Member Godzilla73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arms View Post
    i would do my best to talk a customer out of putting a laminate splashback behind a electric hot plate and be even more forceful about a gas hot plate ,but what do i know .ehh


    "Do my best" What a nice way to put it...

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    1K Club Member arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla73 View Post


    "Do my best" What a nice way to put it...
    funny thing about humans ,some of them will take advise and some will need it to be shoved down their throats until they are choking before they take you seriously
    kind regards
    tom armstrong
    www.kitcheninabox.com.au
    Flat Packed kitchens to the world

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla73 View Post
    The minimum is 140mm between the burner and the face of any fire resistant surface, back, sides whatever. Laminate isn't resistant, anything 200mm away doesn't require the heatproof board.....
    140mm from where? Centre, metal edge, flame? I figure 200mm from burner centre will give plenty of ventilation between biggest pan and backing.
    I tried taping a temperature probe to the melamine 'splashback', and reached only 40C in normal use - simmering pot or small frypan on the backburner.
    Yes it is postform. I checked the Laminex website, and they say:

    It is not recommended for exterior use or as a splashback surface behind gas appliances
    and
    Laminate has good durability including resistance to surface wear, boiling water (up to 180oc) dry heat, impact and staining.
    However direct exposure to steam, or direct radiant heat can cause a moderate change in colour or gloss level. Cigarette burns can cause moderate change in gloss level and moderate brown staining.
    With mild warnings like that, I'm tempted to wait and see. No great loss if I have to throw the backing out, as it is already installed, and an offcut.
    Or just cover up the discoloured melamine (if it happens) with some heat-resistant tiles. What are those ones that NASA used?

    Obviously it would be very different if I were a professional installer doing it for someone else.
    Can you put glass right across the window in a aluminum channel, say painted white with the heat proof board behind and a aluminum strip across the top to finish. It only needs to rise 200mm above the burner. Finish height would only be 250mm ish...
    I really do not want to block the window, and it needs to go higher than 250mm to catch the splashes. So the idea was a transparent panel. I could paint and back the bottom part. Mounting the glass is no problem .
    Thanks for the advice folks. Hope you understand that this old house will probably be demolished in a few years. When I build a new house it will be less sloppy.

  17. #17
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    If the house is going to be demolished, why did you bother with the kitchen? Is it even legal to install the cooktop and range hood directly in front of the window? Wasn't there any other option? To be perfectly honest, it's a poor layout, and I suspect you're going to despise cleaning the venetian and windowsill of cooking grease and other debris.

    Good luck to you.
    I am not responsible for anything that Moondog says!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecile View Post
    If the house is going to be demolished, why did you bother with the kitchen? .
    If you have nothing to contribute, and have not read the responses above, why bother to post?

  19. #19
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    You assume too much...I did read the responses. It's an open forum, and the other respondents all gave good information about splashbacks in general, based on your initial question, but no one commented on the poor layout, which I choose to do. I do not like your layout, and for good reason. It's inefficient, very likely illegal, and will not be a pleasure to use...cooking should be a pleasure, not a dirty chore that you may come to despise. I speak with experience as I am an interior designer, and am married to professional chef, who also commented that he does not like the layout, and considers that it is unsafe as it is.

    There was no need for you to be rude. I'm entitled to post just like the others and asked an honest question. You didn't say why you renovated the kitchen in an older house that is to be demolished, or why you chose that particular layout. I was truly curious why you bothered with a poor layout rather than making do in the short term until you can do it right the first time.

    I gave an honest opinion in an open forum, and you don't like it. That's too bad...it wasn't a personal attack. I hope you don't have a building inspector in your house for any reason, because I truly believe you would be ordered to rip out all your hard work.

    As I said before, good luck.
    I am not responsible for anything that Moondog says!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecile View Post
    I was truly curious why you bothered with a poor layout rather than making do in the short term until you can do it right the first time.
    Sorry, I thought you were just being condescending, superior and derisive, without any constructive comments.
    The previous cabinets were sixty years old with ten layers of paint and far too small. The 50s gas cooker was in a recess designed for a wood stove, so little space above and no adjacent benchtop.
    Only spend about $1000 (gumtree, Ikea, Bunnings). More in time, but learned lots and very much enjoying the result, despite the constraints. No need to spoil it.

    No, cooktop in front of window is not ideal - that's why I came here! The alternatives were worse, short of major rebuilding. Your "opinion" Cecile is only restating the problem that brings me here, without adding anything.
    The point about demolition is that resale value increase is irrelevant. But we will use it, and rent it out.
    Thanks folks for the useful advice.

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