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Question RE floor heights

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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Question RE floor heights

    Hello everybody, first time long time etc...

    I was hoping for some community help.. I have a bathroom and adjacent toilet I have gutted and am starting from scratch.

    Property is on stumps and I am pulling up all the timber flooring in both rooms (most of is has some damage etc...)

    I was wanting a tile shower base that is level with the rest of the bathroom (obviously with the required fall in it)

    My issue was how much, if any, do I need to trim my joists to acheive a tiled floor that is level at the entry with the hallway that leads into it?

    Shower will have a semi frameless screen around it.

    Plan was once I remove the current timber, I have 19mm gap from joist to hallway timber

    Was going to take another 40mm off, leaving 59mm to play with..

    19 for Scyon, then some screeding, then glue then 10mm tiles... Was told its better to remove more of the joist and the tiler can just screed the levels up if need be?

    Does the whole bathroom need to be screeded or just the shower?

    I am really lost here...

  2. #2
    Community Moderator phild01's Avatar
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    Hi todiy, please change your profile location to be more specific, state level as a minimum. It helps for advice (regs, services, products etc).



  3. #3
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    I stumbled on this last week. I think it gives great overview of what you're facing...I believe the key here is to remove the old joists and start fresh..

    Have a look...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5eKvycY_k
    And.....your point is.....what exactly?

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    Will do! Sorry

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David.Elliott View Post
    I stumbled on this last week. I think it gives great overview of what you're facing...I believe the key here is to remove the old joists and start fresh..

    Have a look...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5eKvycY_k
    Thanks! They used a shower base here which is not what I'm looking to do. Though, it might just be easier!

  6. #6
    Seasoned DIY droog's Avatar
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    From the wat you describe it you are intending to cut the existing joists down ? Built on stumps the joists are most likely 90-100 mm, cutting 40 mm off will not leave enough material.

    The joists need to be lowered, not cut down.
    For a ground floor residential bathroom it is not mandatory to have the entire floor graded, it can remain flat with slope only in the shower. One option is to use a pre formed tile tray for the shower recess.
    Of course there is no reason you cannot grade the entire floor inside and out, and it can be done without screed if you are replacing the joists.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    From the wat you describe it you are intending to cut the existing joists down ? Built on stumps the joists are most likely 90-100 mm, cutting 40 mm off will not leave enough material.

    The joists need to be lowered, not cut down.
    For a ground floor residential bathroom it is not mandatory to have the entire floor graded, it can remain flat with slope only in the shower. One option is to use a pre formed tile tray for the shower recess.
    Of course there is no reason you cannot grade the entire floor inside and out, and it can be done without screed if you are replacing the joists.
    Thank you. I was wanting to avoid a tike tray as I have heard they tend to move a lot and can cause issues.

    I've gone around in circles with this for weeks. I have a totally gutted bathroom and get a new opinion almost daily on what to do to achieve my desired look. Lol, I'm losing hair!

    All I'm trying to have is the hallway timber flooring meet the tiles in the bathroom flush, and have an entirely tiled bathroom floor which includes the shower. How do I achieve this?

  8. #8
    Seasoned DIY droog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by todiyornottodiy View Post
    Thank you. I was wanting to avoid a tike tray as I have heard they tend to move a lot and can cause issues.

    I've gone around in circles with this for weeks. I have a totally gutted bathroom and get a new opinion almost daily on what to do to achieve my desired look. Lol, I'm losing hair!

    All I'm trying to have is the hallway timber flooring meet the tiles in the bathroom flush, and have an entirely tiled bathroom floor which includes the shower. How do I achieve this?
    Have not heard the story about tile trays, ours is no issues and I am sure you will find a lot of others that are happy with them.
    I used the Universal shower base, would use again. The floor in the rest of the bathroom is flat to get that result the joists only need to be around 10-12mm lower.
    Assuming you use a 19mm flooring like scyon then all you need to account for is the thickness of waterproofing, adhesive and the tiles. Depending on the configuration of the entrance this can sometimes be accounted for by ramping the boards towards the door meaning nothing has to be done to the bathroom joists.

    If you are still sure that tile trays will not work for you then slope the joists and have your scyon sheet sloping, either just in the shower or the entire room.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Have not heard the story about tile trays, ours is no issues and I am sure you will find a lot of others that are happy with them.
    I used the Universal shower base, would use again. The floor in the rest of the bathroom is flat to get that result the joists only need to be around 10-12mm lower.
    Assuming you use a 19mm flooring like scyon then all you need to account for is the thickness of waterproofing, adhesive and the tiles. Depending on the configuration of the entrance this can sometimes be accounted for by ramping the boards towards the door meaning nothing has to be done to the bathroom joists.

    If you are still sure that tile trays will not work for you then slope the joists and have your scyon sheet sloping, either just in the shower or the entire room.
    I have no idea why I was told to have the joists lowered 40mm... This is why I've been getting so confused!

    It might just be easier to run with a tile over tray as it sorts the fall issue. After all, it's the same person who said they're bad who said do the joists 40to50mm lower...!

    That'll mean I can lower the joists say 15mm everywhere but the shower area, and just lower that area the extra bit to compensate for the tray depth which is like 26mm I think

    Can you tile straight over Scyon? Does there need to be screening?
    . You're being very helpful, thank you so much

  10. #10
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    Screed is one option to get slope on the floor, the reason for the 40mm you have been quoted is that normal sand cement screed cannot be used too thin as it will just crumble.
    I think the minimum is 25mm but that is at the lowest point, the drain. So to get slope over the floor you soon reach 40 plus mm.

    There are situations where the rest of the bathroom must include a floor drain (separate from the shower drain) and slope to it, but rules in Victoria for ground floor residential bathrooms does not require it, you must fit a water stop angle at the doorway.

    Edit
    Scyon does not have to have screed, you can waterproof and tile straight over.
    Tile tray thickness depends on the particular unit, 26mm is common due to standard timber floor and tile underlay, 26mm. Don’t forget to look at sloping the Scyon for the shower floor.

  11. #11
    3K Club Member johnc's Avatar
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    You can tile to Scyon, no screed required.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Screed is one option to get slope on the floor, the reason for the 40mm you have been quoted is that normal sand cement screed cannot be used too thin as it will just crumble.
    I think the minimum is 25mm but that is at the lowest point, the drain. So to get slope over the floor you soon reach 40 plus mm.

    There are situations where the rest of the bathroom must include a floor drain (separate from the shower drain) and slope to it, but rules in Victoria for ground floor residential bathrooms does not require it, you must fit a water stop angle at the doorway.

    Edit
    Scyon does not have to have screed, you can waterproof and tile straight over.
    Tile tray thickness depends on the particular unit, 26mm is common due to standard timber floor and tile underlay, 26mm. Don’t forget to look at sloping the Scyon for the shower floor.
    Ah, I see where the 40 came from now! Makes a bit more sense. I guess I was thinking there was just one simple way to do this but there is a heap of options which confused me as everybody has varying opinions

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    You can tile to Scyon, no screed required.
    Thanks John

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Screed is one option to get slope on the floor, the reason for the 40mm you have been quoted is that normal sand cement screed cannot be used too thin as it will just crumble.
    I think the minimum is 25mm but that is at the lowest point, the drain. So to get slope over the floor you soon reach 40 plus mm.

    There are situations where the rest of the bathroom must include a floor drain (separate from the shower drain) and slope to it, but rules in Victoria for ground floor residential bathrooms does not require it, you must fit a water stop angle at the doorway.

    Edit
    Scyon does not have to have screed, you can waterproof and tile straight over.
    Tile tray thickness depends on the particular unit, 26mm is common due to standard timber floor and tile underlay, 26mm. Don’t forget to look at sloping the Scyon for the shower floor.
    But if the tile tray has a fall built into it, why would the Scyon need to be sloped?
    And the tray goes directly into the joists?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by todiyornottodiy View Post
    But if the tile tray has a fall built into it, why would the Scyon need to be sloped?
    And the tray goes directly into the joists?
    You slope the Scyon instead of using a tile tray.
    Different tile trays need different support, some go straight onto joists / trimmers but some require a floor sheeting underneath. Check the install instructions for the ones you look at if going that way.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    You slope the Scyon instead of using a tile tray.
    Different tile trays need different support, some go straight onto joists / trimmers but some require a floor sheeting underneath. Check the install instructions for the ones you look at if going that way.
    Thanks so much for all your advice, really helpful!

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