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Ladder v Scaffold for DIY Painting Project.

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  1. #1
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    Default Ladder v Scaffold for DIY Painting Project.

    New homeowner and rank amateur renovator: unsure if this belongs in Painting or Tools subforum, the topics dovetail a bit for this one.

    I am going to paint the roof and brick & weatherboard exterior of my 1940s built house. The situation is complicated by narrow alleyways, asbestos soffits, multiple layers of lead paint and 10-11 degree incline footpaths.

    I want to reality test some of my solutions



    Exterior Walls




    I plan to follow this booklet for doing exteriors: https://www.environment.gov.au/prote...ting-your-home

    General overview is something like this



    Budget:




    Using this plastic and scraper / razor cutter thing to remove and contain the flaking lead paint around much of the house (see 6)




    After wetsanding and washing down I'm planning on universally applying one of the dulux oil based all purpose primers + two coats of dulux weathershield.


    What I am having trouble with is deciding whether I need scaffolding or only extension ladders to complete the job.


    Scaffolding

    Miniskaff can put together a 700x980mm 1.8 - 3.xm high platform for approximately $2,600 delivered.


    Like this but narrower:




    The problem with this is:


    1. It might be impractical to move or too time consuming to erect and disassemble. This might cause problems with fresh coats of paint drying causing overlap on the higher weatherboards.

    2. The support struts obviously wouldn't fit up the narrow path up the sides of the house so I would have to find some way of supporting it or tieing it off.


    Extension Ladders

    I am considering as an alternative getting a couple of extension ladders with levelling attachments built in to do the job like this:

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/bailey-3...adder_p0860954


    https://www.bunnings.com.au/indalex-...l-arc_p0860709



    https://www.bunnings.com.au/indalex-...l-arc_p0860708



    There are some problems with this:


    1. The highest side is about 5m, would a 4.3 meter ladder be enough for me to reach all the way up under the soffits on the highest side? Obviously a 3.x meter high scaffold platform would be fine but it's hard to judge how much reach you can actually get safely on a ladder.


    If not I would need two of these ladders, as the next one up when at its smallest size would be too tall to fit up the short end of the narrow alley way (see photos 2 & 3) the 3.2 meter one would poke through the eaves (hopefully the hole already there will be repaired by the time I am painting).




    2. The narrow walkway is about 700-800mm, which according to the ladder manuals would be far enough to get safely up to ~3 meters. Would an extension ladder be able to be used safely in the narrow alley to reach 5m up with a spotter or tie off?


    I see that there are these hooks around most of the perimeter of the house - is that what these are intended to be used for? See photo 11.



    I suspect it would be much quicker than scaffolding, and with 2x ladders if the smaller one wasn't enough would only cost $900 or so and would be much easier to sell afterwards.


    Can anyone with experience weigh in on the practicality of such plans and whether or not there are better options available for a situation like this?

    Is there any special paint required for the brickwork or will anything do?

    There were moisture problems in the basement which have since been corrected (I think) which has made the paint down there look like this: 9 & 10



    I'm not sure if this is related to the moisture that was getting in or is a result of both the paint and the moisture. I'm reluctant to wash it and paint over it for fear of making it worse over time or having the same problem re-occur.

    Roof


    I'm a little bit anxious about safely and competently completing the roof given the steep angle and height at the front. Are there any good tutorials available for roof painting?

    The only guides I can find online suggest things like pressure washing the roof then painting with a broom which seems like it would produce an undesirable effect. The paint on the roof is completely flaked away across the board.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tuziixh.jpg   b4v2jwy.jpg   nsdxhl3.jpg   kitzgvo.jpg   zjraj9t.jpg  

    gnzjo29.jpg   lkwsx60.jpg   1bphq3l.jpg   bhdgthu.jpg   gh8zvfc.jpg  

    Last edited by phild01; 11th Oct 2020 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Imgur link removed

  2. #2
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    I admire your enthusiasm mate, but all considered, I believe that you are baiting far more than you can chew.
    Consider doing the brick wall yourself and get professionals to do the rest, especially roof and eves.
    With no experience and on your own, that is an impossible job.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

  3. #3
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    You are biting off a lot of work unless you have done previous work like it.
    For the weatherboards your approach is right, scrape back prime with oil and then water based top coat, the scaffold and extension ladders are useless for this type of work, you want a plank and trestles or a work platform and at that height probably safety rails.
    The brickwork as long as the moisture issue is resolved then use water based prep coat, dont paint if the moisture issue is not resolved.

    For the roof, yes pressure wash first, for problem areas using an outdoor cleaner such as 30 seconds first
    https://30seconds.com.au/product/
    Prep any rusted areas and paint with an airless sprayer
    https://www.bunnings.com.au/wagner-c...rayer_p1662823
    You can also get no name brands on fleabay, I have had no problems with my no-name cleaning them is the key.
    For a steep roof look at a roof harness.

    The airless spray will also do the weatherboards and brick.

    Its a lot of equipment if you are only going to do it once, and did I mention it is a lot of work ? it will feel like 10 times the work half way through but the second half is easy.

  4. #4
    2K Club Member toooldforthis's Avatar
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    big job.

    one the one hand it makes sense to do all of the same thing on all sides at once, eg all the prep, then all the undercoat.
    on the other hand it make more sense to me to do one side at a time - set up your work platforms then go to whoa one side. this way you need less gear and you can leave it there and get stuck in as the energy & motivation arrives.

    but do the roof first - work your jobs from top to bottom is my motto.

    the narrow side is the most challenging imho.
    scaffold, of whatever description (ladders, trestles, planks etc) can get in the way of getting to the bits you want to work on.
    and it is narrow eh?

    this is not advice … but … I have been known to do some left field scaffolding (not OH&S approved, tho a mate who worked in the area took photos of some of my set ups - think it was for how not do it tho).
    I have been known to use the neighbours fence as a support, and their roof too (I did ask).
    eg 2 ladders leaning against the house. a plank from each ladder resting on the fence/roof, then another plank straddling those 2 planks. extrapolate to your hearts content.

    scaffold_-005.jpg

    backyard_apr_06_a-001.jpg

    more recently I have been using kwikstage (bought some 2nd hand)
    this is great for slopes
    scaffold-1.jpg

    photo-0012.jpg

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    With no experience and on your own, that is an impossible job.
    I agree, at the very least I would need 1-2 extra people to spot the ladder/s to climb up the side of the house with the narrow walkway.



    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    the scaffold and extension ladders are useless for this type of work, you want a plank and trestles or a work platform and at that height probably safety rails.
    Hey thanks heaps for the help.

    With a 1.8m mobile scaffold / plank and trestle set up I could reach this far by hand. It might be better to get one of those plus a ladder to finish the top of the front 1/3rd of the house.

    xhexc29.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    The brickwork as long as the moisture issue is resolved then use water based prep coat, don't paint if the moisture issue is not resolved.
    I was planning on using the same primer for all of the surface, is it wise to only use water based prep coat over oil?


    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    The airless spray will also do the weatherboards and brick.

    Its a lot of equipment if you are only going to do it once, and did I mention it is a lot of work ? it will feel like 10 times the work half way through but the second half is easy.
    I might have a look into these, thanks. Are the air powered guns suitable for this kind of application?

    What is the consensus I get about extension ladders being useless for this application?

    The paint on the top half of the house is still in quite strong condition and would need much less work than the bottom half which needs heaps of scraping.

    Is there anything preventing prepping the top bits on an extension ladder and then using a spray gun with a strategy like this?:

    https://youtu.be/oPzcTRyDGkc

    https://youtu.be/nT5o8VVzVqs

    Quote Originally Posted by toooldforthis View Post



    I love this, you may be the first person to make the impossible square in real life:

    optical-illusion-square.jpg

  6. #6
    Seasoned DIY droog's Avatar
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    The normal rule is do not use water based over oil, that is top coat, under coats are somewhat different.
    You use the oil based undercoat on timber as it gets into the surface and is not just film forming, but on brick it cannot get into the surface so normally use a water based undercoat. With either finish with water based top coat.

    Air spray gun is useless.

    Painting a house from an extension ladder is very hard work, set up a platform so you can reach more than half a metre at a time, going up and down a ladder is very tiring.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all the help, here's an update for those interested:


    I found because of the sun it wasn't practical to split the job up into sides of house.

    The most useful tools for the job:


    • 6m aluminum plank and ladder jacks, which I put up to about 1.8m height which gave me access to the whole house.
    • Level-arc ladders worked really well across all terrain (11* cement slope, stairs, dirt etc.) once you got the knack of adjusting them.
    • Unipro tungsten carbide scraper was a lifesaver.
    • Wood hardener + marine grade bog in any damaged or cracked timber.
    • Expensive monarch brushes - I think expensive brushes are worth it, particularly if using oil based paint.


    All brick and weatherboard scraped/brushed/sanded by hand.

    All timber done with dulux 3-1 oil based primer + weathershield top coat (matt beige royal)

    All brick done with dulux 3-1 water based primer + weathershield top coat (High gloss vivid white inside basement.)
    Last edited by phild01; 2nd May 2021 at 05:19 PM. Reason: pic link

  8. #8
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Hi Ryan, thanks for the update. Can you use this site's image uploader for pics.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Hi Ryan, thanks for the update. Can you use this site's image uploader for pics.
    For what purpose?

    bdtuxpi.jpgrmguwgm.jpgl6jeduv.jpgyjn3okz.jpgswcghhu.jpggjthkly.jpgdhcuvjr.jpghzixxzn.jpg

  10. #10
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    ...hey, they look alright (levelarc) but trying to work out the contraption you used to hand the plank?
    Also trying to figure out why you had t set these up with the ladder upside down??...if I'm seeing this correctly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart1080 View Post
    ...hey, they look alright (levelarc) but trying to work out the contraption you used to hand the plank?
    Also trying to figure out why you had t set these up with the ladder upside down??...if I'm seeing this correctly.
    Hi Bart, It's called a ladder jack. Picked it up off ebay.

    No they aren't upside down/back to front. This model of ladder is reversed so there is no 'hidden step' between the two extensions.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanH View Post
    Hi Bart, It's called a ladder jack. Picked it up off ebay.
    Ahh, now I see (google search). These look pretty cool to use.

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