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HELP! cement sheet & stump advice

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  1. #1
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    Default HELP! cement sheet & stump advice

    In my bathroom renovation I have had 4 different opinions from tradies.....

    1) Chippy build my floor without replacing the stump. the room is 2m by 1.8m using 90 x 45 and was told any span more than 1500mm requires a stump. Do I need a stump?

    2) I have had three different opinions from 3 tilers to (a) rondo battening a wall prior to sheeting, (b) using masonry adhesive to hold sheet on wall and (3) getting a rendered in a have acrylic render on all masonry walls. Obviously masonry adhesive is the cheapest easiest and best way to ensure flat surface. is it a legitimate solution?

  2. #2
    Resigned SilentButDeadly's Avatar
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    Default HELP! cement sheet & stump advice

    1. Yes

    2. No. Pick a) and be prepared to pack behind rondo. More an opinion than a professional opinion.
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  3. #3
    Old Chippy 6K
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    mmm - not enough information really, but here goes.

    1) Why not just use slightly larger joists and no stump? Given that it is not simply a stump, but a new bearer as well and the labour and costs that go with that.

    2) It seems you have all masonry walls. Are they square & perpendicular and flat - depending how much they are not - then battening or simply gluing sheets is the option. I assume that the acrylic render option is in lieu of tiles and not as the substrate for tiles? Unless the walls are really out of whack a good tiler with a suitable high-build adhesive can set the tiles true anyway. My guys can deal with variations of 6-7mm and at a pinch up to 10mm, but they all learnt their trade when tiles were set in mortar on walls too.

    In any case you will need to fully waterproof to meet the BCA.
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

  4. #4
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    1) (I think the assumption is that it's MGP10, but that's not the only option) A higher grade of joist timber, or sistering/laminating current joists with another will easily span 1.8.
    2) If you are tiling, and choose to add cement sheet to the walls, it needs proper hardware, more than just glue.

  5. #5
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    2) If you are tiling, and choose to add cement sheet to the walls, it needs proper hardware, more than just glue.
    +1

  6. #6
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    Masonary adhesive isnt just glue. it is a gyprock adhesive used for attaching cement sheeting to masonry. But wasnt sure if suitable for the weight of tiling.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloss View Post
    mmm - not enough information really, but here goes.

    1) Why not just use slightly larger joists and no stump? Given that it is not simply a stump, but a new bearer as well and the labour and costs that go with that.

    2) It seems you have all masonry walls. Are they square & perpendicular and flat - depending how much they are not - then battening or simply gluing sheets is the option. I assume that the acrylic render option is in lieu of tiles and not as the substrate for tiles? Unless the walls are really out of whack a good tiler with a suitable high-build adhesive can set the tiles true anyway. My guys can deal with variations of 6-7mm and at a pinch up to 10mm, but they all learnt their trade when tiles were set in mortar on walls too.

    In any case you will need to fully waterproof to meet the BCA.
    The walls arent square. they are still rendered from 1.5m up the previous owner. Dont want to strip that off. But walls are not 100%. battening will be difficult to get flat which is why I was told to use Gyprock Masonry adhesive as it will be easy to level the sheets. Render is 20mm thick so with a 9mm cement sheet ill have 11mm tolerance. Hence why this is favourable to me. Was told a tiler should be able to til over the join between sheet and render.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodster View Post
    ...But wasnt sure if suitable for the weight of tiling.
    Well, that's my point

    "Glue, by a hundred other names, is still glue", Anon (or I just made that up)

  9. #9
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Read the villaboard bathroom installation guides by James Hardie. They say not to adhesive for tiled areas.

  10. #10
    Golden Member Watters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Read the villaboard bathroom installation guides by James Hardie. They say not to adhesive for tiled areas.
    They do indeed say not to use adhesive where a framed villaboard wall is going to be tiled.

    Here's the link to the James Hardie Villaboard Lining Manual:

    http://www.jameshardie.com.au/upload...20OCT%2014.pdf

    Note the nailing pattern for tiled walls, Figure 10 on page 9 refers and the correct fasteners must be used for the thickness of villaboard being installed (page 8 refers).

    And here is the link to the James Hardie Wet Area Construction guide:

    http://www.jameshardie.com.au/upload...ber%202012.pdf

  11. #11
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    I had that but as you will note the hardie manual only addresses timber frames walls not masonry attachment. To put an entire timber frame inside a solid bricke room would loose a sig fiacnt amounf of the room area not to mention make the walls close to a foot thick at the door and window. This isnt a suitable outcome either. Hence the other solutions

  12. #12
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    Either Rondo, or timber battens fixed onto the masonry first, then sheet over this.

    We use timber battens as they are easier to fix the villaboard to.

    Definitely no to masonry adhesive only, this is a great product but designed for adhering Gyprock to masonry walls, not sure how it would go fixing villaboard, but I will admit once the board is stuck as pr manufacturers instructions, you would need a tank to remove the sheet.
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  13. #13
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    I wonder if masonry 'anka screws' at recommended spacings would do the trick through the villaboard?

  14. #14
    Je pense, donc METRIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    I wonder if masonry 'anka screws' at recommended spacings would do the trick through the villaboard?
    No, because you would need to use so many that it would be uneconomical,.
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    No, because you would need to use so many that it would be uneconomical,.
    Money should never get in the way of over-engineering

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  17. #17
    Old Chippy 6K
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    What Metrix said . . .
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

  18. #18
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    Spaghetti plugs and gal screws?


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    No, because you would need to use so many that it would be uneconomical,.
    Actually, in the whole context of a full bathroom renovation budget, these screws won't hurt one's economy too much. If the other alternative is rondo battens, still have to buy and fix the battens physically somehow in any case...

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