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Sika 11FC+

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  1. #1
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    Default Sika 11FC+

    Hey guys,

    Just a quick one, is 11FC+ interchangeable with 11FC? The original 11FC is tricky to find!

    Thanks
    Ben

  2. #2
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    11FC+ is not solvent based, 11FC is. Bunnings only sell 11FC+ as far as I know, had to go to a local hardware to get traditional 11FC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    11FC+ is water abased, 11FC isn't. Bunnings only sell 11FC+ as far as I know, had to go to a local hardware to get traditional 11FC.
    Does being water based make the + version unsuitable for sealing Scyon and Villaboard in wet areas?

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    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potex View Post
    Does being water based make the + version unsuitable for sealing Scyon and Villaboard in wet areas?
    Sorry, you beat my correction...it is not solvent based was what I meant. AFAIK they say there is no performance difference but for my liking, how would you know with any new product release!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Sorry, you beat my correction...it is not solvent based was what I meant. AFAIK they say there is no performance difference but for my liking, how would you know with any new product release!
    11FC+ isn't exactly new, it's been around for over 10 years I reckon. Potex, 11FC+ will easily do what you want.
    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


  6. #6
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Never seen it before until more recently, only ever saw 11FC, why are two types available?


    Actually asked about it here but had no response:
    Sika 11FC/11FC+ (renovateforum.com)

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    Thanks for the help guys

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Sorry, you beat my correction...it is not solvent based was what I meant. AFAIK they say there is no performance difference but for my liking, how would you know with any new product release!
    The plus version performs no different to the non plus version.
    Been using the plus version for a while,

    The difference is plus contains no solvents so is more "Eco" than regular version.
    Clean up is the same
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  9. #9
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Still wonder why 2 types being available, you'd think they would just settle for one if no performance difference

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    Need to clear the remaining prime material to make the old formula. You wouldn't want to throw it away ...
    And there is always someone looking for the 'old' formula.

    Like me, buying F&W decking oil "traditional". This year must be a different tradition, because I am in the third week and the oil is still not cured despite doing it the same way as always. Don't think I'll buy F&W again. Time for a different 'tradition' ... may be should have done it in summer
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Need to clear the remaining prime material to make the old formula. You wouldn't want to throw it away ...
    And there is always someone looking for the 'old' formula.

    Like me, buying F&W decking oil "traditional". This year must be a different tradition, because I am in the third week and the oil is still not cured despite doing it the same way as always. Don't think I'll buy F&W again. Time for a different 'tradition' ... may be should have done it in summer
    It's just too cold at night for the oil to cure, the last few days have been beautiful, almost summer weather, but the nights have been a little cooler.
    You will need to give it a week or more to cure, not the time of year to traditional oil a deck.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Still wonder why 2 types being available, you'd think they would just settle for one if no performance difference
    As Marc said, probably have a lot of the raw materials for 11FC so need to use them all up, and the +version may be cheaper to make but sell for the same price ?
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  13. #13
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Yeah, dunno, Whitey reckons it's been around a long time so time enough to use up raw materials. Might have to give sika a call and ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Yeah, dunno, Whitey reckons it's been around a long time so time enough to use up raw materials. Might have to give sika a call and ask.
    Go on, I dare you
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    Go on, I dare you
    Well I did just now and spoke with a rep. Get this, it's a Bunnings thing like when they change model numbers on say Makita drop saws so they don't have to price match. So Sika in an agreement with Bunnings have made a product differentiation to what is essentially the same product. The cure for 11FC is moisture and 11FC+ is something called I-cure whatever that is, he did not fully understand that definition.

    Whitey, he also confirmed with me that 11FC+ has only been available for the past 12 months approx.

    So there you go, Bunnings being sneaky again so they don't have to price match, you will only find 11FC+ and Pro+ at Bunnings.

    Fair Trading should step in and stop Bunnings using this loophole in law procuring products with slight differentiation to avoid competitive pricing.

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    You know they just bought Beaumont tiles.
    Not that irs a problem at least ownership stays in Australia
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Well I did just now and spoke with a rep. Get this, it's a Bunnings thing like when they change model numbers on say Makita drop saws so they don't have to price match. So Sika in an agreement with Bunnings have made a product differentiation to what is essentially the same product. The cure for 11FC is moisture and 11FC+ is something called I-cure whatever that is, he did not fully understand that definition.

    Whitey, he also confirmed with me that 11FC+ has only been available for the past 12 months approx.

    So there you go, Bunnings being sneaky again so they don't have to price match, you will only find 11FC+ and Pro+ at Bunnings.

    Fair Trading should step in and stop Bunnings using this loophole in law procuring products with slight differentiation to avoid competitive pricing.

    I think the rep has led you up the garden path, it is a different product as it's the new solvent free version with bubble free I-cure technology, released in 2020.
    It hasn't been relabelled or anything specifically for Bunnings as it's available throughout Europe and the Middle East.

    It appears Bunnings is the distributor for it, this could be so they don't have to price match, but I would say more to do with getting it at a better price as they have the most outlets to flog it to the punters, this might only be an exclusive product for 6 or 12 months, then other outlets might be able to get access to it.

    Sika is probably happy to solely sell it to them as they probably already have the highest turnover of Sika that any other outlets.

    This is normal practice for companies to have exclusivity to certain products, Bunnings does the same but in reverse, a lot of the products they sell , such as Kaboodle are only available from Bunnings, you cannot buy them elsewhere or directly, it's really no difference.

    The Pro+ product is also the same solvent free new formula with I-cure technology and probably the same deal, it all comes down to your distribution ability, if you have 20 outlets, or 350 outlets your going to be able to do deals with the manufacturers that the smaller companies can't do.

    Weird the Sika rep didn't know much about the product, it is pretty easy to explain the difference, I would have thought he could have explained the difference in a few seconds, since this is appearing in all their new products !!

    I-cure is a new formulation that does not emit CO2 while curing which causes bubbling in high humidity areas, where as traditional polyurethanes emit CO2 so bubbles can cause voids internally and ruin the outer surface finish.

    The + versions of the product are definitely the superior of the two products

    Here is a good video explaining the difference.

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  18. #18
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Still doesn't make sense why Sika would deliberately make two products of the same thing if one is better than the other. This is what I am trying to get my head around

    Then this: 11FC is moisture cure...11FC+ is I-cure... but 11FC Purform is moisture cure and they state is superior to 11FC+

    Sikaflex®-11 FC Purform® impresses with faster curing, increased durability and less exposure to monomer diisocyanate content compared to the Sikaflex®-11 FC+ of today.

    "Sikaflex®-11 FC Purform® Technical Data

    Sikaflex®-11 FC is a one-part, moisture-curing, polyurethane elastic adhesive and sealant."

    New Sikaflex®-11 FC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Still doesn't make sense why Sika would deliberately make two products of the same thing if one is better than the other. This is what I am trying to get my head around

    Then this: 11FC is moisture cure...11FC+ is I-cure... but 11FC Purform is moisture cure and they state is superior to 11FC+

    Sikaflex®-11 FC Purform® impresses with faster curing, increased durability and less exposure to monomer diisocyanate content compared to the Sikaflex®-11 FC+ of today.

    "Sikaflex®-11 FC Purform® Technical Data

    Sikaflex®-11 FC is a one-part, moisture-curing, polyurethane elastic adhesive and sealant."

    New Sikaflex®-11 FC
    11FC+ is an improved formula with less toxic ingredients, aimed at different markets specifically those with higher humidity.
    It seems there was obviously a problem with the regular 11FC in these types of situations, so they developed a newer product.

    As there is nothing wrong with the original formula for probably 90% of installs I guess there is no need to get rid of the existing product.
    Probably one day they will phase out the original formula.

    I suspect the new product was developed maybe due to European standards for chemical content etc, the new product has no smell, the original one does which may suggest more off-gassing of the original product compared to the new one.

    Who knows really, all I know is the new version installs and performs identical to the old one, it also seems to find it's way onto everything once opened same as the original version.
    It's a magical product, once opened it magically appears on your shoes, walls, hands hair, and everywhere else
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  20. #20
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    To me it is all marketing spin and don't know what to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Whitey, he also confirmed with me that 11FC+ has only been available for the past 12 months approx.
    Oh really, you better tell the people who make it then as I've used it many years ago and I don't own a DeLorean with a flux capacitor fitted - https://www.sika.com/en/media/insigh...nnovation.html

    Cut and paste from bottom of the page - "Sikaflex®-11FC+ with Sika i-Cure® technology was launched in 2010. Sika’s i-Cure® latent hardener technology makes the product robust in terms of bubble formation, even in extremely warm and humid climates, and improves its adhesion profile."

    Doesn't mention anything about Bunnings but maybe they have struck a deal with Sika to be the exclusive sole retailer now?
    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


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    Quote Originally Posted by METRIX View Post
    I think the rep has led you up the garden path, it is a different product as it's the new solvent free version with bubble free I-cure technology, released in 2020.
    It hasn't been relabelled or anything specifically for Bunnings as it's available throughout Europe and the Middle East.

    It appears Bunnings is the distributor for it, this could be so they don't have to price match, but I would say more to do with getting it at a better price as they have the most outlets to flog it to the punters, this might only be an exclusive product for 6 or 12 months, then other outlets might be able to get access to it.

    Sika is probably happy to solely sell it to them as they probably already have the highest turnover of Sika that any other outlets.

    This is normal practice for companies to have exclusivity to certain products, Bunnings does the same but in reverse, a lot of the products they sell , such as Kaboodle are only available from Bunnings, you cannot buy them elsewhere or directly, it's really no difference.

    The Pro+ product is also the same solvent free new formula with I-cure technology and probably the same deal, it all comes down to your distribution ability, if you have 20 outlets, or 350 outlets your going to be able to do deals with the manufacturers that the smaller companies can't do.

    Weird the Sika rep didn't know much about the product, it is pretty easy to explain the difference, I would have thought he could have explained the difference in a few seconds, since this is appearing in all their new products !!

    I-cure is a new formulation that does not emit CO2 while curing which causes bubbling in high humidity areas, where as traditional polyurethanes emit CO2 so bubbles can cause voids internally and ruin the outer surface finish.

    The + versions of the product are definitely the superior of the two products

    Here is a good video explaining the difference.

    If it was released in 2020 how could the Youtube clip you linked be created in January 2014 ??
    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey66 View Post
    Oh really, you better tell the people who make it then as I've used it many years ago and I don't own a DeLorean with a flux capacitor fitted - https://www.sika.com/en/media/insigh...nnovation.html
    Isn't that for Europe, not Australia!
    Clearly it has been available for a long time there. The rep made it clear to me only Bunnings have had 11FC+ only recently and no one else sells it. Could what you have bought been a grey import!? In the recent past I could only get 11FC from Bunnings then suddenly it changed to 11FC+. Seems to me Bunnings decided to bypass Sika's local supply and take up the 'grey import' route as a sole importer with agreement with Sika.
    As per my previous post 11FC+ is identified by Sika as inferior to their Purform 11FC which is back to being a moisture cure!

    "Sikaflex®-11 FC Purform®
    impresses with faster curing, increased durability and less exposure to monomer diisocyanate content compared to the Sikaflex®-11 FC+ of today."

    Doesn't mention anything about Bunnings but maybe they have struck a deal with Sika to be the exclusive sole retailer now?
    My local Hardware and General stocks 11FC as opposed to what Bunnings sell.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey66 View Post
    If it was released in 2020 how could the Youtube clip you linked be created in January 2014 ??
    That video had nothing to do with the release date, it was just in relation to the I-cure technology

    11FC+ was released in 2010 in other parts of the world, it appears in 2020 it was introduced into the Australian Market going by the video below from Sika AU.




    1.jpg
    2.jpg
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    The stuff I used was for a Railway job, so possibly a grey import. Or maybe even sent over here mistakenly instead of 11FC or due to supply issues ??
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