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Need some help regarding replacing villaboard sheets and waterproofing in shower.

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  1. #1
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    Default Need some help regarding replacing villaboard sheets and waterproofing in shower.

    Im getting my entire ensuite re-tiled and waterproofed by professionals however I'm removing all the tiles and getting it ready myself.

    I need to replace the two villa-board sheets in the shower as these tiles have been a nightmare to get off - splintering and ripping the board off with it.

    1. Whats the best way to remove the sheets that are currently on the wall, hoping to not have to use a grinder and create a tonne of dust.
    2. Is it best if i replace the sheets wider than needed in the photo as to get to the next stud and join it on the stud?
    3. The joins that will be horizontal up close to the ceiling will they be ok with no support or do i need to add some timber in behind the join?
    4. in the corner of the shower do i need to patch it like a drywall join or do i use silicone or will a waterproofer take care of that?

    Thanks very much for any help in advance

    Pic of shower.


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    The professionals would have told you that you don't remove the tiles from the sheeting. you remove the sheeting.
    Learning DIY is a wonderful thing....just learn from a professional before you blow too much money.

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    Yeah well thats a lesson learnt.

    The old villaboard between the tiles and bottom plate do i need to dig that out? or do i but up the new villa board to it flush.

    It looks like its grout then villa board then timber, worried if i get those old bits out the grout will come to and leave a huge gap between the board and tile.

    prick.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails prick.jpg  

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    Hi David.
    I would Start at the base and cut the sheeting off level or just above the shower topping/screed, a Grinder with a cutting disk will make short work of this but will make a bit of dust.

    Then move to the top and punch a hole in the old board away from any plumbing using a hammer, and simply pull the sheeting off with the hammer.

    (I assume the tiles have been removed?).

    If you have an old blanket on the floor it will reduce the chances of damage of debris falling and speed up the cleaning. Also so good practice to tape over the waste.

    With the wall studs exposed, you can plan the best way to fix the board to the wall. Looks like you may need an extra timber in the corner.

    Foot Note.
    It's common practice to install the shower sheeting by cutting the sheet in half and having the bevelled edge joints located in the middle of the wall about halfway up and horizontal.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    shower-base-1.jpg shower-base-2.jpg

    Ok so i've got the sheets all out and pretty much ready to re-sheet except im concerned about the old waterproofing. I've found some rotting wood from a water leak, a few people have told me the shower has been built incorrectly. Do i now need to knock out the entire hob and install a shower base?

    Once ive replaced the bottom plate if i sheet again down behind the concrete base will it just leak again or will a good waterproofing job be enough?

    Just unsure of my next steps. (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)
    It's because people don't take photo's with their ifone or eyepad in the correct orientation.
    Mac's are smart enough to know which way is horizontal, unfortunately PC's don't.
    Easiest fix is to get in the habbit of always shooting video or pictures with the idevice horizontal and the shutter button under your right thumb, otherwise you need to rotate (in paint or whatever and save the images before uploading them.

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    Find the builder and shoot him. The stud work is possibly the worst I have ever seen. It's very important that the wet area sheeting is build to prevent any movement. This includes a stud at the end of the shower sheeting, along with the bottom of walls and halfway across if the standard joint is to be installed. In your case, you can get away with studs around the perimeter of the new sheeting and at least 4 cross studs for nailing the sheets to the wall properly.

    The existing shower hob could be salvaged, but the tile on the inside and top should be removed and re-waterproofed to ensure it does not present more problems. Personally, I would replace it with a 50 mm angle. more reliable and easier to clean and they look more up to date and are cheaper as no tiling needed.

    I hope this helps.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    Find the builder and shoot him. The stud work is possibly the worst I have ever seen. It's very important that the wet area sheeting is build to prevent any movement. This includes a stud at the end of the shower sheeting, along with the bottom of walls and halfway across if the standard joint is to be installed. In your case, you can get away with studs around the perimeter of the new sheeting and at least 4 cross studs for nailing the sheets to the wall properly.

    The existing shower hob could be salvaged, but the tile on the inside and top should be removed and re-waterproofed to ensure it does not present more problems. Personally, I would replace it with a 50 mm angle. more reliable and easier to clean and they look more up to date and are cheaper as no tiling needed.

    I hope this helps.
    Hmmm this isn't what i had hoped for lol.

    This is my first time renovating so excuse the silly questions. When you say replace it do you mean jackhammer out just the two edges that make a 90 degree corner that are the highest points. Or do you also jackhammer out the raised floor section thats higher than the rest of the floor?

    If i removed it what do you then install? A shower base or what is the 50mm Angle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post


    Ok so i've got the sheets all out and pretty much ready to re-sheet except im concerned about the old waterproofing. I've found some rotting wood from a water leak, a few people have told me the shower has been built incorrectly. Do i now need to knock out the entire hob and install a shower base?

    Once ive replaced the bottom plate if i sheet again down behind the concrete base will it just leak again or will a good waterproofing job be enough?

    Just unsure of my next steps. (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)

    Your next step is to jack hammer the old shower base and hob, remove and replace the rotted bottom plate, fit some sister studs next to the ones that have rotted out at the bottom, make the walls solid again then you can start sheeting the walls, I only did this exact thing a few weeks ago, they were hardwood studs and bottom plate, and the bottom plate was destroyed from the leak.

    You are wasting your time and money if you don't do the above, your walls especially the critical points at the shower need to be solid, and haze zero movement, this is critical to the waterproofing being able to do its job correctly.

    I have ripped out enough bathrooms with leaking showers to find your exact scenario and every one was repaired as above.

    Legally you have to fit a puddle flange to the shower, what are your intentions to tile over the existing tile ?, how did you propose to waterproof the new sheets with the existing hob still there, waterproofing does not stick to tiles, I would also be knocking up all the floor tiles to start fresh, possibly the screed as well, if your going to do it do it right to save future problems.

    Are you getting the waterproofing done by a licensed waterproofer, or are you going to do it yourself.

    BTW you mentioned the old waterproofing, sorry to say there was no waterproofing in that bathroom.
    Mieux vaut prévenir que guérir

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    Intentions were to yes tile over the tiles (have removed one layer of tiles already from previous owner) was planning on just re-sheeting and then i have spoken to a couple of waterproofers who have said they can use a different type of membrane for the floors?. (They however have not seen the bathroom yet lol) ... i guess this is why im here lol. Im an electrician by trade - my first renovation. I hate doing things incorrectly so im questioning myself at every turn as i find more and more problems.

    I was going to do the waterproofing myself but think i might have someone do it ...

    When i start going ham on this HOB ... what do i need to get it back to? will it just be flat with the exisiting slab? Is that what im after.

    Do i then need a tiler/plumber (???) to install what a shower base? or what needs to happen then. Got my wife on my case since ive come to a stand still ... haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Hmmm this isn't what I had hoped for lol.

    This is my first time renovating so excuse the silly questions. When you say replace it do you mean jackhammer out just the two edges that make a 90-degree corner that is the highest points? Or do you also jackhammer out the raised floor section that is higher than the rest of the floor?

    If I removed it what do you then install? A shower base or what is the 50mm Angle?
    That shower base consists of a tiled Hob (The wall on the outside of the shower.) inside that is a layer of mixed sand and cement referred to as screed, used to create a fall to the waste outlet for better drainage. This area and the hob would have been waterproofed before tiling. The tiles are glued to this. This can be easily removed with a heavy hammer. Strip it back to the original floor.

    I would never advise anyone to install a shower base, too many problems with them and far too expensive for what they are.

    Your waterproofer will supply and install an angle and waterproof the new walls, tap and shower spigot holes.
    So all you really need to do is remove whats there, replace the rotted studs and add extra studs to the walls and fit the Villaboard sheeting, shiny side out.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Im an electrician by trade -
    Well that good news, at least you won't be short of money

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    That shower base consists of a tiled Hob (The wall on the outside of the shower.) inside that is a layer of mixed sand and cement referred to as screed, used to create a fall to the waste outlet for better drainage. This area and the hob would have been waterproofed before tiling. The tiles are glued to this. This can be easily removed with a heavy hammer. Strip it back to the original floor.

    I would never advise anyone to install a shower base, too many problems with them and far too expensive for what they are.

    Your waterproofer will supply and install an angle and waterproof the new walls, tap and shower spigot holes.
    So all you really need to do is remove whats there, replace the rotted studs and add extra studs to the walls and fit the Villaboard sheeting, shiny side out.
    Hmm ok this is sounding more ... doable So when im back to the slab will i need someone to "screed" again? How do i get fall to the waste.

    The 50mm angle you talk about ... did a google search not sure if its literally just a 50mm bit of 90 degree angle steel (lol?) does the new shower screen (going for semi-frameless pivot) just go on the outside of that i guess?

    Im guessing i may as well rip up the rest of the original tiles then as well ... i didnt plan on doing that as they seem like an absolute nightmare to get off compared to the tiles that were on top of them. If i decide to get them up can i damage the slab ... and is that a massive problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Well that good news, at least you won't be short of money
    Hahaha you must be thinking of plumbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Hmm ok, this is sounding more ... doable So when I'm back to the slab will I need someone to "screed" again? How do I get fall to the waste?

    The 50mm angle you talk about ... did a google search not sure if its literally just a 50mm bit of 90-degree angle steel (lol?) does the new shower screen (going for semi-frameless pivot) just go on the outside of that I guess?
    It's 50mm by 50mm at right angles

    I'm guessing I may as well rip up the rest of the original tiles then as well ... I didn't plan on doing that as they seem like an absolute nightmare to get off compared to the tiles that were on top of them. If I decide to get them up can I damage the slab ... and is that a massive problem?

    You need to get base of the shower cleaned back to the original flat surface.
    You need to replace or repair the wall timbers so they support the new Villaboard sheeting properly, both horizontal and verticals.
    There should be no need for a plumber unless you want to relocate pipes for some reason.
    After the Waterproofer has installed the waterproofing you are ready to start tiling. I would advise you to employ a tiler to do this, as the list of things to do when tiling over a sloped surface and cutting in a waste will take a lot of explaining. If you are very keen on DIY, I would advise you let the tiler do the shower base and the first two rows of the bottom tiles. Then you should have very few problems, hopefully?.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    It's 50mm by 50mm at right angles


    You need to get base of the shower cleaned back to the original flat surface.
    You need to replace or repair the wall timbers so they support the new Villaboard sheeting properly, both horizontal and verticals.
    There should be no need for a plumber unless you want to relocate pipes for some reason.
    After the Waterproofer has installed the waterproofing you are ready to start tiling. I would advise you to employ a tiler to do this, as the list of things to do when tiling over a sloped surface and cutting in a waste will take a lot of explaining. If you are very keen on DIY, I would advise you let the tiler do the shower base and the first two rows of the bottom tiles. Then you should have very few problems, hopefully?.
    Yeah I’m definitely getting a tiler for the whole job, just trying to work out if it’s gojng to cost more or not. Have had one quote $2300 for 5 meters squared of floor and 17 metres squared of walls including waterproofing of the room. That was tiling over existing tiles and HOB though.

    So just so I understand the 50mm angle does the tiler tile over that? It gets attached to the slab? Waterproofer will do this?

    And if shower area is now flat like the rest of the floor how does the tiler get fall to the waste? Is the shower concrete meant to go back into the wall at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Yeah I’m definitely getting a tiler for the whole job, just trying to work out if it’s going to cost more or not. Have had one quote $2300 for 5 meters squared of the floor and 17 metres squared of walls including waterproofing of the room. That was tiling over existing tiles and HOB though.

    So just so I understand the 50mm angle does the tiler tile over that? Does it get attached to the slab? Will waterproofer do this?

    And if shower area is now flat like the rest of the floor how does the tiler get fall to the waste?
    The Waterproofer will waterproof the whole room, not just the shower and will also provide you with a Form 16 and a Written Warranty.
    When the waterproofer has finished the tiler can start tiling.

    The shower angle will only be around 30mm above the floor tiles when finished and looks very neat. You can ask the tiler to add some screed to hide it completely if you like but most people like the look as is.

    As for a description of screed: Screed a mixture of clay-free sand and cement used to create the required fall so the tiles direct the water to the waste outlet.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    The Waterproofer will waterproof the whole room, not just the shower and will also provide you with a Form 16 and a Written Warranty.
    When the waterproofer has finished the tiler can start tiling.

    The shower angle will only be around 30mm above the floor tiles when finished and looks very neat. You can ask the tiler to add some screed to hide it completely if you like but most people like the look as is.

    As for a description of screed: Screed a mixture of clay-free sand and cement used to create the required fall so the tiles direct the water to the waste outlet.
    If I smash up and remove the hob and get it down to slab, do I need to remove all the other floor tiles in the bathroom? I’ve had a crack and they are a bloody nightmare.

    edit - suprised how easy the hob was ! hob.jpg

    I think ill be able to get the tiles up now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    If I smash up and remove the hob and get it down to the slab, do I need to remove all the other floor tiles in the bathroom? I’ve had a crack and they are a bloody nightmare.

    edit - surprised how easy the hob was!

    I think ill be able to get the tiles up now.
    Now that the hob and the shower tiles have been removed, you should start on fixing the wall studs in the shower area.

    Regarding the floor tiles. have a look at the entry doorway, the tiles in this room should be the same level as the hallway. If this is the case, tiling over the existing tiles will create a trip at the entry. So best to remove the tiles. discuss this with your tiler first.
    Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.
    http://www.wet-seal.com.au/waterproofing/locations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    Now that the hob and the shower tiles have been removed, you should start on fixing the wall studs in the shower area.

    Regarding the floor tiles. have a look at the entry doorway, the tiles in this room should be the same level as the hallway. If this is the case, tiling over the existing tiles will create a trip at the entry. So best to remove the tiles. discuss this with your tiler first.
    Perfect! Yeah i will get onto the walls next. Im going through your message further up about replacing the bottom plate etc.

    Once i cut out all the rot how do i "join" the bottom plate to the parts of the bottom plate that are ok or do i remove it all? Do i somehow repair the damaged studs or cut them back and put new ones in just up to the noggins? Kinda confused since all the plumbing runs through etc i dont really wanna have to stuff around with that if there is a way?

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    Have i just stuffed up?

    Been going hard on the tiles ripping them up ... was i meant to rip them right back to the slab? or just rip the tiles off. Started noticing the slab isn't level?

    i assume all that filler under the tiles is to level the room out? Was i meant to be ripping all that up as well???

    Attachment 120030

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    Rip everything back the the slab, doesn’t matter if the slab isn’t level the tiler will sort all the floor level out with screed once it’s been waterproofed

    Should look like this once it’s all stripped

    https://i.imgur.com/PEoWKhg.jpg

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    The middle waste puddle flange looks like its level with the old screed/tiles ... do i need to screed first then waterproof?

    flange.jpg

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    Once it’s all ripped out the waterproofer will cut the waste level with the slab and install a new puddle flange

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Perfect! Yeah i will get onto the walls next. Im going through your message further up about replacing the bottom plate etc.

    Once i cut out all the rot how do i "join" the bottom plate to the parts of the bottom plate that are ok or do i remove it all? Do i somehow repair the damaged studs or cut them back and put new ones in just up to the noggins? Kinda confused since all the plumbing runs through etc i dont really wanna have to stuff around with that if there is a way?
    First you need to check the wall is not load bearing, if it is you will need to prop the wall up while you work on it, it's a good idea to prop the wall anyway if your going to start cutting any significant number of studs off to remove the bottom plate.

    Multitool is your friend here with a heavy metal blade and a good wood cutting blade, cut and nails that are holding the studs to the bottom plate, then you can cut the bottom plate up into smaller sections, and you will be able to pull it out.

    Replace it with a new one in one piece, clean everything out from the base (ie vac all the debris out) and you should be able to get the new bottom plate back in fairly easily (make sure the plate is sized width wise to match the wall currently is) the new bottom plate should sit flush to the studs, and be fixed into the floor joists it sits on, you may also need to knock back some of the slab or existing screed if the bottom plate is trapped between the floor and the wall.

    You have two choices, if the studs are really rotted you can put a 2nd bottom plate in, this allows you to cut the rot off the bottom of the studs square so they sit hard onto the 2nd bottom plate, this is the easiest option if the bottom plate is trapped, as you cut the studs to suit two plates, this will allow you to get the existing damaged one out., or you can put another stud next to the damaged ones, you have plumbing that will be in the way which will make putting adjoining studs in more difficult.

    When I do these the bathroom is generally being reconfigured so the plumbing is removed and new studs can go all the way from top to bottom plates, then the new plumbing is put through the new studs as required

    Fix the new bottom plate to the floor joists with nails (nail gun) or 100mm 10G screws, then fit the 2nd plate to the first plate in the same way, then secure the studs to the new plate in the same way, if your going to use screws make sure these are galvanised, and you will need to predrill the studs or you will split them as they are old.

    Once all this is done and there are no protrusions and the wall is solid then you can resheet it.

    Also if it was my bathroom I would be ripping out at least the tiles or preferably the existing screed (generally easier), the tiler will rescreed a new floor for you with correct falls to the wastes ready for the waterproofers.

    When you fit the new Villaboard sheets DO NOT set the joins with basecoat or similar, leave it to the waterproofer, they should be using something like 11FC.


    If your struggling with the wall, you must know a decent Chippy, get him to come and fix it for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    First you need to check the wall is not load bearing, if it is you will need to prop the wall up while you work on it, it's a good idea to prop the wall anyway if your going to start cutting any significant number of studs off to remove the bottom plate.

    Multitool is your friend here with a heavy metal blade and a good wood cutting blade, cut and nails that are holding the studs to the bottom plate, then you can cut the bottom plate up into smaller sections, and you will be able to pull it out.

    Replace it with a new one in one piece, clean everything out from the base (ie vac all the debris out) and you should be able to get the new bottom plate back in fairly easily (make sure the plate is sized width wise to match the wall currently is) the new bottom plate should sit flush to the studs, and be fixed into the floor joists it sits on, you may also need to knock back some of the slab or existing screed if the bottom plate is trapped between the floor and the wall.

    You have two choices, if the studs are really rotted you can put a 2nd bottom plate in, this allows you to cut the rot off the bottom of the studs square so they sit hard onto the 2nd bottom plate, this is the easiest option if the bottom plate is trapped, as you cut the studs to suit two plates, this will allow you to get the existing damaged one out., or you can put another stud next to the damaged ones, you have plumbing that will be in the way which will make putting adjoining studs in more difficult.

    When I do these the bathroom is generally being reconfigured so the plumbing is removed and new studs can go all the way from top to bottom plates, then the new plumbing is put through the new studs as required

    Fix the new bottom plate to the floor joists with nails (nail gun) or 100mm 10G screws, then fit the 2nd plate to the first plate in the same way, then secure the studs to the new plate in the same way, if your going to use screws make sure these are galvanised, and you will need to predrill the studs or you will split them as they are old.

    Once all this is done and there are no protrusions and the wall is solid then you can resheet it.

    Also if it was my bathroom I would be ripping out at least the tiles or preferably the existing screed (generally easier), the tiler will rescreed a new floor for you with correct falls to the wastes ready for the waterproofers.

    When you fit the new Villaboard sheets DO NOT set the joins with basecoat or similar, leave it to the waterproofer, they should be using something like 11FC.


    If your struggling with the wall, you must know a decent Chippy, get him to come and fix it for you.
    Thanks for this! I will get to work on that bottom plate this arvo. I have removed all the old screed since yesterday actually and im slightly confused on the process after ive fixed the bottom plate. Im really noticing how little i know about other trades lol.

    1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to slab (im almost done)
    2. Fix bottom plate rotting.
    3. re-sheet walls.
    4. This is where i get confused, i am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally.
    - Both tilers ive spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if i have to?
    - who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will i need to?
    - does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed?
    - does the shower screen (im getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit ontop of the angle or on one side?
    - do i need to get the shower area down lower then the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk in robe already i guess that why i orginally had a hob?

    Sorry for all the questions lol.

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    1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to the slab (I'm almost done)
    2. Fix bottom plate rotting.
    3. re-sheet walls.
    4. This is where I get confused, I am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally.
    - Both tilers I've spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if I have to?
    Yes
    - who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will I need to?
    The Waterproofer
    - does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed?
    On the slab
    - does the shower screen (I'm getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit on top of the angle or on one side?
    On the inside
    - do I need to get the shower area down lower than the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk-in robe already I guess that why I originally had a hob?
    No
    Sorry for all the questions lol.
    If you do not ask questions you may never know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsaltoz View Post
    1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to the slab (I'm almost done)
    2. Fix bottom plate rotting.
    3. re-sheet walls.
    4. This is where I get confused, I am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally.
    - Both tilers I've spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if I have to?
    Yes
    - who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will I need to?
    The Waterproofer
    - does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed?
    On the slab
    - does the shower screen (I'm getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit on top of the angle or on one side?
    On the inside
    - do I need to get the shower area down lower than the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk-in robe already I guess that why I originally had a hob?
    No
    Sorry for all the questions lol.
    If you do not ask questions you may never know.
    That is true that is true

    Ok so the Angle is visible? and should stick up at least 5mm from what i've read? The shower screen is going to be black so ill make sure i get a black angle i guess.

    I noticed your signature, do you work at wetseal? Don't suppose you live on the gold coast and ahhhh looking for some work haha?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    That is true that is true

    Ok, so the Angle is visible? and should stick up at least 5mm from what I've read? The shower screen is going to be black so ill make sure I get a black angle I guess.

    The tiler will set the required depth of the top gap after calculating the depth of screed plus thickness of tile glue and thickness of tiles selected

    I noticed your signature, do you work at wet-seal? Don't suppose you live on the gold coast and ahhhh looking for some work haha?
    You can free call 1800 025 081 from anywhere in Australia or New Zealand Toll-free. They will then connect you to your nearest waterproofer.

    Avagoodweekend.




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    Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?

    Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously i will sweep and vaccum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear

    Also the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if its going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right. If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?

    Appreciate the help

    slab.jpg

    slab-view.jpg



  31. #31
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    What you have done is perfect for the waterproofing, it does not have to be surgical clean.

    If your slab is level to the flooring outside you will have to have a step up into the bathroom, which would have already been the way it was.
    The puddle flanges sit just below the surface of the concrete (grinded in so they sit just under the surface) and the waterproofing is run down into these creating a continuous membrane over the entire floor, up the walls and angles.

    The screed will be built up and appropriate falls set at the shower and floor waste, I like to use the grates which have a tile insert so you don't see the grates they look much cleaner (your tiler can supply the ones he likes to work with).

    These have two parts and an outlet which will sit into the puddle flange, some come with their own puddle flange some don't, see below for an example of how they work.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    What you have done is perfect for the waterproofing, it does not have to be surgical clean.

    If your slab is level to the flooring outside you will have to have a step up into the bathroom, which would have already been the way it was.
    The puddle flanges sit just below the surface of the concrete (grinded in so they sit just under the surface) and the waterproofing is run down into these creating a continuous membrane over the entire floor, up the walls and angles.

    The screed will be built up and appropriate falls set at the shower and floor waste, I like to use the grates which have a tile insert so you don't see the grates they look much cleaner (your tiler can supply the ones he likes to work with).

    These have two parts and an outlet which will sit into the puddle flange, some come with their own puddle flange some don't, see below for an example of how they work.
    Thanks for the info Metrix.

    Saves me a lot of unnecessary work

    Fixing the rot and sheeting this weekend with a chippy mate of mine, then just gotta waterproof and tile. Coming along nicely.

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    Hey guys just had two tilers around to quote up the work.

    Both of them want to use the waterstop angles in the first picture (pre-made ones) streamline i think they are called? , however they only come in stainless steel or white. My wife and i are trying to get the look of the shower in the second picture as we are getting a black semi-frameless shower. Is that just black aluminium angle? First tiler was saying there will be a gap on the corner if i use the normal angle that will be siliconed up? Doesnt look as good etc etc, most likely just harder for him i'm guessing.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screen-shot-2018-04-06-6.03.07-pm.png   screen-shot-2018-04-06-6.04.04-pm.png  

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    The waterstop angles go in the screed and stick above the tiles by about 5mm, then the semi frameless sits over this so the angle is completely hidden.

    Whatever that thing is in the first picture looks horrible and would be a mould catcher.

    Also with Black, be careful a lot of the black stuff is of poor quality, and will discolour over time, black tapware looks great but it doesn't stand to being treated harshly, something like chrome is bulletproof and will look as good in 10 years as the day you put it in.

    Search for articles regarding black tapware, you need to look after it differently to chrome or Stainless, such as the one below.

    https://www.theplumbette.com.au/plum...black-tapware/
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    Got the sheeting done today. The nogs didn't line up with the sheets in one part so i had to remove it and re-do it, i've run out of villaboard but just wondering if this kind of join in the shower area will be ok with the waterproofing? Or should i really rip it off and do it again. If it can just be pumped full of sika etc im hoping to leave it.

    The shower niche kinda @@@@ed up my measurements on two sides abit. Will that be ok as well?

    sheet.jpg

    crack.jpgniche.jpg

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    Hey guys got a few questions i'm trying to wrap my head around still.

    Both tilers have said they need to have the angle show at least 5mm through the tiles. Im assuming this view is as if your standing within the shower? If your outside the shower you will see more like 35mm?


    I've read on here that the shower gets installed on the inside of the angle, does this mean i need to get the waterproofer to set the angle larger than 900x900 for the actual shower to be 900x900. If the tiler has created fall inside that angle meaning its not perfectly flat and level thats ok for the screen?

    Lastly im tiling up to the cornice however the tilers have said it might look a little ugly and if the cornice isn't perfectly level with the floor there might be issues once he starts getting up there with different spacing between the final tile and cornice. Is it easier to :

    A - rip off cornice, tile up to ceiling and re-install new cornice.
    B - rip off cornice, rip down ceiling and re-sheet ceiling right into the corners / patch join and paint etc getting a nice square set look.

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    In regards to the cornice/ceiling it depends if you want to take the easy way out or if you want it to look better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    In regards to the cornice/ceiling it depends if you want to take the easy way out or if you want it to look better.
    Yeah exactly. If i removed the cornice and ceiling then re-sheeted tight into all walls. Does it need to be square set? Or will the final tile + sealant be enough?

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    The final tile plus grout will be enough... just make sure the ceiling is level

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidoff View Post
    Hey guys got a few questions i'm trying to wrap my head around still.

    Both tilers have said they need to have the angle show at least 5mm through the tiles. Im assuming this view is as if your standing within the shower? If your outside the shower you will see more like 35mm?


    I've read on here that the shower gets installed on the inside of the angle, does this mean i need to get the waterproofer to set the angle larger than 900x900 for the actual shower to be 900x900. If the tiler has created fall inside that angle meaning its not perfectly flat and level thats ok for the screen?

    Lastly im tiling up to the cornice however the tilers have said it might look a little ugly and if the cornice isn't perfectly level with the floor there might be issues once he starts getting up there with different spacing between the final tile and cornice. Is it easier to :

    A - rip off cornice, tile up to ceiling and re-install new cornice.
    B - rip off cornice, rip down ceiling and re-sheet ceiling right into the corners / patch join and paint etc getting a nice square set look.

    The semi frameless shower should have a groove on the underside of the aluminium bottom rails, this sits OVER the angle concealing it underneath the shower frame, I say should have a groove, check with the supplier if it does have it, as I have seen some that are flat.

    I would take the cornice off, tile up, and refit cornice, don;t take the tiles all the way to the ceiling, as you need to pack behind the new cornice above the tile line to give the cornice adhesive something to stick to, it does not stick to glazed tiles successfully.
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    The semi frameless shower should have a groove on the underside of the aluminium bottom rails, this sits OVER the angle concealing it underneath the shower frame, I say should have a groove, check with the supplier if it does have it, as I have seen some that are flat.

    I would take the cornice off, tile up, and refit cornice, don;t take the tiles all the way to the ceiling, as you need to pack behind the new cornice above the tile line to give the cornice adhesive something to stick to, it does not stick to glazed tiles successfully.
    Hey Metrix thanks for info i am definitely going to go down the new cornice route.

    With the shower screen, since im having a little step up into the shower area. (bathroom floor same level as walk in robe) shower will need to be a step up.

    Can i even have the screen sit over the angle? Because wont the angle have two different heights on each side ... the shower side will have like 5mm sticking out and the bathroom floor will be like 35mm?

    Hopefully that makes sense.

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    Doesn't make sense, showers usually are set down below the main floor level, this aids with drainage, cant say I have seen a step up shower before unless there was a hob around the shower base.
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    I’m with metrix, I have never seen a step up into the shower, the shower will be set down from the main floor, you will end up with a step up into your bathroom

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    Hmm maybe im confused. I swear both tilers were saying that the bathroom floor will be level with the carpet into the robe. (there is photos above that kinda give a good view from carpet level)

    And then installing 50mm angle so they can build up inside the shower and create fall .. i just assumed that would mean it would be a small step up?

    Am i better off just doing a HOB?

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    No, hobs are ugly.

    Trust the tilers to get it right, they do it everyday

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    It means they will run the floor up from the carpet to get the fall in the shower.

    Be careful with doing this, if what they are saying means the entrance to the bathroom will be lower than the shower, this is not a good design.
    If something breaks and a leak develops it means there is a lower point at the entrance to the bathroom, this is backwards to correct bathroom design.

    You want the entrance to be higher than anything else in the room to at least halfway where the floor waste is, this way if water does make it's way towards the door ie broken flexi, it will be forced to flow back towards the floor waste not out the door where it will destroy everything in the carpeted room.

    If you asked for the floor to have no step up into the bathroom you may be compromising water leakage possibility for looks.

    Remember water takes the point of least resistance, ie: it flows downhill.

    How much lower is the current floor compared to the carpet ?
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    [QUOTE=Davidoff;1073632]Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?

    Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously, i will sweep and vacuum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear
    If installing a shower angle, Just mark out the area the angle will be located and grind it reasonably flat. It will be secured to the floor with sealant.

    Also, the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if it's going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right.
    After the waterproofer has installed the shower angle and finished waterproofing.The tiler will Screed (a mix of clay-free sand and cement) over an area deeper than 50mm, and probably use one of the levelling compound type products in areas less than 50mm.

    If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?
    The Waterproofer should install the puddle flanges, they will be just below the level of the existing floor and prepped for waterproofing.

    Appreciate the help
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    It means they will run the floor up from the carpet to get the fall in the shower.

    Be careful with doing this, if what they are saying means the entrance to the bathroom will be lower than the shower, this is not a good design.
    If something breaks and a leak develops it means there is a lower point at the entrance to the bathroom, this is backwards to correct bathroom design.

    You want the entrance to be higher than anything else in the room to at least halfway where the floor waste is, this way if water does make it's way towards the door ie broken flexi, it will be forced to flow back towards the floor waste not out the door where it will destroy everything in the carpeted room.

    If you asked for the floor to have no step up into the bathroom you may be compromising water leakage possibility for looks.

    Remember water takes the point of least resistance, ie: it flows downhill.

    How much lower is the current floor compared to the carpet ?
    I've added some pics to try and help explain.

    Carpet is only like carpet thickness higher.

    From the pics what would you suggest happen?

    carpet-into-broom.jpg

    carpet-into-bathroom.jpg

    bathroom-33.jpg

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    I would suggest you have a step up into the bathroom, this will allow the shower which is at the opposite side of the room to be at the same height as the entrance and the falls be run from the perimeter of the room to the floor waste in the middle of the room.

    You seem to have a decent fall to the floor waste, so it's a straightforward screed that needs to be done to allow the shower to sit flat on the tiles and not have any angle exposed (I have never seen exposed angle around a shower like you described)

    Your house was NOT designed to have the tiles flush to the carpet, this is because it an older house and the floor level of the bathroom slab is set too high, ehen we do the older bathrooms and the client wants the tiles to match the flooring height outside the room, we knock the bathroom floor down to have a FFL of 50mm lower that the outside floor level, this allows for a screed thickness of 30-40mm plus adhesive and tile which will bring it to be level with the outside FFL.

    If it's a slab this can be a big problem if they want this done, if it's timber floor it can be knocked down much easier, but usually takes a complete rebuild of the subfloor to do it.

    If you don't have this amount of height you WILL need a step up into the bathroom to get the height you need to do the job properly.

    Your confusion of what to do comes down to in-experience, my advice is don't reinvent the wheel, things are done in a certain way to ensure trouble free future years.

    Basically get the tiler to do it for you the way it should be done, your tiler should know how to do it properly, for your situation it requires a step up into the bathroom to achieve the right fall on the screed and tiles.

    I would also suggest you remove that mixer off the connection points, dangling it down like it is will damage the flexi hoses if they haven't already been damaged, they are not designed to have mixers dangling off them like that.

    I suggest you inspect those flexi's very stringently if that mixer is being used in the new room, because if you have caused damage to the internal plastic hose or the stainless braided hoe, it has the potential to fail earlier than expected, then you will need to be sure the floor levels have been set right or you will be in for a lot of heartache.

    Below is the last one I did that the client wanted the bathroom level to the floorboards, you can see what had to be done to achieve this and the result below that.



    3.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    I would suggest you have a step up into the bathroom, this will allow the shower which is at the opposite side of the room to be at the same height as the entrance and the falls be run from the perimeter of the room to the floor waste in the middle of the room.

    You seem to have a decent fall to the floor waste, so it's a straightforward screed that needs to be done to allow the shower to sit flat on the tiles and not have any angle exposed (I have never seen exposed angle around a shower like you described)

    Your house was NOT designed to have the tiles flush to the carpet, this is because it an older house and the floor level of the bathroom slab is set too high, ehen we do the older bathrooms and the client wants the tiles to match the flooring height outside the room, we knock the bathroom floor down to have a FFL of 50mm lower that the outside floor level, this allows for a screed thickness of 30-40mm plus adhesive and tile which will bring it to be level with the outside FFL.

    If it's a slab this can be a big problem if they want this done, if it's timber floor it can be knocked down much easier, but usually takes a complete rebuild of the subfloor to do it.

    If you don't have this amount of height you WILL need a step up into the bathroom to get the height you need to do the job properly.

    Your confusion of what to do comes down to in-experience, my advice is don't reinvent the wheel, things are done in a certain way to ensure trouble free future years.

    Basically get the tiler to do it for you the way it should be done, your tiler should know how to do it properly, for your situation it requires a step up into the bathroom to achieve the right fall on the screed and tiles.

    I would also suggest you remove that mixer off the connection points, dangling it down like it is will damage the flexi hoses if they haven't already been damaged, they are not designed to have mixers dangling off them like that.

    I suggest you inspect those flexi's very stringently if that mixer is being used in the new room, because if you have caused damage to the internal plastic hose or the stainless braided hoe, it has the potential to fail earlier than expected, then you will need to be sure the floor levels have been set right or you will be in for a lot of heartache.

    Below is the last one I did that the client wanted the bathroom level to the floorboards, you can see what had to be done to achieve this and the result below that.
    Ok great i think i understand now. I will have to confirm whats happening again, so if i have a step up into the bathroom. The shower tiles inside the angle will all be at the same height as the rest of the bathroom and the shower angle should be level with the top of all tiles?

    I think i have been imagining the shower angle basically as a HOB which is getting me really confused.

    At the end of the day i will end up renting this house out so i'm not to worried about looks i guess i'd rather it be done right. I appreciate all your help mate, sorry for so many similar and stupid questions im just struggling to picture it in my head lol

    The next bathroom should be a lot easier for me haha.

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