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  1. #1
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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    I am finally getting around to doing my new bathroom. I have also posted in the homeone forums but you guys seem more active !

    This is what I started with:







    I have stripped the room and have come up with this design:



    I am going to be using 2 Bemuda tile grates; a 100mm in the shower the other in the main part of the ensuite is the 80mm.

    I am not sure about tiles but I am going to go to Beaumonts next week and have a look at what they have.

    The thing that I am not sure about is the water stop along (under) the fixed glass pane. I have seen showers where you can see the top of the aluminum strip, but I thought the idea was that the top of the strip sit proud of the tile surface to avoid water getting out.

    I have also seen this type of shower with the stepdown from the main floor:





    I am after some ideas on how I do the water proofing in the shower area. I am going to be getting wetseal guys to do the waterproofing but I need some pointers on what I need to get done before they arrive.

    Has anyone used the Gleda 'Waterstop Streamline' product ?

    If I do the step down shower (which I am leaning toward) is it just 50mm aluminum angle ? If the doorway had a 50mm angle water stop then the same angle would be used wall to wall along the shower - Yes ? I would then have fall to the shower drain and then fall to the drain in front of the vanity (cyan lines on drawing).

    Any help would be appreciated ! I am going to need it over the next few weeks.

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    I assume you are removing that timber floor and replacing it with 15 or 18mm FC sheeting or Scyon ?.
    I have seen to many disasters with timber floors in wet areas and would never consider to keep it.

    Before the waterproofing is done (I assume you are doing it under the screed?) is have your puddle flanges recessed and fixed firmly into the FC floor.

    Are you resheeting the walls ? if so, we sit these around 2-3mm off the FC flooring, to allow for slight expansion, and the waterpfoofers will use this gap to bond break the wall to floor junctions before bandaging them up.

    I am not sure about that streamline stuff it sticks up a bit.

    I like the idea of having your shower sit lower than the main floor, to confine the water to this area, have you thought about a strip drain in the shower either in the mid point with both ends flowing to the center or at the wall which backs onto the wardrobe.

    Our waterproofers / tilers prefer to work with a flexible plastic waterstop mounted directly to the floor and waterproofed over the junction (but not over the top of the strip), this is so they can trim it off to just below the tiles and grout over it so you don't see it, but it is up to your waterproofers, wetseal will have a preferred method they use.



    http://www.davco.com.au/images/speci...erproofing.pdf

    http://www.jameshardie.com.au/home/a...uction0906.pdf

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    I'm not at all surprised you have replace your bathroom, it looks like it was never waterproofed and on a timber floor too.

    The range of angles from 'Streamline' is wide but can be a bit expensive compared to existing materials and methods that have been tested by time.

    Don't bother trying to install puddle flanges, just have the hole in the floor ready, the Wet-seal Guys will recess them and install them with a warranty. I would advise installing 100 mm puddle flanges, the floor wast can be fitted with a "smart waste" and be almost invisible, they also look great in the shower.

    Wet-seal use Aluminium angles for most jobs because unlike PVC the waterproofing membrane adheres better and there is less movement.

    The whole floor and the wall to floor interface will be sealed/treated as well at the sheet joins in shower walls and corners.

    You can reduce the amount of work and materials by installing a 50 mm angle in the shower, and eliminating the need to screed most of the floor area, 50 mm angle is part covered by the floor tiles and leaves a small step of only 35 mm.

    Also note, if you do remove the timber floor and replace it with sheeting as Metix advised (+1), don't bother to do any sealing on the surface, Wet-seal will do all of this, it's all included.

    You can click on the link at the bottom of this page and download the booklet on waterproofing, it has some good shots of how to do the work.

    Keep thoes pictures coming too.

    Good luck.
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    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Thanks for the responses guys.

    I will try and dig out some photos that were take a few months back but, yes, the timber floor has been ripped out and I have replaced with 19mm Scion FC sheeting. I have ripped out all the wall material ready to resheet. I was waiting to see what vanity I would get and now that I have that I can start building walls etc. The room did not originally look as it does in the floor plan - it had an open entry, no wall. I want to keep the steam in the bathroom so will be building a wall with cavity slider.

    Oldsaltoz - can you please explain this a bit further ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    You can reduce the amount of work and materials by installing a 50 mm angle in the shower, and eliminating the need to screed most of the floor area, 50 mm angle is part covered by the floor tiles and leaves a small step of only 35 mm.
    I assume this means the 50mm angle along the glass edge of the shower and across the doorway ? What about across the doorway - I assumed this would be 50mm as well, ie. lifting the whole bathroom floor with screed. Then I would fall the floor in front of the vanity, shower glass, shower doorway to that drain and then drop down the shower floor past the 50mm angle in the shower and fall the whole shower floor to the shower drain.

    I am going to download the AS from uni today (benefits of being a postgrad student - I get SAI Global access for free ) to look at falls but I think it is 1:100 outside the shower and 1:60 to 1:80 inside. I am not sure what the minimum depth of screed will be, this will dictate how low the centre waste will be in the shower recess, the 1:60 fall will then dictate the height of screes at the step down into the shower.

    I have read that the angle should not be screwed down due to galvanic corrosion issues, I can't see that this would be an issue if I were to use stainless screws against the aluminum and screw it down on to a Sikiflex base.

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    Oldsaltoz - can you please explain this a bit further ?
    Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz
    You can reduce the amount of work and materials by installing a 50 mm angle in the shower, and eliminating the need to screed most of the floor area, 50 mm angle is part covered by the floor tiles and leaves a small step of only 35 mm.




    I assume this means the 50mm angle along the glass edge of the shower and across the doorway ? What about across the doorway - I assumed this would be 50mm as well, ie. lifting the whole bathroom floor with screed.

    No, I mean settle for a 35 mm step into the shower and reduce the amount of screed required to cover the bathroom floor. This would also mean no step at in the entry door, just a 10 or 12 mm alloy angle.

    I have read that the angle should not be screwed down due to galvanic corrosion issues, I can't see that this would be an issue if I were to use stainless screws against the aluminium and screw it down on to a Sikaflex base.

    Do not screw down the angles, any material other aluminium of the same grade will suffer form electrolysis and break down, this can be reduced with a coating containing Zinc, but this could effect the adhesion of the waterproofing membrane.

    All angles are stuck down with Sikaflex 11FC of other suitable adhesive / sealants.

    As my name implies this oldsalt has in around and under boats for most of my life and I can assure you reaction between any metal other than aluminium is a major problem, Monel is a close match and has less reaction than most other metals, but is expensive.

    Screeding the shower base with a standard screed mix will be all but impossible as it needs a minimum depth of 25 to 30 mm. However a tile leveling compound with a little clean sand added to stop it slumping is good, and cures much faster too.

    Good luck.


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    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    So I'm still a bit confused. I assumed I would have a fall in the floor outside the vanity area and that this would mean a 50mm step up from the bedroom (which I dont mind):



    My fall calcs give me a roughly 10mm fall over the 905 from door to drain and shower glass to drain in front of vanity.

    Then in the shower I have a 10mm fall from wall of recess to shower drain and glass to shower drain.







    So the brown line is top of screed, I then allow for 10mm of tile/adhesive on top to give me a 10mm stepdown into shower recess.

    All of this relies on a 50mm finished tile height above the existing floor.

    I am making the assumption here that I will step down into the shower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    No, I mean settle for a 35 mm step into the shower and reduce the amount of screed required to cover the bathroom floor. This would also mean no step at in the entry door, just a 10 or 12 mm alloy angle.
    Just so that I am sure - are we both talking about a step down or a step up into the shower ? Now I am really confused !!


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    Quote Originally Posted by ilium007 View Post
    Just so that I am sure - are we both talking about a step down or a step up into the shower ? Now I am really confused !!

    I am talking about having a 35 mm step up into the shower and no step at all into the room and saving a lot screed mixing and spreading.

    But if you really want a step down shower you will need a 50 mm step up at the entry door. This can be a hazard and come up in talks with waterproofing Standards Group in the past with a view to ban them.

    Good lick.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Ahh ok - I will re-plan tomorrow ! Thanks again for your advice to date.

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Also, with the Bemuda floor waste (the one with tile insert) is the chrome part meant to sit flush with the puddle flange? It can slide up and down. Do you push it in all the way to the puddle flange to get the lowest part of the shower ?

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    The chrome part sits flush with the tiles.

    Here's one at my house now.






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    Yes - I know the chrome is flush with tiles. What I need to know is when I screed the floor do I push the chrome fitting down as far as it will go into the plastic puddle flange or not. Why do other brand devices have the waste adjustable up and down ? Some even have a course thread that adjusts the waste finish height.

    I need 25-30mm of screed at the lowest point and assumed I would get that by adjusting this waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    I am talking about having a 35 mm step up into the shower and no step at all into the room and saving a lot screed mixing and spreading.

    But if you really want a step down shower you will need a 50 mm step up at the entry door. This can be a hazard and come up in talks with waterproofing Standards Group in the past with a view to ban them.

    Good lick.
    Just thinking about this some more. If I go down this route would I end end with any fall on the floor outside the shower area or is this floor flat ? It will also have a puddle flange and Bemuda tile grate.

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    If you have a waste outside the shower you must provide fall to it , important if its not ground floor.

    I would put a 25mm waterstop at the doorway another around the recess and use Ardex A45 for the screed, its non slumping can be used to screed wall or floors and can be feathered to 1mm at your wastes,
    step into the 21st century guys

    A45 will be fully dry in 90 mins but in 30 mins u can stand on it and profile it with a bladed scraper.

    BTW if ur using burmuda hidden tile wastes u will have to recess them or your screed will be 45mm

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    If you have a waste outside the shower you must provide fall to it , important if its not ground floor.

    I would put a 25mm waterstop at the doorway another around the recess and use Ardex A45 for the screed, its non slumping can be used to screed wall or floors and can be feathered to 1mm at your wastes,
    step into the 21st century guys

    A45 will be fully dry in 90 mins but in 30 mins u can stand on it and profile it with a bladed scraper.

    BTW if ur using burmuda hidden tile wastes u will have to recess them or your screed will be 45mm
    Ok cool. Will take a look at the Ardex product today. When you say it can be profiled what do you mean exactly ? How accurate does the screed need to be ? I assumed any imperfections could be taken up with tile adhesive ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    If you have a waste outside the shower you must provide fall to it , important if its not ground floor.

    I would put a 25mm waterstop at the doorway another around the recess and use Ardex A45 for the screed, its non slumping can be used to screed wall or floors and can be feathered to 1mm at your wastes,
    step into the 21st century guys

    A45 will be fully dry in 90 mins but in 30 mins u can stand on it and profile it with a bladed scraper.

    BTW if ur using burmuda hidden tile wastes u will have to recess them or your screed will be 45mm
    So just on the Bemuda tile waste ? Are you talking about the plastic puddle flange being recessed a few mm or do you mean the whole thing needs to be recessed into the floor ? As in, cut a square (100mm or whatever the plastic flange size is) and drop the whole device 20mm ? I thought flying planes around the sky was hard - this is hurting my brain 10x more !!!

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    Just found another thread on homeone.com.au showing a Metricon home being built.

    They seem to put the brass part of the Bemuda waste in after screed and tiling (Our Metricon Nolan 41 Journey: Tiling Continues).... This doesnt look correct to me and given the Bounty Brass website has zero technical PDF's or installtion digrams I am now not sure what order these fitting go in...

    img_2952.jpg

    Whereas on this site they show the brass portino of the grate in place at screeding time ( View topic - My New...ish house in Toowoomba build story • Home Renovation & Building Forum

    dsc00422.jpg

    Does anyone have advice on how these get installed ?

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    I screed around then remove, waterproof .tile then put waste in last with glue adhesive.(sets the height perfect)

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Ahh - that sounds like a smart (no pun intended) way of doing it ! Cheers.

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    So thinking about this Bermuda waste step down - is this what you are talking about ? If I drop the floor waste I can lower the screed on the bathroom floors. Is this something that is commonly done ?

    puddle_flange_1.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    I screed around then remove, waterproof .tile then put waste in last with glue adhesive.(sets the height perfect)
    I would have thought the grate hieght adjuster that comes with the puddle flange would have perfect, or am I missing something?

    Good luck.
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    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    What is the height adjuster ? It just comes with a plastic puddle flange, a chromed brass floor grate that simply slides up and down and the tile insert.

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    Correct, its nothin like a "rocktop"

    Quote Originally Posted by ilium007 View Post
    What is the height adjuster ? It just comes with a plastic puddle flange, a chromed brass floor grate that simply slides up and down and the tile insert.

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    Quote(What is the height adjuster ? It just comes with a plastic puddle flange, a chromed brass floor grate that simply slides up and down and the tile insert.) end Quote.

    More importantly the grate height adjuster also ensures propper drainage of the base at leaves a small gap between the holder and the puddle flange.

    Good luck.


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    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    Correct, its nothin like a "rocktop"
    Helpful - I have already purchased Bermuda wastes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    Quote(What is the height adjuster ? It just comes with a plastic puddle flange, a chromed brass floor grate that simply slides up and down and the tile insert.) end Quote.

    More importantly the grate height adjuster also ensures propper drainage of the base at leaves a small gap between the holder and the puddle flange.

    Good luck.



    So I still dont know what this "grate height adjuster" is....

    The Bermuda is a plastic puddle flage with a chrome grate that slides in. Thats it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilium007 View Post
    So I still dont know what this "grate height adjuster" is....

    The Bermuda is a plastic puddle flage with a chrome grate that slides in. Thats it.
    I suspect we are talking about the same thing, the Bermuda waste is much like a 'smart tile' waste, the plastic holder slides down into the puddle flange and can be set to range of diferent heightd, but still leave a small cap between the inner wall of the puddle flange housing and the plastic grate holder.

    Good luck.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Ok cool

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    Not really, any waterproofed floor is not going to drain unless it has pre-slope or its waterproofed on top of the screed AND has weep holes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post

    More importantly the grate height adjuster also ensures propper drainage of the base at leaves a small gap between the holder and the puddle flange.

    Good luck.



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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    Not really, any waterproofed floor is not going to drain unless it has pre-slope or its waterproofed on top of the screed AND has weep holes.
    It is common trade practice & required when waterproofing to the standard to leave a gap for drainage under the floor grate / waste so that any water can drain into the safewaste tray & not be trapped under the screed.
    regards inter

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    Like I said it dosent drain it pools in the screed, unless there is a preslope OR the waterproofing is applied on top of the screed with the gradients directing water to the puddle flange.

    Ive dug up 100's of screeds,/recess floors to know this is the case.

    What you suggest sounds good in THEORY but it dosent happen when wastes are fitted.
    Its not trade practice nor is it a requirement of the waterproofing code.




    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    It is common trade practice & required when waterproofing to the standard to leave a gap for drainage under the floor grate / waste so that any water can drain into the safewaste tray & not be trapped under the screed.
    regards inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    Like I said it dosent drain it pools in the screed, unless there is a preslope OR the waterproofing is applied on top of the screed with the gradients directing water to the puddle flange.

    Ive dug up 100's of screeds,/recess floors to know this is the case.

    What you suggest sounds good in THEORY but it dosent happen when wastes are fitted.
    Its not trade practice nor is it a requirement of the waterproofing code.
    As I haven't the latest standard & can only go off memory, the standard has details about how the waterproofing has to be turned down into the waste pipe / safewaste tray & to allow clearance under the floor grate for any moisture to be able to drain from the screed or under the screed to go down the waste & normal trade practice in the industry I've been in. I have never yet seen a waterproofing membrane applied on top of a screed in 35 years in the building industry, I know about it being possible & had plenty of tilers offer to to it, but because it isn't included in the body of standard their services were declined. The only way water will pool under a screed is if the screed fails & there is many ways for that to happen.
    Regards inter

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    I have the last 2 standards it mentions nothing of providing a gap, it is impossible to do with drop in wastes which are the norm , adjustable wastes break eventually and are rarley used due to clearance issues , they sit up far to high.
    Puddle flanges are now required due to drop in wastes braking the waterproofing membrane which has been turned down into the waste pipe.

    Regards

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    What I can definitely say about what standard says is that screeds & tiles are porous & moisture will penetrate them in a downward & outward direction, moisture is caught by the waterproofing membrane which becomes a reservoir, now common sense & trade practice will tell you that by allowing a point at the floor waste for this moisture to be drained away is a good practice, to have this intersection sealed is creating a ponding effect = bad practice.
    regards inter

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    Hence why its good practise to waterproof the top of the screed

    Could you elaborate on how you would fix/set a drop in waste and maintain this airspace in the puddle flange ?

    Regards

    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    What I can definitely say about what standard says is that screeds & tiles are porous & moisture will penetrate them in a downward & outward direction, moisture is caught by the waterproofing membrane which becomes a reservoir, now common sense & trade practice will tell you that by allowing a point at the floor waste for this moisture to be drained away is a good practice, to have this intersection sealed is creating a ponding effect = bad practice.
    regards inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    Hence why its good practise to waterproof the top of the screed

    Could you elaborate on how you would fix/set a drop in waste and maintain this airspace in the puddle flange ?

    Regards
    If it such good practice to waterproof over the screed why isn't clearly described in the standard? or be a standard practice in the industry? How do you install an effective bond breaker joint at the wall perimeters which will resist movement without a screed to hide a bulky joint, how do you apply adhesive with a trowel to the floor without touching the membrane & possibly damaging it?
    here is how a floor grate is normally done.


    Screed is laid over membrane with a block out down floor waste pipe, tiles laid leaving tiles around waste grate last, piece of foam pushed into hole in screed, waste grate set in tile adhesive & tiles cut & laid to floor waste, once adhesive set foam removed.
    But then I am relatively only a novice at this building game compared to some & maybe missing the benefits of your system.
    regards inter
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    Many of the waterproofing products state it can be above or below the screed.
    The membrane if applied correctly can easily withstand troweling glue over it.
    or if your paranoid the adhesive can be applied to the tile and then placed.

    So how do you protect you waterproofing membrane when applying a screed over it?
    only wear socks?
    another reason mine goes over the top.
    I never wear boots tiling over my membrane.

    As for bondbreakers the standard neutral cure silicon and fibreglass matt work fine ,in my 15 years of tiling ive never had a leak.

    With your system a leak from crappy silicon in an expansion joint or pinholes in the grout could have water permeating the screed a long way from the waste, the screed would be substantially saturated before it makes its way to the puddle flange.

    Evidence of this is clearly seen when efflorescence /calcium oozing up thru the grout.
    Not to mention the mouldy musky smell.

    I will give your sponge idea a go, so far ive tried gravel, and straws to allow water easy access to the puddle flange.
    But im pretty sure the water weeps thru the tile adhesive any way, confirmed by plenty of bathroom recess demos

    Regards














    Quote Originally Posted by intertd6 View Post
    If it such good practice to waterproof over the screed why isn't clearly described in the standard? or be a standard practice in the industry? How do you install an effective bond breaker joint at the wall perimeters which will resist movement without a screed to hide a bulky joint, how do you apply adhesive with a trowel to the floor without touching the membrane & possibly damaging it?
    here is how a floor grate is normally done.


    Screed is laid over membrane with a block out down floor waste pipe, tiles laid leaving tiles around waste grate last, piece of foam pushed into hole in screed, waste grate set in tile adhesive & tiles cut & laid to floor waste, once adhesive set foam removed.
    But then I am relatively only a novice at this building game compared to some & maybe missing the benefits of your system.
    regards inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    I have the last 2 standards it mentions nothing of providing a gap, it is impossible to do with drop in wastes which are the norm , adjustable wastes break eventually and are rarley used due to clearance issues , they sit up far to high.
    Puddle flanges are now required due to drop in wastes braking the waterproofing membrane which has been turned down into the waste pipe.
    Regards
    Then you will also know that the installation of a puddle flange is now compulsory. All puddle flanges come with an adjustable grate holder, the the stem (pipe) of the grate holder is around 20 mm smaller on a 100 mm flange, this gap is for the drainage of the screed or any other moisture that does not flow through the waste grate.

    I hope this clears up a few questions.

    Good luck.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    We both know as of last year puddle flanges are compulsory .
    most puddle flanges dont come with adjustable grate holders , a quick look at a hardware store or tradelink would confirm that.

    The only time they come with adjustable grate holders is when they are packaged together, like the burmuda smart tile waste or a rocktop.
    On the burmuda the adjustable grate holder is an interference fit and very snug, with no cut outs for the water its design is flawed.
    Ive taken to drilling my own holes to provide flow.

    The standards/code need to be fixed ......


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    Then you will also know that the installation of a puddle flange is now compulsory. All puddle flanges come with an adjustable grate holder, the the stem (pipe) of the grate holder is around 20 mm smaller on a 100 mm flange, this gap is for the drainage of the screed or any other moisture that does not flow through the waste grate.

    I hope this clears up a few questions.

    Good luck.

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    It just goes to show how much difference there is between the construction sector & the short cuts in the bathroom renovation market.
    regards inter

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilium007 View Post
    So I still dont know what this "grate height adjuster" is....

    The Bermuda is a plastic puddle flage with a chrome grate that slides in. Thats it.
    My suggestion would be to either have a professional tiler do your screed for you and you can tile to your hearts content after this (if you are trying to save money).
    Or preferably have a professional tiler do the entire job for you.

    My reasons for this is that you have already experienced a major fail, which is now costing you many thousands to fix, obviously you are not a tiler and don't entirely understand the process of puddle flanges, water stops, bond breaking etc then why would you take the risk and try to use a forum to give you all the experience necessary to complete your job and be 100% sure you have done the right thing ?

    illium Please don't take offense but I think it's ludicrous to do what you are doing, without the required experience, tiling / screeding / waterproofing, getting the correct falls etc is an art form and needs to be done correctly to ensure a reliable finish is achieved, and this can only come with years of industry experience, im all for people giving things a go, ut bathrooms which involve waterproofing etc are best left to the professionals.

    Water has a tendency to get through any little flaw you may overlook, and this usually ends up in disaster as you have already experienced.

    We always used licensed tilers / waterproofers, in fact the tilers we use are licensed waterproofers, this way they do the entire job from the waterproof to the screed to the tiling, if there were ever any problems (which there has not been so far) then it would be one point of call to have it rectified.

    IMO using a foam rod is so out of date it's not funny, technology has moved on to built in bond breakers, sikaflex bond breakers and other easier / reliable methods, I have never seen anyone use foam rod for any of our jobs, and with all the bathroom jobs we have done we have not had a recall for any leaks.

    Good quality / reliable finish work starts with good work practices.

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    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    My suggestion would be to either have a professional tiler do your screed for you and you can tile to your hearts content after this (if you are trying to save money).
    Or preferably have a professional tiler do the entire job for you.

    My reasons for this is that you have already experienced a major fail, which is now costing you many thousands to fix, obviously you are not a tiler and don't entirely understand the process of puddle flanges, water stops, bond breaking etc then why would you take the risk and try to use a forum to give you all the experience necessary to complete your job and be 100% sure you have done the right thing ?

    illium Please don't take offense but I think it's ludicrous to do what you are doing, without the required experience, tiling / screeding / waterproofing, getting the correct falls etc is an art form and needs to be done correctly to ensure a reliable finish is achieved, and this can only come with years of industry experience, im all for people giving things a go, ut bathrooms which involve waterproofing etc are best left to the professionals.

    Water has a tendency to get through any little flaw you may overlook, and this usually ends up in disaster as you have already experienced.

    We always used licensed tilers / waterproofers, in fact the tilers we use are licensed waterproofers, this way they do the entire job from the waterproof to the screed to the tiling, if there were ever any problems (which there has not been so far) then it would be one point of call to have it rectified.

    IMO using a foam rod is so out of date it's not funny, technology has moved on to built in bond breakers, sikaflex bond breakers and other easier / reliable methods, I have never seen anyone use foam rod for any of our jobs, and with all the bathroom jobs we have done we have not had a recall for any leaks.

    Good quality / reliable finish work starts with good work practices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post


    IMO using a foam rod is so out of date it's not funny, technology has moved on to built in bond breakers, sikaflex bond breakers and other easier / reliable methods, I have never seen anyone use foam rod for any of our jobs, and with all the bathroom jobs we have done we have not had a recall for any leaks.

    Good quality / reliable finish work starts with good work practices.
    thats a bold statement, & not really indicative of the industry , I believe the largest waterproofing company in Australia still uses backing rod & a lot of waterproofers that used different systems are now going back to using backing rod in the bond breaker as it gives that extra margin for expansion or contraction of the membrane,
    your dead right with the last statement.
    regards inter

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    Hi quicl question tat is slightly off topic...can the tiler also install the showerbase amd shower screen? or should these jobs be left to the plumber? I'm trying to figure out who does what besides the more obvious jobs. thanks

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    plumber or chippie for the base and anybody for the screens

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    Default Finally fixing my destroyed bathroom !

    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    plumber or chippie for the base and anybody for the screens
    +1

    But I would say chippie because he will be the one who would build the frame to suit and also the subfloor under the showerbase.

    Not all showerbases are the same so better he does it at the same time.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

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    It was a perfect renovation of the complete bathroom. Nice efforts put in the whole place, do post the pictures of the completed makeover when finished with everything.

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    About to start a bathroom renovation and came across this thread. It raises one of the issues I've been thinking about, whether the waterproof membrane should be on top or under the screed. I'm just a DIY and at this point I have little knowledge of the standards and the ins and outs of bathroom construction/waterproofing etc. It does make sense to me however that the waterproofing go on top of the screed, my reason being that tiles/grout are porous and it's inevitable that some water is going to get under the tiles. Sure the waterproofing under the screed protects the substrate as the water makes it's way through the screed, but over time, with continual wetting/drying won't the screed be compromised, isn't it just a matter of time before tiles start lifting etc.

    I also came across the National Tiles DIY videos on youtube and their waterproofing video has the membrane on top of the screed. See Waterproofing: National Tiles DIY Tiling 15 - YouTube I'm not endorsing them in anyway (they do some things in their videos that I would consider bad practice), but it's interesting that they put the membrane on top of the screed.

    Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see how the Bermuda smart grate can drain any water getting under the tiles, unless the membrane is under the screed. Earlier in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by heavytrevy View Post
    On the burmuda the adjustable grate holder is an interference fit and very snug, with no cut outs for the water its design is flawed.
    Ive taken to drilling my own holes to provide flow.

    The standards/code need to be fixed ......
    Referring to this pic of the Bermuda grate Vincent Buda Bermuda Smart Tile where would you drill the holes?

    DIY often means overkill. For extra insurance has anyone ever done or actually considered waterproofing both under and on top of the screed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dclayw View Post
    About to start a bathroom renovation and came across this thread. It raises one of the issues I've been thinking about, whether the waterproof membrane should be on top or under the screed. I'm just a DIY and at this point I have little knowledge of the standards and the ins and outs of bathroom construction/waterproofing etc. It does make sense to me however that the waterproofing go on top of the screed, my reason being that tiles/grout are porous and it's inevitable that some water is going to get under the tiles. Sure the waterproofing under the screed protects the substrate as the water makes it's way through the screed, but over time, with continual wetting/drying won't the screed be compromised, isn't it just a matter of time before tiles start lifting etc.

    I also came across the National Tiles DIY videos on youtube and their waterproofing video has the membrane on top of the screed. See Waterproofing: National Tiles DIY Tiling 15 - YouTube I'm not endorsing them in anyway (they do some things in their videos that I would consider bad practice), but it's interesting that they put the membrane on top of the screed.

    Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see how the Bermuda smart grate can drain any water getting under the tiles, unless the membrane is under the screed. Earlier in this thread:



    Referring to this pic of the Bermuda grate Vincent Buda Bermuda Smart Tile where would you drill the holes?

    DIY often means overkill. For extra insurance has anyone ever done or actually considered waterproofing both under and on top of the screed?
    Hi dclayw;914456,

    You might get answers faster if you make a new posting rather a tagging this one.

    Good luck.
    .
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    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Yeah I could start a new thread and I do hate hijacking other peoples threads, but that's not what I'm doing in this case. My questions and the info I offered are directly related to this thread.

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