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Solid Timber floorboards creaking/loose - glued/nailed direct to timber on concrete

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  1. #1
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    Default Solid Timber floorboards creaking/loose - glued/nailed direct to timber on concrete

    Hi all, I need some advice...
    3 months ago I had a solid jarra floorboards glued and nailed to a plyfloor that was glued/nailed direct to concrete.

    Recently im hearing a lot of "creaking" of those floors when no-one is walking on them. There is some creaking also now when you walk on certain points. Ive also noticed that in one corner a couple of the boards appear a little loose.

    This is concerning to me. How normal is this? Is it a sign of things more sever to come? Would it be normal practise to contact the vendor to address this and what would they/could they do?

    Welcome any feedback.
    Thanks Chris

  2. #2
    Hwd Flooring Manufacturer glock40sw's Avatar
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    G'day Chris.
    Yep Scream your T1TZ off at them.
    Check what glue was used to fix the ply to the concrete as well as the t&g to the Ply.

    Who did the job?

    Who did you but it through?

    There are a few on the forums that deal with many varied merchants in the big smoke.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

  3. #3
    TIMBER FLOOR CONTRACTOR Larry McCully's Avatar
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    On a timber floor that is glued and nailed and it starts to creek, it could be two things happening......1/ the boards were higher in moisture content when they were laid. They may not have been acclimatized to its environment. When they were laid and if the boards were sanded and a polyurethane applied, the poly glues the boards together. As the boards dry out , it shears the bonded boards and can sound like a creaking . The poly is cracking. 2/ Also when the boards shrink, they get loose and it is no longer snug on the staple (secret nail) and as you walk on the floor the board moves on the nail and produces a squeaking noise. So first check out if the boards were on site for at least 2 weeks prior instalation. it can be fixed.

  4. #4
    Senior Member woodsprite's Avatar
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    Gee you blokes immediately look for a technical solution. Me, I'd get and exorcist in - it's obvious there's a spook in the house
    Life is just a leap of faith
    Spread your arms and hold your breath
    And always trust your cape

  5. #5
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    Thanks fo the detail Larry. Let me elaborate further. The boards are making "cracking" sounds when noone is walking on them. I will be in another room and hear it.

    The boards werent onsite for a 2 week period before they were laid. I recall the company telling me why it wasnt necessary for that particular board. Also, they didnt use polyurethane, but a Tung Oil and finished with that "Gemini Timber Floor Finish" product. I was talked out of polyurethane finish by the company who thought oil was better for Jarrah.

    The "cracking" sounds dont happen every day. Some days it will happen all day every half hour or so. BUt I havnt heard it now for quite a few days and the temperature has dropped in that time.

    So Im convinced it has to do with the change in weather. The boards were laid in winter, and now since we are heading into summer, Im assuming the ground temperature is changing and its affecting the boards, and they are moving around.

    You mentioned that this problem could be fixed. How can something like this be fixed without pulling up the floors? I found a thread on these forums somewhere of another person who had the same issue and the guy who responded told them it was normal. Doesnt feel normal for me!

    Please let me know if you or anyone has any feedback...

    On a separate note, that Gemini Timber Finish product was not great on the floors. When it was applied, there were fine air bubbles in the liquid (it was applied with the sheepskin applicator bought specially for this), however in some areas it dried with those bubbles still on the top. So my floor dried with these tiny air bubbles, which cant be removed. I had the installers look at them and they said only sanding would get them out. This was dissapointing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Larry McCully View Post
    On a timber floor that is glued and nailed and it starts to creek, it could be two things happening......1/ the boards were higher in moisture content when they were laid. They may not have been acclimatized to its environment. When they were laid and if the boards were sanded and a polyurethane applied, the poly glues the boards together. As the boards dry out , it shears the bonded boards and can sound like a creaking . The poly is cracking. 2/ Also when the boards shrink, they get loose and it is no longer snug on the staple (secret nail) and as you walk on the floor the board moves on the nail and produces a squeaking noise. So first check out if the boards were on site for at least 2 weeks prior instalation. it can be fixed.

  6. #6
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    As a bit of an off shoot from this thread. How can you aclimatise boards to an enviroment that does yet exist. When the house is not yet finished, the heater or air con not yet turned on, the painter yet to finish with his water based paint, the house open all day while workmen walk in and out and a client that wants there house finished no matter that it is the middle of winter. Also the boards would need to be racked with racking sticks between them in the house during aclimatisation period.
    I think this aclimatisation thing is brought up as an out for floor supliers of timber that is too damp.
    Also I think that the house holder should relise that timber is an organic material that will always change dimensions with changes in envirement.

  7. #7
    Hwd Flooring Manufacturer glock40sw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Codger View Post
    As a bit of an off shoot from this thread. How can you aclimatise boards to an enviroment that does yet exist. When the house is not yet finished, the heater or air con not yet turned on, the painter yet to finish with his water based paint, the house open all day while workmen walk in and out and a client that wants there house finished no matter that it is the middle of winter. Also the boards would need to be racked with racking sticks between them in the house during aclimatisation period.
    I think this aclimatisation thing is brought up as an out for floor supliers of timber that is too damp.
    Also I think that the house holder should relise that timber is an organic material that will always change dimensions with changes in envirement.
    G'day.
    If the house is not at lockup stage, do not have the flooring on site. FULL STOP.

    Wait until all wet trades have finished and the floor should be the last item installed.

    If the punter can't wait for the floor to be climatised and installed correctly, tell them to use carpet or tiles. If you want a great floor, you have to follow the rules.

    As a flooring manufacturer, I always want the flooring climatized and installed by a floor layer, NOT a bloody builder who thinks he can cut the cost by doing it himself and stuffing it up and then blame the timber, manufacturer, supplier, etc, etc.

    You are right. The punter has to be made aware of the fact that timber will move with climatic variation. If they don't like that, too bad. Use carpet or tiles.

    Every one that wants a timber floor must be prepared for the processes needed to provide a floor that meets their expectations. If they get the hurry-ups and rush the job, Sorry, NOT my problem.

    Of all the flooring issues that i have had over the last 10 years, they have all come down to poor installation practices or false expectations from the punter.
    Educate the punter and use professional installers and finishers. Ditch the know-all builder and fly by night installers and see the result of quality material and quality installation and finishing.

    As they say "pay peanuts, get monkeys".

    Also, every stick of my flooring runs through an inline moisture meter. Any boards that are too high (13%) get sprayed with black paint and are unusable for flooring.
    The so called Damp floor is not possible with this equipment.

    We are no longer in the stone age.
    We are at the fore-front of the industry with the gear and know-how to make a product that is far tighter in it's tolerances and moisture content range than stated in AS 2796 and AS 1080.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

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