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Melamine/Foam/Plaster Ceiling Board

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  1. #1
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    Default Melamine/Foam/Plaster Ceiling Board

    Just doing my second lot of ceiling replacements (in different houses) in the last year and I never want to touch normal ceiling board again as it is one step from cornflake boxes.

    Ideally I am looking for a sandwich ceiling board that provides acoustic and thermal insulation and won't sag as easily over the years and has:

    - 2mm (or thereabouts) of white melamine on the top so that the floor of the roof-ceiling cavity is dust-proof and washable
    - 50 - 75mm (or thereabouts) of dense foam for both thermal and acoustic insulation
    - plasterboard on the bottom for the ceiling or something more durable ideally that can still have its joints between boards sealed

    Any suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    Just doing my second lot of ceiling replacements (in different houses) in the last year and I never want to touch normal ceiling board again as it is one step from cornflake boxes.

    Ideally I am looking for a sandwich ceiling board that provides acoustic and thermal insulation and won't sag as easily over the years and has:

    - 2mm (or thereabouts) of white melamine on the top so that the floor of the roof-ceiling cavity is dust-proof and washable
    - 50 - 75mm (or thereabouts) of dense foam for both thermal and acoustic insulation
    - plasterboard on the bottom for the ceiling or something more durable ideally that can still have its joints between boards sealed

    Any suggestions?
    Yes you will need to make it up yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Yes you will need to make it up yourself.
    I hope not, but as this is for a future project and the 3 materials are readily available I may do some glue tests and make it myself if I have to

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    Why don't you just use melamine board on top of the joists and plasterboard underneath and insulation in between. If you sandwich all this from under the joists then I think you are attempting more trouble than it is worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    I hope not, but as this is for a future project and the 3 materials are readily available I may do some glue tests and make it myself if I have to
    You will not find any product that meets your specification. Personally I cant see why you would want to do this as what you are after can be achieved in a far more conventional manner.

    Insulation between joist as normal.
    If you are concerned about rigidity then use 13 or 16mm firestop although the ceiling board spans 600mm perfectly well.

    Or if you really want the shiny upper layer the line the ceiling first with 3mm MDF then use a 28mm furring channel with a 237 clip.
    Fill between furring channels with a 25mm foam panel. Then the plasterboard.

    Making up panels much harder. Just cutting them would be a bitch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Why don't you just use melamine board on top of the joists and plasterboard underneath and insulation in between. If you sandwich all this from under the joists then I think you are attempting more trouble than it is worth.
    Cutting melamine between trusses and services/wiring etc?? big job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Dyson View Post
    Cutting melamine between trusses and services/wiring etc?? big job.
    Was not assuming trusses and yes, would be a nonsense to place pieces of melamine in between. To be honest, I just don't get why the need for the melamine surface unless the intended application has not been disclosed properly. I also don't understand why the plasterboard is considered little better than cardboard. If ceiling sheets are done to spec, they don't sag. I would not under-rate plasterboard like this, it is a very good product.

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    Melamine/polystyrene/plasterboard sandwich to screw straight to the bottom of the wooden roof trusses - nothing is to be between the trusses - insodoing reducing the ceiling height.

    Insulation batts that move around between the joists leaves multiple thermal bridges - I want a continuous foam layer over the ceiling (and under the roof trusses) sealed at the wall/ceiling edges with foam pumped behind the cornices.

    I have had to deal with two roof cavities of late with "insulation" batts which compress, degrade and move around. They simply don't do the job to the standard I want. I want the job done properly - not easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    Melamine/polystyrene/plasterboard sandwich to screw straight to the bottom of the wooden roof trusses - nothing is to be between the trusses - insodoing reducing the ceiling height.

    Insulation batts that move around between the joists leaves multiple thermal bridges - I want a continuous foam layer over the ceiling (and under the roof trusses) sealed at the wall/ceiling edges with foam pumped behind the cornices.

    I have had to deal with two roof cavities of late with "insulation" batts which compress, degrade and move around. They simply don't do the job to the standard I want. I want the job done properly - not easily.
    Insulation batts (glass) in my experience do not compress, degrade or move about (unless you have strong draughts of wind in the roof space). I have both pink and gold batts and are as fluffy as the day when installed over 25 years ago. I have also tried some foil bonded foam insulation and that did totally disintegrate. The glass batts when installed properly do not leave thermal bridges (unless you feel the timber joist is a major issue, I don't think it is) and so I am not sure what type of batts you are referring to!
    Could you be over-thinking your need or is this an arctic type room.

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    I am definitely over-thinking it as I do not believe that insulation batts are up to the standard I want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    I am definitely over-thinking it as I do not believe that insulation batts are up to the standard I want.
    With your previous experience, maybe you have overlooked the shortfalls of the rest of the structure. You need fresh air to some degree so I would not overlook that aspect. If your requirement is in Perth then over-thinking it may not achieve great returns for your money. Windows and doors would need the greatest attention and investment.

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    I'll also be installing German double-glazing and a properly sealed German entrance door.

    We are stuck with quasi-monopolist building material suppliers in WA and the lack of competition means you have to look further afield to improve things.

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    The obvious solution to your sagging ceiling would be to batten the joists before you put up the wallboard. You could shim them and make the ceiling alot smoother flatter at the same time. It greatly reduces the span and provides more support for the board.

    The thermal bridging , which is a problem if you happen to check it(put your hand on the ceiling in the middle of a 40 degree day and you can find the joists because they are warm), can easily be conquered by laying a first layer of batts between the joists and then a second across the top of the joists.

    Like the others, I don't get clean melamine type surface. Its a roof cavity. The only thing you will find up their is dust, spiders and if you are lucky mouse droppings.

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    No batts or normal ceiling board thank-you as these do not meet my requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    No batts or normal ceiling board thank-you as these do not meet my requirements.
    Let us know what you end up with.

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    Its for a future (not immediate) renovation - I'll do some research on German web-sites (I used to live there and they are very far ahead of us in terms of building standards) and see what my idea solution will be, but if need be I'll stick foam sheet and melamine to ceiling board and make it myself.

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    Why not contact Versiclad and maybe they can help you understand some of the design challenges of what you want. I have used their panels but can't really imagine what they have satisfying a first class ceiling finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Why not contact Versiclad and maybe they can help you understand some of the design challenges of what you want. I have used their panels but can't really imagine what they have satisfying a first class ceiling finish.
    Many thanks - I have contacted them for info on their "Ceilink" (with a choice of 2 prefinished white steel ceiling faces, a polystyrene insulated core with a top layer of foil sarking) looks like a very real option (if they have a WA distributor) - just trying to find out whether the joints in the steel ceiling finish show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    Many thanks - I have contacted them for info on their "Ceilink" (with a choice of 2 prefinished white steel ceiling faces, a polystyrene insulated core with a top layer of foil sarking) looks like a very real option (if they have a WA distributor) - just trying to find out whether the joints in the steel ceiling finish show.
    Yes they are interlocking panels so the joints will show, more a low end appearance grade for inside use.
    The ideal design solution would be to provide a seamless surface over a large area, sheet steel won't do this.

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    You may want to consider insulating the roof rather than the ceiling. Keep the heat out of the cavity in the first place. The problem is once the roof cavity gets hot it takes a long time to cool down. Make the roof cavity into an attic. You could also use it as storage space. Perhaps foam sheets before the roofing is installed?

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    Unfortunately the roof space is not high enough for an attic.

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    Cool Room Panels may also be an option (but would require cladding on ceiling side) - on both eBay and Gumtree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjthompson View Post
    Cool Room Panels may also be an option (but would require cladding on ceiling side) - on both eBay and Gumtree.
    Even if you surface it with plasterboard, how would you support it!

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    All way to hard for the perceived benefit IMO.
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    Supported by screws (through the foam) into the jarrah roof trusses - worth the effort if you want the job done properly instead of normal work standards.

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    Jarrah roof trusses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHammer View Post
    Jarrah roof trusses?
    It's a 50 year old house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHammer View Post
    Jarrah roof trusses?

    What I think The Hammer is saying that it would be really unusual to have a residential building of that age with trusses, in particular Jarrah ones...
    Unless it was added on to at some stage, it would almost certainly originally have had stick built jarrah, (sometimes with Karri too) roof framing.

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    Whatever the roof is supported by - there are wooden horizontal members that the current ceiling board is strapped to with fibre-glass stirrups and to which any new ceiling board could be screwed.

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    How about a SIP (structural insulating panel) like the ones I am using for my lounge ceiling/roof structure.
    A polystyrene core sandwiched between two magnesium oxide board.
    This will give you a smooth hard surface on both sides and the insulation (without bridging) of the polystyrene.
    It will form a very rigid panel that wont sag between joists.

    Just a thought.
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    Belair_Boy can you recommend a product name that I can google?

    Thanks!

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    Belair_Boy can you recommend a product name that I can google?
    I used the local company Magtech building systems who manufacture SIP's
    Offering solutions for your project requirements - Services

    or another link that should get you on the right track
    MagRoc


    Hope this helps.
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    Thanks - also found these in Perth: SIPS Industries, Perth - Structural Insulated Panels

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