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Solid Timber flooring direct stick to concrete

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  1. #1
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    Default Solid Timber flooring direct stick to concrete

    I want to lay about 55 sq meters of flooring directly to concrete, which I am trying to do a budget. The timber floor is for my granny flat/office/bar area down stairs. I have decided to direct stick because I dont have the ceiling height for plywood and dont like the drummy sound of a floating floor.

    I plan to seal the slab and glue with Bostik products.

    Next question is regarding timber.

    I have been looking at some of the solid strip timbers. (Range from 12 to 14mm thick), the tongue and grove are such that the sandable amout of timber is the same as 19mm structural flooring. Any words of warning or thumbs up regarding the thinner flooring for direct stick.

    Next question is what species of timber should I use? I want something that will be reasonably light to dark honey in colour.

    Species of timber price wise in acending order for select grades (ok excluding the pine which is not graded like hardwood)
    1. Pine, Baltic or Cypress
    2. Blackbutt,
    3. Blue Gum, Rose Gum
    4. Terpentine

    The wife actually likes the knotty appearance of the pine, and also like cheaper feature/character grades of some timbers. Hence features grades appear in the first instance attractive price wise.

    I am however concerned that I have been told that the feature grades require a coat of epoxy before sanding, to feel in any insect/knotty/sap veins etc. does anybody have any suggestions, or experiance using these so called character grade floors.

    Any thoughts / recommendations.

  2. #2
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    Don't know much about direct stick...(other than people on here generally saying its best left to the pro's)

    Here's a couple of pics of our floor that we just sanded and polished over the weekend, its cypress - a tone of knotts and heaps of colour variation between boards from light cream to a dark brown, with tinges of red and even pink inbetween... There was no need for us to flood fill any area's with epoxy...

    I replaced part of this floor with recycled boards because it was an extension and they had just used yellow tongue, the recycled boards look great and they only cost $1.20 per lm and it got cheaper the more you wanted for 50 sqm it would have been down around $0.80. Just an option i thought worth mentioning if you want to save some $ - you pay for it in pain of de-nailing the boards though!

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dinning1.jpg   hall.jpg   living1.jpg   living2.jpg  

  3. #3
    Hwd Flooring Manufacturer glock40sw's Avatar
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    G'day.

    I was in perth last week and saw how they install 12mm overlay direct to concrete.
    I must say that the process was surprisingly easy.

    They use Selleys VBS rolled onto the slab for the moisture membrane in the evening of the day before. The next morning they arrive and start laying the floor using Selleys direct stick adhesive. They use a 5mmx6mm notched trowel with the notches at 25mm centres.

    They spread 400mm of glue and install 5 runs of boards. they them drill a 6mm hole in the slab and pin a timber wedge to the floor. they then use another wedge to push against the first wedge and the floor. this pushes the boards together. they then pin the boards randomly with 3mmx25mm concrete nails.

    This sounds comfusing. But when you see it, it is really easy.

    They rekon that the plywood install used here in the east is 10 years behind the process used in the west.

    In Brisbane, call Northern Suburbs Timber Flooring at Brendale.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock40sw View Post
    G'day.
    They spread 400mm of glue and install 5 runs of boards. they them drill a 6mm hole in the slab and pin a timber wedge to the floor. they then use another wedge to push against the first wedge and the floor. this pushes the boards together. they then pin the boards randomly with 3mmx25mm concrete nails.

    This sounds comfusing. But when you see it, it is really easy.

    They rekon that the plywood install used here in the east is 10 years behind the process used in the west.

    In Brisbane, call Northern Suburbs Timber Flooring at Brendale.
    1. any brand recommendations eg selleys over bostick?
    2. The concrete nails sound like an interesting idea. I assume random nailing is to ensure you dont create a stress point in the concrete by nailing in nice straight lines. Are the concrete nails hand driven, I assume they are using quality concrete nails as well to get a nice finish especially to counter sink the heads.
    From what I understand you say lay 5 runs of boards, pin a couple pieces of timber down then drive wedges into get the timber (5 runs) in tight, then drive a couple nails for each board into concrete. You said 25mm nails was this for 19mm structural timber or strip boards 13mm thick?

  5. #5
    Hwd Flooring Manufacturer glock40sw's Avatar
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    All the nails were 3.3x25mm ramset brand,
    They use these for 12mm flooring.
    nails are punched 3mm below the top of the board. All done by hand.

    They only use Selleys Direct stick adhesive. I asked about Ultraset, but they like Selleys cause it sets solid and stops the boards from moving.

    random nailing is only for areas that drum. They tap the floor with the hammer and any drummy areas get the nails.

    The also lay the boards backwards.

    So, first board has the tongue toward the wall. This is so that the next board doesn't trap any glue as the tongue is rocked into the groove.

    I was sure they were pulling my leg intil I say them laying the floor. They are right. It does work.
    Last edited by glock40sw; 26th Feb 2008 at 08:47 PM. Reason: My spelling SUX
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

  6. #6
    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    Here is one that was done last year.

    - 80x13mm boral select grade spotted gum
    - sellys direct stick glue
    - polycure tung oil
    - gemini wax gloss

    installation method as descrbied but we had to concrete prep pior to application of vapour seal.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza View Post
    Here is one that was done last year.

    - 80x13mm boral select grade spotted gum
    - sellys direct stick glue
    - polycure tung oil
    - gemini wax gloss

    installation method as descrbied but we had to concrete prep pior to application of vapour seal.
    I brought some 12mm blackbutt "feature grade". Next problem installation know how.

    what kind of concrete prep did you need to do before putting the vapour seal down. I will be sealing my slab, just not too sure if it needs to be acid washed or anything beforehand.

  8. #8
    Hammer Head - 1K Club Member
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    it was an old slab that had direct stick carpet, we concrete ground the slab then applied a selaer followeed by a self leveling screed then applied the vapour barrier.

    the key to direct stick is to get it level, like pool table level because any divations will push the boards apart at the ends and between each row.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza View Post
    it was an old slab that had direct stick carpet, we concrete ground the slab then applied a selaer followeed by a self leveling screed then applied the vapour barrier.

    the key to direct stick is to get it level, like pool table level because any divations will push the boards apart at the ends and between each row.
    I am a little confused about the process.
    I would have assumed things would be done in the following order:
    1. grind back any obvious high spots, scrap any loose paint/plaster etc off the floor.
    2. self-leveling compound if required. I probably need some around the outside of my slab on some joins where the slab was extended.
    3. slab sealer/paint on vapour barrier.

  10. #10
    rob
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    just a thought but as you mentioned that it is for your office ,granny flat , ( ie ) a high impact /traffic area i would strongy suggest you use black butt as it has a much higher density rating than pine . And looks great i used two strip boral blackbutt in a apartment reno very happy with the finnish .

    rob

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jags View Post
    just a thought but as you mentioned that it is for your office ,granny flat , ( ie ) a high impact /traffic area i would strongy suggest you use black butt as it has a much higher density rating than pine . And looks great i used two strip boral blackbutt in a apartment reno very happy with the finnish .

    rob
    I brought some feature grade blackbutt which was cheap. I have not taken delivery yet so still a little concerned about how many and how big of a feature grade it will be. Hopefully I dont have to epoxy too many holes.

  12. #12
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    any recommendations for the best vapour barrier/glue combo. bostik v selleys?

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