Hire the best Bathroom Renovator

Help. WHAT DO I DO.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 81
  1. #1
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Angry Help. WHAT DO I DO.

    HOW am I suppose to know that this UNobvious line means they have changed the design plans on me?

    What do I do? I am so mad. I asked the guy when he came around to measure for the cupboard if there would be a dividing wall between the cupboards. He said no. I asked specifically a few times, because I did not want this. I would have kept looking for someone who could do it without out it, or I would have changed the plan entirely.

    I called him up and he said that on the plan there is a line and I should have known that he changed it to add a wall in one cupboard space. I asked him why he did not tell me. NO EXPLANATION except that was the only way it could be done; WHAT did I think they would hang the door off? He asks.

    I ask him why he comes around and measures cupboards and tells me he can do it this way, if in fact he can't? Doesn't he know how the cupboards need to be made? He tells me not to go around throwing insults. I tell him it's a simple question. I want to know this. Why didn't he call me, put off making the cupboard if he had to, just to let me know that what we agreed on couldn't go ahead.

    He pulls out the drawing and says, there is an extra line there, WHAT did I think that was? pfft how am I suppose to know this. It is a tiny line, that I DID NOT NOTICE. As if I would have looked at it and thought, hey there's an extra line, it must mean they are putting a wall in there.

    It was suppose to be 800mm in the half cupboard hanging space, that joins to the next two full length hanging space cupboards. It is pointless having the half one when it is single and a wall between. Just doesn't work, why I asked specifically not to have it.


    Mind you the 800mm is a couple of cm off.

    I AM JUST SOO MAD, I don't know what to do.

  2. #2
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Yeah but what do you expect them to hang the door off?

  3. #3
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Yeah but what do you expect them to hang the door off?
    Honestly, you can't be serious. Why would I ask if they could do it without a wall, if I was to know and thus expect how the door needs to be hung.

    Not funny.

  4. #4
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Well, without actually seeing what you're ranting about, it's hard to say.

    It's OK to carry on about it but either he didn't understand you or he's made a mistake in saying it can be done that way and discovered later that it couldn't. Point is, it's immaterial what he might have said, the fact is you need something to hang the door off. You can get upset about it, or you can change your plan, or you can go find someone else who can do it the way you want. It probably needs a mullion or a face frame or something to hang the door off. Or maybe sliding doors would solve it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Well, without actually seeing what you're ranting about, it's hard to say.

    It's OK to carry on about it but either he didn't understand you or he's made a mistake in saying it can be done that way and discovered later that it couldn't. Point is, it's immaterial what he might have said, the fact is you need something to hang the door off. You can get upset about it, or you can change your plan, or you can go find someone else who can do it the way you want. It probably needs a mullion or a face frame or something to hang the door off. Or maybe sliding doors would solve it.
    Okay, but in my rant did you miss that I asked him if there would be a wall there? That he told me no. That I asked him a few times specifically because I do not want one... oh and if he was wrong AND he did not know, does that not mean he should call and let me know when he discovers that he can't do it the way I want?

    For the bolded bit, yes, if I had been told that he had to put a wall up, then I would have had the opportunity to go and find someone else who could do it the way I want or change the plans.

    It has already been installed. WITHOUT notification of the change. He won't fix it now. Sliding doors won't help.

  6. #6
    ......say what? martrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    44
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Do a scan of the drawings in question (or take a photo of them) and post them up here.......then we can advise.
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Ah, you neglected to mention that last bit. Well, in that case, you can either dispute it with him and tell him it's not what you wanted, not what you asked for and not what he agreed to deliver.

    Obviously he either didn't understand how important it was to you, or he assumed you'd get over it.

  8. #8
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    He won't fix it now
    Have you paid him for it?

  9. #9
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Paid 50% deposit.

    Here is a scan of the drawing. I will take a pic of the actual cupboard and post.





  10. #10
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kuranda, paradise, North Qld
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,782

    Default

    Makka,
    from what I can see, there's two points where a misunderstanding has probably arisen.
    1) You not being conversant with symbols etc used in plans. The plan clearly shows that there are two seperate units, the smaller unit having one door and the larger two.
    2) The cabinetmaker may have thought that when you asked if there was to be a wall between the two units you were asking whether there would be a stud frame with gyprock either side, or perhaps a brick wall or whatever your house construction is. Strictly speaking there is no "wall" between the two units, just the components that make up the units. Semantics? perhaps.

    Let's just suppose for a moment though that he had built it as one unit instead of two, which would have made it an absolute bastard to transport and install and probably more expensive. He would have had to fit a mullion instead to hang the door from. This would still not give you clear access from one section to the other so I really can't see what you would have gained besides an extra 32mm of cupboard width.

    I would have built it eactly the same way. Possibly I would have gone to more trouble to ensure that I understood what you were saying and that you understood the drawing, but if you'd asked me to make it with a mullion instead of two seperate sections I would have explained that I would need to asemble it on site and that it would cost you more.

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  11. #11
    ......say what? martrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    44
    Posts
    160

    Default

    see pic..

    It looks like the partition is on the drawing which you signed off on?

    Is the cabinet one piece, or two cabinets (a thin one and a wide one) scredwed together?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails aaa.jpg  
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    The other problem you would have there is support for the shelves above. 1500 is a bit wide to span with no intermediate support.

  13. #13
    Senior Member JDub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    43
    Posts
    397

    Default

    Sorry makka but if your referring to the 'line' that matrix has drawn an arrow too, to me its pretty obviously a wall/divider of some sort.... I know very little about design plans and cupboards but it sure looks like a wall on the plan to me.........
    I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

  14. #14
    Resigned SilentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Not here...
    Posts
    5,155

    Default

    With that door arrangement, I'm knackered if I can see anyway of getting away from the divider over the drawers between between the half height and full height wardrobe area without risking:
    a) the stability (and therefore lifespan) of the left main door; and
    b) the weight capacity of the top shelves.

    Of course, Old Mate CabinetMaker could have put a small riser in there to carry the hinge instead of the complete divider but would that have made you any happier?
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  15. #15
    ......say what? martrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    44
    Posts
    160

    Default

    There are most definitely ways of doing it the way makka wanted, but all of them would definitely cost more than what he paid for what he got.

    Why was it so critical to have the space open?
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  16. #16
    3K Club Member johnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
    Age
    66
    Posts
    3,973

    Default

    Sorry also Makka, it looks exactly like a divider to me, can't get any clearer than that. It is unfortunate that you have misunderstood a fairly basic drawing and feel hard done by, but the cabinet maker seems to have provided you with what you needed to work things out. Perhaps he misunderstood your skill level, which doesn't make him wrong, and maybe he failed to understand what you tried to ask but I actually think what you have is a sensible design.

    John.

  17. #17
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Sorry guys. He did not misunderstand me AT ALL. He knows what I wanted. He did not dispute this fact. He just said he found out he couldn't do it the way I asked so changed the plans.

    DID he inform me. NO.

    Do I look like someone who would understand the diagrams of a drawing. I don't think so. How am I supposed to know this detail, when I have never dealt with drawn plans before.

    I will just add: The builder said he thought it was strange the way it was designed. He said the space was way too small to hang clothes. He said that if we changed the height of a shelf he could have take the wall out. He thought it was weird dividing a single space like that. He said he thought the draws were even way too deep. But he just followed the plans.

    So now I am assuming this is the first job this guy has designed.

  18. #18
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman Mick View Post
    Makka,
    from what I can see, there's two points where a misunderstanding has probably arisen.
    1) You not being conversant with symbols etc used in plans. The plan clearly shows that there are two seperate units, the smaller unit having one door and the larger two.
    2) The cabinetmaker may have thought that when you asked if there was to be a wall between the two units you were asking whether there would be a stud frame with gyprock either side, or perhaps a brick wall or whatever your house construction is. Strictly speaking there is no "wall" between the two units, just the components that make up the units. Semantics? perhaps.

    Let's just suppose for a moment though that he had built it as one unit instead of two, which would have made it an absolute bastard to transport and install and probably more expensive. He would have had to fit a mullion instead to hang the door from. This would still not give you clear access from one section to the other so I really can't see what you would have gained besides an extra 32mm of cupboard width.

    I would have built it eactly the same way. Possibly I would have gone to more trouble to ensure that I understood what you were saying and that you understood the drawing, but if you'd asked me to make it with a mullion instead of two seperate sections I would have explained that I would need to asemble it on site and that it would cost you more.

    Mick

    Sorry that actual drawing was the first one, which he changed. The door goes all the way down as the others do.

  19. #19
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martrix View Post
    see pic..

    It looks like the partition is on the drawing which you signed off on?

    Is the cabinet one piece, or two cabinets (a thin one and a wide one) scredwed together?

    Uploading some pics.

    This is the spot where he told me there would be no wall divider. Just the frame to hold the doors.

  20. #20
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default






  21. #21
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martrix View Post
    There are most definitely ways of doing it the way makka wanted, but all of them would definitely cost more than what he paid for what he got.

    Why was it so critical to have the space open?

    Because that is the way I asked specifically. I put my hand through the old frame to show what I wanted to make sure. I asked him if I could put my hand through and there there there wouldn't be a wall stopping me?

    Because I know that a wall divided on a coat hanging space of a one cupboards space takes away the usefulness of it. When the clothes can all flow together, it is more efficient, especially space wise. I would have redesigned the whole cupboard if I had to put a wall there.


    And yes the builder who put the cupboard in said that it could have been done. It wouldn't have cost more, it was just a matter or changing to the height of the shelf above and the height of the hanging space.

    The designer said everyone gets their half hanging spaces made to this height. The builder questioned it, thinking it was unusual. It is way to short.

  22. #22
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

    To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

    Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

  23. #23
    Information squirrel floobyduster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Age
    74
    Posts
    105

    Default

    Not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but I'm interested to see that the drawing shows only 3 doors, but the photos show that 6 have been installed!
    "A blind man would love to see it - it fits where it touches!"

  24. #24
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

    To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

    Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

    If it couldn't be done, I would love to have been informed before the cupboard was built.

  25. #25
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by makka619 View Post
    Uploading some pics.

    This is the spot where he told me there would be no wall divider. Just the frame to hold the doors.
    The plan clearly shows there is a divider.

    Al

  26. #26
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by floobyduster View Post
    Not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but I'm interested to see that the drawing shows only 3 doors, but the photos show that 6 have been installed!

    Because I asked for 6. He drew it up as 3. I don't know why. So he drew over a print out in red pen to show it with 6.

    Same with the longer door, he changed that. We never asked for the drawers to be shown. He told us he couldn't cover with the door without coming in a few mm. Asked what way we wanted it and we chose the door to cover the drawers.

  27. #27
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ozwinner View Post
    The plan clearly shows there is a divider.

    Al

    Okay that's good to know NOW.



    But why wouldn't he tell me?



    I am a young female. I don't deal with woodwork daily or ever. Notifying me of something like this would be nice.

  28. #28
    A Member of the Holy Trinity silentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Well, your original question was "what do I do".

    Your options are:

    1. Live with it
    2. Refuse to pay the balance and get him to come up with a solution that you both agree to
    3. Rip it out and get someone else to do it

    Apart from venting steam over it, I can't really see what other option you have. If it was me and I was that upset about it, I would fix it myself. Been there and done that, you know "if you want it done properly you have to do it yourself".

  29. #29
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    I should have known that a line there meant that he was installing a wall. I should probably study building before hiring someone.

    At least I know now that if I am told it can be done one way, and they decide it is easier to change it, they will not bother telling me to see how I feel about it or work out a solution.

  30. #30
    ......say what? martrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    44
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by makka619 View Post
    Because I asked for 6. He drew it up as 3. I don't know why. So he drew over a print out in red pen to show it with 6.

    .
    I think maybe someones wires got crossed up right there.

    Theres not much you could do to successfully modify it (without it ending up patchy) now with the way it has been made.

    Like SilentC, I don't see a huge advantage in not having that small partition there, but then again, I'm not female and most of my clothes live on the floor.

    It looks like a pretty neat job anyway.
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  31. #31
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by makka619 View Post
    Okay that's good to know NOW.



    But why wouldn't he tell me?



    I am a young female. I don't deal with woodwork daily or ever. Notifying me of something like this would be nice.

    Not wishing to pick a fight.
    But, that sounds like a cop out.

    With the plans, if you didnt understand them, you should have got someone who does to explain them to you.

    Al

  32. #32
    Jake Darvall
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    N.S.W
    Age
    48
    Posts
    300

    Default

    Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Broken Hill
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by apricotripper View Post
    Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?
    $1160 it says on the quote in an earlier thread
    Jedo

  34. #34
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ozwinner View Post
    Not wishing to pick a fight.
    But, that sounds like a cop out.

    With the plans, if you didnt understand them, you should have got someone who does to explain them to you.

    Al
    Quote Originally Posted by makka619 View Post
    I should have known that a line there meant that he was installing a wall. I should probably study building before hiring someone.

    At least I know now that if I am told it can be done one way, and they decide it is easier to change it, they will not bother telling me to see how I feel about it or work out a solution.

  35. #35
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by apricotripper View Post
    Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?
    $1215

  36. #36
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    He was not going to give me those plans. I asked for a written quote and description.

    He would not have told me of the change.

  37. #37
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

    To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

    Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

    Well you know how I feel about it, it's what I wanted, and what I asked for. He said yes.

    The builder said yes I could have done it the way I wanted if we changed a couple of dimensions.

    So there you go, if only i knew.

    Damn me and my chatter in tech studies.

  38. #38
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Well, your original question was "what do I do".

    Your options are:

    1. Live with it
    2. Refuse to pay the balance and get him to come up with a solution that you both agree to
    3. Rip it out and get someone else to do it

    Apart from venting steam over it, I can't really see what other option you have. If it was me and I was that upset about it, I would fix it myself. Been there and done that, you know "if you want it done properly you have to do it yourself".
    Thanks silentC.

  39. #39
    Member Ian Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shailer Park, Queensland, Aus
    Age
    70
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Macca,
    It's a lesson that's hard in the learning but the reality is, unfortunately, if you want something done the way you want it then you have to do it yourself. That way, when it turns to s**t, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

    You'll see dire warnings on this forum about messing with stuff that needs a licensed tradesman - especially electricity. <O
    In those situations you really have little choice, but the problem is that if it was just hooking up the wires or the pipes or taps, where they have the expertise, correct tools, and relevant certifications, then you have to accept that what they do is as good as it gets.
    BUT what happens when these "specialists" have to turn their hands to another skill, to complete the job?
    <O
    That's when the plumber resorts to hammer to bash a hole in the bottom of your cupboard to get to the pipe he's just cracked while trying fit a compression fitting.<O</O
    That's when the “sparky” uses any old bit of bent up metal he can find rattling around in his truck to complete a difficult ceiling fan installation, and so on.
    <O</O
    It's been my experience that most of these specialists make up their mind what they are going to do within a very short time after seeing the job. You can stand there for as long as you like explaining exactly what you want, and why you want it, but it makes not the slightest bit of bloody difference because they are not listening.
    <O
    That's why I have a driveway that slopes the wrong way<O
    That's why I have house extension slab that is 10 mm lower than the original and which, by the way had to boxed up three times because the bloke didn't know what a right angle was.
    That's why the cupboard doors open the wrong way and the drawers are on the wrong side of my computer desk.<O
    That's why our air conditioner didn't work correctly for nearly two years because of over gassing.

    Oh, and you got an additional problem - you're a woman!! So what would you know? (SWMBO just threw that in)
    <O
    I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<O
    <O
    Ian<O

  40. #40
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    <o></o>
    I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<o></o><o></o>
    Ian<o></o>
    Hey...... you havent insulted Bricklayers.....I feel left out..
    And I didnt need my wife to tell me that either..

    Al

  41. #41
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kuranda, paradise, North Qld
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    .................I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<O....................

    Cap doesn't fit me
    It is possible to get exactly what you want. You just need:
    1)The ability to comunicate exactly what it is you want. In building this is best accomplished with detailed plans and a written scope of works.
    2)A good tradesman.

    Now a lot of you are going to say that number 2 is very hard to find, and I'll agree with you there, but very few people have got the clear, precise and concise communication happening either.

    Makka,
    I'm sorry you had to find out some things the hard way. Hopefully using this forum will help you avoid a lot of pitfalls. Unfortunately you've also found that a lot of trademen are dismissive of women. That's totally inexcusable (and very poor business). What the builder is saying about it being possible is correct, but if it was my job it would cost you more to do it in one piece ratehr than two. Less materials but a whole lot more drama and onsite work. I'm a carpenter by trade but have been building cabinets, on and off, for about fifteen years.

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  42. #42
    PLU.MBR.BL.DR. bricks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Adelaide - West
    Age
    41
    Posts
    643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    Macca,
    <O
    I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<O
    <O
    Ian<O
    Shocking tradesman make me look good and ensure that i get lots of work, the times Ive gone to a quote and had the owner say " that's highway robbery" or something to that effect, then had to go back three weeks later and fix a poor job and charge more.

    After that happens I have a customer for life. I love it when tradies do poor work, rip off clients, don't do whats asked. Because of them I can work as much as I want, for as much $ as I want. I have customers who will wait 2-4 months for a bathroom reno because they won't even ask another plumber.
    If you dont play it, it's not an instrument!

  43. #43
    Lumberlubber Bleedin Thumb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    . but it makes not the slightest bit of bloody difference because they are not listening.
    <O
    That's why I have a driveway that slopes the wrong way<O
    That's why I have house extension slab that is 10 mm lower than the original and which, by the way had to boxed up three times because the bloke didn't know what a right angle was.
    That's why the cupboard doors open the wrong way and the drawers are on the wrong side of my computer desk.<O
    That's why our air conditioner didn't work correctly for nearly two years because of over gassing.

    <O

    I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<O
    <O
    Ian<O



    Don't know............. but maybe they pick up on the attitude.

    Maybe I've just offended all the grumpy old men on the forum..if the cardigan fits...
    WARNING
    This persons post may sometimes contain
    Course language
    Adult themes
    Drug use
    Violence
    Nudity

  44. #44
    Member Ian Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shailer Park, Queensland, Aus
    Age
    70
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Listen mate,
    When you're on my property, spending my money, you'll bloody well do what I want, and if you can't you can take the time to tell me why. What's so hard about that ??

    I didn't start out grumpy... so called tradesmen made me that way

    Ian

  45. #45
    PLU.MBR.BL.DR. bricks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Adelaide - West
    Age
    41
    Posts
    643

    Default

    Hmmmmm. Do lots of work for little old ladies and hot divorcees....

    or drill sargent up here.....

    Serious bloke, you look after tradies- they look after you,

    Any tradies who think it's good to pull one over the ladies well. IMO if your in with the lady of the house your set for life. As most of us know Its not a joke that women make alot of decisions in the house with most of us boys flogging our souls all day and night to keep up with the bills, that includes repairs. If a lady likes your work you can be assured of one thing, she will tell everyone she knows about it, and vice versa
    If you dont play it, it's not an instrument!

  46. #46
    Member Ian Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shailer Park, Queensland, Aus
    Age
    70
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Bricks,
    This is taking a bit of turn.
    Don't get me wrong, when a job requires a tradesman, then I have no option but to engage one.
    But, being an ordinary householder and needing mostly one-of jobs, and then infrequently, there is no opportunity to build a relationship with anyone. I just go to the yellow pages and look for a local and then it's cross my fingers and hope he/she is good enough.
    I don't try to tell them their job, and I keep out of their way, but at the end of the day I have certain requirements (like not having water run uphill) which I expect to be meet, and I try to convey this to whomever is doing the work.
    What really gives me the "tom-tits" is the sort of things I outlined in my original post. I suppose I could have stopped payment, but that 's a slippery slope and, as Macca has found out, it's usually too late.
    No, the onus is on the tradesman to understand the clients requirements and implement them, and if something has problems or implications then it's up to them to point these out to me - after all they are the experts. If I knew as much as they then I wouldn't have needed to call them in the first place.

    Ian

  47. #47
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kuranda, paradise, North Qld
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    ......................No, the onus is on the tradesman to understand the clients requirements and implement them................
    Ian,
    I'm not sure I agree with you there, you don't think the client has an equal responsibility to communicate their requirements to the client? Communication is a two way street.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    ................ and if something has problems or implications then it's up to them to point these out to me.........................
    Definitely agree with you there Ian.

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  48. #48
    Member Ian Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shailer Park, Queensland, Aus
    Age
    70
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Mick,
    Absolutely, the client must communicate their requirement, but often it's a case of not knowing enough to know you don't know - if you follow me.

    If the client was knowledgeable in the field, then it's more likely, but in Macca's case I don't think she was in a position to understand the implications of her requirements, and the cabinet maker should have been taken the time to explore alternatives, rather than just doing what he had obviously made up his mind to do.

    It may have cost more and taken more time to do it the way Macca wanted or it may have been impractical, but she wasn't given the option to decide

    It may be obvious to anyone with some experience that provision had to made for door hinges, or that the span of the unsupported shelf was too great, but through no fault of her own, Macca didn't know that, and it's arrogant to just ignore her requirements regardless of how impractical they may have been without at least acknowledging them and giving her the opportunity to understand why.

    Ian

  49. #49
    Golden Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    ......
    Posts
    663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Smith View Post
    Mick,
    Absolutely, the client must communicate their requirement, but often it's a case of not knowing enough to know you don't know - if you follow me.

    In that case get an architect or draftsman to draw up plans and species and get a quote on what has been drawn up. Then if it is not built in terms of the plans and species you have a case, but in this case, notwithstanding what a builder said could be done or discussed, the plan prepared by the cabinet maker clearly showns the wall.

    It may be a hard lesson but she has herself to blame for not verifying the plan submitted.


    Peter.

  50. #50
    Senior Member makka619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Yes I blame myself. Stupid, daft me. Don't trust builders they don't give a rats' ass about helping you

    The kitchen was completed beautifully; by my ex tech teacher nontheless.

    No hassles. He couldn’t do something as I asked. Told me later, we sat down and worked out a way to get around it. In the end we got what I wanted with a minor change.


    Everything was perfectly designed and constructed to meet all of my verbal wants and desires as he agreed could be done. No surprises. Nadda. I bow down to his professionalism, and have and will continue to recommend him with such high praises whenever I can.

    I spoke to some friends. I got in touch with a high contract builder. They all believe that any changes I should have been informed of.

    Why would I question something when I am not expecting it to be there? When I am reassured a few times that it will not be there.

    I would not even think to look at a picture that is done one dimensional and pretend to notice an extra line that supposedly represents a wall. I did not study architecture. I don’t even know the back of a hammer. But perhaps I am just blonde.

    Builders should honestly care about a clients' wants. Like I said, he knew what I wanted, he wasn't disputing that. His reasoning was that after he agreed he could/would do it how I asked, he changed it because he realised it couldn't be done.

    So where do I come into this change of plan? Where do my wants/desires/specifics in getting the job done come into this?

    The fact is, in his book, I didn't come into it. I wanted a cupboard, I would still get a cupboard. But the details I want, well they don't matter.


    It saves time from thinking about how we can possibly overcome this presumable dilemma. It saves time from talking to the builder; you know the guy who puts the thing together. It saves time from talking to me and seeing if I want to change the design because he can no longer do what I CLEARLY ask for. Yes, clearly. I did not stutter. I did not mumble.

    He wanted me to come in to pay 50&#37; deposit at reception. I asked him to draw up a quote and he said okay, come in at such and such a time then so I can get the quote. I was never to see that drawing, and if I hadn't I would not have had 6 doors as I asked but 3. So perhaps I should be grateful I caught that one change of plan out. Woot; not completely blonde, but apparently still blonde.

    Thinking... thinking... thinking... I guess standing there and telling some builders what you want is pointless. As much of a waste of your own time and theirs. In the end they will make changes to your specifics without hesitation or a second thought your way.





Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •